Waitress assaulted on French Riviera for 'serving alcohol' on first day of holy month of Ramadan

[FLPanhandle]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/08/waitress-assaulted-on-french-riviera-for-serving-alcohol-on-firs/


A waitress in a cafe in central Nice has filed a police complaint after she was allegedly assaulted by two men because she refused to “stop serving alcohol” on the first day of the holy month of Ramadan.

The waitress, a French 30-year-old of Tunisian origin, said she was serving drinks at Monday lunch on the terrace of the Vitis Café on Nice’s rue Lamartine, near the rue d’Anglais, when two men started haranguing her, insulting the young woman because she was serving alcoholic beverages to customers.

“I was all alone in the bar when two passers-by suddenly appeared. They pointed to the bottles of alcohol behind the bar, then one of them told me in Arabic: ‘You should be ashamed of yourself serving alcohol in the Ramadan period.’

Ramadan traditionally begins the morning after the sighting of the crescent moon. Marking the divine revelation received by Prophet Mohammed, the month sees Muslim faithful abstain from eating, drinking, smoking and having sex from dawn to dusk.

They break the fast with a meal known as iftar and before dawn have a second opportunity to eat and drink during suhur. The month is followed by the Eid al-Fitr festival.

The waitress said one of the two men then shouted: “If I was God, I would have hung you.”

Unfazed by his threatening behaviour, the waitress shot back: “You’re not God to judge me.”

The men launched into a tirade, calling her a “dirty whore” and left the cafe in a hurry. A few seconds later, however, the venue's CCTV footage reportedly shows the two men turn round abruptly and one of them rush towards her and violently slap the waitress in the face, knocking her to the floor.

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Sickening. How long before women have to cover up on the beach in the fear of insulting religious beliefs?

[liberal N proud]

1. This is where I start to have problems with any religion

When you are trying to force others to follow your religious rituals then we have a problem.

You do your stuff and let the rest of the world do theirs.

[Major Nikon]

2. What's the point of organized religion if you can't force your dogma on others?

[Igel]

22. Works with any value system.

Religion is just values and beliefs about behavior with a garb of ritual centered or some deity. Remove the deity and what you get is little different in outplay, but we sometimes act like it's the presence of a deity that is the all-important factor.

"Organization" isn't necessary or adequate in defining the bad side of religion, since many secular organizations or political parties also want to force their "dogma" on others. Leaders exist in both secular and religious dogmatic organizations, and "dogma" for many is just the principles written down and codified, not subject to (easy) change.

Much of the resistance to having government out of religion was to protect beliefs from having others' impose on them; if you can ban Catholics or Jews or Muslims from power, or dictate what they teach, then you mute their influence in society. If you can ban a religion, you remove that particular set of values and force people to assimilate or suffer. We hate assimilation, unless we can force people to accept our views (then it's not called 'assimilation,' it's called 'wising up', a bit of linguistic hypocrisy and manipulation).

Some organizations have a hook into power and are hooked on what power they have. Much of the resistance to having religion out of government is to maintain the privilege of political and other secular organizations that have a role in power structures and who don't want more players in the game. This often extends into not wanting somebody to act on their values when holding office while defending the rights of others to act on theirs, or even saying that we need to have somebody of a certain stripe or ethnicity in power because it's important for them to act on those values.

[Major Nikon]

24. The difference is some value systems are based on reason

For most of recorded history, virtually all of government was controlled by organized religion. The central idea of the Age of the Enlightenment, of which our government is a product, is to value reason over the abuses of the church. I suppose you can float the idea that the real motivation was to hoard power away from the church, but I'm not sure how successful you'll be with that.

[struggle4progress]

53. For much of history, government has been controlled by strong-arms and their street thugs

But everybody always likes to have a nicer-sounding justification, like "Hail to our glorious warlord, who has given us such pretty flowers this spring!"

[whatthehey]

3. Religion had nothing to do with this

They were obviously just mentally ill, or following tribal culture suspiciously entirely contained within a religion although not at all influenced by it, or resentful of western imperialism, or desperate poverty-stricken third world peasants whom American foreign policy has left with no alternative but to patronize nice cafes on the Cote d'Azur. It's just impossible that religion motivates barbarity even when it is perpetrated by religious people citing religious motivation in accordance with long-standing religious dogma. This I have learned from DU apologists.

[FLPanhandle]

5. That pretty much summarizes the apologists

Throw in how bad Christians were hundreds of years ago and you would have nail it.

[DetlefK]

9. No God-fearing person would ever (insert crime here).

[Coventina]

10. Beat me to it. Spot on!!!

This clearly had nothing to do with Islam.....

[yeoman6987]

20. +1,000,000

[smirkymonkey]

35. Touche!

[awoke_in_2003]

43. +1000. nt

[Throd]

45. American Christians would do this (fill in the blank) too!

[whatthehey]

46. You think they don't do exact analogs?

A lower percentage surely, but far far from zero. I have myself been a victim of assault by Christian zealots. Less lucky people than myself and this waitress have been killed by both versions.

[leftynyc]

4. WHY do so many

feel it's their business how anyone else lives their lives? Find these cretins and lock them up. They aren't meant for civilized society.

[Igel]

23. Because they're human.

We feel it's our business how others live their lives.

How do you feel about some of the polygamist sects in Nevada?

How about somebody like my mother, an inveterate racist who'd never hire a black person to do anything near or around her and went so far as to avoid black employees at places like hair salons. If she went to a doctor and s/he turned out to be black, it would be a one-time visit. If she had a business she'd have refused to hire blacks. Hey, it's her life, why is it our business?

Yeah. Civilization imposes norms of behavior on people. It's what cultures do. It's sort of a good definition of culture, once you get beyond the food, fashion, festivals, and folklore that many people think of as the be-all of "culture."

[leftynyc]

25. Polygamy is against the law

So they're criminals. Your mother sounds like an old fashioned racist. What does this have to do with these cretins who felt so confident in the superiority of their beliefs, they assaulted a woman who didn't bend to them. If they can't deal with a society that is free, let them go to whatever shithole will have them.

[awoke_in_2003]

44. Yep...

they leave their little shitholes because they are shitholes, then want to make the place they move to just like home. If you can't keep your stupid Bronze Age beliefs to yourself, get out. That goes for fundie xtians in our country, too.

[leftynyc]

47. ALL religious freaks

work my last nerve. If they're very religious and live their lives and don't bother anyone, that suits me just fine but the second they move outside to try and control MY life - they're the enemy.

[awoke_in_2003]

48. I remember the 70s

People tended to keep religious talk to themselves, granted I lived in Ohio and not the bible belt. It started changing in the 80s. Yes, we have made progress in some areas, marriage equality for instance. But the rise of religion is troubling, especially if you're a woman who wants a say about her health choices.

[trotsky]

33. Except when you add a god to the mix, their "human" desires become divinely commanded.

That's the extra factor that religion brings to the table.

[Kelvin Mace]

6. Why are we citing the Telegraph?

A tabloid on par with TMZ at best, and Newsmax at worst.

[FLPanhandle]

7. I see your outrage is not directed at the assailants.

Interesting.

The same story has been picked up by most of the major news agencies.

Google it.

[Kelvin Mace]

12. Where do you see evidence of "outrage" in a post which asks a simple question?

If there are other non-rightwing sources for a story, cite them instead.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/muslim-waitress-assaulted-in-french-riviera-for-serving-alcohol-on-first-day-of-holy-month-of-a7072581.html

They report the story without bringing in commentary from the Le Penn crowd.

What these men did was assault and they will hopefully be arrested and convicted. Comparing the two stories between how it is written up in the Teleghraph versus the Independent we see one uses far more inflamatory language and makes claims without citing sources (one attacker is in the country illegally). When searched for on Google, the first sources are Daily Caller, Breitbart, RT (which claimed the woman was "beaten" as opposed to slapped), and Jihad Watch.

You picked the source. I am simply asking why you would pick a source that cannot be relied on to tell the truth and has a long history of "embellishing" stories.

[LuvLoogie]

29. "'beaten' as opposed to slapped"

You don't have any daughters, do you?

[snooper2]

8. Do a google search and you'll see the story all over- now that that point is over

I wish I would have been there so I could have kicked those two fucking fundie assholes in the balls..

Oh, and then have a couple shots and laugh at the POS

[Kelvin Mace]

13. Yes, mostly on rightwing sites

RT and Breitbart say the waitress was "beaten". When we post stories here, we do have an obligation to not cite unreliable sources. The basic issues seem to be true (a man slapped a waitress for serving alcohol on a "holy day" and verbally abused her), but RW sites used the most inflammatory language possible and some "facts" not found in more reliable accounts.

[FrodosPet]

15. Now that the discussions of source are over

What should we do about the problem of hyper-religious people attempting to impose their own values and religious interpretation on others?

Are we allowed to discuss the uncomfortable reality that Islamists are pushing back the social and moral gains of secularism? Or is the elimination of Islamophobia via censorship more important than the open and honest discussion of the conflicts between widespread strict interpretations of Islam and modern western values?

[Kelvin Mace]

17. They should be prosecuted just like anyone else

who commits assault.

As to problem with the hyper-religious, I favor treating "religious" types as delusional, possibly mentally ill, which works with most Americans until I point out that I mean "Christians" as well. In this country we suffer far more from Christian extermists than from Muslim extremists.

[Quantess]

18. In the US, yes. This happened in France.

The religious fundies in europe are nearly exclusively muslims.

[bighart]

21. And what we suffer in this country has boo

to do with the original post and nothing what-so-ever to do with the question you responded to.

At some point there will have to be a serious, reasoned and rational discussion of what can and should be done to protect the secular gains in society from fundamentalist from Islam and ANY OTHER religious group that attempts, by force, to make others comply with their religious beliefs, cultural customs or general bullshit overly sensitive sensibilities.

I say by force because there is not much that can be done to stop people from rallying others to their cause and attempting to make changes via legitimate electoral methods. When legislatures are taken over by those types and bad laws are passed all legal means to overturn them must be pursued. The key is voter education and turnout to not allow that to happen in the first place.

[Bluenorthwest]

11. It's a conservative boardsheet, nicknamed the Torygraph.

It's not in tabloid form and the paper in the UK that is most like TMZ or Newsmax would be The Daily Mail, a tabloid nicknamed 'The Daily Fail' or The Daily Mirror or The Sun.
Telegraph is archly conservative in a mainstream sort of way.

[Kelvin Mace]

14. True, I should be clearer

I was using "tabloid" in reference to its content (inflammatory language, innuendo, etc) rather than its form. I probably should have compared it to World Net Daily, or the Washington Times.

[Bluenorthwest]

31. That's not really accurate. They are a mainstream, widley read traditionally conservative newspaper

They are not like WND or the Washington Times. The UK has publications that are analogous with WND but that's not the Telegraph. A conservative PM would cite the Telegraph, it is conservative but respectably so. There are outlandishly right wing papers there, also far more tabloid style papers that do trade in innuendo and gossip. The Telegraph is just conservative. They are the William F Buckley of UK newspapers.

Compare front pages:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

https://www.thesun.co.uk/

http://www.mirror.co.uk/

[GoneOffShore]

19. Sorry, no. Their news reporting is spot on.

Always has been.

[Kelvin Mace]

36. In what universe?

The Telegraph has been conservative for quite some time. It is a Tory mouthpiece.

[KamaAina]

34. You must be thinking of the Daily Fail.

The Torygraph is stodgy, conservative, but legit.

[Kelvin Mace]

41. Stodgy and legit?

Just glancing at some of the headlines:

Sex robots to storm into the British bedroom within ten years

Low-fat diets and exercise are pointless for losing weight, warns surgical expert (Exercise is "pointless" for losing weight?)

Hope for multiple sclerosis cure as 23 seriously ill patients recover after 'breakthrough' stem cell treatment (Misrepresenting a Lancet article on a treatment with a small sample size (24 patients) and claiming 70% of patients got better, when the real number was 35%).

Khan caught yawning at Queen's service

How maths can boost your sex life – well into your 80s

How husband Piers surprised Celia Walden when she gave him a 'free pass' to sleep with one of her friends

£40k fur coat, £58k for two handbags and £4k for sunglasses: model Christina Estrada's staggering divorce demands for yearly 'needs'

[KamaAina]

42. Yikes! Did it change hands recently?

That does not sound like the Torygraph my boss from Nottingham used to read right before the turn of the century.

[Kelvin Mace]

50. That is pretty much what I have seen the last ten-twelve years

Though it has become more "tabloidy" in the last five or so.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

39. "Outrage"? I wonder, did you envision Kelvin Mace as jumping up and down and screaming to the...

...rafters about citing the Telegraph? Is that how you envisioned Kelvin Mace's demeanor before you crafted your response?

[MosheFeingold]

52. Would not be my first source

But there are a hundred sources (of all kinds) reporting the same thing:

http://www.thelocal.fr/20160608/muslim-barmaid-in-france-beaten-for-serving-alcohol-during-ramadan

(France)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3632174/Muslim-waitress-assaulted-south-France-serving-alcohol-day-Ramadan.html

(England -- Trigger warning, there are Kardashian pictures at link)

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11653499

(New Zealand)

http://arynews.tv/en/waitress-attacked-serving-alcohol-ramazan/

(Pakistan)

[greytdemocrat]

16. Kooks are kooks

These were Muslim kooks.

[leftynyc]

27. They're CRIMINALS

not kooks.

[anoNY42]

30. Why not both?

Plenty of prison studies have shown widespread mental health issues in criminal populations...

[leftynyc]

32. Shrug

Could be - that's for the doctor to decide - once they're locked up and out of society.

[TipTok]

26. Amazing how these things always eem to happen to women...

... And not the 260 lbs MMA fighter who is a waiter to pay the bills.

What a bunch of cowards who feel justified in all of this since gawd said it was ok.

[smirkymonkey]

37. Yes, interesting observation.

n/t

[ProfessorGAC]

49. I Would Pay To See That, Though

Would certainly make them think twice!

[stillwaiting]

28. Religious fundamentalists suck. All of them. nt

[awoke_in_2003]

38. The religion of peace

It is time we treated Bronze Age beliefs like what they are- ridiculous fairy tales that deserve no respect.

[Takket]

40. Fuck people who try to impose their religious beliefs on other cultures

Don't like the booze? Go live somewhere else.

[Squinch]

51. If she were a man, even a Muslim man, this would not have happened.

[Quantess]

54. Religious fundie males believe that their job is to keep women in line.

[NobodyHere]

55. Religion of Peace strikes again!