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Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
Tue May 31, 2016, 08:11 PM May 2016

MY PET DIED...

Last edited Thu Jun 2, 2016, 02:01 AM - Edit history (16)

I decided to adopt several endangered species. The Humane Society was unable to assist with the adoption, although your local human society or similar groups can help fill the emptiness of losing a beloved pet. Let's not let hate-filled, bigots keep parading images of grief in front of people who lost pets, until they cannot stand to look at Democratic Underground any longer. Some people who post or reply to Opening Posts about pet deaths are sincere. These writers posted at times of emotional crisis and do not need a reminder, of the deaths, days after their initial opening posts.

As my real lost animal friend is concerned, one of the feral cats that I was feeding vanished. I didn't really love it that much anyway. It was a stupid stray that ran from humans. Maybe the half-grown cat simply got caught by the Humane Society and euthanized. No one would adopt the scrawny, little animal.

When I only had a couple of hundred post at Democratic Underground, I had this vision of unifying a massive numbers of members into a single, egalitarian, online cause, for brief periods. In the plan, we would fan out across the internet etc... I was told by a more experienced member that my idea was like attempting to heard cats. And then, one night, right before elections - some of us DID have to spread the word about a Karl Rove plan that involved Diebold paperless voting machines being hacked to reduce turnout of registered Democrats, on election day.

Even so, Bush brothers conned DU members and John Kerry, as Jeb Bush refused to count all the paper ballots in Florida. Chinese agents or right-wing hackers will probably try rigging electronic voting machines, while NSA and FBI agents sit around and watch, instead of defending the US Constitution, which they took an oath to uphold. It is almost identical to the oath that I took on entering the U.S. Military decades ago. I think China is REAL interested in the upcoming election. Chinese hackers of the Chinese Army (PLA) are already wanted by the FBI. China has conducted cyber attacks of every kind in the U.S.A.

Teflon Don, Donald Jr and his brother robustly defend their big game hunting and boast of numerous endangered elephants, leopards and other animals, they slaughtered in Zimbabwe.

In the next image, we see the son of Teflon Don holding a trophy from an endangered species he slaughtered. Maybe he can bring it to his father, who has small hands. He could stick it down his pants. He'll figure out some way to attract female voters. Don't worry, I bet the Trump boys paid for their trip, by selling the ivory tusks. At least U.S. taxpayers dodged financing this African hunting expedition, this time.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3180201/Trump-defends-big-game-hunting-sons-shamed-Twitter-posing-trophy-kills-including-leopard-elephant-death-Cecil-lion.html#ixzz4AH7l68nn
When a pet dies, what if we added that Trump promotes slaughter of endangered species to keep paid online operatives from using our sympathy to push valid criticisms away from heavy readership, weeks from now? Trump wants good news or no news from Democratic Underground, which can yield around 10,000 readers and appear in Google searches. Another option to reduce abuse of outdated animal death O.P.s includes putting in a sincere comment about climate change, especially the fact that it is causing massive extinction of entire species. Online operatives of the Republican National Committee (RNC) are paid to hide the truth on climate change, but volunteer Freepers, who impersonate indignant transsexuals, angry atheists, etc. will still give those articles reasonable publicity. Actually, I would like to hear REAL comments from our LGBT community on this restroom law and whether they want Christians, who read my Opening Posts, to vote for Trump. Hyped on Fox News and pathetic television money grubbers, allegedly of God, inspires right-wing extremest, who call themselves Christians, into becoming aggressive to other groups; but there are plenty of real Christians, who enjoy Democratic Underground and they do not judge others. The new restroom law reeks of political subterfuge. This bathroom issue sounds like an excuse to get obvious LGBT people physically attacked or at least continually accused - online and on television - of all kinds of misconduct. I could quote somebody at Free-Republican or Fox News here; but reading that junk can cause nausea.

And in the interest of "herding cats," we should ALL call him by his mobster name, Teflon Don, not Drumph, a name that might make him proud when he reads it. In the words of a busy host, WHO FINALLY LOCKED A POST, which was offensive to Christians, in this forum: "I truly am sorry it took this long to lock. If I had the authority it would have been locked at 1:02 am. But I couldn't and it took until now to get the votes needed for consensus. Sometimes these things just take time." Like, Jeffersons Ghost, hard-working volunteers at Democratic Underground plan to protect constitutional rights of readers of any religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation.

In fact, I have always loved even the most despised wild animals, including reptiles and amphibians; so I adopted threatened and endangered species in the virtual sense. Without knowing about a Rhino or Mountain Gorilla killed by poachers recently, I found some disturbing pictures. Lack of habitat will utterly destroy the last Gorillas in the wild, soon. There were three extremely popular articles on zoo personnel shooting Guerilla. None focused on ways climate change, accelerated by human encroachment is destroying entire species, both large and small. Poachers slaughter endangered gorillas, elephants, rhinos and big cats, every day.


In closing, I hope true democrats, who have recently begun posting here realize that paid operatives will keep attacking them in print and then push the post away to prevent busy dedicated volunteer moderators/ forum hosts and juries from seeing the violations. Newbies better develop a thick skin fast, or get chased away from this website by the opposition. I got my "thick skin" by writing professionally, for four radio station and a newspaper. Freepers and paid Trump-trolls will guide others with a Private Message, until the new member fades into obscurity, faster than Jeffersons Ghost. He vanished after moving to New Mexico. While traveling near Roswell, the original Ghost was forced to vanish by at least two governments for describing UFOs and freaky satellites in the Conspiracy Theory forum, at D.U. Some say he was drunk, others crazy. The second group was partially correct; and the REAL Jeffersons Ghost would claim responsible writers at D.U. should not discriminate against or marginalize people, who have emotional disturbances. Also, he might add that no one is allowed to attack Muslims, Jews, Wicca witches or even Christians, in print, according to the U.S. Constitution. On of the Gorilla threads made fun of the name Jesus and mocked a traumatized mother. Anyhow, you won't have to tolerate J.G. preaching anymore: I am the space alien or spy, who replaced him. Yep, I am impersonating myself, to trick readers; everyone should give it a try! Just be yourself newbie lurkers and keep Kicking and Recommending (K&R) truly progressive or democratic articles. As my earliest readers realize, the real JG would have made the headline in all-capital letters, like a newspaper headline. Then, I'd get at least one kick, complaining to say, "STOP SCREAMING" OR IS THIS A SCREAMING CONTEST!

The Humane Society also needs and deserves support. Local support of similar groups can help ease grief:
"You love helping animals. So do we."
http://www.humanesociety.org/

49 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
MY PET DIED... (Original Post) Jeffersons Ghost May 2016 OP
How about a graphic warning on this thread. Ms. Toad May 2016 #1
With a name like Ms. Toad, how could a disagree with you? Jeffersons Ghost May 2016 #2
no sympathy for a dead stray. Jeffersons Ghost May 2016 #3
Here's an interesting "GRAPHIC WARNING" with an unusual recovering kitten Jeffersons Ghost May 2016 #4
I didn't suggest removing the images. I suggested you add a graphic warning. Ms. Toad May 2016 #6
I see what you mean with the "GRAPHIC WARNING" headline hook. did you read this? Jeffersons Ghost May 2016 #7
The point is that it gave people curious about a new trend the choice Ms. Toad May 2016 #8
If there was any blood dripping from the African Elephant's tail, I would understand. Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #10
Now here is the underlying point... Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #11
Even more odd, at 11:57 PM MTZ the OP had over 1200 readers 17 recommendations and 1 "K&R" in print Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #12
I wish I knew what you are referring to here. passiveporcupine May 2016 #5
It is really clear, unless taken out of context Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #14
OK...never mind passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #22
k&r Liberal_in_LA Jun 2016 #9
Thanks for the K&R I rmember when I first joined DU I wondered what kick meant Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #13
In the early days, I was reading too much into the "kick" Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #15
a comment on the other Opening Post prompted me to kick this OP Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #16
There still appears to be plenty of banter about one dead zoo gorilla Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #17
I don't understand what your OP is trying to accomplish, but I can tell its earnest. aikoaiko Jun 2016 #18
Thanks, readers better believe that I care about climate change and endangered species... Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #19
As stated, intentions of many people will become increasingly obvious: Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #20
How do mother elephants grieve their dead offspring? Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #21
let's insure this thread gets more exposure than it did for a totally different audience last night Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #23
Elephants should not be allowed to become ivory. Trump is proud of killing elephants for body parts Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #25
OK, I'm starting to get it passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #24
I want to see one animal in a cage and it is called Trump aka "Teflon Don." Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #26
Is it odd to readers? a different crowd at DU during the day offered no comments and very few recs. Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #27
The Roasting a Pig opening post - mentioned last night, at this OP - got hundreds of replies Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #28
Who remembers my first anti-war sign-off sisters? They were like my OP sig line... Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #33
I just want to K&R this post passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #35
Daytime readers might be reading at work passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #29
I. winning over one new reader, who sees odd anomalies with this thread... Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #31
regarding my comment about solitary confinement for humans passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #30
Being a vegan is not safe either. Look at the recent Monsanto scandal! Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #32
No, I meant antibiotics for growth, passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #34
Those sound pretty good. Vegans must worry about DDT used as a pesticide on Mexican Produce Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #36
There are better ways to promote lean muscle growth passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #37
Beef is too expensive. I am stuck eating mostly chicken and turkey. Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #38
Me too. I mostly eat chicken or no meat at all passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #39
with hundreds of new readers, recommendations remain stuck at 26 for over three hours Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #40
could it be TLDR? passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #41
What is TLDR? Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #42
Too long didn't read passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #43
Thanks it is a cool experiment. Do you want to hear about Red Wolves? Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #44
It might be easier to just bookmark this thread. passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #45
I will update this news in an Opening Post later. I wish someone would K&R the OP, It is noteworthy Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #46
Thanks for the link passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #47
Do you remember this from the OP Check out current news from the BBC? Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #48
kick Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2016 #49

Ms. Toad

(34,068 posts)
1. How about a graphic warning on this thread.
Tue May 31, 2016, 08:14 PM
May 2016

Not sure I needed to wander in to the severed elephant tail and dead leopard when I click on your thread thinking you might need a bit of empathy for a lost pet.

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
2. With a name like Ms. Toad, how could a disagree with you?
Tue May 31, 2016, 08:24 PM
May 2016

Someone will probably call me a toad-lover or something; but my media experience demands that I leave the disturbing images in the Opening Post. OR I COULD MAKE THE HEADLINE ALL IN CAPS, LIKE SOME NEWSPAPER HEADLINES! Thanks for the kick, actually your comments gave me the idea that I better figure out a way to save the images, before Trump realizes how dangerous they are to his campaign. I know that neither stray cats nor endangered species matter to everyone.

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
3. no sympathy for a dead stray.
Tue May 31, 2016, 09:12 PM
May 2016

How about when I was a child and my real pet cat climbed up into or near the engine of a car. I watched, as a dog chased it into harms way. I begged them not to start the car, while crying. They were from out of town and in a hurry to miss rush hour. As soon as the motor fired up, the cat was slung out after a fan belt caught it. They claimed they would buy me another cat; but never did. It was pretty graphic, unlike my recent loss, where I did not have to see the feral cat actually die. Her mother is trickier and can really dodge humans, dogs and vehicles. She will be back around for a free meal. It's a big orange tabby. This Opening Post went 3/4 down the page in only a few minutes, with only one comment.

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
4. Here's an interesting "GRAPHIC WARNING" with an unusual recovering kitten
Tue May 31, 2016, 09:34 PM
May 2016

a Humane Society website features a recovering kitten, under unusual circumstances. Now, I can change the headline in good conscience.

?t=45

Ms. Toad

(34,068 posts)
6. I didn't suggest removing the images. I suggested you add a graphic warning.
Tue May 31, 2016, 10:15 PM
May 2016

That way people sucked in by your headline, feeling empathy for your dead pet, can choose to avoid a thread that displays graphic images of your dead pet.

It's just common decency to give people a choice about viewing images that graphically depict death or dismemberment.

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
7. I see what you mean with the "GRAPHIC WARNING" headline hook. did you read this?
Tue May 31, 2016, 11:33 PM
May 2016

We're you referring this type of story being highly recommended at Democratic Underground. I hope it doesn't have anything to do with Muslim or Jewish eating habits. Did the headline "So is a new trend? (IMAGE WARNING: ROASTING PIG)" deserve that much publicity?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7868931

Ms. Toad

(34,068 posts)
8. The point is that it gave people curious about a new trend the choice
Tue May 31, 2016, 11:40 PM
May 2016

of whether to look at the image or not, because the headline warned them that clicking would display a graphic image.

Your thread does not give readers a choice. It makes no difference to me at all about whether a thread is recommended or not. What does matter to me is giving people enough information so they can choose to avoid the thread if they do not want to see graphic images.

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
10. If there was any blood dripping from the African Elephant's tail, I would understand.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 12:49 AM
Jun 2016

In fact, the image could vanish from the internet and deserves complete description. In the older archives section of my journal I found one of many graphic depictions of baby seal kills. No one at Democratic Underground ever complained when I posted Massive Exxon and BP sea-life kills, baby seal seal or Japanese shark slaughters for their tails. I never said "Graphic Warning" on any of the Opening Posts. You should have seen my anti-war images of Muslim blood spilled in expensive, illegal invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. I got the images from some of the hottest overseas, radical Islamic, online haunts for FBI and NSA agents.

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
11. Now here is the underlying point...
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 01:28 AM
Jun 2016

In slightly over 10 minutes, this Opening Post was pushed over half way down the page, while commenters at Democratic Underground posted a picture of a roast pig! Do readers think recent comments on much older opening posts, which were nearly meaningless in the first place. come from people, want to hide high-grade Trump revelation, with a spark of tongue-in-cheek comedy, which is increasingly entertaining to readers.

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
12. Even more odd, at 11:57 PM MTZ the OP had over 1200 readers 17 recommendations and 1 "K&R" in print
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 02:04 AM
Jun 2016

The few actual replies were critical. Does anyone really believe one meager opinion that I should have given some "warning" about images reduced the number of people who read my posts simply because they enjoy the drama and finding out what's really up at D.U; but that doesn't explain the absence of other comments of Trump advocating the slaughter of endangered elephants.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
5. I wish I knew what you are referring to here.
Tue May 31, 2016, 09:46 PM
May 2016
Let's not let hate-filled, bigots keep parading images of grief in front of people who lost pets, until they cannot stand to look at Democratic Underground any longer.

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
13. Thanks for the K&R I rmember when I first joined DU I wondered what kick meant
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:13 AM
Jun 2016

Then one of th earliest Freepers began attacking spelling errors on my posts and I thought, these people are trying to "kick" me out of here.

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
15. In the early days, I was reading too much into the "kick"
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:38 AM
Jun 2016

Some readers want to make it appear unimportant that Trump's boys kill endangered species and Teflon Don advocates the activity. As anyone who reads the posts in the thread realizes, Ms. Toad makes a valid argument to change the headline, which I did. Then on the other thread someone says that I "make to much" out of thousands or readers who will not comment here, as people are willing to make dozens of silly or serious remarks on yesterdays news posts. The person who said that on the other thread could be correct. Less than 100 "daytime" readers at D.U. have been exposed to the Opening Post from last night. That, however, should be enough readers to provoke a resonable, supportive, comment.

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
16. a comment on the other Opening Post prompted me to kick this OP
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:53 AM
Jun 2016

They said all the new recommendations should appear here, logically. Once this thread got exposure, it did get a couple of recommendations, without comment, which is business as usual for JG, even in the old days.

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
17. There still appears to be plenty of banter about one dead zoo gorilla
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 11:13 AM
Jun 2016

Who cares if the last tribe of Mountain Gorillas is an increasing risk of being pouched by relatives of a wealthy politician? Love for one animal, instead of the entire species is questionable to me... Is this image too "graphic?" does the naked gorilla care if an artist paints him naked with a small penis? Unlike humans, this is a majestic, intelligent animal and many zoo habitats are small, inadequate jails, instead of habitats. I remember seeing the sadness in the face on a gorilla in a zoo jail, instead of a reasonable habitat enclosure. Most gorillas still suspect that they are in prison for life, no matter how nice zoo habitats become.

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
19. Thanks, readers better believe that I care about climate change and endangered species...
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 12:43 PM
Jun 2016

Poachers often kill game wardens, who protect wild gorillas.
Here's some "GRAPHIC WARNING PICTURES"

Did someone link "Mommy to Gorilla?" Here is the way mother gorillas grieve...

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
20. As stated, intentions of many people will become increasingly obvious:
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 12:53 PM
Jun 2016

Here is a mother gorilla grieving a true baby gorilla, instead of a half grown animal, like my missing feral cat that failed to show up for a free meal again this morning.

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
21. How do mother elephants grieve their dead offspring?
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 01:10 PM
Jun 2016

Both gorillas and African Elephants are highly intelligent animals, with lengthy grieving periods. Wild elephants and gorillas are doing a lot of grieving these days, while Teflon Don and his children brag about killing seriously endangered species.

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
23. let's insure this thread gets more exposure than it did for a totally different audience last night
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 01:49 PM
Jun 2016

I got over 1,700 readers last night. With every kick, I've improved the thread with great endangered animal imagery today. Here is the way a wild African Elephant should look:

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
24. OK, I'm starting to get it
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 01:58 PM
Jun 2016

I thought in the first post that the trump boys killings were a metaphor for the 'real' message. Now I think they are what this post is about. I think. I hope I'm getting it. Anyway, as I feel very strongly about all animals and especially intelligent species, like apes, elephants, and dolphins, being treated compassionately and with respect, I will K&R this thread as well.

I would like to add that as long as we have endangered species we cannot protect (and obviously we are protecting some, but not enough) I do understand the need for breeding programs in zoos to try to keep the species alive and teach people about how amazing the animals are.

I'd prefer to not have them on 'display" for the public if it bothers them in any way, and I think it does. I'd rather zoos be a theater where people get to view animals in video format instead of in person, as they live in a wildlife breeding sanctuary with acres to roam, not small enclosures in a city.

I've always hated seeing animals in a cage. I won't even have a pet that needs to be caged, like a rabbit or a ferret. Even birds who aren't allowed out of their cages (untamed) are not OK with me. I had a voluntary tree frog guest in my kitchen this past year (for six months...she would not leave), and she lived free on my kitchen counter, even though it would have been easier on me if she'd been in a tank...but I didn't want to restrict her freedom to go back outside when she wanted to. I finally had to put her back outside when it warmed up and the bugs started coming to life, because it was too hard for me to always be looking for bugs for her, and I just hope she is still alive. I'm not hearing tree frogs outside this year and I don't know why. Maybe it's just too soon.

I hate cages...I can't imagine living in a cage (prison). Why do we do that to people (solitary confinement) and animals? I wonder if aliens will put us in zoos when they find us. It would be karma. I remember a favorite story as a kid about a little boy who kept mistreating kittens by carrying them around in his pocket and then a giant little girl comes along and sees him and puts him in her pocket and carries him around for a day or two. The story ends when he learns his lesson about the kittens. That story left a mark on me. We need more stories like that for our kids when they are learning morals and integrity and compassion. I wonder if the Trump boys ever got stories about morals as kids.

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
26. I want to see one animal in a cage and it is called Trump aka "Teflon Don."
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 03:47 PM
Jun 2016

The Trump cruise ship has run aground, whenever his true motives become obvious. Here is a picture that I posted years ago:
"Strandings are always a mystery; we'll see if we can find something that can shed some light on it," he said. Does anyone think pollution or toxic chemicals dumped into the ocean causes whale strandings?

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
27. Is it odd to readers? a different crowd at DU during the day offered no comments and very few recs.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 04:29 PM
Jun 2016

As stated, last night this Opening Post got over 17 recommendations, when I reported the correct time in New Mexico, on the thread. It's 2:26 PM MTZ, on 6/1/16 right now and this Opening Post - with no extra comments and only a few new recommendations has me baffled! Can anyone explain the difference between attitudes of these readers. Anyone who re-reads the OP will see that aside from fixing some typos, spelling errors and slightly changing the headline, the original content remains essentially intact. With all the environmental pictures and comments, the thread has vastly improved. Daytime readers don't appear to care as much as the night crowd in General Discussion at Democratic Underground; or is there another problem?

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
28. The Roasting a Pig opening post - mentioned last night, at this OP - got hundreds of replies
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 04:50 PM
Jun 2016

I hope roasting a pig has nothing to do with the diet of Jews and Muslims. It is only a boring picture of a roasted pig, instead of a serious graphic warning; but quite an odd phenomenon, with well over a hundred comments. No new replies on my OP, with hundreds of new readers. The headline is essentially the same, as before; but all in caps, just like the old days.

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
33. Who remembers my first anti-war sign-off sisters? They were like my OP sig line...
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 06:02 PM
Jun 2016

Has everyone seen this video set to music, by Jefferson's Ghost? That's me, after someone fixed what they assumed was a typo. Anyhow, I am glad they commercialized and preserved our old Democratic Underground anti-war mantra:


passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
35. I just want to K&R this post
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 06:35 PM
Jun 2016

very well done and very moving. The image of the mother crying over her dead son's body was haunting and heartbreaking.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
29. Daytime readers might be reading at work
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 04:55 PM
Jun 2016

and don't have the time to comment? I don't know. It's an interesting question.

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
31. I. winning over one new reader, who sees odd anomalies with this thread...
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 05:20 PM
Jun 2016

Be sure and PM me if you have a climate change OP or especially an Opening Post that presents real accusations against Trump - like approving of the slaughter of elephants or other endangered species; or Trump University court rulings; or Trump tax returns, which remain hidden.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
30. regarding my comment about solitary confinement for humans
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 04:59 PM
Jun 2016

Except for not being blocked from outside activity and sound, putting animals in cages (oh, look mamma...that baby rabbit is so cute...can I have one?)...is no different than solitary confinement for humans, and yet many humans find that to be torture. We don't seem to mind torturing animals, or we refuse to accept that it's the same as torturing humans.

My god, we even use chippers to dispose of live chicks in chicken factories when they can't be raised for eggs (the males). I didn't know that until recently, and when I first heard about it, I almost threw up.

The things we do to animals just so we get to eat what we want...cramming grain down the throats of geese so we can fatten their livers. Feeding livestock antibiotics to let them grow faster...raising tons of cattle for dairy products, knowing the male calves that are a by product of keeping females in milk, and then using them for veal, raising meat chickens that are bred to grow so fast they can't live long because their legs can't support them, neither can their hearts. But before they are butchered, they can barely even get around.

I'm not a vegan, and I think raising livestock humanely for human use is OK, but we overdo it...we eat way too much meat which is not good for greenhouse gasses...and we mistreat all animals in factory farming. I'm not saying animals were never abused by farmers before...of course we can't expect all people to be compassionate, but factory farming has just been horrendous and I wish there was a way to stop it.

I will also say that any vegan who has a dog or cat, while trying to tell everyone else they are immoral for not being vegan, should be feeding that animal meat...and that means some livestock has to be killed for it's meat. I do hope they at least try to buy foods that are not made from factory farmed animals. Unfortunately I can't afford to buy super expensive foods for my critters so I can't be that picky...and most pet foods do not say where the animal products come from.

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
32. Being a vegan is not safe either. Look at the recent Monsanto scandal!
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 05:50 PM
Jun 2016

I think that you meant to say "steroids," instead of "antibiotics" but some people are truly emotional about ecosystem and how added, untested compounds affect the human body. Anxiety can cause typos hasty comments and spelling errors. Admittedly, I was emotional about the son-of-a-Trump, killing elephants, leopards and other large African mammals. The paradox is that an even greater chance exposure to unknown chemicals exists with "free-range" and "organically grown," foods because of toxins a wide range of U.S. businesses dump into the water-table, reservoirs and soil. The real Republican motto is "lead by example!" Now, let's create another oil spill, fish kill or something. The Trump-trolls can blame it on Obama! By the way, business owners who voted for Trump can dump toxic chemical and biological waste right into that lake, local people keep using to drink, wash and bathe with. You know the BIG lake right behind the damn...

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
34. No, I meant antibiotics for growth,
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 06:16 PM
Jun 2016

but they also use growth hormones.

Some farmers and ranchers choose to use ionophores – a special class of antibiotics not used in human medicine – to promote lean muscle growth in animals, which results in leaner beef choices.


https://factsaboutbeef.com/2014/09/18/antibiotic-use-in-cattle-101/

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
36. Those sound pretty good. Vegans must worry about DDT used as a pesticide on Mexican Produce
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 06:38 PM
Jun 2016

Leaner meats are more healthy. Pork taste great; but people my age should avoid it. In fact, most readers eat Mexican vegetables, exposed to a toxin, which migrates from vegetables, fruits and seeds into the food chain, where it lurks to eventually humans and wildlife. DDT creates birth-defect issues in mammals and birds:

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
37. There are better ways to promote lean muscle growth
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 07:00 PM
Jun 2016

like grass fed beef instead of grain fed beef, which does not produce lean meat, but produces a lot more meat and profit per animal.

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
38. Beef is too expensive. I am stuck eating mostly chicken and turkey.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 07:13 PM
Jun 2016

After the BP Oil Spill, I stopped eating shrimp and several kinds of fish. Many large, ocean dwelling fish are full of mercury.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
39. Me too. I mostly eat chicken or no meat at all
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 07:20 PM
Jun 2016

Oh, and canned tuna. I love my rice dish that is made like pilaf (browned in oil, and then cooked in broth) and includes broccoli, bell pepper, celery, onion, garlic, tuna, and walnuts.

I do buy red meat every now and then for one of my cats, and I love a hamburger now and then, but I only buy it if I see a good sale. I'd prefer a hamburger made of really lean meat and I can never afford the leaner hamburger. I probably have about five hamburgers a year.

I'm single and cooking for one, so even with chicken, I only use 1/4 lb of meat when I cook and I mostly do stir fry. Lots of veggies.

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
40. with hundreds of new readers, recommendations remain stuck at 26 for over three hours
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 07:23 PM
Jun 2016

Recommendations were flowing fine earlier. It in 5:20 PM MTZ people coming home from work on the East Coast are just finishing supper. Reader numbers subsided too, although no one of the East Coast could have ever seen this Opening Post, yet. Some readers at DU in the Central Time Zone are also seeing it for the first time.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
43. Too long didn't read
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 07:47 PM
Jun 2016

just cause someone opens a thread, doesn't mean they read it. And if they don't read it, they probably won't rec it, or post.

But I'm helping to keep this one kicked!

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
44. Thanks it is a cool experiment. Do you want to hear about Red Wolves?
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 08:09 PM
Jun 2016

It is a major legal battle between New Mexico and the USA. Martinez and her crowd are blocking their reintroduction into the wild. If they bring them to Albuquerque...
Anyhow, images on this thread are worth saving. Other DU members could link to them from here, I think... what's your opinion?

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
45. It might be easier to just bookmark this thread.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 08:13 PM
Jun 2016

which I've done.

I love the African elephant pic you posted...magnificent animal. I had to save that for my screensaver (SS rotates images I've saved).

I'd not heard of the red wolf dilemma. I had not even heard of red wolves. What gorgeous animals.



I'm glad you told me about this. I need to do more research.



Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
46. I will update this news in an Opening Post later. I wish someone would K&R the OP, It is noteworthy
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 08:22 PM
Jun 2016

The first 1800 readers gave it about twenty. The next several thousand readers decided not to continue recommending such dramatic anti-Trump information and a high-profile headline, would have garnered at least as many recommendations and comments.

http://www.abqjournal.com/759957/feds-to-release-wolves-in-nm-despite-state-opposition.html

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
47. Thanks for the link
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 08:33 PM
Jun 2016

I haven't been paying attention. I love NM, and lived in Albuquerque for awhile. Last I knew the governor was a dem (Bill Richardson) and I was happy about that. I didn't know a republican took over. Ugh! And she's from Texas originally...that probably makes it even worse.

The federal agency has gotten state permission for wolf releases in the past, but the relationship has soured under Republican Gov. Susana Martinez.


Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
48. Do you remember this from the OP Check out current news from the BBC?
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 08:50 PM
Jun 2016

"China has conducted cyber attacks of every kind in the U.S.A." This Opening Post was getting recommendations steadily for a while. The abrupt stop as new readers continued to read the thread is to say the least, unusual. Did you read this news about Chinese poachers in the South China Sea being protected by the Chinese Navy, as they destroyed giant clams, which are the only size clam that can actually reproduce?

"What are they doing?" I asked the boatman.

"They are using their propellers to break the reef," he said.

They dropped it on to a pile near their boat. Next to it lay three others they had pulled out earlier. Clams of this size are probably 100 years old, and - as I discovered later on an internet auction site - can sell for between $1,000 (£665) and $2,000 a pair.

We motored out to a group of much larger fishing boats anchored just off the reef. These are "mother ships" to the small poacher boats on the reef. On board the big boats I could see hundreds of clam shells stacked high. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35106631

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