In defense of grave dancing

[n2doc]

It’s true that Scalia was a human being, but I still refuse to mourn a-holes like him politely
When a public figure we loathe dies, we're expected to observe a certain level of decorum. Here's why that's wrong
by KATIE HALPER


Like many people, I found out about the death of Antonin Scalia through social media, a Facebook chat to be specific. “DUDE! Scalia may be dead,” my friend messaged me.” After a few minutes of silence, my friend returned, in all caps, once again, to proclaim, “HE’S DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

While Scalia’s unexpected death provoked a pseudo-constitutional crisis among the right wing, it provoked an existential crisis in me. I felt simultaneously happy, relieved, hopeful and guilty. He’s someone’s father! Someone’s husband! RBG’s bestie and opera partner! Even worse than what I felt was what I wanted to do! “OMG!” I typed to my friend. “Would a listicle of Scalia’s Worst Quotes be the worst?” Ironically enough, my friend’s verdict was Scalian; swift, punishing and punctuated with hyperbole and exclamation points: “NO! YOU MUST DO IT!” F&*( DECORUM!”

A woman of checks and balances, I sought counsel from other sources via other means of communication. I skyped an editor to ask for her ruling on the issue. Her judgment was Kennedyian and moderate: She urged me to wait 24 hours, reminding me that “dancing on people’s grave [was] not a good look.” When I texted another friend, a journalist, he concurred with the editor, writing, “I wouldn’t celebrate it.”

The majority, it seemed, had ruled. It would be in poor taste and bad judgment, an ethical breach, to openly rejoice about Scalia’s death.

I had no grounds for appeal. The decision was final… or so it seemed.


much more

http://www.salon.com/2016/02/19/in_defense_of_grave_dancing_its_true_that_scalia_was_a_human_being_but_i_still_refuse_to_mourn_a_holes_like_him_politely/

[Jester Messiah]

1. I'm not a grave-dancer

More of a grave-pisser.

[katmondoo]

3. Well I danced then as a Catholic I asked for forgiveness

I was worried about the Planned Parenthood decision. Happy he won't be around for this one.

[MynameisBlarney]

2. Agreed.

People like him almost make wish there really was a hell.

[libtodeath]

4. I dont cry for traitors or criminals

he was both.

[merrily]

5. Scalia is a public figure-and not just by virtue of the position he held. He went out of his way

to seek attention, to be controversial, etc. All SCOTUS Justices do not do that.



(For those who are not fluent in Italian, the "chin flick" means "fsck you.&quot

So, there is a rationale. However, there are ways and ways to grave dance. Also reasons and reasons to grave dance.

And, when one grave dances, one should, I think, remember that the person can do no more harm and the person can no longer defend themselves. Ever.

Waiting until the body is cold should be considered. I remember when King of CNN began with Chappaquiddick practically while the priest was packing up his holy oil after giving Ted Kennedy last rites. Spent a lot of time on that and never mentioned things like the many health care bills Ted Kennedy wrote and got passed.

That's my personal opinion, anyway. I understand the other side. I also understand there is a lot emotion around many of the things Scalia said and did. Heaven knows, I had emotional reactions to reading a lot of his opinions.

The most I can recall doing on a thread about the death of a public figure I dislked is posting a dot in the subject line and nothing else.

Now, the above is about public figures, not about a DUer. Some of the crap that gets posted about DUers who get banned or post a good bye thread gets me nauseated. Literally.

[MineralMan]

6. When a person I regard as evil dies,

I say nothing, generally. That person can no longer do evil. That is sufficient for me. That person no longer lives. The past cannot be undone. It is enough that the person is gone, at least for me. I see no benefit to dancing on anyone's grave.

[Johonny]

21. But the future can be undone hence people's grave dancing.

Scalia is not dead so long as his Supreme Court decisions remain intact. Thus, I don't see that it is enough for me to just say he is dead lets move on. It is important to remember that Scalia was a vile human being whose capacity to hurt humanity survives long after his death unless we act. I see no reason to point out Scalia was wrong on many of his most important decisions in life, these decisions effect me, I dislike him personally for this, and I am glad he is gone because only with his passing can there be hope of fixing what Scalia had done in life. The past is done, but I have a future ahead of me and I want it free of Scalia's brand of justice. I only get that if I stay vocal and denounce the man for what he's done to my future.

[Octafish]

7. Scalia thought it was OK for government to execute innocent people, if the paperwork's in order.

What kind of dancing is that?

[Paladin]

8. From Katie Halper's superb "Salon" article:

"When tyrants tremble, sick with fear,
And hear their death-knell ringing,
When friends rejoice both far and near,
How can I keep from singing?"


(From an old Baptist/Quaker hymn)

[malthaussen]

9. I don't think he should be dignified with grave-dancing.

He's dead. I'm glad. I feel about the same amount of vindictiveness as I would if I killed a fly who was annoying me. (I'd make a terrible Buddhist) At least the fly isn't in a position where he can injure millions of people by virtue of his actions. That threat is removed, not that there aren't many Scalias out there to take his place.

-- Mal

[Whiskeytide]

10. I think you can be glad that...

... someone has been removed from a position where they had the ability to do harm, and perhaps even celebrate that fact to some extent, without necessarily rejoicing in that person's death. His death was merely the means by which he was removed from his position.

I'm not happy he's dead. But I am happy he's no longer on the Court.

[NV Whino]

11. Don't care. He's gone. I'm glad.

Call it whatever you wish.

[Bettie]

12. It is possible

to feel sad for those who loved him and saw a different side of him and still realize and say that the world is a better place without him in it.

Is that grave dancing? I don't know, but I do understand that there are people who genuinely mourn him and for them, I have sympathy.

As far as I can tell though, on balance, he was a loathsome individual and the world is indeed a better place without him.

[Person 2713]

13. No one gets down on the Munchkins in W of Oz when they celebrate

[hedda_foil]

16. Damn, you, person, you beat me to it! I'm meltiiiiiiiiinnnnnggggggg

[whatthehey]

14. Nobody has ever explained satisfactorily WHY these cultural taboos are relevant

This "speak no ill of the dead" norm has no more objective basis than saying "bless you" when someone sneezes, and yet it has an astonishing cultural reinforcement in our society.

Why?

Insulting the dead cannot hurt their feelings. It could possibly do so for family and friends, but insulting the living, which is not just non-taboo but encouraged in hoi polloi is going to do exactly the same. Anybody who dearly loved Scalia is not going to magically move from being ok with him being called a vicious bigoted theocratic asshole last week to being wounded to the core this week. They are either people who care about their relatives/friends in the public eye being insulted or they are not. That core personality trait doesn't toggle with a death certificate, so the silliness about "respect for the family" is bullshit. If we wanted to spare the poutative feelings of Scalia's family on the offchance they both know and give a shit about DU opinions, we should have avoided telling the truth about his vileness from day 1. We didn't.

Scalia is not herre to defend himself? Another BS irrelevancy. Did he ever defend himself from DU attacks in life, or even give the slightest inclination he cared to or even was aware of them? Not for an instant. Even if DU were more socially powerful, and even if Scalia were as obssessively thin-skinned as, say, Trump, who does routinely respond to media insults, remember that Trump does so to protect his celebrity reputation so he can leverage that for his own purposes. It would be laughable to suggest that someone who behaves as he does has a genuine personal desire to be uniformly admired and loved. Those purposes end with death. Scalia never cared in life. He cannot by definition care in death.

It's bad karma? Well forgeting for a moment the woo-woo mythic basis of karma as a concept, let's pretend it does exist. Why does insulting a dead man result in worse karma than insulting a live one (I have not read every archive but I'd be surprised, greatly, to see widespread admonitions on DU about dissing a living Scalia)? The harm as covered above is less, and since karma is supposed to deal in analogous responses to bad acts, surely all it would return to grave dancers is for them to be insulted post mortem. And who but a few sad spiritualism apologists could give a crap about that?

I suspect that as in the sneezing example it's all down at the root to a silly primitive religio-superstition nobody would admit to crediting these days, and yet 99% still perpetuate the resulting taboo. Probably instead of thinking the devil can possess you when a sneeze opens up an entrance for him, the idea is that saying Scalia was a nasty mofo after death, however accurate, may weigh upon the purgatorial delay for his soul, just like saying mass for him is supposed to alleviate it.

Ezcept if that's the cause and the case, Purgatory is the least of his worries.

[mountain grammy]

15. I'll grave dance. I've been told, here on DU

That I'll have to live with my hate... But there's no hate here, just sheer joy that he's gone. If I wasn't an atheist I'd call it divine intervention.

[dembotoz]

17. a worthwhile goal of mine is that when i die, teabaggers feel compelled to dance on my grave

that would mean i did good

there are assholes on the right that also deserve this honor

the bigot anto is one of them

[gratuitous]

19. Indeed

At the opposite end, Justice Scalia often went out of his way to antagonize people harmed by his judicial decisions, ridicule them, and celebrated the fact that there was nothing anyone could do about it. He similarly reveled in his indulgence of conflicts of interest (e.g., going hunting with Vice President Cheney while Cheney had a case pending on the Supreme Court docket, or the final junket of his life in Texas), knowing that the only authority who could call him on it was himself.

When he advanced the legal and unappealable conclusion that the actual innocence of a person would not save them from a death penalty, he betrayed no regret over a flawed system that could reach such a conclusion. Instead, he seemed more annoyed that an innocent person would bother him with such a nagging argument: Go to your death quietly, even if you got railroaded, Scalia seemed to say. It's not my fault you got screwed, and I don't plan to do anything about it.

It would be unseemly not to offer Scalia approbation upon the event of his death (which was neither a surprise nor untimely, merely sudden, for reasons Scalia himself kept back from the public).

[UTUSN]

18. I've got Jerry SPRINGER (great Dem and gentleman) on the t.v. during Fat Tony's memorial service n/t

[KamaAina]

20. I joined the Grave Dancers' Union, I had to file