Whether you blame it on election fraud, corporate money.........

[socialist_n_TN]

bought media, or the idoicy of the voting public, they are setting it up to take the November elections and institute their fascist agenda. They'd rather just buy it, but they'll steal the election if they have to.

We're done with fair elections in this country until we take it back in the streets.

[Zax2me]

1. Done?! 2008 wasn't so bad.

And now it is over?
Don't think so.
More 2008's to come.
BANK on it.

[longship]

2. Follow the money!

Election fraud is minimal. WI went the way it went because that's the way people voted, and not enough people went to the polls.

Turnout can nullify any voter fraud. That's why November has to be a bellwether for Dem turnout. All, and I do mean all, of the statistics are in our favor. (Except Citizens United) But if Dems turn out, no amount of money will turn that around.

We have to keep a positive outlook and work our fucking tails off.

[socialist_n_TN]

3. Only if the votes are fairly counted........

I guess I have MUCH less faith than you that the votes are always fairly counted. And I don't think that they care anymore whether it looks like electoral fraud or not. When it happens nobody calls them on it anyway. If Romney wins by 10/15%, there will still be people who say that the voting was fair. Even people on here.

BTW, ELECTION fraud is NOT minimal. VOTER fraud is minimal.

At this point, we won't stop it at the ballot box. If they can't buy it, they'll steal it. When enough people get fed up enough that they just STOP feeding the beast that is capitalism, then we have a chance. But until a solid proportion of the people just stop working and stop paying bills, it won't change.

[longship]

4. Sorry, I can't go with grand conspiracy theories

The election process is watched by observers the entire way from polls to final count. What you are suggesting is that all these independent observers are corrupt.

D'ya know what happened in WI? We lost, and it wasn't close. Some people will ignore that fact and claim that just because Dems lost, it was stolen. Fucking rubbish. Did I mention that it wasn't close?

You have a high bar to jump over. Either cite some definitive data, or you have no case other the Dems lost, therefore Reps stole the election. That dog ain't gonna hunt.

Not every Rep win is evidence that they stole it. In particular, the margin has to be close enough to make it possible.

And do not mention on how all the voting machines are rigged. Fuck that. Dems lost because they lost. Get over it and move on.

Better yet, if you actually believe that Reps have rigged the machines, get to work on the ground so that our margin is larger than the fix. Or, better yet, volunteer as a poll watcher, or a count watcher.

Sheesh!

[socialist_n_TN]

5. Here......

"And do not mention on how all the voting machines are rigged. Fuck that. Dems lost because they lost. Get over it and move on."

But that's PRECISELY the reason I have no confidence in the vote counts. So fuck that. Until there some sort of transparency in that "proprietary" software used to run those machines, I WON'T have any confidence in the vote counting. You go ahead and trust RW companies to count your votes all you want. I won't.

As to your next to last paragraph: So we don't just have to WIN an election, we have to win it by a FAR greater margin just to overcome electoral fraud? Sure! That sounds like "democracy" to me.

I agree. Sheesh. What some people will believe IN SPITE OF HISTORY. I bet you think that the FBI wouldn't ever frame activists either don't you?

[longship]

7. No reports from the observers. None.

They were there all through our the process. Either cite your data, or you have no credible claim. The most plausible explanation of where those hundreds of thousands of votes came from is that people actually voted that way.

Are you saying that the Democratic party observers, and the US DOJ (which also had a presense), were in on the conspiracy?

I have been an observer myself on multiple occasions. It is precisely why election fraud is rare. And do you actually think that voting machines are not tested for accuracy and sealed during the election to prevent tampering?

Alas, Dems list in WI because Walker got the most votes. And didn't I say that it wasn't close?

Time to move on on this issue. Let it go. If you're worried about voter fraud, volunteer to poll watch, or to observe the counting.

[lunatica]

6. And all that money that came flooding into Walker to buy lying ads was on the up and up?

Scott Walker lied blatantly every time he opened his mouth and many millions of dollars paid for those ads.

Is that a conspiracy theory too? Or are we just choosing to decide he was lying?

How naive can you get?

[longship]

8. I don't believe that I mentioned money.

I specifically mentioned election (meaning voter) fraud which I dismissed due to the large margin. If there was fraud on that scale it would be evident and would be reported by the many Democratic party observers who are present at every step in the process.

The software, also is not suspect because the machines are tested to ensure accuracy. They are sealed on election day to detect any fraud.

Some people here don't like hearing that Dems lose an important election so they automagically turn to the stolen election meme.

Yes, the Repugs have taken advantage of Citizens United. But, there has been no reports from the field in WI to account vote counting fraud on the level required to account for Walker's majority.

I am done here.

[Doctor_J]

9. Come back to reality, please

Election fraud is minimal.

Election fraud is epidemic. Florida in 2000, Georgia in 2002, Ohio in 2004 were all blatant, and that was before they discovered that they can remove people from the voter rolls with complete impunity. Privatized unverifiable voting machines made by a Repuke company. This is not a "grand conspiracy theory". These are facts.

[RobertEarl]

10. Ahh, history

How can anyone in their right mind say election fraud does not exist?
The history shows they will stop at nothing.

And then if you look at who owns and programs the voting computers.
Well, hell. It is republicans who own the computers.

They have the winning keys, and hardly anybody questions all of that.
But when someone does they get labeled a conspiracy nut.
We are screwed.