General Discussion
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(94,520 posts)Or is criticizing Sanders for not reaching far enough too difficult?
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)More like half the planet!
reddread
(6,896 posts)and really crank up the climate change
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)brooklynite
(94,520 posts)...so I suppose that extra $5 isn't necessary?
daleanime
(17,796 posts)we're willing to raise our sights.
Orrex
(63,208 posts)Um?
Divernan
(15,480 posts)And extra points for major spin!
OT, but how's that Maserati running? Do you put it up on blocks for the winter?
brooklynite
(94,520 posts)FWIW I drive a Volkswagen GTI.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)The_Commonist
(2,518 posts)...and read the drivel that you post.
Holy crap, I just hope you're not like my sister or one of my friends.
I doubt it, but you never know...
mucifer
(23,539 posts)This wasn't posted in the "Primaries" section. It's in "General discussion".
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)That isn't easy, I've tried.
But apparently you didn't understand the OP. Do you agree with H. Clinton that the min wage should trail a living wage? Give the poor corporations a break? I think the point of the OP is that kind of thinking is typical of the American Conservative.
MADem
(135,425 posts)This meme is several years old, fwiw....
In its report, the company bundled those part-time hours and converted them into full-time equivalents. In 2011, it paid wages of 530 million Danish kroner to what would be equal to 2,040 full-time workers. Thats different from talking about what the typical worker actually got. Still, when you do the math, the company paid the mathematically average full-time worker about $46,700 that year.
Statistics Denmark is the government agency that tracks labor information. For the category of food service counter attendants, the annual pay in 2012 was over $41,000. That is for all companies, not just McDonalds. On an hourly basis, that translates to about $20 an hour.
This lines up with a survey run by two economists, Orley Ashenfelter at Princeton University and Stepan Jurajda at CERGE-EI, an economic research center in Prague. Since 1998, they have tracked hourly wages of McDonalds workers worldwide. (They use the price of a Big Mac as a way to compare worker pay to the cost of living, as in, how many Big Macs does a person get paid an hour.)
Jurajda told PunditFact that their most recent survey found Danish McDonalds workers make about $20 an hour.
The catch here is that those hourly wages only deliver an annual income of $41,000 or more if a person works full-time, and we know that most people are part-timers. We asked the McDonalds corporation, both in Denmark and America, for the median yearly earnings. A company spokesman sent us the statement, "Our hourly rates of pay depend on the role the employee is doing and their age"....
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/sep/03/other-98/can-you-make-45000year-mcdonalds-denmark/
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)So if you work 20hrs/wk for 52 weeks at $20/hr in Denmark you get $20+K
At $9/hr here for 20hrs/wk for 52 weeks you get $9360.
you have a better chance of making it at $20K than you do at under $10K
MADem
(135,425 posts)was, by and large, for high school and college kids on a part time basis, and (dated sexist reference, mind you) "bored housewives" working for what was dismissively called "pin money."
In years past, that WAS the paradigm. Not so anymore. In fact, many people work two 'fast food' jobs to make ends meet. Work all day at the burger joint, deliver pizzas in the evening, that type of thing. That's just too much work, IMO.
No one, pretty much, regarded those jobs as "careers," save for the very few people in "management." Maybe a franchise owner, a day and night manager, and a couple of "assistant managers." The rest of the staff was always, when this format was established, traditionally part - time. The kids worked there for a few years, earning money for college or what-have-you, and then moved on to their "real" job when they grew up.
Nowadays, people DO rely on that kind of "kid's work" to feed their families. And maybe that's what the problem is, to no small extent--that adults are doing children's work. There aren't any--or enough--"adult" jobs.
I'd also be interested in knowing how the cost of living compares between a nine dollar an hour US economy and Denmark. I don't know if twenty bucks an hour is, in fact, a "cakewalk" for Danes. If living in Denmark is anything like living in UK, in terms of what things cost and how people are taxed, that money won't go all that far.
Now, by pointing this out I am NOT -- not for a single moment -- suggesting that nine bucks an hour is a fair wage in this day and age. I do think we need to work towards fifteen. I don't think lowering the boom and changing the wage scale overnight is the way to do it, though. It needs to go up incrementally over two to five years. Otherwise, business owners will refuse to back it, and Congress won't be willing to piss them off. That's simple reality. You don't get anywhere without selling the idea to Congress, and the way you sell it is "A rising tide lifts all boats." Thing is, you want the tide to RISE, not create a tsunami. As wages rise, costs will, too--the customer is not going to be thrilled to pay a dollar extra for a hamburger from one day to the next. They'll pay twenty cents more, then thirty, then fifty...but it has to happen over time. A lot of places are doing this, independent of the federal government, already. High cost areas are setting their own standard wages. Fifteen bucks doesn't go as far in NYC as it does in Shaw, Mississippi, for example.
The federal government will likely, as it often does, trail behind the states and local municipalities on this issue. I don't expect Congress to lead the way, here. They'll be pulled along, if not kicking and screaming, pouting and foot-dragging.
madville
(7,410 posts)And things like fast food cost more than double as they do here, how much farther does that higher salary go? Or is it negated?
MADem
(135,425 posts)libertarian lunatic, among other reasons) but someone on his staff did do an analysis of the "buying power" of this wage:
But thats not enough: if we want to compare wages we need to compare what they will actually buy. That is, we must adjust for Purchasing Power Parity, or PPP. And the correction there is 1.4. That is, in terms of what you can actually buy with any amount of money in the Danish economy we must divide the market exchange rate by 1.4. Which gives us $11.70 per hour as the Danish minimum wage.
Now, you might think that this is all fiddling around with the numbers and youd be right. But its also fiddling around with the numbers in the correct manner. As we can see when we go to look at the OECDs numbers for real minimum wage. Thats here. Set that to hourly and youll see that, among the OECD countries, the Australian minimum wage is in fact. $10.50, The French $10.70 and so on. Thats the real minimum wage, thats what that minimum would buy you, in America, at current American prices.
Denmarks not on that list as it being a very small country its not in that OECD database. But the corrections Ive applied are exactly what are used to correct those OECD numbers.
And theres one other thing to note. A $15 an hour minimum wage in the US (by definition, PPP numbers are set to US prices, so $15 is both the market and PPP exchange rate value for the US) would be nearly 50% higher than the minimum wage in any other OECD country, ie any other rich and large country.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/08/12/denmark-does-not-have-a-20-minimum-wage-try-11-70-instead/
At the end of the day, though, we need to move the minimum wage up. The federal wage in this century is an utter disgrace. It's just not enough. Odds are, as I said elsewhere, that the Congress will be dragged, kicking, screaming, whining, crying, by states and cities that do the right thing FIRST...leaving the federal government to follow along, as they do.
Sanity Claws
(21,847 posts)I wonder what was compared in the PPP. The US pays much more in health care and education than Denmark residents.
If they were analyzing only food and gas prices, they would no way get near the true differences in PPP.
MADem
(135,425 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)*Health & Medical Care available to EVERYONE, FREE at the point of delivery.
Free Emergency Care for visitors.
*Tuition Free Education
*The state covers 75% of child care costs...more for workers who make less.
It looks to me that the higher taxes are a DEAL compared to what they buy for the Danish Worker.
I would gladly pay higher taxes for the above benefits.
So would anyone else with an ounce of sense.
Omaha Steve
(99,618 posts)K&R!
OS
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)that costs him nothing out of pocket. The republicans and DINOS have turned us into a third world country.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)A few thousand billionaires served by impoverished peasants and serfs and a select circle of well-paid retainers and courtiers. The New Feudalism, but without the obligations of feudalism.
ryan_cats
(2,061 posts)How much is a Whopper there VS here?
madville
(7,410 posts)Around double the price, around $7.
LittleGirl
(8,287 posts)last week and found the big mac was 14 bucks here in Switzerland. Dollar to Franc = 1:1 now.
madville
(7,410 posts)Just looked up McDonalds and Burger King in Denmark. Their "Dollar Menu" equivalent items there are 15 kr. which is equivalent to $2.18 here in the U.S.
Some of that could be higher operating costs other than labor of course, like utilities, taxes, food costs, etc.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... and paid time off? I'll take it!!!
madville
(7,410 posts)Their VAT is also 25%, around three to four times the average sales tax here in the U.S. It's not as simple as a meme makes it sound. Does a typical fast food worker here qualify for Medicaid, are they eligible for coverage until age 26 on their parents plan, get an ACA subsidy?
Scuba
(53,475 posts)madville
(7,410 posts)It depends what portion of their pay is taxed and how much they pay in VAT taxes to support that healthcare system.
Their sales/VAT taxes are 3 or 4 times higher than here and goods and services are more than double.
You can't admit that those factors cut into that $20 an hour figure? There are 100s of different factors that muddy the waters of such a meme.
I'm just saying that even though they are paid double that doesn't automatically mean they make twice as much.
reddread
(6,896 posts)Sancho
(9,067 posts)Maybe instead of repealing Citizen's United there needs to be a replacement of the 2nd Amendment!
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/denmark
http://www.bustle.com/articles/64394-what-are-gun-laws-in-denmark-like-theyre-pretty-well-regulated
But it reaps rewards in terms of limiting gun-related deaths. As detailed by GunPolicy.org, the data shows Denmark's cellar-low levels of gun deaths, with less than two people killed by guns for every 100,000 Danish citizens from 1998 to 2011.
What difference is a pay raise when you live in a neighborhood where you're ducking bullets?
Duval
(4,280 posts)n2doc
(47,953 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)n2doc
(47,953 posts)Last edited Tue Jan 12, 2016, 12:30 PM - Edit history (1)
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)James48
(4,435 posts)that's about a buck more than in most of the USA.
Not bad.
http://www.nclnet.org/fast_food_workers_and_the_international_double_standard
snooper2
(30,151 posts)One should look at the whole picture but that would require like reading and stuff LOL
US Denmark
Gasoline (1 gallon) 2.47 $ (16.98 kr) 5.93 $ (40.74 kr) +139.84 %
Volkswagen Golf 1.4 90 KW Trendline (Or Equivalent New Car) 21,107.50 $ (144,930.43 kr) 39,176.85 $ (269,000.00 kr) +85.61 %
Internet is cheaper there though, of course you may want to fly to NYC to buy your jeans
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=Denmark
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)Indices Difference Info
Consumer Prices in Denmark are 15.45% higher than in United States
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Denmark are 4.02% higher than in United States
Rent Prices in Denmark are 19.74% lower than in United States
Restaurant Prices in Denmark are 42.85% higher than in United States
Groceries Prices in Denmark are 7.82% lower than in United States
Local Purchasing Power in Denmark is 1.97% higher than in United States <------ local purchasing power is HIGHER in Denmark.
And, the things that are higher are not substantially higher compared to their much higher wages they give labor.
I guess that's why their middle class is so much stronger than ours. It's something to work towards here in my opinion.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,326 posts)I could live with that. Stay home and cook a healthy meal with your larger paycheck rather than fill your kids up with "dollar menu meals" and high fructose corn syrup.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)And, rent is SUBSTANTIALLY lower (which is one of our largest expenses by far).
As I said, the middle class is doing much better in Denmark than in the United States. Labor has it much better over there, and they are subject to MUCH less stress throughout the course of their lives. It's a shame that some of us in the Democratic Party don't accept that as fact.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)Keep on fighting for average Americans!!!
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Bubzer
(4,211 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)And America is supposed to be the greatest nation on Earth?
Greatest when it comes to wasting money on bombs but no so much when it comes to all of its citizens.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)All eligible voters who deserve a $15.00 minimum wage could VOTE them out, if those real Americans- who do NOT Vote, got off their asses and voted.
Our VOTE is the only Democracy America has, once elected the 'republic' takes over & elected can do whatever they want. That's why the RW does all they can to keep people from Voting. Only Republican party members suppress the votes, redistrict maps-gerrymander, send their dumbass Baggers-Koch John Birch Society RW- out to obstruct our ONE VOTE
Facility Inspector
(615 posts)and represented the totality of OPPORTUNITY worldwide, this graphic would move me.
Iggo
(47,552 posts)Last edited Tue Jan 12, 2016, 03:41 PM - Edit history (1)
Sorry about that.
corkhead
(6,119 posts)where I received a salary of $11,000 and worked 80 hours a week with no extra compensation other than to get 2 or 3 free meals a day. Do the math.
Turned out it was the best motivator I ever could imagine to go to school and get a degree, which I did. I started at a community college where tuition was $18 per credit hour if you can imagine that, but this was the early 80s.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... to avoid U.S. taxes, and that probably contributes a bit to their wanting to screw over American workers more here than in other places around the world. Blame the workers for the system screwing us all that has bought in to "free trade" globalization race to the bottom crap. Now our workers are also becoming the bottom in the developed world.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/aug/29/burger-king/burger-king-says-its-not-moving-and-will-continue-/
Bernblu
(441 posts)it will take our American burger king guy over 161 years (working 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year) to earn as much money as Hillary earned in 12 speeches to big banks. It will take our Denmark guy about 70 years but he won't need to because he will get a pension and medical coverage.