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kpete

(71,991 posts)
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 09:18 AM Jun 2016

The Discredited Nonsense That Gave America The ‘More Guns, Less Crime’ Myth

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Indeed, research by Yale law professor Ian Ayres and Stanford law professor John Donahue corroborates this insight that the “more guns, less crime” hypothesis only stands up if you apply it to a limited time frame. Lott and Mustard’s original study only examined data from 1977 through 1992. Ayres and Donahue examined data from the late 1990s, after the wave of crack-related violence began to ebb, and found that crime dropped dramatically in urban areas without permissive carry laws. They conclude that “no longer can any plausible case be made on statistical grounds that shall-issue laws are likely to reduce crime for all or even most states” — and, indeed, their research suggests that permissive carry laws may increase crime rates.

So What Does The Data Really Show?

Even if Lott’s research is difficult to trust, the real answer to the question “do more guns lead to more crime” is surprisingly hard to determine. This is due, in no small part, to the fact that federal law imposes strict limits on federally-funded research into the causes of gun violence.

The data that does exist, however, suggests that Lott isn’t simply wrong, but that the opposite of his conclusions are actually true. Although the 2004 National Research Council report found that there is insufficient evidence to determine the impact of carry laws on crime, a subsequent study by Stanford researchers determined that “right-to-carry gun laws are linked to an increase in violent crime.” This study indicates that right-to-carry laws increase the rate of aggravated assault by 8 percent. Though it also suggests that such laws “are associated with an increase in rape and robbery,” this evidence for this claim is less strong.

Similarly, a 2013 report by the Center for American Progress found a strong correlation between lax gun laws and more gun violence. According to that report, “the 10 states with the weakest gun laws collectively have a level of gun violence that is more than twice as high — 104 percent higher — than the 10 states with the strongest gun laws.”

More guns, in other words, lead to more crime.




Way more, plus links:
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/06/13/3787491/discredited-nonsense-gave-america-guns-less-crime-myth/

11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Discredited Nonsense That Gave America The ‘More Guns, Less Crime’ Myth (Original Post) kpete Jun 2016 OP
Can't even come up with anything to say Aerows Jun 2016 #1
Right to carry is not "more guns." HassleCat Jun 2016 #2
Oh for all that is holy Aerows Jun 2016 #3
What if your attacker had a gun? hack89 Jun 2016 #4
What if I didn't have an attacker at all Aerows Jun 2016 #8
Fortunately other people in different situations have the ability to make their own choices hack89 Jun 2016 #11
Agreed. sarae Jun 2016 #7
It's always the same chorus Aerows Jun 2016 #9
There is no right to carry Major Nikon Jun 2016 #10
Most hypothesis only stand up to limited time frames. jmg257 Jun 2016 #5
Another NRA event Protalker Jun 2016 #6
 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
2. Right to carry is not "more guns."
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 09:22 AM
Jun 2016

Be careful here. The right to carry guns is not the same as "more guns." Let's use careful arguments and critical examination.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
3. Oh for all that is holy
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 09:34 AM
Jun 2016

Nobody needs to carry a hand gun. Do you have a stick to bash them in the head if you need to defend yourself? Use a stun gun, pepper spray and take a few Tae Kwon Do classes.

I know that argument I just lodged sounds pretty stupid, yet when it comes right down to it, guns in our society are a plague.

Disclosure: I was taught how to use a fire arm. There are people that use hunting to provide meat on the table.

That said, do we need, in society, guns that can be loaded with 100 rounds? Guns don't scare me. Irresponsible handling of guns scares the shit out of me.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
4. What if your attacker had a gun?
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 10:01 AM
Jun 2016

that stick, pepper spray or fancy ninja moves may not do the trick.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
8. What if I didn't have an attacker at all
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 10:48 AM
Jun 2016

and I shot and killed somebody that I misinterpreted their cues?

FFS, I *KNOW* how to shoot a gun, but I goddamn well don't need to tote one around to defend myself.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
11. Fortunately other people in different situations have the ability to make their own choices
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 11:07 AM
Jun 2016

Choice is good, right?

sarae

(3,284 posts)
7. Agreed.
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 10:18 AM
Jun 2016

Most Right-Wing gun nuts have self-aggrandizing fantasies of being the "good guy with a gun" hero. These idiots are putting everyone's lives in danger to feed their fragile egos.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
9. It's always the same chorus
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 10:50 AM
Jun 2016

How could you possibly defend yourself without a gun?

I've functioned just fine, don't get into confrontations if I can avoid them, and well, I'm extremely handy with the plethora of tools I need.

jmg257

(11,996 posts)
5. Most hypothesis only stand up to limited time frames.
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 10:02 AM
Jun 2016
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf

10 million background checks in 1999.
8.5 million in 2000
14 million in 2009
21 million in 2013
21 million in 2014.


Violent Crimes:
1998: 1,533,887
1999: 1,430,693
2009: 1,318,398
2013: 1,163,146
2014: 1,165,383


I would say a DRASTIC decrease in the number of guns would lead to a noticeable drop in gun violence, but overall, crime rates and the number of guns don't seem all that much related.

I am not sure people who want to carry concealed do so to reduce crime rates, just to reduce crimes against themselves.

Protalker

(418 posts)
6. Another NRA event
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 10:03 AM
Jun 2016

They would not support limited clips. Blood on all their members who support the top people hands.

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