I think the FBI deserves credit for preventing a Waco and getting almost all of them alive

[Quixote1818]

From my point of view the FBI and Obama who I am sure had some say in this, handled this perfectly. Here we were all saying they needed to block them in, cut the power etc. but allowing them to drive around and get dildos and French Vanilla creamer was perfect! They gave them just enough rope to hang themselves, completely piss off the locals and lose the PR war in spectacular fashion. Not to mention, because they thought they were free to drive around, they just waited for most of them to be on a secluded road to make their move.

I am wondering if the Sheriff from Grant County punked them? He was saying he would back them up in his county and they bought because things were quickly going south in Harney County, so they all tried to drive up there to a country where they had support from "the highest law official of the land" the Grand County Sheriff (at least as far as the idiot sovereign citizens are concerned). Little did they know they were driving right into a trap!

It's possible the Grant County Sheriff didn't punk them and was on their side, so perhaps the FBI knew they needed to nab them before they got support from a local yokel sheriff and the Yokel Haram nut-burgers gained some traction; who knows? Regardless I commend the FBI and State Police for the way this was handled.

By the way, I suspect the Oregon Governor was in frequent communications with the FBI and Obama and was told when she should start calling for it to end.

[RKP5637]

1. I thought it was exceptionally well handled too. They gave them enough rope to make themselves

look ridiculous for all the world to see. Also, they minimized casualties. It could have been a real blood bath! I too commend the FBI for the way this was handled!

[Wounded Bear]

5. Of lesser import of course, but meaningful...

would be the possible damage to facilities of a violent encounter at the site. They have already vandalized some areas, and I don't like some of the video I've seen of them rifling through the archaeological artifacts. The place is part museum for crying out loud, not some hang out for frat boys.

[RKP5637]

25. I hope all of these offenses are taken seriously and not just a slap on the wrist! n/t

[randome]

28. Someone was killed. You bet the offenses will be taken seriously.

Sure, it was one of the 'gang', but still, that will not be treated lightly.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]

[wcmagumba]

2. I agree but...

Apparently some of the remaining miscreants remain holed up at the refuge with vows to fight....knowing how "tough" they really are this is just blow hard talk but until the government has complete control of the various locations involved the end remains to be seen...

[Kennah]

4. Any links? I've read this too, but not seen anything official. n/t

[wcmagumba]

11. I haven't seen any official word.

I think the authorities are wisely silent but I read this link from KOS and saw a couple of bad videos the jerks in the refuge had posted asking for reinforcements and such...I can't find the video link but here is the other:

[link:http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/26/1475656/-Buddy-arrested-confirmation-militant-was-killed-others-reportedly-ready-for-a-fight-at-the-refuge|

[leftynyc]

32. The only thing those

reinforcements should see is an army of feds with long guns pointing at them if they try and come close. Cut off the terrorists, cut off the electricity and nothing goes in or out until they surrender. No more bullshit.

[onecaliberal]

53. There are blockades to every entrance of that place now. There will be no reinforcements.

[truegrit44]

7. Let's hope that now that their leaders are gone

that they may start turning on each other........... there will be a position to fill and hopefully a lot of them will posture up to try and fill it.

[Egnever]

10. There has been no communication out of the compound for hours now

I think this thing is over.

[snooper2]

42. New stream to start soon! Man child running it has been coined Dildo Dave by us commentators :)

[TheBlackAdder]

3. Like fleas on a dog, they live it up until the next bath. nt

[safeinOhio]

6. Leaders leave the compound

and travel 60 miles for more news coverage. Make an agreement to no guns. How dumb can they be?

[Kablooie]

8. I read that it was police that stopped them, not FBI.

They were in a car and the police pulled them over.

[Quixote1818]

9. I read it was a mix of FBI and State Police.

Will have to look for the link.

Found one:

Snip> Shots were fired after FBI agents, Oregon State troopers and other law enforcement agencies made the stop on US Highway 395.

http://katu.com/news/local/leader-of-oregon-occupation-ammon-bundy-three-others-arrested

[Egnever]

13. It's not over yet... convoy with armored vehicles heading to the ranch

https://twitter.com/C0d3fr0sty?lang=en&lang=en

[PufPuf23]

14. So far so good.

I will be interested to see what role Sheriff Palmer from Grant county played in today's events.

I saw a twitter report that he was at the LE roadblocks.

Hope the situation ends with no more violence ASAP.

[Bluenorthwest]

35. The second photo at this link shows Sheriff Palmer armed at at the roadblock....

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/militant_shot_and_killed_while.html#incart_maj-story-1

[PufPuf23]

40. Thank you. Good morning. nt

[KingCharlemagne]

16. The only, ONLY, reason those guys arent all dead is that their skins are white, not because the

FBI are so great at their jobs. We just saw white privilege acted out for us in all its glory. So stop blowing the FBI.

[linuxman]

17. If I could attach turbines to my eyes

We'd be energy independent.

[Lordquinton]

18. So much this

After decades of these people flaunting federal law one of them gets arrested, probably through the tons of pressure.

Oh, and a media blackout on a domestic terror situation. We'll see how things turn out too, see who gets released and just doesn't make their court dates and lives as an outlaw.

[underahedgerow]

20. Seriously? That's IT? That's what you take from this whole situation? White Privilege my azz.

This was only about the safety and security of all involved, from the townspeople, to the kids inside, to the many law enforcement officials, to the media.

FFS I really get tired of people trying so desperately to make this out to be a skin color thing, which it never, ever was. There is nothing to draw any comparison to in recent history here, so maybe staying on topic isn't a bad thing.

No offense of course is intended towards anyone of any skin color or lack thereof. Just tired of the attempted white privilege hijacking.

[KingCharlemagne]

27. oh, puh-leeze. if these guys had been Native American or black, they would all

be fucking dead.

the Bundy Brigands had the luxury, thanks to their white skins, of being taken alive.

[Bluenorthwest]

33. And yet the Native American occupation of Alcatraz lasted 19 months 18 with the power on and

lots of people coming and going, supply runs and press conferences. So you can type up your assertion but history does not agree with you entirely. Alcatraz if an island so cutting it off would have been far simpler than cutting off the refuge and yet 19 months.
That was Nixon administration, your assertion is that the Obama administration would have killed any minority protesters when Nixon didn't. I strongly disagree with you. History disagrees with you.

[KingCharlemagne]

34. Two words: Fred Hampton (RIP)

[Bluenorthwest]

36. Two more: Ruby Ridge. And you still have not addressed Alcatraz which is the most direct comparison

in terms of isolation and difficulty of intervention. If you want to discuss the actual full history we can, but you can't pick out bits and call that the history. Waco? Is that what you long for?

[KingCharlemagne]

38. I was a little boy at the time of Alcatraz, so cannot speak to any of its

particulars.

Speaking more generally, though, you're not going to seriously argue that the FBI during this time was race neutral and color blind? Since the demise of the Black Panthers and Pine Ridge, blacks and Native Americans have not been foolhardy enough to challenge law enforcement with threats of violence. I think we all know what would happen to them if they did. HINT: they would not be allowed the luxury of surrendering.

[tabasco]

49. There's this thing called the Internet now.

All kinds of info on there. It's really amazing. Try it out sometime.

[underahedgerow]

37. Absolutely not. The cops you're trying to compare this to aren't the same types of people that are

involved with this, from the law enforcement angle.

Cops gone rogue are independent actors, there isn't a conspiracy among all law enforcement officials in the USA to kill people of color.

Stay on topic.

[griloco]

22. two questions

How do you account for Ruby Ridge & Waco?
Have there been any incidents since Waco where the FBI has gone in guns-blazing?

[RWilliam]

19. agreed

By the way, I suspect the Oregon Governor was in frequent communications with the FBI and Obama and was told when she should start calling for it to end.
24


I was telling my wife this a couple days back because the logic did not add up to me. I figured that the law enforcement, FBI, ect. had a pretty good line of communication going, and Gov. Brown's plea was a decoy to make Bundy and crew think people were getting anxious. When in the meantime they were continuing to collect information about who was coming into town.

[randome]

29. I think that's very possible.

The remaining members of the 'gang' now know that if they leave the refuge, they stand a good chance of being arrested. Let's see how long they last without freedom of movement.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]

[ashling]

21. Assuming, of course, that it's over

The last I heard there are still crazies at the refuge and god Knows what other crazies will take up arms against the federal government

after all, got to love those 2nd Amendment remedies

[Hortensis]

23. Yes, but this ignominious failed "revolution"

has to have let some hot air out of their bag. Not charged it with new energy and outrage. In fact, most insurrectionist groups, like the Oath Keepers, did not support this action.

Coverage was mostly very unsympathetic and disrespectful -- when coverage existed. A lot of media declined to give the group the attention they wanted, especially on TV, although I never had trouble grabbing a quick new cartoon making fun of them.

My regret is that there is not more discussion of the encouragement people like the Kochs are giving wingnuts to deny the right and duty of our government to govern, not to mention their economic interest in getting their hands on more federal lands for profit.

Also of the role the Bundys' religion, Mormonism, plays in their acting out. Utah has a strong anti- public lands movement. It's not just about old doctrine from the 1800s -- the Mormon church's cattle/ag business today is huge.

[ashling]

41. Unfortunatley, the crazies don't know that it failed

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/berserk-militant-promises-bloodbath-as-feds-move-in-this-is-a-free-for-all-armageddon/

[Hortensis]

43. Like terrorists, they live in communities of people

who are not very, if at all, sympathetic to their sometimes hidden views. They'll learn that referring to this elicits smiles and contempt, from those who remember it at all, and that is the victory this time around -- no matter how they yammer on whatever forum they've found to air their views on because their neighbors won't listen.

[ashling]

46. I agree

my point is, however, that unfortunately this isn't over yet

[Hortensis]

47. Sorry I missed your point, Ashling.

Read it again. I did sort of just discount it as bravado and hot air, but also because people problems don't really go away or get fixed, they're always with us, they just shrink enough that most aren't aware or bothered. Hópefully that worked-up man won't get himself killed.

[ashling]

50. agree 100%

[Vinca]

24. Me, too. It's too bad someone died, but it was that person's choice.

[cwydro]

26. Well, it doesn't seem to be completely over at this point.

So I'll reserve judgement.

[Baitball Blogger]

30. They have earned my respect.

[Yo_Mama]

31. I do also. I think they handled this well. n/t

[DirkGently]

39. They're still in there.

They've apparently elected new leaders and so far are refusing orders to leave.

I was glad to see some action finally taken, but sorry the LaVoy person was shot. I assume he may have been making good on his vow not to be taken alive. It's disturbing these guys are so wound up about this idea they can or should pick up weapons and start making their own law.

What a sad, confused set of ideas to die for.

Hope the rest of the gang take the hint and come out peacefully to face the music.

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/fbi_tells_oregon_refuge_occupi.html#incart_maj-story-1

[TampaAnimusVortex]

44. Agreed. Calls for blood in the streets are over the top.

People need to chill out and feds work this as professionally as possible.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

45. I'm giving the Grant County Sherriff the benefit of the doubt

I suspect he was trying to start dialogue to end the standoff peacefully. If commuting the sentence of the older of the two prisoners would have ended this peacefully, I suspect something could have been worked out. When Bundy started talking about they'd leave when the Feds gave up all the land, I think it became clear to all that another strategy was in order.

[LiberalEsto]

48. Hey Agent Mike! Tell your buddies

Nice job!

[drray23]

51. I think they should have done it weeks ago

They only did now what everybody with a brain said should have been done weeks ago. That is, block the accesses and arrest them as they got out.

They delayed this action for too long. This allowed those RW nuts to terrorize the county, desecrate indian burial grounds, hack into federal computers, etc.. etc..

[Hoyt]

52. I'll give them credit, but giving abuser Koresh 51 days to surrender was hardly aggressive.

[Quixote1818]

54. I agree, not to mention they were abusing children

and they burned themselves up.