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Burger King Worker (Original Post) Scuba Jan 2016 OP
So you're saying US workers don't deserve $20 a hour? brooklynite Jan 2016 #1
Can we hook an alternator to that spin and generate electricity? hobbit709 Jan 2016 #2
It would probably power half of Manhattan. Cassiopeia Jan 2016 #8
Half of Manhattan? BeanMusical Jan 2016 #25
yes but the methane would choke us to death reddread Jan 2016 #42
Ha! SammyWinstonJack Jan 2016 #50
Funny, coming from a fan of the "champion" of the $15/hour movement who only supports $12. Scuba Jan 2016 #3
...who's been criticized for not supporting a "real" living wage of $15... brooklynite Jan 2016 #4
If you're willing to work with us.... daleanime Jan 2016 #47
Wait. What? Orrex Jan 2016 #10
2 minute response time! Whoo-ooo! Divernan Jan 2016 #13
Right...because I'm wealthy brooklynite Jan 2016 #15
LOL. You should be BUYING 'Merican!!! 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2016 #55
Lol! BeanMusical Jan 2016 #31
LOL! SammyWinstonJack Jan 2016 #51
It's gotten embarrassing for me to be from Brooklyn... The_Commonist Jan 2016 #17
Can't we all pleasantly agree that Denmark has a system that is better for people than here? mucifer Jan 2016 #30
What?!? Sanders is running?!? Thanks Obama... Bubzer Jan 2016 #34
Must give credit where credit is due. You got your response in within two minutes. rhett o rick Jan 2016 #61
Did that meme emanate from THiS "Golden Arches" Mickey D meme? MADem Jan 2016 #5
And how many fast food workers here are full time? hobbit709 Jan 2016 #9
I think a lot are, nowadays. It wasn't the case in years past, when fast food work MADem Jan 2016 #14
If sales taxes are more than triple madville Jan 2016 #16
I tend to squint a bit at shit coming out of FORBES magazine (because that mag owner is a MADem Jan 2016 #21
My guess is that the PPP is way off Sanity Claws Jan 2016 #52
Like I said, I do tend to squint a bit!!! nt MADem Jan 2016 #54
There are numerous other factors that need to be considered: bvar22 Jan 2016 #60
Thanks for posting Omaha Steve Jan 2016 #6
The guy in Denmark also has healthcare Doctor_J Jan 2016 #7
That's the entire purpose and goal of the Repig/Turd Way project. hifiguy Jan 2016 #62
How much ryan_cats Jan 2016 #11
At current exchange rates madville Jan 2016 #19
I stepped in a McDonalds LittleGirl Jan 2016 #27
And their prices are more than double what they are here madville Jan 2016 #12
So double my food price, but triple my wage and give me benefits including health care ... Scuba Jan 2016 #20
Closer to double the wage, U.S. Average is $9 an hour madville Jan 2016 #23
You're using American's right to buy insurance as an argument? Holy crap! Scuba Jan 2016 #24
It's a factor, yes. madville Jan 2016 #32
is that a "right"? reddread Jan 2016 #44
What are the gun laws in Denmark? Sancho Jan 2016 #18
K&R! Thanks for the post, Scuba. Duval Jan 2016 #22
Interesting range of responses to this n/t n2doc Jan 2016 #26
Yet some deny the Democratic Party has been infiltrated by conservatives. Scuba Jan 2016 #28
And I would bet there are some correlations between those folks and the responses here n/t n2doc Jan 2016 #29
I have absolutely no doubts you're right on that. Bubzer Jan 2016 #37
Kick and R BeanMusical Jan 2016 #33
Whooper Meal in Denmark is $7.87 James48 Jan 2016 #35
memes that take 4 seconds to read aren't good arguments- snooper2 Jan 2016 #36
Interesting summary of differences... stillwaiting Jan 2016 #38
Yep. Lower grocery prices and higher fast food prices. Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2016 #39
I don't think those numbers include the 25% VAT though snooper2 Jan 2016 #40
That would be good to know, but local purchasing power is HIGHER in Denmark overall. stillwaiting Jan 2016 #41
They also have a FRACTION of our population, almost 6 million or so...vs 330 million snooper2 Jan 2016 #43
And we are still a wealthier nation per capita than Denmark. stillwaiting Jan 2016 #45
"There's lies, damned lies, and statistics"-Mark Twain hobbit709 Jan 2016 #53
A roughly 16% higher cost of living for a substantually higher standard of living is doable. Bubzer Jan 2016 #46
...wow. SoapBox Jan 2016 #48
Congress could raise the Federal minimum to $15 an hour TODAY _if the RW in Congress wanted to_ Sunlei Jan 2016 #49
If Burger King was the ONLY place to work Facility Inspector Jan 2016 #56
Oops. Replied to the wrong person. Iggo Jan 2016 #57
My 1st job was at BK when min wage was $2.30. Ultimately I was "promoted" to manager corkhead Jan 2016 #58
Burger King probably still upset that they had to pull back from becoming a Canadian company... cascadiance Jan 2016 #59
By my calculation Bernblu Jan 2016 #63

brooklynite

(94,520 posts)
1. So you're saying US workers don't deserve $20 a hour?
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 08:53 AM
Jan 2016

Or is criticizing Sanders for not reaching far enough too difficult?

brooklynite

(94,520 posts)
4. ...who's been criticized for not supporting a "real" living wage of $15...
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 09:02 AM
Jan 2016

...so I suppose that extra $5 isn't necessary?

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
13. 2 minute response time! Whoo-ooo!
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 09:30 AM
Jan 2016

And extra points for major spin!

OT, but how's that Maserati running? Do you put it up on blocks for the winter?

The_Commonist

(2,518 posts)
17. It's gotten embarrassing for me to be from Brooklyn...
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 09:43 AM
Jan 2016

...and read the drivel that you post.

Holy crap, I just hope you're not like my sister or one of my friends.
I doubt it, but you never know...

mucifer

(23,539 posts)
30. Can't we all pleasantly agree that Denmark has a system that is better for people than here?
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 10:04 AM
Jan 2016

This wasn't posted in the "Primaries" section. It's in "General discussion".

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
61. Must give credit where credit is due. You got your response in within two minutes.
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 08:50 PM
Jan 2016

That isn't easy, I've tried.

But apparently you didn't understand the OP. Do you agree with H. Clinton that the min wage should trail a living wage? Give the poor corporations a break? I think the point of the OP is that kind of thinking is typical of the American Conservative.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
5. Did that meme emanate from THiS "Golden Arches" Mickey D meme?
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 09:03 AM
Jan 2016

This meme is several years old, fwiw....

A 2012 annual report from McDonald’s Denmark gives some overall figures. (We used Google Translate to understand the key sections.) Nearly 4,000 Danes work under the Golden Arches, almost all, about 3,500, are hourly employees, and very few are full-time.

In its report, the company bundled those part-time hours and converted them into full-time equivalents. In 2011, it paid wages of 530 million Danish kroner to what would be equal to 2,040 full-time workers. That’s different from talking about what the typical worker actually got. Still, when you do the math, the company paid the mathematically average full-time worker about $46,700 that year.

Statistics Denmark is the government agency that tracks labor information. For the category of food service counter attendants, the annual pay in 2012 was over $41,000. That is for all companies, not just McDonald’s. On an hourly basis, that translates to about $20 an hour.

This lines up with a survey run by two economists, Orley Ashenfelter at Princeton University and Stepan Jurajda at CERGE-EI, an economic research center in Prague. Since 1998, they have tracked hourly wages of McDonald’s workers worldwide. (They use the price of a Big Mac as a way to compare worker pay to the cost of living, as in, how many Big Macs does a person get paid an hour.)

Jurajda told PunditFact that their most recent survey found Danish McDonald’s workers make about $20 an hour.

The catch here is that those hourly wages only deliver an annual income of $41,000 or more if a person works full-time, and we know that most people are part-timers. We asked the McDonald’s corporation, both in Denmark and America, for the median yearly earnings. A company spokesman sent us the statement, "Our hourly rates of pay depend on the role the employee is doing and their age"....


http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/sep/03/other-98/can-you-make-45000year-mcdonalds-denmark/

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
9. And how many fast food workers here are full time?
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 09:14 AM
Jan 2016

So if you work 20hrs/wk for 52 weeks at $20/hr in Denmark you get $20+K
At $9/hr here for 20hrs/wk for 52 weeks you get $9360.

you have a better chance of making it at $20K than you do at under $10K

MADem

(135,425 posts)
14. I think a lot are, nowadays. It wasn't the case in years past, when fast food work
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 09:38 AM
Jan 2016

was, by and large, for high school and college kids on a part time basis, and (dated sexist reference, mind you) "bored housewives" working for what was dismissively called "pin money."

In years past, that WAS the paradigm. Not so anymore. In fact, many people work two 'fast food' jobs to make ends meet. Work all day at the burger joint, deliver pizzas in the evening, that type of thing. That's just too much work, IMO.

No one, pretty much, regarded those jobs as "careers," save for the very few people in "management." Maybe a franchise owner, a day and night manager, and a couple of "assistant managers." The rest of the staff was always, when this format was established, traditionally part - time. The kids worked there for a few years, earning money for college or what-have-you, and then moved on to their "real" job when they grew up.

Nowadays, people DO rely on that kind of "kid's work" to feed their families. And maybe that's what the problem is, to no small extent--that adults are doing children's work. There aren't any--or enough--"adult" jobs.

I'd also be interested in knowing how the cost of living compares between a nine dollar an hour US economy and Denmark. I don't know if twenty bucks an hour is, in fact, a "cakewalk" for Danes. If living in Denmark is anything like living in UK, in terms of what things cost and how people are taxed, that money won't go all that far.

Now, by pointing this out I am NOT -- not for a single moment -- suggesting that nine bucks an hour is a fair wage in this day and age. I do think we need to work towards fifteen. I don't think lowering the boom and changing the wage scale overnight is the way to do it, though. It needs to go up incrementally over two to five years. Otherwise, business owners will refuse to back it, and Congress won't be willing to piss them off. That's simple reality. You don't get anywhere without selling the idea to Congress, and the way you sell it is "A rising tide lifts all boats." Thing is, you want the tide to RISE, not create a tsunami. As wages rise, costs will, too--the customer is not going to be thrilled to pay a dollar extra for a hamburger from one day to the next. They'll pay twenty cents more, then thirty, then fifty...but it has to happen over time. A lot of places are doing this, independent of the federal government, already. High cost areas are setting their own standard wages. Fifteen bucks doesn't go as far in NYC as it does in Shaw, Mississippi, for example.

The federal government will likely, as it often does, trail behind the states and local municipalities on this issue. I don't expect Congress to lead the way, here. They'll be pulled along, if not kicking and screaming, pouting and foot-dragging.

madville

(7,410 posts)
16. If sales taxes are more than triple
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 09:43 AM
Jan 2016

And things like fast food cost more than double as they do here, how much farther does that higher salary go? Or is it negated?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
21. I tend to squint a bit at shit coming out of FORBES magazine (because that mag owner is a
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 09:50 AM
Jan 2016

libertarian lunatic, among other reasons) but someone on his staff did do an analysis of the "buying power" of this wage:


...They’re clearly using some rather strange exchange rate as 110 DK is $16.35 at today’s rate. Still impressive as compared to the US.

But that’s not enough: if we want to compare wages we need to compare what they will actually buy. That is, we must adjust for Purchasing Power Parity, or PPP. And the correction there is 1.4. That is, in terms of what you can actually buy with any amount of money in the Danish economy we must divide the market exchange rate by 1.4. Which gives us $11.70 per hour as the Danish minimum wage.


Now, you might think that this is all fiddling around with the numbers and you’d be right. But it’s also fiddling around with the numbers in the correct manner. As we can see when we go to look at the OECD’s numbers for “real minimum wage”. That’s here. Set that to hourly and you’ll see that, among the OECD countries, the Australian minimum wage is in fact. $10.50, The French $10.70 and so on. That’s the “real” minimum wage, that’s what that minimum would buy you, in America, at current American prices.

Denmark’s not on that list as it being a very small country it’s not in that OECD database. But the corrections I’ve applied are exactly what are used to correct those OECD numbers.

And there’s one other thing to note. A $15 an hour minimum wage in the US (by definition, PPP numbers are set to US prices, so $15 is both the market and PPP exchange rate value for the US) would be nearly 50% higher than the minimum wage in any other OECD country, ie any other rich and large country.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/08/12/denmark-does-not-have-a-20-minimum-wage-try-11-70-instead/

At the end of the day, though, we need to move the minimum wage up. The federal wage in this century is an utter disgrace. It's just not enough. Odds are, as I said elsewhere, that the Congress will be dragged, kicking, screaming, whining, crying, by states and cities that do the right thing FIRST...leaving the federal government to follow along, as they do.

Sanity Claws

(21,847 posts)
52. My guess is that the PPP is way off
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 11:37 AM
Jan 2016

I wonder what was compared in the PPP. The US pays much more in health care and education than Denmark residents.
If they were analyzing only food and gas prices, they would no way get near the true differences in PPP.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
60. There are numerous other factors that need to be considered:
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 06:20 PM
Jan 2016

*Health & Medical Care available to EVERYONE, FREE at the point of delivery.
Free Emergency Care for visitors.

*Tuition Free Education

*The state covers 75% of child care costs...more for workers who make less.

It looks to me that the higher taxes are a DEAL compared to what they buy for the Danish Worker.
I would gladly pay higher taxes for the above benefits.
So would anyone else with an ounce of sense.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
7. The guy in Denmark also has healthcare
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 09:09 AM
Jan 2016

that costs him nothing out of pocket. The republicans and DINOS have turned us into a third world country.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
62. That's the entire purpose and goal of the Repig/Turd Way project.
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 09:07 PM
Jan 2016

A few thousand billionaires served by impoverished peasants and serfs and a select circle of well-paid retainers and courtiers. The New Feudalism, but without the obligations of feudalism.

LittleGirl

(8,287 posts)
27. I stepped in a McDonalds
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 10:00 AM
Jan 2016

last week and found the big mac was 14 bucks here in Switzerland. Dollar to Franc = 1:1 now.

madville

(7,410 posts)
12. And their prices are more than double what they are here
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 09:28 AM
Jan 2016

Just looked up McDonalds and Burger King in Denmark. Their "Dollar Menu" equivalent items there are 15 kr. which is equivalent to $2.18 here in the U.S.

Some of that could be higher operating costs other than labor of course, like utilities, taxes, food costs, etc.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
20. So double my food price, but triple my wage and give me benefits including health care ...
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 09:45 AM
Jan 2016

... and paid time off? I'll take it!!!

madville

(7,410 posts)
23. Closer to double the wage, U.S. Average is $9 an hour
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 09:55 AM
Jan 2016

Their VAT is also 25%, around three to four times the average sales tax here in the U.S. It's not as simple as a meme makes it sound. Does a typical fast food worker here qualify for Medicaid, are they eligible for coverage until age 26 on their parents plan, get an ACA subsidy?

madville

(7,410 posts)
32. It's a factor, yes.
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 10:12 AM
Jan 2016

It depends what portion of their pay is taxed and how much they pay in VAT taxes to support that healthcare system.

Their sales/VAT taxes are 3 or 4 times higher than here and goods and services are more than double.

You can't admit that those factors cut into that $20 an hour figure? There are 100s of different factors that muddy the waters of such a meme.

I'm just saying that even though they are paid double that doesn't automatically mean they make twice as much.

Sancho

(9,067 posts)
18. What are the gun laws in Denmark?
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 09:44 AM
Jan 2016

Maybe instead of repealing Citizen's United there needs to be a replacement of the 2nd Amendment!

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/denmark

http://www.bustle.com/articles/64394-what-are-gun-laws-in-denmark-like-theyre-pretty-well-regulated

While accepting that the facts could change, since so much is still unknown about the attacks, it seems unlikely that they could have. As it turns out, Denmark has (by global standards) pretty restrictive gun laws, and boasts a significantly different national attitude towards firearms ownership than, say, the gun-loving United States does. From a cultural perspective, this may be in part because there's no Danish version of the Second Amendment — there's no fundamental right to gun ownership in Denmark, which is about as lightyears away from the American way as it gets.

But it reaps rewards in terms of limiting gun-related deaths. As detailed by GunPolicy.org, the data shows Denmark's cellar-low levels of gun deaths, with less than two people killed by guns for every 100,000 Danish citizens from 1998 to 2011.


anybody who wants to legally own a gun in Denmark must be licensed, passing a background check, stating a reason why they need the firearm, and being entered into law enforcement records so that everyone's arms are accounted for. Basically, by the NRA's standards, it's like a harrowing nightmare realm.


What difference is a pay raise when you live in a neighborhood where you're ducking bullets?

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
29. And I would bet there are some correlations between those folks and the responses here n/t
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 10:03 AM
Jan 2016

Last edited Tue Jan 12, 2016, 12:30 PM - Edit history (1)

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
36. memes that take 4 seconds to read aren't good arguments-
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 10:39 AM
Jan 2016

One should look at the whole picture but that would require like reading and stuff LOL

US Denmark
Gasoline (1 gallon) 2.47 $ (16.98 kr) 5.93 $ (40.74 kr) +139.84 %

Volkswagen Golf 1.4 90 KW Trendline (Or Equivalent New Car) 21,107.50 $ (144,930.43 kr) 39,176.85 $ (269,000.00 kr) +85.61 %



Internet is cheaper there though, of course you may want to fly to NYC to buy your jeans


http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=Denmark

stillwaiting

(3,795 posts)
38. Interesting summary of differences...
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 10:52 AM
Jan 2016

Indices Difference Info
Consumer Prices in Denmark are 15.45% higher than in United States
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Denmark are 4.02% higher than in United States
Rent Prices in Denmark are 19.74% lower than in United States
Restaurant Prices in Denmark are 42.85% higher than in United States
Groceries Prices in Denmark are 7.82% lower than in United States
Local Purchasing Power in Denmark is 1.97% higher than in United States <------ local purchasing power is HIGHER in Denmark.

And, the things that are higher are not substantially higher compared to their much higher wages they give labor.

I guess that's why their middle class is so much stronger than ours. It's something to work towards here in my opinion.



Hassin Bin Sober

(26,326 posts)
39. Yep. Lower grocery prices and higher fast food prices.
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 11:03 AM
Jan 2016

I could live with that. Stay home and cook a healthy meal with your larger paycheck rather than fill your kids up with "dollar menu meals" and high fructose corn syrup.

stillwaiting

(3,795 posts)
41. That would be good to know, but local purchasing power is HIGHER in Denmark overall.
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 11:06 AM
Jan 2016

And, rent is SUBSTANTIALLY lower (which is one of our largest expenses by far).

As I said, the middle class is doing much better in Denmark than in the United States. Labor has it much better over there, and they are subject to MUCH less stress throughout the course of their lives. It's a shame that some of us in the Democratic Party don't accept that as fact.

stillwaiting

(3,795 posts)
45. And we are still a wealthier nation per capita than Denmark.
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 11:10 AM
Jan 2016

Keep on fighting for average Americans!!!

Bubzer

(4,211 posts)
46. A roughly 16% higher cost of living for a substantually higher standard of living is doable.
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 11:14 AM
Jan 2016
Cost of living in Denmark is 15.45% higher than in United States (aggregate data for all cities, rent is not taken into account). Rent in Denmark is 19.74% lower than in United States (average data for all cities).

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
48. ...wow.
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 11:18 AM
Jan 2016

And America is supposed to be the greatest nation on Earth?

Greatest when it comes to wasting money on bombs but no so much when it comes to all of its citizens.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
49. Congress could raise the Federal minimum to $15 an hour TODAY _if the RW in Congress wanted to_
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 11:21 AM
Jan 2016

All eligible voters who deserve a $15.00 minimum wage could VOTE them out, if those real Americans- who do NOT Vote, got off their asses and voted.

Our VOTE is the only Democracy America has, once elected the 'republic' takes over & elected can do whatever they want. That's why the RW does all they can to keep people from Voting. Only Republican party members suppress the votes, redistrict maps-gerrymander, send their dumbass Baggers-Koch John Birch Society RW- out to obstruct our ONE VOTE

 

Facility Inspector

(615 posts)
56. If Burger King was the ONLY place to work
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 12:04 PM
Jan 2016

and represented the totality of OPPORTUNITY worldwide, this graphic would move me.

corkhead

(6,119 posts)
58. My 1st job was at BK when min wage was $2.30. Ultimately I was "promoted" to manager
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 01:49 PM
Jan 2016

where I received a salary of $11,000 and worked 80 hours a week with no extra compensation other than to get 2 or 3 free meals a day. Do the math.

Turned out it was the best motivator I ever could imagine to go to school and get a degree, which I did. I started at a community college where tuition was $18 per credit hour if you can imagine that, but this was the early 80s.

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
59. Burger King probably still upset that they had to pull back from becoming a Canadian company...
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 04:29 PM
Jan 2016

... to avoid U.S. taxes, and that probably contributes a bit to their wanting to screw over American workers more here than in other places around the world. Blame the workers for the system screwing us all that has bought in to "free trade" globalization race to the bottom crap. Now our workers are also becoming the bottom in the developed world.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/aug/29/burger-king/burger-king-says-its-not-moving-and-will-continue-/

Bernblu

(441 posts)
63. By my calculation
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 02:54 AM
Jan 2016

it will take our American burger king guy over 161 years (working 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year) to earn as much money as Hillary earned in 12 speeches to big banks. It will take our Denmark guy about 70 years but he won't need to because he will get a pension and medical coverage.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Burger King Worker