My wife was just released from jury duty in a case involving Led Zeppelin.

[upaloopa]

She was sitting across from Jimmy Page and Robert Plant in the court room. She was excused from the Jury.

My wife wasn't even born yet when Stairway To Heaven was popular.

I told her on the phone "go back go back get on the jury!"

I had a girl friend in 1983 just before I met my wife who loved Robert Plant. Of course my wifr will never know about her. She is 17 years younger than me and doesn't want to know about my past.



Here is a story about the case.


Led Zeppelin plagiarism case: Jimmy Page and Robert Plant arrive in court



Robert Tait, Los Angeles

14 June 2016 • 7:26pm

Jimmy Page and Robert Plant, two of Led Zeppelin’s founder members, arrived in court in Los Angeles on Tuesday to defend themselves against accusations that Stairway to Heaven, the band’s most famous song, was plagiarised.

The pair appeared at the opening of a trial in a federal court case prompted by allegations that the song was a copy of Taurus, composed by the late Randy Wolfe and recorded by his band Spirit.

A trustee for Wolfe - who died in 1997 and was also known as Randy California - claims the musician deserves a partial song-writing credit on Stairway To Heaven, the opening cords of which is alleged to be based on his composition.

Michael Skidmore, the trustee, is also claiming unspecified damages.

Page, 72, and 67-year-old Plant - who cancelled a scheduled 19 June concert at London’s South Bank Centre to appear at the trial - cut very different figures from their fabled rock star images as they arrived in courtroom 850 of the Edward R Royal building in downtown Los Angeles.

Both men looked sombre in dark three-piece suits and had their trade-mark long hair tied back in pony tails.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/led-zeppelin-plagiarism-case-jimmy-page-and-robert-plant-arrive/

[KamaAina]

1. You're married to LynneSin?

[Coventina]

22. This definitely needs to be cross-posted to the Lounge!!!

[madinmaryland]

43. They're the toll-booth couple!!

[pinboy3niner]

2. "go back go back"

[Lochloosa]

5. IKR

[arely staircase]

34. i see what you there nt

[frazzled]

3. Why are they bringing this up 45 years after the fact?

I never understand these suits. And like most of the others, I'm pretty sure it won't go anywhere. Anyway, too bad your wife got dismissed from the jury--it would have been fun!

[dlwickham]

4. copyrights are good for up to 90 years I think

and you know that they're still making a mint off of the song; if the guy wins the suit, he'll get some of that money

[frazzled]

6. I realize that

It's just always odd that it would take someone 45 years to say "they stole it from my riff."

[PeaceNikki]

7. You mean his estate - the guy died almost 20 years ago.

[dlwickham]

21. maybe that's why it's taken so long

[rufus dog]

8. what I heard was the master was released in 2014

thus opening it up for a suit. After listening to the opening, I think Led Zep will be paying.

Also heard they were the opening act for Led Zep in 68 and played the song. Jimmy Page said he never heard the song.

[TexasBushwhacker]

10. Randy Wolfe had 25 years to sue and didn't

All I can figure is that the trustee is suing on behalf of Randy's survivors. He had at least one son. Randy drowned saving him.

[ManiacJoe]

9. Why was she released?

From what I have read in the news, Zep is going to lose just as they should.

[Bonx]

20. The suit is a joke and if Zep loses it would be ridiculous.

Here's Davy Graham playing the same riff as the Taurus riff in 1959:
Listen at 0:19 and 1:02.

[spanone]

27. you can bet it's not a joke for plant or page...

i've been involved in music litigation and they have already spend wads of money on depositions,

musicologists and lawyers, lawyers & lawyers.

plus you NEVER know how a jury will rule. if they lose, they'll be libel for millions.

[Bonx]

30. The merits of the case are a joke.

[spanone]

31. it merited enough to go to court. call it what you will, everyone's sweating.

[Bonx]

32. Making it to court just shows how fucked up the legal system is.

And how little it should be trusted.

[arely staircase]

36. you think that song is Stairway to Heaven?

It isn't.

[Bonx]

38. No I don't.

Read more carefully and pay closer attention.

[arely staircase]

45. I hear the clear similariity in the first four chords.

Four chords in a dynamic song (StH) with dramatic changes in chord structure, tempo, harmony, melody and just about every other aspect. Even if the first four chords were completely indentical, and they are not, it would still be a shit case.

[upaloopa]

29. I don't know yet. My wife is on her way home from LA now.

[arely staircase]

11. Page and Plant "borrowed" a lot of their work (and turned it into something unique usually)

But they didn't lift the Spirit song. They have similarities but they are different. Now Willie Dixon had a real case against them and they had to give him/his estate songwriting credits.

Fact is Page/Plant, Clapton and The Stones are the reason Delta Blues is still listened to. It was dead before they revived interest in it.

Edited to say: Cool story bro'. But sincerely, that is a cool story even if she didn't get on the jury. That is a family story for generations now for y'all.

[brett_jv]

12. The opening chords? That song has like 6 major 'passages' I can think of offhand

And it's like an 8 minute song, part of it's fame derived from it's 'epic' structure, like a bunch of chapters of a book.

There is no WAY you could convince me it's plagiarized based on similarity of the first set of chords, even if they were the same chords and played the same way. THat's like 1/10 of the song, and there's not even vocals in it. I don't think anyone can claim ownership of a chord progression, pretty sure there has to be lyrics involved as well.

That said Zep has been gouged for $$$ for plagiarism in the past, such as by Willie Dixon and I think by either Muddy, or Howlin' Wolf I forget which, maybe 1 or 2 others. They did rip lots of small pieces of old blues and early rock songs and put their lyrics into stuff on Zep I & II, primarily.

Some of them did have some merit, such as the claim that "whole lotta love" plagiarized "you need love" ... there's a clear lifting of lyrics involved in these ... but to not my knowledge they're not even sung over the same chords. IOW 'chords' is a LOT harder to prove plagiarism with.

[arely staircase]

15. Willie Dixon's case was legit imho

This Spirit case is crap - for the reasons you describe. The opening chords have a vague similarity. The rest of the two songs are completely different. And as you said StH's building to its climax is what makes it what it is. it is the reason such a long song became a radio staple. This is common knowledge and can be backed up be decades of reviews and current day music theorists.

[brett_jv]

18. Check my edit ;)

Added before I read your posts

[arely staircase]

24. yeah, that is about right.

Robert Johnson's Travelling Riverside Blues (a cover of which they released in the 90s) was the source of the Lemon Song's famous lyrical passage regarding juice and legs and whatnot. Don't think his estate ever sued though. Could be wrong. Of course there is this:

[yallerdawg]

13. It's only rock 'n' roll!

There aren't that many chords and progressions. Starting with Bach!

[arely staircase]

19. the opening line in that bach piece is right out of a nine inch nails song

other way around of course.

go to 5:41

don't go at all if you are offended by graphic lyrics

[PufPuf23]

14. Taurus - Spirit / Stairway to Heaven

I was a huge fan of Spirit in high school and saw them 3X, twice at Fillmore West and once at Winterland, in San Francisco 1968 to 1970. The concert at Winterland was Halloween 1970 and Spirit was 2nd billed to Ike and Tina Turner Review. I have not seen live rock and roll since late Summer 1994 when I saw Spirit in a bar in Eureka, CA; the only two original members were Randy California and Ed Cassidy, the drummer and California's step father.

Spirit and Led Zeppelin toured together on LZ's first tour of the USA in 1969 several years prior to recording Stairway to Heaven. Spirit had already released Taurus on their first album. I can see how Taurus may have influenced Stairway to Heaven but think the argument for plagiarism is weak and way too late and there are only so many combinations of notes in blues-derived rock and roll.

Prior to forming Spirit, Randy California had played rhythm guitar in Jimi Hendrix's band prior to the Jimi Hendrix Experience. Hendrix tagged Randy Wolfe with Randy "California" as there were two Randy's in the band. Cassidy was an experienced jazz drummer who had also been in a prior band with Taj Mahal and Randy California's biological father owned a music venue in Los Angeles so he had experienced music all his life.

Taurus was on Spirit's first album entitled "Spirit" that was released in January 1968.

Stariway to Heaven was on Led Zeppelin's fourth album intitled "Led Zeppelin IV" released November 1971.

The first half of the following clip is Spirit's Taurus; the second half is Led Zeppelin's Stairway to Heaven.

[arely staircase]

16. nice post. nt

[PufPuf23]

28. Thank you. Here is a nice recent article from Rollingstone about the trial and Spirit.

There is an assortment of good Spirit music clips at the link.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/who-were-spirit-the-band-from-led-zeppelins-stairway-trial-20160610

[brett_jv]

17. Not to nitpick, but it's 'known' as Led Zeppelin IV, but that's not the title ...

The title is 'Led Zeppelin', just like Led Zeppelin 'I' was called. One could argue the set of 4 symbols is it's title though as well.

We use Led Zeppelin 'IV' like we use the term 'The White Album', which is actually 'The Beatles'

[PufPuf23]

23. The first four albums by Led Zeppelin are the four Led Zeppelin albums I purchased

so long ago.

You are correct.

[arely staircase]

25. yeah. I knew a guy who insisted on calling it Zoso.

Drove me nuts.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

26. Has anyone listened to Taurus?

I never had before, but did Led Zeplin?

"They acknowledge opening for Spirit on a 1969 tour but insist they had very little interaction with the band."

Not sure what interaction with the band has to do with it. Did they hear Taurus or not?
I wonder what guidance would the jury be given for deciding if similarity rises to the level of plagiarism.

Here is Spirit's recording of Taurus.

The part similar to Stairway to Heaven begins at 45 seconds.

Here is a comparison, emphasizing the similarity.

[PufPuf23]

33. The Spirit album in you post is a "best of" album plus several unreleased

songs released in 1984.

Taurus was on the album "Spirit" released in 1968.

Here is a youtube of the entire 1968 album.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

35. I only posted the song in question, not an album.

Is there something different, relevant to the case, in the link you posted?

If so, please say what, because I don't have time to listen to an entire album to find out.

[PufPuf23]

39. Song is the same. Nothing relevant to case and no intent to diminish your post.

I was so much a fan a Spirit that thought someone might be interested in a listen.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

40. Oh, OK. Thanks for clarifying.

Maybe I'll check it out at another time.

[clarice]

37. Although I like much of their stuff....the allegations of um...borrowing others music...

has always haunted The Zepp. They were especially fond of the early blues standards. Perhaps I;'m wrong..
but I have never heard that they re-numerated those old black singers in any way. Would like to be proven wrong.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

41. I thought maybe you were coining a phrase, but just a typo I guess.

Remunerate vs. renumerate

To remunerate is to pay for goods, services, or losses. The word’s root is related to money (hence mune), not number.1 Renumerate is a common misspelling. At least one dictionary lists the latter as an actual word meaning to recount, but in every instance that we can find, renumerate is just a misspelling of remunerate.2

http://grammarist.com/spelling/remunerate-renumerate/

At any rate, well, there would be no rate, because very few of those guys got paid for the songs that were stolen from them. Even in cases where it was outright theft.

[clarice]

42. I stand corrected O Grammarelectrotron..seriously though..I was unaware of the distinction. nt

[JI7]

44. why don't they just settle it ? haven't they settled a bunch of other cases ?