FFS!!! Arrest the Sheriff? Bundy headed straight to the Harney County Sheriff's office for meeting
How much more of this bullshit is going to be tolerated? Also, employees have vacated their homes, pulled kids of of school and moved away for now in fear of this bunch.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/1/22/1473724/-FBI-talks-end-abruptly-Bundy-headed-straight-to-the-Harney-County-Sheriff-s-office-for-meeting
1/22/2016
Bundy was greeted by several neighboring county sheriffs, but was told Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward was not available. A smart move considering Ammon Bundy and his militants have convened a secret grand jury that they believe will result in the arrest and trial of both Sheriff Ward and Judge Steve Grasty. Ammon Bundy even has a fake judge to oversee the proceedings and shared video saying they have served notice to Judge Grasty. In other words, they have been talking about arresting Sheriff Dave Ward himself. Makes sense why they wouldn’t send him out to meet with Bundy and his likely armed posse.
Ammon asking to meet with sheriff at his office, he's told he isn't available. #koin6news pic.twitter.com/...
Ammon Bundy did meet with an FBI negotiator again today, but talks fell through almost immediately. Andrew Dymburt of CBS Portland was tailing Bundy as he made the tour around the county to meet with law enforcement:
Talks with FBI lasted all of about 5 mins. Bundy wants media allowed in meetings with FBI - FBI says no. So he walked @KOINNews
— Andrew Dymburt (@DymburtNews) January 22, 2016
Ammon Bundy and his posse of convicted felons acting as his bodyguards then headed straight over to speak with the sheriff directly.
Bundy has arrived. Waiting to speak with Harney County Sheriff @KOINNews pic.twitter.com/s4IAlAy76r
— Andrew Dymburt (@DymburtNews) January 22, 2016
Bundy was greeted by several neighboring county sheriffs, but was told Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward was not available. A smart move considering Ammon Bundy and his militants have convened a secret grand jury that they believe will result in the arrest and trial of both Sheriff Ward and Judge Steve Grasty. Ammon Bundy even has a fake judge to oversee the proceedings and shared video saying they have served notice to Judge Grasty. In other words, they have been talking about arresting Sheriff Dave Ward himself. Makes sense why they wouldn’t send him out to meet with Bundy and his likely armed posse.
Ammon asking to meet with sheriff at his office, he's told he isn't available. #koin6news pic.twitter.com/...
— Jennifer Dowling (@JenDowlingKoin6) January 22, 2016
Geoff Norcross and John Sepulvado from Oregon Public Broadcasting discussed the so-called grand jury today:
= new reply since forum marked as read
or play with their toy rifles, or black men waiting on the side of the road in their car for a tow truck after their car breaks down in the middle of the night, or walking down the road, or just breathing and being alive, they're the REAL "thugs".
authorities and citizens but with firm distain.
The fruit of any success by these idiots will be similar attempts throughout the wildlands of the west and possibly into the inner ghettos of the cities.
The USA does not want to be Syria or Yemen or other failed states in even the smallest way.
These tactics should be unthinkable here.
from wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement
The sovereign citizen movement is a loose grouping of American and Canadian litigants, commentators, tax protesters and financial-scheme promoters. Self-described sovereign citizens take the position that they are answerable only to their particular interpretation of the common law and are not subject to any statutes or proceedings at the federal, state or municipal levels;[1] that they do not recognize United States currency; and/or that they are "free of any legal constraints."[2][3][4] They especially reject most forms of taxation as illegitimate.[5] Participants in the movement argue this concept in opposition to "federal citizens," who, they say, have unknowingly forfeited their rights by accepting some aspect of federal law.[6] It is similar in doctrines to the freemen on the land movement, more commonly found in Britain and Canada.[7][8][9][10]
Many members of the sovereign citizen movement believe that the United States government is illegitimate.[11] JJ MacNab, who writes for Forbes about anti-government extremism, describes the sovereign citizen movement as consisting of individuals who believe that the County Sheriff is the most powerful law-enforcement officer in the country, with authority superior to that of any federal agent, elected official or local law-enforcement official.[12] This belief comes from the movement's descendence from the racist Posse Comitatus movement.
The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) classifies some sovereign citizens ("sovereign citizen extremists"
as domestic terrorists.[13] In 2010, the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) estimated that approximately 100,000 Americans were "hard-core sovereign believers," with another 200,000 "just starting out by testing sovereign techniques for resisting everything from speeding tickets to drug charges."[14]
According to a 2014 report by the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START), a survey of law-enforcement officials and agencies across the United States concluded that the movement was the single greatest threat to their communities, ranking above Islamic terrorists and jihadists.[15][16][17] Sovereign citizens have also been identified as a potential terrorist threat by the New South Wales Police Force in Australia.[18
Secure the perimeter by setting up blockages on roads. No in or out. An inner and outer perimeter (two levels) may help by establishing a no travel strip. If trespassers come to check points from inside the closed area, they are arrested. If individuals try to enter or supply the closed area from outside, they are arrested.
The entire wildlife area is not occupied but the limited number of militia are located at one area, greatly reducing the area actually subject to the effective area closure.. The area around the wildlife refuge is mostly open in nature and road density is sparse. Aerial surveillance could be used for leakage not on roads.
The lead agency for the closure would the Federal Marshall Service assisted by National Guard and federally deputized local and regional law enforcement.
I am somewhat familiar with Burns and eastern Oregon (as I noted in an earlier post) having been one of two management consultants from Portland, OR hired by a committee of Burns businessmen in 1991 to work with the Feds. The reasons were because the sawmills in Hines and Burns had closed, there had been a nearby large (50,000 acres plus) forest fire, and management of the National Forests were in transition. I changed employment and did not finish the project but one outcome was the beginning of the federal stewardship contracting programs.
I grew up and now live in Indian Country on a National Forest inholding. Nearly half of the surrounding National Forest is federal Wilderness and land ownership is 95% plus federal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klamath_Mountains). It is 40 miles downriver to the nearest deputy in Humboldt county and 50 miles upriver to the nearest deputy in Siskiyou county. My family grazed federal lands that dated 30 years prior to the creation of the National Forests and later had grazing permits but had not been active since before WWII when my Dad was a young man and my great grandfather and great uncles were still active cattleman. My Dad was a redneck and I wasn't. My rebellion was to work for the Feds, at first to avoid his gravel crusher.
The Feds are readily able to set up fire camps for 500 people in days for wildfires. For large fires sometimes the National Guard are dispatched. Road closures are standard practice.
I was a Fed employee from 1969 (summers in high school, never started university until age 21 when already career Fed) to 1985; post 1979 university grad and professional. I was a District Logging Engineer/Timber Sale Planner and District Silviculturist at the professional level when there were still large National Forest timber sale programs. In 1987 completed a Cal MBA and went to work for a Portland, OR management consulting firm as project manager and resource analyst. The work served private sector/corporate clients for timberland appraisal, due diligence for M&A, regional timber supply studies, and public forest policy. I worked all western states, Alaska, all New England states, and Michigan. There is not a county in Oregon where I have not worked and I once had a passing or intimate knowledge of virtually all large corporate parcels of timberland in Oregon and had reason to know about private and public timber inventories, harvests, and values throughout the state. I left the Portland job and went to work in 1994 under a federal grant, still doing some management consulting also, at Oregon State. I returned to California in 1999 and essentially retired for medical reasons in 2003.
When I was with the USFS, I was project manager of a large and controversial herbicide project in 1983. The local county had passed an initiative banning the use of herbicides in the forest and there was a lawsuit between the CA Department of Food and Agriculture and the county over jurisdiction. The Feds sided with the State against the county and I was told to prepare the project even though the Feds had not sprayed on that Ranger District since 1968. The State won the lawsuit. I was also associated with several other unpopular projects and was once spit on in one of the local grocery stores and demonstrations were frequent at the office. I was the new and young Fed that was unpopular with the environmentalists and the nascent militia types. There was a heavily publicized area closure during operations. The Feds brought in 25 or so security folks; a few Federal Marshalls for leadership but mostly USFS employees trained and employed in law enforcement "Level IVs" gathered from the agency.
Part of the Implementation Plan was the Security Plan and I worked this up with one of the Federal Marshalls and learned one good trick, Fed contracting authority can be parallel and separate from line command. The lead Marshall realized I was most concerned about being interfered with by the District Ranger and other mucky mucks. Why? There was a water monitoring and spray drift crew. There was a crew that did the immediate prep for units. There was a crew in white (to be turned purple) hazmat suits following the spray for coverage. There was a crew for mixing and filling the brew for the contract sprayers (there were 30 plus sprayers with backpack pumps and their overhead; it was unusual that the Feds did all handling and mixing of the brew but I wrote the contract and the approach was new -- no history on the District and ground rather than helicopter spraying). There was a tanker getting water to the staged mix tanks. There were security crews at the highway and near the actual spray sites. There was 3 people to trouble shoot and document the project but I was the lead (Fed COR and state licensed applicator)and the operation was held together by handheld radios. The water monitors could have no contact with other Feds during the life of the project. There had been full and half page ads in the local papers and posters all over. People would be arrested. The good trick was that the District Ranger, Forest Supervisor, etc. that came to visit got through the first stop but were not allowed into the operation area. Instead they were given a map of scenic vistas, binoculars, a handheld radio on our frequency, and a tour guide. About 500 acres were sprayed per day. The security folks were at the sites for 24 hours per day for a week because of the concern that the streams would be deliberately contaminated (granted our spray mix was "marked" and the water monitoring of the streams out of the area continued until there has been several inches of rain. The DR was surprised to be stopped and I told him on the radio that operations were intense and to take it up with the Forest Contracting Officer and the Federal Marshalls.
I was at a boarding school near San Francisco in 1969 and 1970 when the American Indians occupied Alcatraz. In the opinion of some I spent too much time at political protests, rock and roll, and smoking pot and so came home for my senior year of high school on the Hupa Reservation. My last high school gf went to Alcatraz and learned to use heroin and later went to prison and paid a large price in her life for that detour. Few of the American Indians on Alcatraz, at least at first and the leadership, were from California Tribes though much organization of the protests happened at Cal. I am not American Indian but grew up (as did my parents) in what is the most Indian part of California. Later I earned a BS and MBA at Cal and took engineering classes at Oregon State as a Fed employee in between.
I do not want Malheur to be like Alcatraz nor like Ruby Ridge. Neither.
The Alcatraz situation was almost urban in a way and the issue righteous and with legal precedent. The initial occupiers were solid in planning but over time things did socially break down. However, they were successful in the political goals and launched a new era of Indian Activism, legislation, and Indian cultural rights on Federal holdings that continues to present. After Alcatraz there was a small occupation in the East Bay near Berkeley that was cleared by Federal Marshalls and US Army troops from the Presidio.
Ruby Ridge was a cluster f*ck and failure by the FBI and Federal Marshalls. I don't know enough about the situation to have a firm opinion except the killing of a woman and child and Federal agents was not warranted nor justified given what was at stake. Both Ruby Ridge and Waco seem to have gone ultra-violent when not necessary.
The trespassers and thieves at Malheur do not have the legal precedent nor righteousness of the American Indians on Alcatraz (or the Paiutes in Malheur for that matter). They are tools of those that would privatize the federal lands and prey on emotions and fear. The open range of the western states is romantic and historical but only marginally important in USA number to cattle raised in pastures and feedlots and mixed farming systems. I do not know the present situation but grazing permits historically never came close to covering the cost and management funding was inadequate to regulate and protect other values. The longer the Malheur situation lingers, the more valid perception of a stance that has no validity will be built by the media and enjoyed by those that want to transfer national wealth and control at low cost to private interests.
I may be a native Californian but know/knew Oregon well and live in a sea of Douglas-fir.
We will all be better off when the Malheur situation is over and the perpetuators are prosecuted.
I am not that optimistic alas.
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..but that's OK because we Liberals have our shit together.
