Tue May 3, 2016, 11:09 AM

Jeebo (1,736 posts)

Guns, what are they good for?

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Omaha Steve (a host of the General Discussion forum).

I am a 66-year-old Southern white male who has no interest in guns. I don't understand what these gun nuts see in the damn things. What are they good for? The only thing you can use them for is to shoot somebody. There's target practice, but that's not a use, it's just practice. There's self-defense, but in my 66 years on the planet there has not been one single time when I ever had need of a gun for that purpose. Shucks, if I had one, I'd be much more likely to accidentally shoot myself or somebody else. (My mother had two of her siblings killed in domestic gun accidents, one of them when she was a little girl and another one before she was even born.) You can go hunting, but that has no appeal for me. I have no desire to shoot critters and make them suffer and die, and I frankly wonder about the mentality of people who like to do things like that. So what the hell are guns good for? The damn things are totally useless, it seems to me. And the way these guns nuts practically worship the things is frankly perplexing to me. -- Ron

P.S. -- If this looks familiar to you, it's because I posted it about three weeks ago on Thom Hartmann's site.

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40 replies	Author	Time	Post
Guns, what are they good for? (Original post)	Jeebo	May 2016	OP
My house has never burned down but I'm still glad the fire department is around	TipTok	May 2016	#1
My guess is you don't carry a defibrillator -- much more likely to need that, but not empowering	Hoyt	May 2016	#3
If I had one that fit conveniently in my pocket or in my truck I might...	TipTok	May 2016	#12
Being prepared to shoot someone is wrong, sorry.	Hoyt	May 2016	#19
Sorry for being wrong?	TipTok	May 2016	#21
One does not prepare to shoot someone....	CompanyFirstSergeant	May 2016	#22
+1	TipTok	May 2016	#25
Yes. We must prepare to be victims, unable	Press Virginia	May 2016	#26
One can defend themselves without being like this gunner	Hoyt	May 2016	#29
Really? How are you going to defend yourself	Press Virginia	May 2016	#31
I have defended myself against more than one person armed. It's no big deal, they are	Hoyt	May 2016	#38
Yes....	CompanyFirstSergeant	May 2016	#32
Come over to the Gungeon (RKBA)	CompanyFirstSergeant	May 2016	#2
Too much gun porn, hatred, show me yours, compensating, support for the george zimmermans, and	Hoyt	May 2016	#4
I disagree.	CompanyFirstSergeant	May 2016	#5
You are a gun fancier, you are biased and influenced by your need for gunz.	Hoyt	May 2016	#9
"......most gun fanciers are white guys afraid of POC."	CompanyFirstSergeant	May 2016	#11
Not sure what that means, but one person is not most.	Hoyt	May 2016	#18
A group of guys....	CompanyFirstSergeant	May 2016	#20
Sorry, civilians here don't need a combat shooting course unless they are in groups like this.	Hoyt	May 2016	#27
The AA community appears to have a thriving gun culture.	hack89	May 2016	#36
Not anywhere near the proportion of white folks. Most Blacks I know are against guns.	Hoyt	May 2016	#39
Porn...did someone say porn.....?	CompanyFirstSergeant	May 2016	#15
I disagree	Duckhunter935	May 2016	#34
I too suspect only that which validates my biases.	LanternWaste	May 2016	#6
It's a lighthearted invitation to a debate....	CompanyFirstSergeant	May 2016	#8
Not in her vocabulary...	TipTok	May 2016	#13
It's familiar because it's a standard anti-gun argument.	Bonx	May 2016	#7
If gunners are honest, their need for a bunch or one in their pants is "standard" as well.	Hoyt	May 2016	#10
Uh, ok.	Bonx	May 2016	#16
Outside Waist Band Carry...	CompanyFirstSergeant	May 2016	#17
"Shucks, if I had one, I'd be much more likely to accidentally shoot myself or somebody else"	jmg257	May 2016	#14
They're for eating tasty animals and keeping the king of England out of your face!	Initech	May 2016	#23
"I don't understand...frankly perplexing..frankly wonder...totally useless..."	Brickbat	May 2016	#24
Then don't own one.	Throd	May 2016	#28
FANTASIES of	ProgressiveEconomist	May 2016	#30
...	Duckhunter935	May 2016	#33
Recreation. Comptetive target shooting. nt	hack89	May 2016	#35
If you don't understand why anyone would want or need a gun, you shouldn't get one.	hughee99	May 2016	#37
Locking after a review by forum hosts	Omaha Steve	May 2016	#40

Response to Jeebo (Original post)

Tue May 3, 2016, 11:16 AM

TipTok (2,474 posts)

1. My house has never burned down but I'm still glad the fire department is around

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Response to TipTok (Reply #1)

Tue May 3, 2016, 11:53 AM

Hoyt (54,770 posts)

3. My guess is you don't carry a defibrillator -- much more likely to need that, but not empowering

enough for gun fanciers.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #3)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:07 PM

TipTok (2,474 posts)

12. If I had one that fit conveniently in my pocket or in my truck I might...

Don't have to be prepared for everything from volcanoes to asteroids but nothing wrong with carrying convenient tools that could potentially be useful.

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Response to TipTok (Reply #12)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:24 PM

Hoyt (54,770 posts)

19. Being prepared to shoot someone is wrong, sorry.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #19)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:26 PM

TipTok (2,474 posts)

21. Sorry for being wrong?

There are times when it is absolutely appropriate and even morally mandated and necessary to shoot someone.

The odds don't matter. I hope I never have to shoot anyone again. It costs nothing to be prepared and could cost everything if you aren't.

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Response to TipTok (Reply #21)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:30 PM

CompanyFirstSergeant (1,558 posts)

22. One does not prepare to shoot someone....

...one prepares to stop illegal activity such as deadly physical force by using the minimum possible force in return, only if one is the non-aggressor and makes a reasonable effort to withdraw from the conflict, if possible.

If that means shooting the person, so be it.

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Response to CompanyFirstSergeant (Reply #22)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:36 PM

TipTok (2,474 posts)

25. +1

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #19)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:41 PM

Press Virginia (2,329 posts)

26. Yes. We must prepare to be victims, unable

to do anything that might save our lives or the lives of those we love.

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Response to Press Virginia (Reply #26)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:44 PM

Hoyt (54,770 posts)

29. One can defend themselves without being like this gunner

George Zman with some of his "art work."

http://a2.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/c_fill,fl_keep_iptc,g_faces,h_365,w_652/taq1xbmeat6hcaiwqkgq.jpg

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #29)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:53 PM

Press Virginia (2,329 posts)

31. Really? How are you going to defend yourself

against someone who is armed? Drop to your knees and grovel?

I may not be able to successfully defend myself but I'm not going to prepare myself to be a victim.

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Response to Press Virginia (Reply #31)

Tue May 3, 2016, 01:39 PM

Hoyt (54,770 posts)

38. I have defended myself against more than one person armed. It's no big deal, they are

mostly bullies who will slink off when confronted. Anyone that needs a gun to go to the store, has a deep sense of insecurity and likely paranoia.

You ought to try it sometimes. Heck, even the darling of the gun crowd -- Zman -- trained in self-defense without a gun. Of course, he carried in case he intimindated/bullied someone who took it to him.

Most situations can be avoided just by being aware. You ought to wean yourself off the need for cold steel in your pants.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #29)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:54 PM

CompanyFirstSergeant (1,558 posts)

32. Yes....

....be like me, a boring looking person who minds his own business and never killed anything other than flies and poison ivy.

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Response to Jeebo (Original post)

Tue May 3, 2016, 11:42 AM

CompanyFirstSergeant (1,558 posts)

2. Come over to the Gungeon (RKBA)

Very welcoming to all viewpoints, a rarity these days, it would seem.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1172

Don't go to that other place (gun control activism) most everyone is banned there except the moderator, I suspect.

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Response to CompanyFirstSergeant (Reply #2)

Tue May 3, 2016, 11:56 AM

Hoyt (54,770 posts)

4. Too much gun porn, hatred, show me yours, compensating, support for the george zimmermans, and

other base traits.

Heck, right about the time george zimmerman murdered an unarmed teen, the discussion in the Gungeon was what to do and say to law enforcement if you mess up, like shooting an unarmed teen with your precious daily carry.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #4)

Tue May 3, 2016, 11:58 AM

CompanyFirstSergeant (1,558 posts)

5. I disagree.

Lots of debate and tolerance for both sides.

Come over and bash a gun owner.

We can take it.

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Response to CompanyFirstSergeant (Reply #5)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:04 PM

Hoyt (54,770 posts)

9. You are a gun fancier, you are biased and influenced by your need for gunz.

Gungeon won't let me post there, which is fine. Called too many gunners racist during the zman debate. My experience is that most gun fanciers are white guys afraid of POC. But, gunners don't like hearing that, or acknowledging that going to any gun show, gun store, range, etc., is likely to be evidence of the lack of diversity among that bunch.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #9)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:07 PM

CompanyFirstSergeant (1,558 posts)

11. "......most gun fanciers are white guys afraid of POC."

....Then why, pray tell, did I work in East New York/City Line for 20 years.....?

Never did figure that out.

Oh, because I didn't concern myself with what color my students were....

Yes, that's it!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_New_York,_Brooklyn

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Response to CompanyFirstSergeant (Reply #11)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:19 PM

Hoyt (54,770 posts)

18. Not sure what that means, but one person is not most.

Ever seen a graduating class of Ayoob Massad's training course on "Combat Shooting." In addition to lacking much diversity, you have to wonder why the hell someone in America needs a combat shooting course.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #18)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:26 PM

CompanyFirstSergeant (1,558 posts)

20. A group of guys....

....buying guns, yes, mostly white.

Do you read minds? Do you know what they hate or do not hate?

Why do they need a combat course for... cops take privately held courses, as do security officers, military and, yes, civilians.

Nascar - who needs to go around in circles? Cars have accidents, ban it?

NBA - who needs to bounce and then throw a ball? Balls go into the stands, ban it?

NFL - who needs to wrestle in the mud and snow? Kids get broken collar bones, ban it?

East New York, Brooklyn is one of the most violent neighborhoods in the nation.

EDIT TO KEEP UP WITH YOUR EDIT: No, I don't like the meaning of the Confederate flag.

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Response to CompanyFirstSergeant (Reply #20)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:42 PM

Hoyt (54,770 posts)

27. Sorry, civilians here don't need a combat shooting course unless they are in groups like this.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #9)

Tue May 3, 2016, 01:16 PM

hack89 (39,136 posts)

36. The AA community appears to have a thriving gun culture.

how does that fit into you world view?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #36)

Tue May 3, 2016, 01:40 PM

Hoyt (54,770 posts)

39. Not anywhere near the proportion of white folks. Most Blacks I know are against guns.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #4)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:11 PM

CompanyFirstSergeant (1,558 posts)

15. Porn...did someone say porn.....?

Me, I prefer Mature....

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #4)

Tue May 3, 2016, 01:07 PM

Duckhunter935 (16,974 posts)

34. I disagree

All should look at the respect shown to other viewpoints by the RKBA supporters in that group

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Response to CompanyFirstSergeant (Reply #2)

Tue May 3, 2016, 11:58 AM

LanternWaste (37,748 posts)

6. I too suspect only that which validates my biases.

" everyone is banned there except the moderator, I suspect..."

I too suspect only that which validates my biases-- much more convenient for the undisciplined mind.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #6)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:04 PM

CompanyFirstSergeant (1,558 posts)

8. It's a lighthearted invitation to a debate....

...not a statement of fact.

Humor.

It's called humor.

Relax.

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Response to CompanyFirstSergeant (Reply #8)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:08 PM

TipTok (2,474 posts)

13. Not in her vocabulary...

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Response to Jeebo (Original post)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:01 PM

Bonx (1,963 posts)

7. It's familiar because it's a standard anti-gun argument.

"I don't want or need one. So why do you ?"

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Response to Bonx (Reply #7)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:06 PM

Hoyt (54,770 posts)

10. If gunners are honest, their need for a bunch or one in their pants is "standard" as well.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #10)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:14 PM

Bonx (1,963 posts)

16. Uh, ok.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #10)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:15 PM

CompanyFirstSergeant (1,558 posts)

17. Outside Waist Band Carry...

...K-frame revolvers are too big to fit inside a waistband.

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Response to Jeebo (Original post)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:09 PM

jmg257 (11,996 posts)

14. "Shucks, if I had one, I'd be much more likely to accidentally shoot myself or somebody else"

Well a person does need to know his limitations.

Growing up around them, I never had much worry about being able to use one safely, you learned that one early on. Easier then doing lots of tough things - like raising kids - those rascals have minds of their own!

Always found shooting guns a blast - whether target, plinking, and/or skeet shooting. Like shooting hoops or playing catch, just another way to challenge oneself (and family/friends) to get better, have some fun, etc.

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Response to Jeebo (Original post)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:33 PM

Initech (98,594 posts)

23. They're for eating tasty animals and keeping the king of England out of your face!

/Simpsons answer

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Response to Jeebo (Original post)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:35 PM

Brickbat (19,339 posts)

24. "I don't understand...frankly perplexing..frankly wonder...totally useless..."

I'm getting the feeling you're not actually interested in hearing responses from people who might have answers, and that their answers, because you find them perplexing and difficult to understand, are somehow invalid. And the way you openly wonder about my "mentality" makes me think you're really not interested in a discussion at all.

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Response to Jeebo (Original post)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:43 PM

Throd (7,208 posts)

28. Then don't own one.

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Response to Jeebo (Original post)

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:50 PM

ProgressiveEconomist (5,818 posts)

30. FANTASIES of

"defensive gun use".

Google that phrase and you'll hit widely disparate estimates of the extent to which gun owners "hit the jackpot" and shoot or ward off criminals intent on harming them.

Most of the definitions of "defensive gun use" used in biased and bogus surveys are completely worthless for distinguishing actual crime prevention from intimidating somebody who disagrees with you.

My philosophy is that very few people set out intending to cause anybody else harm, but that many, many people have been misguided or deluded by errant cultural forces and superstitions. IMO, people who waste hundreds or thousands of dollars on "defensive" weapons are like lottery addicts, pouring more and more money down a huge drain in pursuit of something that's just not going to happen in a thousand years. Much more likely than the actual chance for "defensive gun use" is losing a child to careless weapons storage, shooting oneself or somebody else by accident, killing or maiming somebody out of momentary anger, or committing suicide by pressing one button.

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Response to Jeebo (Original post)

Tue May 3, 2016, 01:05 PM

Duckhunter935 (16,974 posts)

33. ...

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Response to Jeebo (Original post)

Tue May 3, 2016, 01:14 PM

hack89 (39,136 posts)

35. Recreation. Comptetive target shooting. nt

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Response to Jeebo (Original post)

Tue May 3, 2016, 01:27 PM

hughee99 (16,113 posts)

37. If you don't understand why anyone would want or need a gun, you shouldn't get one.

Personally, there's a whole bunch of things I don't understand why people would want or need, like cigarettes, jewelry, pet cats, skinny jeans, or a beard.

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Response to Jeebo (Original post)

Tue May 3, 2016, 01:42 PM

Omaha Steve (95,681 posts)

40. Locking after a review by forum hosts

There are a couple guns groups you can post this in.

Discuss politics, issues, and current events. Posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports are restricted in this forum. Posts about the Democratic primaries, conspiracy theories and disruptive meta-discussion are forbidden.

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