Do DUers think that suppies would reach

[malaise]

armed African Americans who have seized Federal government property
armed indigenous Americans who have seized their own land captured by the Federal government, or
armed Muslims who have seized Federal government property.

The only supplies that would reach those three groups would be body bags.

[leftofcool]

1. Nope!

We indigenous folks have been down that road before.

[marble falls]

2. It wouldn't have gotten far enough for a call to go out, the MOVE....

activists were burnt and blown up in their own houses and homes.

[LuvNewcastle]

3. That's what irks me about this whole situation.

Why are the feds allowing these people to camp in a federal building and get care packages sent by mommy? At the very least, they should be isolated from all contact with the outside world. I'll bet I could find a hundred ways to flush them out of there. This is disgustingly ridiculous.

[leftofcool]

4. Why? Three words. They are white.

[icymist]

11. Because they're in cahoots with them?

eom

[ananda]

21. Maybe they have undercover agents there?

I was told that this idea was put forth in an article in Spiegel.

[jalan48]

5. We now have legislators calling for the privatization of public land.

The "movement" has gained momentum. I guess if they are allowed to stay indefinitely they must have a valid point, right? Or, has the corporate media and Obama allowed them to legitimize their point through inaction?

[newfie11]

7. They need to be voted out

People in this country need to wake up and keep these lands public for all of us to
Enjoy!

[newfie11]

8. Money is behind this!!!!!

We can't let this happen.

[jalan48]

9. I agree. Raiding the commons for private profit.

[treestar]

6. No!

It's really strange. So obvious.

[Lee-Lee]

10. It's hard for me to not see this as a giant honeypot operation

The conditions couldn't be more ideal. You have a location that has no civilians anywhere near it so nobody is in danger and its attracting more and more of these extremist wackos by the day.

It is already an intelligence goldmine I am sure, just in what data they can collect in photos and seeing who shows up.

And it's being done while putting nobody in danger- and the lack of response is actually making the militia idiots look even more like idiots because they can't seem to even bait the Feds into "oppressing" them.

If I was running things I would let this draw out for a few more weeks, let more come and go, have data gathered on every one of them. Then cut the power and block the roads and let anyone who wants to leave go while not letting anyone or any supplies in.


Then, in the background my intel folks would be working with prosecutors to draft all the stuff needed to go in front of a grand jury and get indictments. Keep the indictments sealed and then have a large coordinated late night raid that arrests them all in the wee hours. Do it months later when thier guard is down and they least expect it.

[Jim Lane]

30. I could believe the honeypot theory -- IF anything had happened to Cliven Bundy or his goons.

In Nevada, there was law enforcement action against the people who, after leaving the Bundy ranch, murdered two police officers. Other than that, nothing. Bundy has all his cows, he's still grazing them on our land without paying even the ridiculously discounted fee he officially owes, and the people who pointed guns at BLM agents have not been rounded up in a large coordinated late-night raid.

Their guard has been down for some time, I believe, but there's been no action.

[Lee-Lee]

36. If you have ever followed how the Feds work they can take months or years to move

I've rarely seen them move fast. When they know they have a case against someone they will take their time, develop it fully, check for even more leads and finally move to arrest somone usually months or even years later.

It is pretty typical for them to make arrests and you look back and see the arrest had been 1-2 years in the making and the offense they got the indictment for was months or years ago and they had proof at the time or shortly after. They take thier sweet time.

[Jim Lane]

37. That's true if they have to build a complex case about securities fraud or the like

"Man pointed gun at federal agent and we have the videotape" doesn't take much additional investigation.

Furthermore, the civil case should be much easier. There's no need for proof beyond a reasonable doubt. You show that the cattle are grazing on federal land and the fees haven't been paid. Get a judgment for the amount owed, plus interest and penalties. Then you can execute on the judgment against any assets of the judgment debtor you can find. Just doing the paperwork to put a lien on the cattle would cause Bundy some headaches whenever he tries to sell them. If he's put title to the cattle in some proxy's name then that person presumably owes grazing fees.

It may be that such efforts are afoot and the media just haven't reported on them, but I doubt it.

[Lee-Lee]

38. I'm willing to bet it's all in the works

I've seen cases where it was clear cut still take a year before they even took it before the grand jury.

[Duppers]

12. The situation reflects the state of this country:

insane.

[Omaha Steve]

13. Yep

K&R!

OS

[Bluenorthwest]

14. Alcatraz Island was occupied by Native American Activists for 19 months, people came and went

by boats one of which was named the Clearwater as it was paid for by Creedence Clearwater Revival. It stared with about 15 people, grew to 400 occupiers. They had a newsletter, press conferences, visits from Marlon Brando and Dick Gregory and Jane Fonda.
Space was rented on Pier 40 in SF to expedite shipping supplies to the Island. Hundreds of people attended Thanksgiving as day visitors.
Electricity was cut after 17 months.

[uponit7771]

39. thx for this

[zeemike]

15. And it is all right in our face,

Just as it was at the Bundy ranch.
They are not even trying to hide the fact that the y approve of this kind of criminal behavior and want more of it.

And it has more to do with the goal than it does with race...the elite covet the public lands and any group that will help them get it would be treated the same.

[HereSince1628]

18. The push is long standing and it's all consisent with the goals of pure capitalism

where all assets must be in private hands.

You may be correct that the deep government wants this. I have no way of knowing.

I do remember that during the Reagan admin the sentiments of the sagebrush movement even had adherents in southern Illinois who wanted Crab Orchard Wildlife Refuge returned to the state which could be made to sell much of the lakefront. The argument back then was the Williamson Country was being hurt by the loss of property tax, even as the recreational interests around the reservoir created taxes and private profits.

[2naSalit]

27. ^^THIS^^

with local confirmation that speculation about the deep (or shadow) gov't. is for real. Look at the Congressional members from western states advocating the sell off of our commons. They are now openly supporting these assbites... and one of the R frontrunner's campaign managers from NH went there to sit in with them last week. I suspect they are funded by the likes of the kocktopus and the chump empires... just waiting to blow this up and take down the whole country via a carefully orchestrated divide and conquer pogrom.

[beerandjesus]

16. Oh c'mon, ask us a hard question!

But that said, this is easily the most interesting thing I've read on the topic, it's about the role that mandatory minimums played in the shit storm leading up to this, and where there's an opportunity to make common cause:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/oregon-mandatory-minimums/422433/?utm_source=SFTwitter

If you're interested!

[Enthusiast]

17. It is pretty obvious to those of us that have given this some thought.

[gregcrawford]

19. The elephant in the room...

... illustrated by your OP, that no one wants to acknowledge, is that right-wing malice and corruption define the entire judicial system in this country.

Peaceful, unarmed Occupy protesters were severely beaten, maced at point-blank range, and arrested on absurd charges; Native Americans have had their land stolen out from under them with the help of corrupt courts, been given obscenely long prison sentences, and on occasion, have been murdered in cold blood.

But the County Sheriff shakes hands with a piece of shit domestic terrorist named Ammon Bundy.

Bundy and his band of jerk-offs could have made this a valid protest against very real transgressions by the government. Instead, they made it about their own grotesque ignorance of history and the law, and the infantile selfishness that is euphemistically called, "Rugged Individualism."

[KingCharlemagne]

22. Bravo! Should be its own OP, imo. - nt

[malaise]

32. Great post

Wish I could rec.

[Uncle Joe]

20. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, malaise.

[malaise]

33. So nice to see you Uncle Joe

[Uncle Joe]

35. It's nice to see you as well, malaise.

Peace to you.

[Douglas Carpenter]

23. Yah, I doubt many in authority would react the same to a "'well regulated'

African-American, American-Muslim or Indigenous American militia" if they seized a federal government building.

[Hortensis]

24. Yes. I do. I addressed this on another Malheur discussion.

For the same reasons the feds have not murdered these white weenies, they would not murder black weenies in the same position.

Looking at it very cynically, theoretically maybe even less so. We are in an election year, after all, with a Democratic administration. What benefit would there be for us in murdering a bunch of jerks-of-color?

[mfcorey1]

25. It's like law enforcement hopes that we, the public, will forget that there is seizure of

government land happening in Oregon.

[Ichingcarpenter]

26. The whole scene is ludicris

You have to think that somebody is letting them do this shit to keep them in the news..... which raises another question......... because anyone else, left of center would be either in jail or dead by now.

[2naSalit]

29. Seeing how the

sheriff is sympathetic doesn't help. And now that Congress critters are jumping on their bandwagon indictaes that this is also why the FBI are in a "holding pattern" regarding their ouster. I think any Congressional member announcing support needs to be arrested for sedition as well as aiding and abetting these criminals.

[Octafish]

28. That, and lead.

Lots and lots of lead.

[malaise]

31. As much lead as in the Flint river water

that Snyder authorized to poison the children??

[Octafish]

34. Snyder's sending out people door-to-door to make sure filters are set up correctly.

What they don't report is that the filters don't work 100-percent. Maybe 90-percent and that's a stretch.

http://flintwaterstudy.org/2015/09/additional-sampling-confirms-high-lead-in-flints-water-and-our-5-minute-flushing-advice-to-reduce-risk/

Snyder is a graduate of University of Michigan and he doesn't get past the money trumps peace mindset in order to operate in today's oligarchy.

Sick. En. Ning.