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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThrough the Looking Glass: Bar at the Folies- Bergere by Manet. Your interpretations, please.
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A Bar at the Folies-Bergere. 1881.The Courtauld Gallery. London
He is a painter, the true painter,who showed us how grand we are in our cravats and polished boots...
--Charles Baudelaire on Eduoard Manet
He was greater than we thought.
--Edgar Degas, at the funeral of Edouard Manet
Her name is Suzon.
She is the mysterious young woman at the bar of the famous circus-nightclub where the trendy monied class could go for their amusement. Her gaze has been declared by several art historians as more enigmatic than the Mona Lisas. But her gaze to me is one of being very tired on her job and she would rather not be there...and perhaps a lot more...
There has been much speculation that she is a victim of a very unjust social system that entraps women of lower classes into forced sexual availability for the men she encounters in her job. There is certainly enough suggestion here to believe that narrative, but no narrative should deny her the dignity of what her social class must be... and the dignity of her as a young woman in deep thought...perhaps worried about a sick child, or how she can possibly pay the months rent or perhaps fending off a demanding boss.
The locket is another mystery and we start to question whether she has a lover, perhaps lost, and is keeping a wisp of his hair. It is set off by the delicate lace collar and corsage that frame her flushed face so beautifully. But its secret -- if there is one -- is not for us to know...
In contrast to her silent gaze, what goes on behind her is gala entertainment and this nights extravaganza is a circus act. What we see are the legs and feet of a trapeze artist in the upper left of the canvas, who is poised to take off in her swing. The bars poster reveals more detail as to where we would be seated in this layout...
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Manets bar would be located where the words prix unique appear in the bottom foreground of the poster. And you can just barely make out the swinging trapezist in mid air a bit above and to the left of the mans top hat...
Dominating the top of the painting is a large, beautiful chandelier that the artist has managed to make glitter...one can only imagine being in such a room...we are seeing the mirrored one and the actual one in part above the other womans head. This is a huge hall, a pleasure palace full of silk hatted men and beautifully attired women.
In the balcony crowd a woman has her opera glasses at the ready, there is a young waiter costumed in a tricorn hat carrying a large tray of food, while a brightly lit woman in white with elegant tan gloves appears to be watching the show. The young woman tending bar looks at us. Behind her is a mirror. Is she supposed to be the woman whose back is to us and facing the man in a top hat at the extreme right? Or is it another woman -- seen plumper and more animated -- working the other side of the marble table? He seems to be getting into her space and looks rather ominous as he grips his walking stick. Is he stalking her?
A Bar at the Folies-Bergere has driven art historians to distraction with speculation about what is going on in this painting and what, if anything, it means. We are led to believe that we are viewing the young female bartender in front of a mirrored image and we are the spectator. But this cannot be because she is not in that image and neither are we. So from the start we are bewildered.
We look for these clues when we see Manets oil painted sketch for this work and it looks like we are looking at a very different scene because the model he paints is not Suzon. With her unnaturally yellow hair and weariness she looks older and more disillusioned -- there is no complexity to her that Suzons countenance brings.
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Put these these complexities aside for a moment, though. Manet has provided us with little moments in this marvelous painting. He has signed and dated it on the label of a bottle of what could be Provencal Bordeaux (the guess of my local wine expert who was thrilled with the picture and based his guess on the shape of the bottle and the wines color), there on her right.
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On her left Manet has devised a little still life composition of two flowers in a wine glass, oranges in a footed glass bowl and multi-hued bottles of creme de menthes, champagne, Rose, and English Bass ale. While it is a richly delivered bit of social history, there remains a sadness at the tender effort she was perhaps making with her little arrangement...
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Manet has his own way of making us gasp at the vulnerable, evanescent beauty of flowers...as you can see here, in this depiction of slowly fading blossoms...
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Art historians regard Manet as a bringer of Modernism; if so, Suzon is Modernisms Madonna with the sad eyes. Maybe we dont see her mirrored because she is personified as the one who delivers the message to us. It makes you wonder how Magritte, that teller of the modern age early in the next century, would understand Suzon.
A Bar at the Folies-Bergere was Manets last painting. Suzon may indeed be us, gazing upon that society and what modernism has brought to it . Perhaps his signing the painting on the wine bottle label is his sad realization that his art --indeed, all art -- had become yet another commodity that trades under a label. (A look at just about any days Art Section of the New York Times will inform you of the latest news in this development).
Bring your own interpretation to this wonderful painting...it invites your wonderment and your thoughts...
You have to hand it to Manet: he really took it to his own eras art community with his frankly bold nude, Olympia, the violent scene of Maximilians assassination, and a shocking depiction of a man who has just shot himself to death. He delivered some unwelcome messages to his art world about reality in presenting the day in which they and he lived.
Do you have a theory of A Bar at the Folies-Bergere?
patricia92243
(12,598 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)Warpy
(111,332 posts)The seats aren't filled, so it looks like she is just beginning her long night of pouring drinks and listening to paunchy merchants tell her how their wives don't understand them Her stays are tight and her feet already hurt and she wishes the night would get started so she'd be busy enough not to notice.
I keep focusing on the flowers in the wine glass. Are they an attempt to brighten up an otherwise sordid and boozy night? Or are they there to be sold as boutonieres for the men who forgot them? The glass is in an odd place, right where it will be knocked over and perhaps broken as the calls for alcohol become frequent. I'm leaning toward "up for sale," it was during the rise of the first batch of Robber Barons and everything and everyone was up for sale.
The frosted glass dish of satsumas was fairly typical, they were still a luxury item, but they'd have most likely been sold by people out in the crowd since real estate on the bar would have been restricted to alcohol.
This picture is compelling because she is all of us at one time or another, weary of the dailiness of it all.
The oil sketch is likely more true to life, the brassy blonde is well over the age when she'd have been attractive enough to sell her body for top dollar, so she's been relegated to barmaid. Bitter and cynical? You have no idea.
pa28
(6,145 posts)Brickbat
(19,339 posts)Her right eye betrays her sadness, and that makes her compassionate; her left eye shows her strength, which means don't fuck with her; her RBF shows that she's sick and tired of the come-ons, but that she knows she'll get them no matter what.
arendt
(5,078 posts)Now I need to forget that. What an insult. Wow.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)My friends and I all have it and use the phrase liberally. I think it's why men are always telling women to smile -- they can't stand to see a neutral or displeased face on a woman.
arendt
(5,078 posts)If women think it is an OK expression, then I will not be shocked or judgmental if I hear it in conversation. (I do still interact with 20-something folk. )
BTW - I agree that it's OK not to smile. People used to tell me to smile, and I learned to do so. But, I'm a guy, and I guess I looked angry and scowling.
Any way, culture marches on. Time and tide wait for no man. And all that...
arendt
(5,078 posts)The "Modernism's Madonna" certainly seems to apply.
But, for me, the painting is a much more compelling take on the times than any old black and white photo. What stands out to me is how modern and how antiquated the scene is at the same time. Modern in the sense that we still have bars/nightclubs and their high-end clientelle. Antiquated, not just in costume, but in the lack of any modern tech. All you see are people, wood, glass, and flowers.
I have always loved the Impressionists, and their technique - some of the pointillist stuff is 50 years ahead of its time.
But, I have never thought deeply about what they were trying to say, as opposed to how they were saying it. Your little essay has certainly opened that door for me. Too bad I have no skills at that sort of thinking. Mrs. arendt is the artistic one. I will show this to her, and perhaps let you know her reaction.
It's nice to bail out of the political trench warfare into something beautiful. In our age of rush, rush, reading something the length of your essay was almost contemplative.
Thank you.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)arendt
(5,078 posts)While photographers will take timeless pictures of ordinary people (like the famous ?Dorothea Lange? picture of the Depression-era mother), painters rarely put so much effort into the portrait of an anonymous, interchangable, lower class person - even when that person's face is memorable. They were paid by the rich and tended to paint the rich.
Darn it, now I'm going to pull out all my coffee table books of impressionism and waste an hour.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)and, of course, saves you...
hermetic
(8,310 posts)Both the painting and your descriptions. His work on the glass and bottles just blows me away. I've never seen this one before although I took Art Appreciation in college and have been to many famous museums.
My first thought upon seeing it was that I used to bar-keep and am quite sure I've have that same facial expression more than once. I also know a good bit about the Folies-Bergere and it certainly wasn't fun for everyone.
Thank you for this lovely post.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)I at first saw it as a mirrored image showing her back, but that does not make any sense with the male figure at the right edge.
I like your narrative for it though. It is a beautiful painting.
Glad to see you back. Hope you are better.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)this painting and how actually complex it is...
I am off and on better so I await the day I no longer have shingles virus. It's now past 3 months and it's getting old...
longship
(40,416 posts)And I wish you well!
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)so I raise a glass of wine to you as well...glad you could stop by!
longship
(40,416 posts)PufPuf23
(8,822 posts)The woman is sad at what could be and that is her back in the mirror.
Rather than a bright chandelier, the light that predominates is that of the two globes resembling full moons and an indistinct gloom except where the artist wants to attract attention; all women, feminine, or lunar.
The bartenderess is looking sturdily at a man's world with a wistful and longing female gaze.
With her corset, costume, and makeup her form is a pleasure to man in a scene made for man.
She is the spectator of the scene.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)that corseted figure fascinates me, too...it seems so uncomfortable, altho a younger woman would be less likely to squirm in it.
Manet caught that look in her eyes. He actually posed her in his studio after discovering her at the Bar. He included the rest of the scene behind her by sketches he made there...
Hekate
(90,779 posts)msongs
(67,438 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)interesting explanations as to her "sadness." She might just feel very tired...on her feet for a long time...
Oneironaut
(5,524 posts)their own insecurities and apply them to the relatable face in the painting. The truth is, everybody feels exploited, and everyone hates the lavish carelessness and snobbishness of the upper class. Not only is the face timeless - the idea is timeless. You could show this painting at any time in history, and people would still be able to relate to it.
What I'm saying is, she is you, me, the OP, and every human who has ever lived.
demmiblue
(36,879 posts)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Andr%C3%A9e
Suzon does have a resemblance to the woman (Ellen Andree) in Edgar Degas' L'Absinthe.
Manet's Parisienne Study of Ellen Andree (much different, I must say):
Ellen Andree also performed pantomime at the Folies Bergère.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)Last edited Sat Feb 13, 2016, 09:05 AM - Edit history (1)
but Suzon is her real name and I believe she and Ellen are not the same woman...
GreatCaesarsGhost
(8,585 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)GreatCaesarsGhost
(8,585 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)it was fun, wasn't it? Too bad a DUer, still here, ruined it by cheating...it was just bad form and it made me feel sad...
underpants
(182,873 posts)underpants
(182,873 posts)Hey! That's a detail!
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,363 posts)underpants
(182,873 posts)brer cat
(24,596 posts)The way the light hits her face, her cheek appears to be lifted as it would if smiling. We see the sad/weary face and the (probably) forced smile at the gentleman at the same time. Such would be her lot in life.
It is one to enjoy studying and speculating. Thanks, CTyankee.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)are we, the viewers, taking? Are we actually supposed to be seeing this from the man's perspective? Hmm...
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)I now see what Manet has accomplished, how we are completely drawn into the scene! Very clever. We must provide the narrative as well. He merely painted the scene. We for the moment live it. Our perspective is what matters!
I have renewed respect for the complexity of this painting. Thanks for making me look so carefully at all the details.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)did you ever do the Warhol post? I wish there was a way to bookmark members, because I really enjoy your art posts.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)and, sad to say, I lost a whole bunch of my art essays due to having too long a document. I called my computer guy and we tried to recover the rest of the document but gave up finally. Now I create a new document every 4 or so essays so one document on my computer does not become too lengthy...live and learn.
If I remember the title of the post I'll look it up on DU and send you the link...
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)I don't understand it, but always enjoy your essays
edhopper
(33,610 posts)bookmarked for later comment.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)Hekate
(90,779 posts)....shoulder. My iPad mini is not good with detail, but you are, and when I zero in and blow up portions, then I see much more.
In any case, I've known this picture forever, and always thought she was staring into the distance, lost in her own thoughts, alone with nothing to do at that very moment. Now I see this man reflected in the mirror, and he is gazing into her face.
Where is she? I'm sure he doesn't know.
Her clothing -- well, it's a fancy place, and she's dressed up for it, with her brooch/locket on a ribbon, a gold bracelet, a corsage of fresh flowers tucked into her bosom. Her bosom is not on display -- that says to me that even if she has to put up with sexual harassment as part of her job, her job is to be a bartender.
Thank you as always for making me see art closely -- the still life on our right, the signed wine label on the left, all the rest. What a delight.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)"detail of flowers and wine bottles" for instance and you will get what you want. I then copy it into the My Pictures folder for the essay so I can find it later using tinypic.com. when I want to post the essay.
7wo7rees
(5,128 posts)informative, the list just goes on!
Thank you.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)Wish I was there.
edhopper
(33,610 posts)Is it a reflection? It has to be, because we see the frame of the mirror at the bottom. But the girl's back should not be that far to the right, and doesn't align with the bottle reflections, and where is the man? We can only assume the man is our POV, and thus the man is the artists himself.(though not a self portrait) But she is not looking at us/Manet, she is staring of to her right. And the "point of interest" in that area is the women in white with tan gloves, What was going on in the barkeeps head might have been as much a mystery to Manet as it is for us.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)there are lots of speculative theories, as you might imagine and I have cited some of those here.
I, too, am fascinated with the woman in white and where she is looking. I thought she was just entranced with the show. the woman on the trapeze whose legs and feet are all we see (upper far left as we see it) but we do see the trapezist very faintly on the poster. It's a huge swing so this place must have been more circus than we get from the picture itself. So it might be that this woman is just amazed at the air acrobatics. The poster gives us a better perspective. I cannot tell you how long and hard I studied it.
and yes, I considered your suggestion that the man is the artist himself but it didn't seem correct and he is fixated on her and gripping a walking stick. I used a magnifier and Googled lots of details from this painting and I think the man looks dangerous...just a woman's perspective here...
Manet might have thought he would paint the reflection of the girl and the man in his oil sketch and then changed his thinking about the painting. Maybe he was deliberately trying to make it more "interesting" by making us wonder...
Lars39
(26,110 posts)was that someone had killed themselves.
The eyes seem to be drawn upward from the lady in white, to the light, to the legs.
The legs seem to add a 'quiet desperation' to the scene.
Employment options scarce for women then...how long would she keep her position as she ages? Or falls even further down the path from respectability by becoming pregnant from some smooth talker?
If she marries a customer she could be in the audience like the woman in white.
If not, 'the legs' option?
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)the rest of her body is out of view but it implies she's getting ready to swing across the hall as the poster references (very difficult to see, tho).
Lars39
(26,110 posts)of someone who has hanged themself.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)OMG, dark reference indeed...
Sorry for getting all morbid, but it was the first thing connecting in my mind.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)with no contraceptive options in that time, women were subject to lots of unwanted pregnancies.
Lars39
(26,110 posts)edhopper
(33,610 posts)made some artistic choices that he thought made the painting better, even though they were technically 'wrong'.
I wonder if he had a clear narrative, or was just going with what visually was interesting?
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)incidently, my research says that he painted Suzon in his studio posed with a makeshift "bar." He went to the Folies-Bergere to sketch out the rest. Clearly, something happened on the way to creating this work of art...
edhopper
(33,610 posts)paintings can take on a life of their own.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)across her body. Suzon has opened her arms and leans slightly forward to rest her hands on the table. I think there must have been some change of thought as Manet went forward with it.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)The Tempest:
You do look, my son, in a moved sort,
As if you were dismayed. Be cheerful, sir.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors,
As I foretold you, were all spirits and
Are melted into air, into thin air.
And, like the baseless fabric of this vision,
The cloud-cappd towers, the gorgeous palaces,
The solemn temples, the great globe itself,
Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve
And, like this insubstantial pageant faded,
Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff
As dreams are made on, and our little life
Is rounded with a sleep.
That's what she's thinking, or what Manet is thinking.....an insubstantial pageant fading into dream....
The table is set. In The Tempest, this speech is given while festivities are being prepared. The Magician says good bye and vanishes. Leaves not a rack behind.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)it (and Miranda) enormously. We also studied King Lear and what a magnificent play that is...
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Bookmarked and valued.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)so much. But this one was a duzy to research...there's got to be a gazillion critical pieces to be found on the Internet. But it sure made for a fun winter project!
Thank you for your kind thoughts. I'm so glad you enjoyed it...
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)It is such a great, great painting.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)I was entranced with that and went all the way to Los Angeles to see it on tour...Google it and the background story about her tragic involvement with the artist who was besotted by her...
panader0
(25,816 posts)Thanks again CT--I really enjoy your posts.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)Monk06
(7,675 posts)The studio is the SFU downtown studio where I studied with him for three years form 1983-1986
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picture_for_Women
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)obvioulsy Manet has inspired many other artists...
Monk06
(7,675 posts)our seniour class
He knows that painting very well
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)London in 2013 because I spent an entire day in the National Gallery and ran out of time. I wanted to go back this past year for a short visit to those museums as air fares got slashed. But I couldn't find an art buddy to go with. Oh well...
Monk06
(7,675 posts)She could give you a tour if you can cover her expenses from Dublin
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)assume she was engaged with him, but her face -to me- shows one of those distracted moments where you forget to play the role you;re supposed to. Like she should look jovial and enthusiastic, but the bar for her is a different experience from the patron's. He mask has slipped.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)her heart and mind are elsewhere, and he somehow can't see it.
Funny I never noticed the Bass ales before! Good stuff, and another great post. Let's do a museum show this Spring.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)Now trying to overcome my shingles attack which doesn't want to go away and now my hands shaking like a leaf....we'll see and I'm the first one to say "I'm in!"
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)have you done any searching for a good Yahoo shingles group? I know they sound archaic, but I have found some great cat health ideas and support that saved my kitty's life. And the VW group was able to immediately diagnose and solve chronic problems that boggled my mechanics- twice! It is a strange little corner of the net, but they seem to have active groups for everything.
Hoping for a speedy recovery- and a spring museum walk for us.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)pills from 4 to 2 per day due to tapering off. This may be a side effect. I am going to wait and see. I will talk to my neuro doc about the shaking hands... but this morning I felt shakier than usual...tonight I feel more like myself and no shaky hands...
We'll have to figure out a good recognition device to find each other but other than that, no problem! So nice to find a like minded museum buddy!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)I hope it doesn't sound trite comparing it to my cat, but she had chronic bowel issues and I got a lot of helpful information- things that ultimately helped her symptoms more than the vet did.
I quickly became well versed in newest treatment options, foods and natural supplements, etc. I think it made my veterinarian work a little harder, knowing I was also on the case. Anyway, it seems to be a great place for crowd sourcing info. Google has them too, but usually Yahoo has bigger and more recently active groups.
Recognition device- smart phone? Or I can send you my phone number.
Feel better my friend!
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)...a more foreboding, demimondaine scenario; particularly when contemplating the dark images and endless supply of potential customers as they seemed to (menacingly) appear in the mirror, in all of their dark intent and haberdashery:
Then, I looked further and reexamined the perspective and potential social mores of the time...
The conclusion that I came to was one of high society in a typical weekend opera or theater setting, during intermission.
The horseshoe balcony of the Folies Bergere is reflected in the mirror behind Suzon. Not only that, but the opposite side of the balcony also appears to have the same mirror or mirror(s) on its wall, showing reflections ad infinitum of the chandeliers and patrons; which serve to draw you into Manet's interpretation.
My first inclination was to assume that the people in the background were bellied up to the bar. As I considered it further, and from a perspective-first vantage point, I began to realize that the mirror behind Suzon reflected a mirror image of the U-shaped balcony at Folies Bergere, which was the local theater/opera in 1881 France.
Not to be confused with the Moulin Rouge, (a well know debaucherous nightclub,) Folies Bergere was the local opera hall. It consistently catered to a higher class of clientele than did the Moulin Rouge.
If you'll notice, the cleavage in both the final painting and the oil sketch, blur the lines between whether or not the women are displaying skin or fabric. I think Manet meant to confuse the interpretation but if you'll notice, the color of the bosom/bodice on both women is lighter and almost white with implied lace, in comparison to the skin color above the choker/necklace line.
And, yeah, she looks a little bored with her station in life as a worker in the service industry but wouldn't that attitude hold true no matter the century?
I think Manet was intentionally blurring the lines between high society and the demimonde of 1880s Paris.
As a side note, I see Manet's oil sketch as a tip of the hat to Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec, a well known artist and famous patron of the Moulin Rouge at that time.
Anyway, what a magnificent puzzle you have chosen to present to the hoi polloi of DU, such as myself...
Thank you, CTyankee, for another excellent and thought provoking art challenge.
TYY
PS--->> For the record, the curiously 'skewed' perspective of Manet's painting has (supposedly) been recreated to show the exact perspective as painted by Manet. Maybe the mirror was at a slight angle?...
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)I have no idea about the angle of the mirror.
I've read so many pieces of art research for this painting it is amazing. Lots to report what critics think is going on. It's a litle crazy, tho.
Well, I thought everyone would get a charge out of this week's essay...it certainly is a big challenge to everyone to figure it all out...
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)...is my own and from nothing that I've read. I first opened your OP this morning, around 8 hours ago. It took me until now to pen a response, as opposed to typing a knee jerk reply as I was initially inclined to do.
Before today, I had never seen this painting by Manet. I hope you can appreciate the thought process that went into giving you an honest and unbiased appraisal of this work.
TYY
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)suffragette
(12,232 posts)Really glad I was able to see this at the Courtauld.
Hope you are feeling better.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)thanks also for the nice words of support...this shingles thing keeps coming back, today it was in force. I was hoping it would be gone soon but I know now I have to call my neuro doc tomorrow...this ain't good...
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)I never saw that the image in the rear was not the mirror image of the lady in front. I love the Impressionist period, but I cannot totally put my finger on why. Maybe my eye sees it, but the brain hasn't caught up. I need to study more. Thank you.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)is the image of where the young beauty may be in 20 years. Or, maybe, beer is affecting my thinking and I am being a dumb ass.
On edit: I expand on my crazy thought in the next post.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)is a combination of two arts- visual and literary. In 1984, Winston is gazing on a grandmother pegging up diapers on a clothes line. She is coarse looking and thick. He talks about how the prole women have a fleeting moment of beauty, but because of childbirth and general hardness and coarseness of life, the outer beauty fades. But, even after the hard life the woman has lived, she is singing in the courtyard. Life hasn't crushed her. He declares her beautiful because of this.
On edit: a poor woman in the time frame of this painting might share a similar fate.