General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDonald Trump just flung this insane rant at Pope Francis — and maybe just lost the presidency
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/02/donald-trump-just-flung-this-insane-rant-at-pope-francis-and-probably-lost-the-presidency/If and when the Vatican is attacked by ISIS, which as everyone knows is ISISs ultimate trophy, I can promise you that the Pope would have only wished and prayed that Donald Trump would have been President because this would not have happened, a statement on his website reads. ISIS would have been eradicated unlike what is happening now with our all talk, no action politicians.
Pope Francis had criticized Trumps rhetoric earlier today while finishing up his trip through Mexico, saying that, A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not of building bridges, is not Christian. This is not the gospel....
For a religious leader to question a persons faith is disgraceful, he wrote. I am proud to be a Christian and as President I will not allow Christianity to be consistently attacked and weakened, unlike what is happening now, with our current President. No leader, especially a religious leader, should have the right to question another mans religion or faith. They are using the Pope as a pawn and they should be ashamed of themselves for doing so, especially when so many lives are involved and when illegal immigration is so rampant.
kimbutgar
(21,210 posts)I fear trumpster is unstoppable now. He could kill a baby on live tv and his brain dead zombie supporters will cheer him on.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)However, the entire country is not polarized one way or another. Presidential elections are decided by those in the middle and it's hard to imagine Trump isn't continuing to alienate those people.
Volaris
(10,274 posts)The subliminal message is
I'm a real Christian, (see: non-catholic WASP) just like you all who currently support Ted Cruz. You should probably stop doing that because Mexico and ISIS and Mexican ISIS and reasons and stuff.
It deepens his support, but won't broaden it. Let them get support so deep that they can't come up for air in the General. Let them drown themselves, I say.
Renew Deal
(81,877 posts)47of74
(18,470 posts)...were singing a very different tune 'bout listening to the Pope back when it was JP II or Benny in charge.
Now we have Francis and these same people go on about how he's a fake Pope and so on. All these people who if you even looked at a picture of JP II or Benny funny started going on about how you weren't Christian attack Francis on a regular basis.
phantom power
(25,966 posts)People continue to totally mis-understand conservative American voters.
Renew Deal
(81,877 posts)And many of those group are hostile.
MrWendel
(1,881 posts)there is a reason he's being called the "Teflon Don".
Backwoodsrider
(764 posts)Probably will be applauded for going against the church.
And I sure hope the Dems challenger is Trump instead of Cruz or Robio.... just saying
Maeve
(42,288 posts)Like Der Trumpster never questioned Obama...like religious leaders aren't EXACTLY the ones who get to define their faith... It's probably in Two Corinthians, Donny-Boy!
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)Clerics do not have the same status in Protestant churches as they do in the Catholic church.
Did Trump ever directly question Obama's faith? He did not correct an audience member, but they campaign later said that he did not hear the exchange.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/trump-supporter-obama-muslim-mystery
Maeve
(42,288 posts)I've known (or known of) dozens of ministers who declared someone was "no Christian" for saying/doing something. And many who weren't clrics of any shape or form making such claims--usually for violating their own church's rules...back when I was a kid, our church taught that Christians should play cards (not that that stopped folks from going to euchre parties....)
As for questioning Obama's faith--http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/18/politics/trump-obama-muslim-birther/
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)I've heard of churches that thought playing cards was just as bad as dancing. I assume they were the really right wing bible bangers like Pentecostals. Makeup is bad, cutting your hair as a woman is bad (No way in hell I would go along with that, I have too much hair to deal with it long), long sleeves, long dresses, no slacks, all that unworkable stuff.
None of these people have read their Bible, specifically a couple of verses: "Judge not, lest ye be judged." and "As you did it unto them, so also you did it unto Me."
Maeve
(42,288 posts)Created when United Evangelicals joined with United Brethren...later joined with United Methodists and that was the end of the ban on cards!
More "brighten the corner where you are" than "sinners in the hands of an angry God", but I was the type to actually read the by-laws and such...
dembotoz
(16,844 posts)they were quirky and still what i consider my home church.
my congregation which made me proud, was what would be considered lefty as all get out when it came to social justice.
don't know about other congregations but damn...mine made me what i am today...that and my mom
Maeve
(42,288 posts)Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)Basically the farthest left you get where I am is the UCC, United Church of Christ, known as Congregationalists, who trace their ancestry to the Pilgrims. In Houston they have the only New England Meeting House in the state. Big clear windows so you can see the trees outside, no stained glass, pews on three sides so everyone can see everyone else. A raised round pulpit with a canopy over it kind of like old Anglican churches.
If you get any further left from the Congregationalists, you're probably a Unitarian-Universalist. I consider the UCC the jumping-off point of Christianity. The minister at First UCC in Houston is good friends with the people at First UU and has occasionally preached there. The difference being that UUs are into social justice and activism but are not explicitly Christian. Usually they are atheists, agnostics, questioning, and pagan.
Both the UCC and the UUs are New England denoms so not very popular in the South. UU headquarters are on Beacon Street in Boston.
dembotoz
(16,844 posts)if i remember Pennsylvania then went west
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)malaise
(269,187 posts)The Vatican is a state
imanamerican63
(13,817 posts)Wonder who was the idiot that wrote this for the idiot to say it out loud?
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)Trump's world view.
I thought it was wrong for the Catholic church to deny John Kerry Holy Communion.
If ISIS had the capability they would attack the Vatican (just like the rabid dogs would attack almost anyone).
I don't think this response hurts him. If anything it will help him. If you have already signed up with Trump and are a loyal Catholic, nothing in what Trump said is going to change that opinion. Lots of practicing Catholics show respect to the man and position of Pope, but do not accept all of the teachings of the Catholic faith (in particular birth control and to a lesser extent abortion).
0rganism
(23,971 posts)he can use this to make a play for some of Cruz's anti-Catholic evangelical voters.
it will bite his ass big time in the general.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Preposterous. I wonder if any of Trump's good friends in the popular media will ask him about that?
herding cats
(19,568 posts)It's worth noting the pontiff addressed Congress last year and spoke of this very thing.
"Our world is facing a refugee crisis of a magnitude not seen since the Second World War. This presents us with great challenges and many hard decisions. On this continent, too, thousands of persons are led to travel north in search of a better life for themselves and for their loved ones, in search of greater opportunities. Is this not what we want for our own children? ... Let us remember the Golden Rule: 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'. ... The yardstick we use for others will be the yardstick which time will use for us."
His reference to the Golden Rule was Francis' biggest applause line. Members of Congress didn't even let him get out the rule itself before giving him a standing ovation.
http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/09/24/443081898/the-10-most-political-moments-in-pope-francis-address-to-congress
Which went over about as expected with the RW.
Conservatives Trash The Pope After His Speech To Congress
It'll be interesting to see how this plays out with Trumps fans, but I'm not willing to bet my money it will generate any substantial blow back within his fan base.
What it could do is create more of a tool for the other candidates to use to make themselves stand out. Rubio will use it to make him seem more appealing, but Cruz already took the Pope on over the death penalty, so not sure he'll get as much mileage out of it as Rubio stands to.
pampango
(24,692 posts)"We, the people of this continent, are not fearful of foreigners, because most of us were once foreigners. I say this to you as the son of immigrants, knowing that so many of you are also descended from immigrants."
Excellent post, herding cats.
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)How about crucifixion? Crown of thorns? Breaking the kneecaps? Would that make him proud enough?
What would Jesus say? 'Turn those screws, Don! Tighter...tighter! Now go for the genitals. Twist 'em like this. Now put this wire to 'em. Hey I like this modern world--such interesting new ways to make people worship me!'
We seem to have politicians speaking directly from Satan's 9th Circle.
-----------------------------------------
In Dantes Inferno, Satan is portrayed as a giant demon, frozen mid-breast in ice at the center of Hell. Satan has three faces and a pair of bat-like wings affixed under each chin. As Satan beats his wings, he creates a cold wind which continues to freeze the ice surrounding him, and the other sinners in the Ninth Circle. The winds he creates are felt throughout the other circles of Hell. Each of his three mouths chews on Judas, Brutus, and Cassius. Scholars consider Satan to be a once splendid being (indeed the most perfect of Gods creatures) from whom all personality has now drained away. [1] Satan, also known as Lucifer, was formerly the Angel of Light and once tried to usurp the power of God. As punishment, God banishes Satan out of Heaven to an eternity in Hell as the ultimate sinner. Dante illustrates a less powerful Satan than most standard depictions; he is slobbering, wordless, and receives the same punishments in Hell as the rest of the sinners. In the text, Dante vividly illustrates Satans grotesque physical attributes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dante%27s_Satan
Gotta love those creative Italians!
book_worm
(15,951 posts)I wouldn't put it past him to run as an Indie if he isn't the GOP nominee--he probably believes he would have a better chance of winning if votes are divided.
CommonSenseDemocrat
(377 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)including Francis, is the antichrist. They might have had the beginnings of an argument with Benny the Rat.
eleny
(46,166 posts)Mark my words. His remarks amounted to just about saying stfu and myofb. The result will be lost votes.
There is no cardinal or bishop who wants to land in Catholic Siberia - wherever that's located. So those guys will keep their lips buttoned if they're "friends" of Trump. I have no doubt that this pope will remind the wiseguys in that bunch who controls their assignments and standing in the church.
No matter how things go with this issue I can hardly wait for the political ads. They ought to be priceless. There were so many diplomatic ways for Trump to have handled this and he decided to go for the jugular. When it comes to followers Pope Francis outnumbers The D. I'm now on walk-back watch.
47of74
(18,470 posts)To be honest there will be those Catholics where he just has to make the correct noises about abortion and gay marriage and they'll vote for Der Trumpenfuehrer.
eleny
(46,166 posts)But I know what you mean about the general election.
He won't lose his zombie followers in the evangelical crowd. But I can easily see many, many RC catholics turning their backs. You know how it is - I can diss my family but you better not. Like I said, I can hardly wait for the ads.
Take care!
spanone
(135,886 posts)fuckatrump
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,199 posts)It had it coming. Trump 2016!
Person 2713
(3,263 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)That's how these racist scenarios roll these days.
elleng
(131,143 posts)'Interesting' to see what happens with cruz (not eligible to serve as Potus,) rubio, and kasich.
randys1
(16,286 posts)a 3rd party run, with the goal of destroying the GOP ability to win.
All part of the plan, and I wish someone would reward me when it comes to fruition, I mean I did call it even before Rachel did.
pansypoo53219
(20,997 posts)Mike Nelson
(9,968 posts)...gain Trump more Republican supporters.
2naSalit
(86,804 posts)those cads who were just run off the Malheur.
Matrosov
(1,098 posts)Many right wingers think Pope Francis is too liberal and is inconsistent with traditional Catholic teachings. I've seen them call him things like Pope Guevara, Pope Marx, the Commie Pope, etc.
Trump and the Pope trading words will only strengthen the support for Trump.
louis-t
(23,297 posts)They hear what they want to hear.
TBF
(32,102 posts)in this country (maybe too young?). You don't have to go back all that far to the decades in which Catholics were treated like crap in this country. I would expect nothing less from Herr Trump.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)I was little, but the Southern Baptists raised hell about John F. Kennedy being a Boston Irish Catholic. The Southern Baptists had their convention in Houston, and I believe JFK spoke to them. They just KNEW that if John F. Kennedy was elected, Washington would turn into Vatican City and the Pope would be running the country. They made fools of themselves, as usual.
It didn't happen. JFK made a very good speech about separation of church and state.
In some ways I have a lot more respect for Catholics, in spite of their horrible doctrines, than I do Protestants. I respect the beautiful art, architecture and music created for Catholic patrons by great artists and composers, and I see a lot more visual imagery and imagination. For example, the idea of patron saints you can pray to for certain things, the intercession of Mary, which is reminiscent of the Mother Goddess, and things like that. Their iconography is complex instead of Protestant (images are bad).
I like music in Latin which you now only hear in a concert hall or on a recording, and not in church.
I see Protestantism as full of boring hymns, a lack of visual imagery (graven images and those "idol-worshiping Papists" are bad), and a general lack of imagination at all. Generally a no-fun zone is enforced. Very much Northern European instead of Southern European Latin countries. Two different cultures.
TBF
(32,102 posts)I grew up in the midwest where being Lutheran or Methodist was standard fare (and the Methodists sometimes looked down on for dancing, etc). Smaller amounts of other protestant churches. Actually quite a few Catholics as well with Polish immigrants etc. I wasn't born until the mid 60's so I certainly didn't see the worst of it. But it was pretty standard for folks to make stereotypical statements such as "The Jews, you know, they blah blah blah" - they would make these assertions in conversation as if to impart known information and it was only natural to stereotype entire groups of people. Of course in this day and age we may feel more superior but we can see with the racism towards Obama and especially the Trump candidacy that it really is not far under the surface at all.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)RichGirl
(4,119 posts)African Americans
Mexicans
Muslims
Catholics
People with IQs over 50
jpak
(41,760 posts)yup
meow2u3
(24,774 posts)briv1016
(1,570 posts)brooklynite
(94,745 posts)South Carolina isn't Catholic.
saltpoint
(50,986 posts)facts of any variety or subject, so I'm not sure he loses ground with them.
My hope is that there will be a dwindling number of such voters and by the time the Pukes' convention rolls around in Cleveland this summer, Trump will arrive much the worse for the wear and have no real ground to stand on.
Trump isn't required to follow Christian tenets if he doesn't want to. Hard to picture him jamming his ego and his wallet through a needle's eye, in any case. Francis captioned the picture in such a way that many voters will get his (Francis') message and question Trump's.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)So some random woman on a train in San Jose > the repuke frontrunner.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Trumps crowd does not believe Catholics are Christians, so there you go.