Toy gun vs. real gun...

[cigsandcoffee]

This is the Airsoft gun used by Tamir Rice, vs. a real .45 pistol.



How is this even legal to sell to kids? It's insane.

[onehandle]

1. Used to be normal before gun culture ruined it for us all.

Thanks to their expensive fetish, we all have to think twice about a lot of things.

[flamin lib]

2. If we absolutely must have toy guns they need to look like

this:
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/07/iowa-city-council-considers-ban-on-open-carry-of-toy-guns/&h=1067&w=1600&tbnid=0bajKFwlb0dA_M:&docid=n0LT6uymLTuMNM&ei=wr6CVrnMMIGcjQPsxpr4DA&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwi5tZ-ayIHKAhUBTmMKHWyjBs8QMwhuKDIwMg

[Buzz Clik]

5. Or this

[Lizzie Poppet]

3. Airsoft guns were never intended for kids.

They were intended as training aids and, later, as recreational items for adults (used like paintball guns, only less messy). They were never intended as a kid's toy. Almost all are sold with orange tips, but people take them off or paint them.

[ShrimpPoboy]

4. It's supposed to have an orange barrel tip,

But that was reportedly removed before Rice was murdered.

IMO, they should be completely orange or some other bright color. The tip is too easy to remove or paint over.

[cigsandcoffee]

9. I agree - all orange or yellow would be common sense. n/t

[jwirr]

13. Even that probably will not work. Without a law the toy

manufacturer could make his orange or yellow.

[truebrit71]

6. Ohio is open carry, so even if it WAS a real gun, what law was being broken...

...that warranted an immediate execution?

Fuck the police.

[Bettie]

7. This is my question as well

people are allowed to carry real guns around in that state, so why was this child such a terrible threat? Oh, wait...I know.

[ileus]

8. with OC and a pistol, one needs to know; was it holstered?

If not then it would have been illegal.

[gratuitous]

10. Yeah, 12 year olds should know a lot better

Don't know why we aren't teaching grade school kids the finer points of open carry law, instead of wasting all that time on other stuff.

[HughBeaumont]

16. Y'all are just fishing for an excuse to blame Tamir Rice for his execution, aren't you?

[Eleanors38]

25. No, pointing out the law. One good can come from this discussion:

The controller/banner/confiscator, so incensed about having to stoop to the level of defining gun-terms, get to come face-to-face with the dilemma.

Personally, these officers should have been prosecuted for reckless endangerment at a minimum -- for not determining the difference between real and toy. Here on DU, one can Proudly display an appalling ignorance regarding guns and not suffer any consequence.

[Logical]

27. Including the gun nuts. Nt

[Eleanors38]

32. Take it up with the "nuts."

[HughBeaumont]

29. Or unintentionally pointing out that some laws apply to certain people and not to others.

You know, because in THIS open carry state, this white lady actually DID unholster and point her pellet gun at police, daring them to shoot her.

She was arrested without incident. Alive. You know, because that's what happens to white people for some reason.

But no, because Tamir Rice was black, fucking cross burners (mostly white and male) across the net are inventing things he did prior to his murder, blaming him for his death, blaming him for being big for his age, calling him "one less hoodrat", blaming him for not treating his toy gun like a flute or something in a park that had three fucking people in it, and praising those drive-by shooters with badges that got away with murder.

[Eleanors38]

30. The law was pointed out. Nothing more. I realize some have problems with that...

But it doesn't hurt anyone to at least have it on the table, if for no other reason than to see if there is a problem with the legislation.

The incident you link, was she white or was she a woman? Does one status overlap or enhance the other? Since much of the debate in these threads has to do with one's sex and race status, it might be a valuable point of departure to examine the role of sex-status regarding suspect mistreatment, conviction rates, and sentencing.

[Waldorf]

41. I guess this white guy didn't get the memo that he couldn't get shot by police.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/suffolk-police-investigate-officer-involved-shooting-35987789

A man fatally shot by an officer in Virginia was armed with a BB gun that looked like a handgun, police said Tuesday.

A Suffolk police officer encountered Corey Jason Achstein, 28, on Monday evening after responding to reports of a white man chasing three juveniles and threatening them with a gun, police said.

[ileus]

43. No way pip have you watched the video?

My comment was about open carry...

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

36. "Open carry" means it's visible, but holstered.

Waving it around is called "brandishing" and has consequences.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

47. Teens aren't allowed to open carry

doesn't justify shooting the kid within a moment of arriving, however.

[aikoaiko]

11. I think the police escalated that confrontation by stopping the car mere feet away from Tamir

The dispatcher told them there was a report of a kid waving a gun around at the park.

By rolling in quickly to just a few feet away they escalated the situation into a "plausible" self-defense shooting because if it had been real Tamir could have blown away at least one of them.

This is my biggest gripe about many police shootings is that the police escalate the situations to the point where there is some degree of reason in shooting. There needs to be a way to hold them accountable for escalation of violence.

[DashOneBravo]

37. +1

The driver created that whole situation.

He needs to pay.

[MohRokTah]

12. Ohio is an Open Carry State.

How is it that cops kill black people holding anything looking like a gun on sight, yet ignore white people carrying semi-automatic weapons?

[pintobean]

14. He was pointing it at people.

I think the open carry demonstrators are stupid assholes, but they don't point their weapons at people.

[MohRokTah]

15. No, he wasn't. Watch the video. eom

[pintobean]

18. The guy who called 911 said he was

and that's what the dispatcher told the cops.

[MohRokTah]

19. Guys say all kinds of shit to 911.

Cops must evaluate the situation they see, not that they hear from some "guy".

The kid was not waving a gun around nor was he pointing it at anybody.

The cops murdered a 12 year old kid and frankly, I find attempts to justify a cop murdering a 12 year old kid to be nothing more than attempts at justifying white supremacy.

The message sent by the prosecutor and grand jury is as clear as can be, cops in Cleveland can murder any black person at will with no consequences. They have given cops a license to murder any black person for any reason.

[pintobean]

20. I answered your question.

[MohRokTah]

21. I asked no question.

[pintobean]

22. See post #12

[XemaSab]

46. Here's the video

[lostnfound]

39. Clearly it was the kids fault. He had twelve years to get smarter, reform gun laws, ban guns...

And make friends with the police.

He wasn't some helpless kid dropped on the planet still wet behind the ears.

Not like those seasoned professional cops, they were clearly wet behind the ears and couldn't be expected to have handled it any differently.

[pintobean]

40. You have an active imagination.

[lostnfound]

48. The kid was being a kid. Kid died, shot by grownups. Grownups are supposed to protect kids.

Grownups are to blame for this, both directly and indirectly; and it's absurd to think otherwise.

[yeoman6987]

26. Open carry for adults not kids.

[MohRokTah]

33. So obviously that justifies white cops murdering black kids.

[yeoman6987]

35. Where do you get that from?

Answering questions or giving facts around here has become very risky.

[question everything]

17. In the past years we have had sobering stories on how black fathers

instruct their kids how to walk, how to drive, how to speak to police offers if stopped..

With all this, why would any parent purchase, or allow, a kid to roam the streets with something like that?

No, I don't "blame the victim," but we heard from black parents about being extra careful.

[ShrimpPoboy]

23. Tamir Rice was murdered

and there's no excusing it. It wasn't his fault or his parents'.

But you're right in the general sense. I was warned more than once about toy guns being mistaken for the real thing and I've been careful with my own kids in the same way. My oldest has an air soft pistol a lot like Tamir's (but with orange tip in tact) and he's never been allowed out of the backyard with it.

Admittedly though, both the warnings I got and the ones I give out now are aimed at preventing unnecessary trouble, like a fussy neighbor. Not death. I still have a hard time wrapping my head around this tragedy.

[Waldorf]

24. Airsoft rifles/pistols come with a bright orange tip. Somebody removed the tip. n/t

[KentuckyWoman]

28. We should make all toy guns to be fully neon pink, green, orange or any combo thereof.

And require all real guns to be either black or brown.

Require manufacturers to recall all guns that do not comply and destroy them.

Won't happen but it will fix this particular problem.

Although the thing with Tamir Rice was not about the toy gun. It was about skin color.

[Eleanors38]

31. I see your point. Then there is the can of black spray paint.

[Skittles]

45. a coworker just gave his teenaged daughter a bright pink gun for Christmas

fashion accessory, you know

[TheFrenchRazor]

34. there should not be "toy guns." and i'm pro-"gun rights." nt

[Matrosov]

38. I'm extremely conflicted on this

On one hand, why didn't the gun have an orange tip, and why was a gun like this sold to a child in the first place?

On the other hand, even if it had been a real 1911, why was law enforcement so trigger happy rather than talk to Tamir in the first place?

Tamir was the victim, but I think the blame falls on many different parties.

[Waldorf]

42. When it was sold it did have an orange tip. Somebody removed it so it would look like a real gun.

[Xithras]

44. FYI, it's NOT legal to sell Airsoft guns to kids. They aren't kids toys.

Federal law already states that Airsoft guns can only be sold to buyers over the age of 18. If you see a kid walking around with an Airsoft gun, it's because an ault bought it and provided it to them.