Could Obama pull a Johnson this late in the game? If he knows he is going to lose

[CK_John]

is it right to pretend otherwise?

If his Health Care program is dumped shortly by the court, what will he do?

Do we need a total depression to cleanse the RW. The public doesn't seem to care one way or another?

Lots of questions, no answers.

[fishwax]

1. What reason would Obama have to believe his defeat was inevitable?

[CK_John]

7. Today showed he has no idea how to win against an irrational liar like Mitt.

He also has very good state polls. He wants a logical opponent and they just give him hate.

[jberryhill]

15. It was harder the first time

Everybody in the electorate just LOVED him in 2008.

[CK_John]

22. 2008 will never happen again and it would be a waste to try and duplicate it..

[jberryhill]

24. Stick to the point

Non sequitur. I did not say that 2012 was or should be a "repeat" of 2008.

I am merely saying that it getting re-elected is, in general, not as difficult as getting elected in the first instance.

Of course there are many different factors, but I believe that the fundamental duplicity of the other side this time is not something that will be sustainable as a viable path from here to November.

[CK_John]

27. Fair enough, I think if he knows, he should step aside. nt

[demosincebirth]

49. you nuts?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

105. Hello Mitt

[cliffordu]

125. Well.....

Yer killing me!

[RBInMaine]

36. That's ridiculous, and he and his team have HAMMERED Mittens and will continue to.

[MannyGoldstein]

2. We would need this depression to get much worse to cleanse both parties

They have both become savage enemies of the 99%, but the 99% may not comprehend that until many more are starving and without hope.

I hate this. But that's what I think it would take.

[still_one]

4. one side is much worse, and if there is a depression, that is how nazi Germany came into being /nt

[MannyGoldstein]

5. It's also how FDR, the New Deal, and 40 years of prosperity

came into being.

Either can happen. And one will, as both parties are forcing us down that path (yes, one faster than the other).

[truedelphi]

23. That was a decent comeback.

And it was the truth! Thank you.

[joshcryer]

54. That's how labor got killed.

[MannyGoldstein]

74. Labor was killed in the New Deal?

I think that's very incorrect.

Or do you mean something else by your post?

[joshcryer]

87. Labor was certainly killed by the NLRB paving the way for Taft–Hartley.

This is uncontroversial, and no, I mean precisely what I said. FDR was not a friend of labor.

Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees. Upon employees in the Federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people, whose interests and welfare require orderliness and continuity in the conduct of Government activities. This obligation is paramount. Since their own services have to do with the functioning of the Government, a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable. It is, therefore, with a feeling of gratification that I have noted in the constitution of the National Federation of Federal Employees the provision that "under no circumstances shall this Federation engage in or support strikes against the United States Government."

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=15445#axzz1xJox46w1

It was bad enough that the NLRB effectively made wildcat strikes irrelevant.

The reality is that if we did have another Great Depression and we did have another FDR come along, they would do the same fucking shit FDR did and neuter labor even more than it has already bee done.

[MannyGoldstein]

89. Union membership increased by 300% under FDR

And it started going up sharply the year he took office. I can supply figures later if you want.

[WI_DEM]

110. '40 years of prosperity' helped along by WWII, Korea and Vietnam.

[MannyGoldstein]

111. Which helps prove the point that Keynsian spending is needed

Paul Krugman: Wars and Growth

Of course it would be far better to spend on stuff that doesn't blow people up. But dramatic spending is needed, not job-destroying austerity.

[cliffordu]

126. Uh, that would have been WWII, actually.

sorry.

[MannyGoldstein]

128. Uh, jobless rolls dropped by 40% in FDR's first term

and GDP grew at 8% per year during that period.

[dionysus]

8. sure you do, manny...

[MannyGoldstein]

9. Ahh, the ROFL glyph

The universal Third-Way symbol of having nothin'. Nada.

[dionysus]

81. keep sputtering manny...

[patrice]

10. Will those be more or less who starve and have no hope than will starve and have no hope because of

the transition to __________________ (???) that you predict would be the result of this "cleansing"?

How many is really an unacceptable question to a Liberal such as I am, because the justification for the cleanse is the intrinsic value of humanity, so we violate that principle by hurting people in order to "save" them, or at least by hurting those who DO NOT CHOOSE the pain consequent upon this change.

But - How many, anyway: How many starving and without hope as established elements of the status quo evolve toward what you would identify as valid change - compared to - how many starving and without hope as the result of something relatively new that precipitates faster change toward a relatively similar objective?

[cali]

11. yah, you hate it so much you're wishing

outright mass death on the poor and disabled. Thanks for that.

[MannyGoldstein]

13. I'm absolutely NOT wishing it

It's horrible and it makes me deeply despair. But I believe the die is cast.

[cali]

17. Manny, You said "We NEED". That most certainly is wishing for it.

[MannyGoldstein]

21. Sorry, I don't think that's how our language works.

I didn't say we need X. I said we need X to do Y. Much different.

I was responding to the OP's question re: cleansing the RW.

[Ikonoklast]

45. Anyone calling for a depression is an 'enemy of the people'.

Your Glorious Revolution won't happen no matter how much misery you wish on the poor, the odds are that if there ever is a catastrophic economic calamity a dictatorship will arise.

[joshcryer]

55. The Grand Historical Materialism Roadmap.

The truth is there are some who want to see the world burn. They want a front seat post.

[Ikonoklast]

61. The coffeehouse plotters willingly sacrifice the pawns in their grand schemes against Tyranny.

Which is all well fine and good, just as long as *they* aren't the pawns being sacrificed.

[dionysus]

98. Manny in the coffeeshop, with his black beret, riffing about the bourgeois...

[MineralMan]

51. That's one of the more disgusting proposals I've seen you make.

I'm betting that you wouldn't be among those who are starving and without hope, somehow.

"Let's you and him fight" is not a valid call to action.

I'd say more, but I can't without getting my post hidden.

[joshcryer]

56. Correct, it's a perfectly bourgeoisie statement to make.

I know of no poor person who believes we need a great depression for things to get better. Even in their depths of poverty they have optimism that things will get better. They are then called naive by the bourgeoisie scum who trot out their desires to see the world burn.

[MineralMan]

59. I know of no caring person who makes such statements, either.

Hoping for disaster, starvation, and misery for others is not a progressive thing in any way. It is simply disgusting.

[sabrina 1]

129. It is even more disgusting to keep supporting policies that are destroying the working class.

Any elected official who does that is disgusting.

[MineralMan]

130. And who did you have in mind who is doing that?

Truly. This nonsense is disgusting.

[sabrina 1]

131. Yes, it truly is disgusting.

[MineralMan]

133. In the immortal words of

Pontius Pilate in the film version of Jesus Christ Superstar:

"That is not an answer."

[sabrina 1]

134. The answer is right here on DU. I assume you read DU do you not?

Unless you support the theory that sending even more American jobs overseas while costing Americans their livelihoods is a good thing as it will 'give them a chance to retrain for other jobs'. While their families starve?

[MannyGoldstein]

70. It's an *observation*, not a proposal. Nt

[MineralMan]

77. We all know better than that, Manny.

Sorry, but you can't pull out of this so easily.

[MannyGoldstein]

79. One of us has huge difficulties with the English language

Have a good day.

[MineralMan]

80. I will have a good day, thanks.

I'm not starving so far, since I sold my little fishing boat yesterday to forestall that. One of my clients is being a little slow to pay just now for the work I've done. He'll come through, but...

I hope you're doing well in whatever enterprise you're carrying out.

[dionysus]

100. sorry manny, by now we all know what you're about, you can't wriggle out of it so easily...

[Egalitarian Thug]

124. And another with français. n/t

Yellow rolling guy works both ways

[joshcryer]

53. Unsurprising that you'd say that.

There's a big group who thinks it has to get worse before it gets better. Nader practically sang that song.

[Ikonoklast]

68. Nader is a 1%'er. He'd stay safe.

Another one who'd wish destruction on all that he cannot control.

[joshcryer]

88. Basically anyone who says that is likely a 1%er or at least a 5%er.

I know a poster on DU who was complaining about their health insurance costs being really high, I mean, they spend almost more on health insurance than I make in an entire year. I did the numbers, did the breakdown, and they basically have the best coverage you can possibly get, and then some, and they're complaining that "Obamacare" is costing them so much. I cannot take seriously any comments from that poster from that point on. It was just absurd.

Almost more money than I make in an entire year.

[adigal]

113. I am not a 1%er. My husband is on disability and I hope to get my pension

when I retire. So when my governor starts going after state pensions, I will be hurt. I may lose it. But I agree with Manny in a way, especially after seeing how 30% of labor voted for Walker the other day. Take my pension, take away my right to bargain for my salary and benefits, and I will vote for you??? I spend a lot of time trying to figure this out. How can this be?? How ignorant are we, as a people?? What will it take for the 99% to figure out that the 1% is not their friend?? Will it take utter poverty and despair? And then who knows who will come riding in to save them? In a way, I think Romney, a shark of a businessman, is that monster on a horse. Lots of people think because he was a businessman, he can fix the economy. They forget, so so quickly, about GW Bush, an MBA.

At this point, I am close to despairing that the 99% will all wake up. What will it take?? Rather than beat up on Manny with oh-so-clever rejoinders, I would love to see what everyone here thinks it will take to wake up the other side of we the people.

[emulatorloo]

60. Vile.

[MineralMan]

64. It's telling that you are using the word "cleanse" with regard to

people starving, I think. I'm pretty sure I've heard about such "cleansings" somewhere before.

Perhaps you can be this generation's Samuel Pepys, sitting and watching from a window, secure in a Royal Appointment, and describing the plague going on and the bodies in the streets. Perhaps a few hundred years ago, people will be reading your diaries.

[MannyGoldstein]

72. That's the word used in the OP, genius

I was addressing a question in the OP.

Before accusing someone of encouraging genocide, thoughtful people would scan for context.

[MineralMan]

78. Uh, you used it in the title of your reply, Manny.

Words have an impact. I accused you of nothing. I observed your use of the word. It was an "observation," to use your own words.

I'm not a genius, either, but I'm smart enough to suss out what you're doing.

[Brickbat]

127. Truth hurts, and you're right on.

Hang in there, MG.

[tabasco]

132. Yeah, that would make things better, guaranteed.

[cali]

3. no. not a chance. ridiculous.

[CK_John]

16. You said the same thing when I pointed out the antiRecall feelings would play

a large part in the WI vote.

[cali]

18. no I didn't. I thought the same thing and I never thought Walker would be recalled.

[Heather4]

6. Spam deleted by Morning Dew (MIR Team)

[Art_from_Ark]

12. Johnson "pulled a Johnson" in March 1968

ostensibly after his near loss to Eugene McCarthy in the New Hampshire, but it probably had more to do with "losing Cronkite". That is, "the most trusted man in America", newscaster Walter Cronkite, started coming out against the Vietnam War in early 1968, around the same time as the Tet Offensive had started to change a lot of minds about the war. Nevertheless, McCarthy was a serious challenger in the primaries, and he was gaining support among the anti-war voters. Obama has no such challenger, and it's highly doubtful that he'd drop out this late in the game barring some major catastrophe.

[CK_John]

19. What if Gov Scott defies the DOJ with Florida state troopers. If

the EU breaks up. If the SC negates HealthCare. All this before July 4TH.

[jberryhill]

25. Gov Scott does not actually run the voter rolls

The county supervisors control the rosters.

Besides, there is nothing to oppose by force.

[CK_John]

28. That's today, what is to prevent him storming the offices, change the locks

and take control of the rolls. It was done in the 50's and the 1850's.

[muriel_volestrangler]

34. Scott is a Republican, remember?

If a fascist power grab is attempted by a Republican governor, that makes Republicans look bad.

I cannot see how you think how Scott doing that would reflect badly on Obama. You appear to be floundering around, pulling random hypotheticals out of the air, and saying "well, what if that happened - surely Obama would have to step down? Huh? Huh?"

First, connect Obama to your hypothetical. Only then can your Creative Speculation proceed.

Why you're so damn keen to find a reason for Obama to step down, which would hand the election on a plate to Romney, who knows.

[Surya Gayatri]

39. Floridians are already beginning to resist

his heavy-handed manipulation.

County registrars (Republicans included) are refusing to implement his purge.

Do you seriously think they would stand for this deeply unpopular governor forcibly preempting their offices?

Bleat on, oh Cassandra!

[Greybnk48]

52. Johnson also had a serious heart condition

that was progressively getting worse.

[Art_from_Ark]

114. He died in 1973, almost exactly 4 years after leaving office,

so a heart condition may very well have had something to do with his 1968 decision.

[jberryhill]

14. Someone is definitely pulling on a Johnson here

[Major Nikon]

29. I still don't understand why he'd want to pull out his Johnson

Pissing contest?

[Surya Gayatri]

40. Trying to turn empty, silly speculation into a DU meme, I suspect...

[The Magistrate]

106. Now, That, Sir, Is A DUzy....

[Drunken Irishman]

20. Give me a fucking break.

God, are liberals and DU going to be this insufferable the next five months? Why would Obama, who's leading in the polls and has the lead in a great deal of swing states (enough to win 270) drop out? How much crack have you smoked today? Yes, I'm being an asshole right now because such a thread deserves an asshole response.

[jberryhill]

26. +1000

[K8-EEE]

31. obama leading in every natl poll, electoral college poll, up in fl

Isn't Mitt the one who should "pull a Lyndon?"

[Drunken Irishman]

33. Exactly!

Nate Silver gives him a 62% chance of winning in November, Intrade says 53.6% chance to win - but Obama needs to drop out.

[Surya Gayatri]

41. +1,000 ! Thanks for saying this, DI!

[JNelson6563]

43. Well there's Manny and then there's everyone else

I hope you noticed most are treating this pap with the contempt it deserves. Isn't it funny how blatant they get as we get closer and closer to election?

lolz Can almost smell the desperation through the screen....

Julie

[treestar]

58. Amen!

They can't demand the primary at this point, so now it's going to be this?

[JoePhilly]

63. +1000

The anti-Obama threads are going to become more and more shrill, even as it becomes more and more evident that he will be re-elected.

[alcibiades_mystery]

73. CK_John is a classic Obama Hater from way back

Nothing he has to say on the matter can be taken seriously.

[dionysus]

84. they realize they're gonna have 4 more years, and they're getting desperate. side effect is, we

gotta put up with 4 more years of the wailing, gnashing, pamper filling, ect...

[CK_John]

86. I do not hate Obama, I supported Hillary in the primary and will not

rehash that.

Is he a good president? I've seen better.

[K8-EEE]

92. WOULD MITT BE BETTER???

If you think so then vote for him......but that would be CRAZY.

[snooper2]

117. I can't believe some folks are still bitter...

How can you hold onto that for years?

[Tarheel_Dem]

121. There's quite a few of them still around these parts. I'm almost embarrased for them at this point.

[Logical]

108. Old days your comment would be locked, now, not even worth alerting!

[Tarheel_Dem]

120. DI you've done it again!

[pnwmom]

30. He's still doing well in Electoral college predictions, and that's what will count in the end. nt

[cthulu2016]

32. You only posted this because you wanted to say "pulling a johnson"

C'mon... admit it.

[RBInMaine]

35. Either you are a TROLL, chronically negative, or have no sense of political reality. FOOLISH post.

[dionysus]

103. a spurned hillary supporter, who will never get over the primary loss...

[bigtree]

37. Johnson had serious doubts about his own ability as President

. . . not just some notion that he might lose.

It'll take more than a week or so of wishful thinking on the part of republicans and other Obama detractors to rattle our Democratic nominee. You guys crack me up tho . . .

[BeyondGeography]

38. Do something constructive

This ain't it.

[Surya Gayatri]

42. Silly, useless post. Damn, what happened to that "UNRECCOMMEND" button?

[kentuck]

44. What are the odds that Romney could defeat Obama?

50/50?
25%?
75%?

A snowball's chance?

[dems_rightnow]

46. 40-60

And there's nobody that could enter this late in the game and compete. Ridiculous post.

[quaker bill]

47. There is no other candidate to hand off to

his support within the party verges on 90 percent. There is a far less than zero chance.

[PCIntern]

48. WTF? Really? Here? Hmmm. n/t b/c I am speechless.

[spanone]

50. If he knows he is going to lose??? bwahahahahaa

[IMG][/IMG]

[treestar]

57. Very late to the primary Obama game

It's over. Obama is the candidate.



This is a whole new level of concern.

[MineralMan]

65. Please pull your Johnson somewhere more private.

Thanks.

[FarCenter]

66. Andrew Johnson????

[Iggo]

67. That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Yeah. Hand the RW the White House. That'll show 'em!


Oh and before I forget, you said "pull a johnson"...heheheh.

[slackmaster]

69. Well, Reagan said something about pulling a boner once

So pulling a Johnson would only make sense.

[boxman15]

71. Are you fucking serious?

How did LBJ "pulling a Johnson" work out in 1968? It would be a total fucking disaster if he decided to drop out right now. It would probably doom the Democratic Party for decades.

Also, Obama is the favorite to win this thing right now. Look at the Electoral College. Obama has several paths to victory, while Romney has virtually no margin for error. He has to win Ohio and Florida, otherwise he's toast. Obama can afford to lose both and still win.

Right now, I think Obama has a 65-70% chance of winning. Why the hell should he drop out?

[dionysus]

82. he tried to climb the stupid idea tree, fell, and hit every branch on the way down...

[Hatchling]

75. Why are you perpetrating a RW meme fostered by the (cough) "liberal" media?

This is the kind of nonsense post that depresses voter turnout opposed to those simply criticizing policies.

That is: if he's going to lose why bother?

Which is bs, thank you very much. After the WI loss, the base has had a wake up call and we are fired up more than ever.

Get off your computer and get out your check book. Volunteer. Talk to your friends, enemies and acquaintances with cogent facts. Don't sit here and whine: he's going to lose, waaaaah.

[HughBeaumont]

76. Watch V for Vendetta to see what "Scorched Earth" gets yer.

Man.

[dionysus]

83. this might be the dumbest OP in DU history.

[CreekDog]

93. The post or the poster?

[dionysus]

97. hard to differentiate.

[hughee99]

85. He'll probably do this after surrendering the US military to the Taliban. n/t

[Brigid]

90. I have seen some strange OP's around here . . .

But this has got to be the strangest. *scratches head*

[CreekDog]

91. same source probably

[Quantess]

95. He just wanted to say "pulling a johnson".

Hey Beavis. Yeah, Butthead?

[Honeycombe8]

94. There is no indication Obama will lose, so don't see the pt. of your negative post.

The evidence and polls so far shows the election will be close. Them's the facts.

You live in your fairy tale. I'll live in the real world.

[mmonk]

96. Things most likely are going to get worse, especially

for many of us where our state legislatures are now ALEC controlled and if the House remains in Tea Party hands. Worse seems inevitable no matter who controls the executive branch. The difference will be court appointees but economically, we will still be a basket case.

[lonestarnot]

99. I thought they cured polio in the 50's .

Are you working on bringing it back?

[CK_John]

101. WFT are you talking about????? Polio and running for a second term??

[jberryhill]

102. How long have you been this lame?

[lonestarnot]

109. LOL

[Tarheel_Dem]

122. Zing!!!!

[unkachuck]

104. no, pulling a Johnson will only make it harder....n/t

[RetroLounge]

107. The stupid, it burns

RL

[WI_DEM]

112. 'pull a Johnson' he-he that is funny!

[area51]

115. We're already in a Depression.

If you don't think 30.5% unemployment constitutes a Depression, I'm not sure what does.

[stevenleser]

116. YOUR CONCERN IS NOTED.

[dionysus]

118. kick for FAIL

[KamaAina]

119. Your concern is duly noted

[Tarheel_Dem]

123. I think the responses in this thread pretty say it all, except this!