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Tue Dec 29, 2015, 02:10 PM

 

50,000 posts and the only mind Iíve changed is my own (reposted following lock)

(I'm reposting (with minor edits) as my original post was locked.)



But then that was the whole point when I joined DU in April of 2010 - to learn more about American politics, our parties and our candidates, our economic and social justice problems and the pathways to fix them.

Iíve been on the left side of the political spectrum since the early 1970ís when I was serving in southeast Asia in the Air Force, and began seeing through the daily ration of bullshit. In the years that followed, work and family responsibilities didnít leave much time for politics, so despite my interest and political bent I had only a superficial knowledge of what was happening. Most of what I knew I learned by reading my stateís largest newspapers. On many issues I had been led astray and was ill-informed.

Then I retired in early 2008 and the free time allowed me to become much more active in politics. I campaigned for Barack Obama and was thrilled when he won. The day of his inauguration I felt more hope for my country than I ever had. Then came a series of disappointments Ė some of his cabinet picks and his failure to advocate for single-payer healthcare - or even a public option - really stuck in my craw.

(One cabinet pick I did like was Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State. I was a big fan of hers due to her advocacy for universal healthcare. I felt she would do a great job as SOS. I could have easily supported her for President had she prevailed over Obama in the 2008 primaries.)

Then in 2010 I found DU (while searching for Ducks Unlimited of all things). I was hooked on the first day and joined immediately. Wow - a progressive community discussing the issues without the lies and disruptions that right-wingers inflicted on the other sites on which I had been posting. I fell in love with DU and still love DU.

Thereís no better site for vetting the information that the media spoon-feeds us every day. News stories are exposed as propaganda and alternative points of view are posted without the filters imposed by the corporate media. I learned that many of the ďtruthsĒ I had long held were, in fact, bullshit.

Right now DU is fractured as supporters of the respective primary camps duke it out. This is a healthy thing and Iím glad itís happening. Neither of our candidates is perfect and itís great that we can learn about the positives and negatives of both so that we can make the most informed choices when we cast our votes. I donít expect to sway anyone but I do appreciate the opportunity to post about both the positives and negatives of each of our candidates.

My own mind was changed when I learned that the Kochs and their friends founded the Democratic Leadership Council, when I learned how the leadership of the party Iíd long supported had been infiltrated by moneyed interests and had abandoned working people.

So my mind has been changed, and perhaps Iíve provided a bit of ammunition for others who are like-minded. Thatís whatís so great about DU.

Let the truth be your guide, and thereís no better place for determining what is true and what is not than Democratic Underground. Long may we post.

Be back later; Iíve (still) got a whole lot of snow to move.

41 replies, 3067 views

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Arrow 41 replies Author Time Post
Reply 50,000 posts and the only mind Iíve changed is my own (reposted following lock) (Original post)
Scuba Dec 2015 OP
Faux pas Dec 2015 #1
n2doc Dec 2015 #2
pacalo Dec 2015 #7
abakan Dec 2015 #3
Scuba Dec 2015 #4
madokie Dec 2015 #18
Renew Deal Dec 2015 #5
bobthedrummer Dec 2015 #6
hunter Dec 2015 #8
thesquanderer Dec 2015 #11
TBF Dec 2015 #9
bigwillq Dec 2015 #10
WillyT Dec 2015 #12
ConservativeDemocrat Dec 2015 #13
Rex Dec 2015 #14
Joe Shlabotnik Dec 2015 #17
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #20
Scuba Dec 2015 #22
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #23
ConservativeDemocrat Dec 2015 #29
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #31
ConservativeDemocrat Dec 2015 #34
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #35
ConservativeDemocrat Dec 2015 #40
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #41
Scuba Dec 2015 #24
Joe Shlabotnik Dec 2015 #15
hfojvt Dec 2015 #16
Scuba Dec 2015 #25
Paka Dec 2015 #19
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #21
libodem Dec 2015 #28
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #32
LineLineLineLineNew Reply .
libodem Dec 2015 #37
leveymg Dec 2015 #26
LineReply .
libodem Dec 2015 #27
Kalidurga Dec 2015 #30
emulatorloo Dec 2015 #33
Warren DeMontague Dec 2015 #36
Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2015 #38
liberal_at_heart Dec 2015 #39

Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 02:18 PM

1. Well said (again) Scuba!

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 02:28 PM

2. They can lock but they can't stop the Scuba!

I get so tired of the games about what is supposed to go where.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 03:07 PM

7. Persnickety alerting in this case, imho.

Scuba's OP about his lifelong political perspective was doing no harm in the GD forum, where political discussion is certainly allowed. It is not strictly about the primaries.

The alert was persnickety nonsense where I suspect the alert itself was more about the primaries than was the content of Scuba's OP.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 02:29 PM

3. I liked Hillary until people like you...

Introduced me to Bernie. Thank you, Scuba

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Response to abakan (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 02:30 PM

4. I'd never heard of Bernie before I joined DU.

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 05:25 PM

18. Same here

but now that I have there is no going back

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 02:34 PM

5. Congrats!!!

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 02:42 PM

6. K&R Scuba and after you've done the snow removal take a gander at this educational active thread

 

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 04:42 PM

8. That was a bad lock.

Glad to kick this one.

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Response to hunter (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 04:53 PM

11. This is posted again in the same place...

...which means it will probably get locked as off-topic again. Probably because it references Hillary/Bernie. It would probably be better off in GD-Primaries.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 04:48 PM

9. I have read so many off-topic posts in GD over the years -

interesting that this particular one would get locked. Next time make sure you put a cat in the photo and maybe it will get through. aka: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027481194

It's pretty sad that it has come to this. Smh.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 04:50 PM

10. Congrats on 50,000 posts!

 



(again)

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 04:56 PM

12. Huge K & R !!!

 






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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 05:16 PM

13. Maybe you should actually canvass

Knock doors, man phone banks, table at county fairs... you know - all the things that actually help.

And it will help you as well, believe me. Once you listen to the actual American public, a lot of these beliefs like "Ted Cruz supporters only need to hear Bernie once, and they'll fall in love with him"... might be something you'll reconsider.

And your pretending to yourself that Barack Obama is a conservative democrat (though I welcome the comparison) may also be a belief that is shaken free, as your ideology breaks upon the unforgiving rocks of absolute fact.

Take care, Scuba, you crazy bastard. Get out in the world a bit. And no, the DU isn't the world. Not even the political world.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

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Response to ConservativeDemocrat (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 05:18 PM

14. You really should take your own advice and get out in the world.

 

A well rounded education would do you some good.

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Response to ConservativeDemocrat (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 05:24 PM

17. Seriously?!

you really know how to congratulate someone. I'd hate to hear one of your wedding toasts.

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Response to ConservativeDemocrat (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 05:33 PM

20. Funny I cover news and you know what? Obama is a self admited centrist

 

Here you go, the actual quote:

"The truth of the matter is that my policies are so mainstream that if I had set the same policies that I had back in the 1980s, I would be considered a moderate Republican," he told Noticias Univision 23 in a White House interview.


that means he is a conservative democrat. Many of those centrists at one time were actually republicans.

As to the rest, take your own advise. You really need to get out more.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #20)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 05:54 PM

22. ConservativeDemocrat and I have been having a dialogue following his post about how wonderful ...

 

... Obama's performance is considering he inherited two wars and an economy in collapse.

When I pointed out that Obama appears to be leaving us with three wars and an economy on the brink of collapse, he/she took umbrage.

While never addressing the number of wars issue, ConservativeDemocrat suggested that I must be unaware that the stock market had nearly doubled under Obama. I replied that an inflated market was part of the problem, and linked to a couple articles backing my position.

The replies then shifted to my lack of understanding about how the real world works and how I should follow the advice of wiser, reality-based, people like himself/herself.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #22)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 05:59 PM

23. Well all I can say is predictable

 

why I used the actual quote from POTUS. I doubt I will get an answer though.

As to the economy... I don't think it is on the brink of collapse. but it is not as good as it could be. And the stock market is wonderful (and not a sign of main street either) is one that partisans on both sides use often, when convenient.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #23)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 06:38 PM

29. You just tell us all about...

...how 60s style Republicans are in favor of letting states experiment with Marijuana, gay rights, anti-war, keeping blue laws from being enacted, being against gun rights (except anti-gun rights for blacks), and maybe I'll take Obama's tweaking of the media seriously. The ACA might not have been everything the single payer crowd wanted, but it sure the hell isn't unfettered free trade; it's regulated trade.

The only way Obama is a 60s style Republican is if you take the Republicans' circa 1960 campaign lies about supporting unions seriously. When you look carefully at what they actually did to unions even back then, you realize that their pretense was fake, and everyone back then knew it.

Scuba is mad that Obama's leadership (that he disagrees with) led us out of a national economic crisis, and so (just like petulant extremist Republicans) has convinced himself that the economy is on the brink of collapse. He's also calling us being three (unnamed) "wars", because someone killing someone somewhere on the entire planet makes it ours, despite the US having fewer casualties than in Detroit alone.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

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Response to ConservativeDemocrat (Reply #29)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 07:23 PM

31. I quoted the President of the United States

 

you can go argue with him, about himself saying that he would be called a republican in the 1980s. Let me see, take your word, or his... hmmm, that is a hard choice.

Oh that monicker about the CD... try to apply it to his statements on this matter.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #31)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:42 PM

34. Yeessss....

I explicitly AM arguing with him about that. That's what my post was about. I showed that all sorts of positions he has, were too liberal even for Democrats in the 1980s. So no, there is no possible way he would be considered a moderate Republican back then, no matter what he thinks.

Go back and reread for comprehension this time. Acknowledge it, and maybe I'll raise your grade from an F to a D-.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

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Response to ConservativeDemocrat (Reply #34)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:44 PM

35. Now we get insulting

 

a classic. Have good luck with that argument.

As I said, take YOUR WORD, or HIS? I think I know which word I will take. Free huge, in red letters, the size of the galaxy words, NOT YOURS.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #35)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 10:12 PM

40. Using the imperial we, are you now?

Okay.

You're lucky there's no such thing as an F minus.

Enjoy your irrelevance.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

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Response to ConservativeDemocrat (Reply #40)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 10:19 PM

41. And continues to be insulting

 

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Response to ConservativeDemocrat (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 06:00 PM

24. Thanks, if there's one DU'er I know I can trust to claim I took positions I've never taken it's you!

 

I'll just keep on "pretending," if that's OK with you???

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 05:20 PM

15. Congrats Scuba!



So glad you're here with us at Ducks Unlimited! You are consistently one the best.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 05:21 PM

16. 50,000 posts in a mere 5 years

I have a few less than that in more than 11 years.

I have changed a whole bunch of minds though.

There are hundreds of people here who used to think I was wrong....



and now they think I am disgusting.



So you never know. Minds can be changed.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 06:01 PM

25. It's not about quantity, it's about quality. Most of mine are "K&R" or "+1" along with a few ....

 

... of my favorite rhetorical question: If we can't afford to educate our children, to heal our sick or tend to our elderly, just what is the the defense budget is defending.



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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 05:27 PM

19. K&R

I've know all along who I would vote for, but I've enjoyed your posts along the way.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 05:35 PM

21. Oh don't worry, I have changed some views

 

some folks do believe I am a terrible person, self centered and all that. I can live with that.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #21)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 06:25 PM

28. And some of us know you are the real deal

I think some people have a hard time fathoming all your life experiences as vast and varied as they are.

I wonder if I have personally put people off because I often say "me too", when someone posts something I have done, too. I always mean it as see our similarities, we have something in common, but maybe it reads as I'm trying to steal your thunder or one up you? People can be peculiar with what offends them.

Glad you stuck it out through the badgering.

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Response to libodem (Reply #28)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 07:24 PM

32. Well, part of it is that actually

 

Thanks and happy new year. Working on our local year in review.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #32)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:59 PM

37. .

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 06:10 PM

26. Double recs for both posts. Unbelievable this post was locked. Bad lock by Spazito.

Minds that can change for the better are far healthier than those who try to shut down opinion they don't agree with.

Keep on posting (and shoveling), Mr. Scuba. That is a great view of a lot of snow.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 06:15 PM

27. .

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 06:41 PM

30. IBTL?

It is impossible to change minds without finding out where the heart is. This is why I don't engage with conservatives much, they have no heart.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:40 PM

33. Congrats!

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:46 PM

36. You got here in '10, so you haven't actually had the prior 'pleasure' of a real primary season on DU

It's ugly as all fucking get-out, but I could have told you it would be.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 09:01 PM

38. The "fractured" party started in '68 at the Democratic convention.

 

It's still going on.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 09:58 PM

39. I too have changed my own mind since 2001. I began educating myself more about

politics after 9/11 and after seeing how my autistic son was treated in our for profit public school systems. I always just assumed the Democratic Party would always reflect my views and fight in my family's best interest. I have since learned otherwise and have since gone from being a Democrat to being an Independent. Bernie had come along at a time when I was already considering voting third party. I would vote for him no matter what party affiliation he had because he is the only one truly fighting for the American people.

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