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FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 09:07 PM Jun 2012

Children go back to basics in maths (UK)

Ministers will this week announce key tasks pupils are expected to master at each age under wide-ranging plans to counter more than a decade of dumbing down in schools.

A draft mathematics curriculum suggests that five and six year-olds will be expected to count up to 100, recognise basic fractions and memorise the results of simple sums by the end of the first year of compulsory education.

In the second year, they will be required to know the two, five and 10 times tables, add and subtract two-digit numbers in their head and begin to use graphs.

The proposals are intended to ensure that children are given a proper grounding in the basics at a young age to prepare them for the demands of secondary education and beyond.

It represents a dramatic toughening up of standards demanded in English state schools in a move designed to benchmark lessons against those found in the world’s most advanced education systems, such as Singapore, Hong Kong and parts of the United States.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/9323340/Children-go-back-to-basics-in-maths.html

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Children go back to basics in maths (UK) (Original Post) FarCenter Jun 2012 OP
Wow, I didn't realize such basic stuff stopped being required. valerief Jun 2012 #1
You have no idea how bad it is unless you have kids or are teacher lunasun Jun 2012 #4
Baloney proud2BlibKansan Jun 2012 #15
Read highly used curriculums like everyday mathmatics 2 see how this is being accomplished&tested lunasun Jun 2012 #20
Michelle Malkin is now an authority on curriculum? proud2BlibKansan Jun 2012 #22
MichelleMalkin knows NOTHING about education demtenjeep Jun 2012 #23
You'd normally be 7 by the end of American first grade, wouldn't you? muriel_volestrangler Jun 2012 #12
Kindergarteners can count to 100 by the end of the year proud2BlibKansan Jun 2012 #16
The OP is about British schools proud2BlibKansan Jun 2012 #14
"...and parts of the United States." PSPS Jun 2012 #2
Yes, I liked that -- it was one of the reasons that I posted the article FarCenter Jun 2012 #3
My observation about math class at the elementary level exboyfil Jun 2012 #5
You're partly right, but not completely. MineralMan Jun 2012 #17
For science, a student needs math Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2012 #6
Why do you think this is? exboyfil Jun 2012 #7
Elementary and middle school teachers teach to the test Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2012 #8
and I noticed in subjects like Sociall studies/history/science they are just studying lunasun Jun 2012 #21
you are WRONG and it is Social Studies demtenjeep Jun 2012 #24
My sister in law and a friend are public school teachers so it is not just parents who see it lunasun Jun 2012 #25
When I was 43 years old and taking calculus at my junior college, SheilaT Jun 2012 #9
I guess I am going to figure out if my exboyfil Jun 2012 #10
A big factor in success in elementary and high school is how precocious the child is FarCenter Jun 2012 #11
I'm an old geezer, so I went through school in the 50s and early 60s. MineralMan Jun 2012 #13
I am in favor of the traditional methods Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2012 #19
I suppose math may have some minor role in society 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #18

valerief

(53,235 posts)
1. Wow, I didn't realize such basic stuff stopped being required.
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 09:18 PM
Jun 2012

I remember in my U.S. grammar school days (back when corporations wanted to employ Americans), we were expected to master addition in the first grade, subtraction in the second, multiplication and division in the third, and fractions in the fourth. By the fourth grade, we had all the times tables memorized.

Here's a puzzle I was the first to solve in my fifth grade class:

25 x 25 = 625
35 x 35 = 1225
45 x 45 = 2025
55 x 55 = 3025
65 x 65 = 4225

I'll stop there. How was I able to figure out the answers without performing standard calculations?

It can't be done unless you know your times tables.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
4. You have no idea how bad it is unless you have kids or are teacher
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 09:59 PM
Jun 2012

It is truly set up to keep the child from mastering math
All abstract crap that takes 15 mins. to answer >what is 25X25?
Again this summer will be outside source learning to make up for what was not learned during the school season
But how many go that far I do not know .
I hope some states here catch on.
Some I know do not want to!

proud2BlibKansan

(96,793 posts)
15. Baloney
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 10:06 AM
Jun 2012

This is already required in US schools:

A draft mathematics curriculum suggests that five and six year-olds will be expected to count up to 100, recognise basic fractions and memorise the results of simple sums by the end of the first year of compulsory education.


So is this:

In the second year, they will be required to know the two, five and 10 times tables, add and subtract two-digit numbers in their head and begin to use graphs.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
20. Read highly used curriculums like everyday mathmatics 2 see how this is being accomplished&tested
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 01:16 PM
Jun 2012

Do you know what math curriculum your child is being taught? Are you worried that your third-grader hasn’t learned simple multiplication yet? Have you been befuddled by educational jargon such as “spiraling,” which is used to explain why your kid keeps bringing home the same insipid busywork of cutting, gluing and drawing? And are you alarmed by teachers who emphasize “self-confidence” over proficiency while their students fall further and further behind? Join the club.

Across the country, from New York City to Seattle, parents are wising up to math fads like “Everyday Math.” Sounds harmless enough, right? It’s cleverly marketed as a “University of Chicago” program. Impressive! Right? But then you start to sense something’s not adding up when your kid starts second grade and comes home with the same kindergarten-level addition and subtraction problems — for the second year in a row.

And then your child keeps telling you that the teacher isn’t really teaching anything, just handing out useless worksheets — some of which make no sense to parents with business degrees, medical degrees and Ph.D.s specializing in econometric analysis. And then you notice that it’s the University of Chicago education department, not the mathematics department, that is behind this nonsense.

And then you Google “Everyday Math” and discover that countless moms and dads just like you — and a few brave teachers with their heads screwed on straight — have had similarly horrifying experiences. Like the Illinois mom who found these “math” problems in the fifth-grade “Everyday Math” textbook:

A. If math were a color, it would be –, because –.
B. If it were a food, it would be –, because –.
C. If it were weather, it would be –, because –.

And then you realize your child has become a victim of “Fuzzy Math,” the “New New Math,” the dumbed-down, politically correct, euphemism-filled edu-folly corrupting both public and private schools nationwide.

And then you feel like the subject of Edvard Munch’s “The Scream” as you take on the seemingly futile task of waking up other parents and fighting the edu-cracy to restore a rigorous curriculum in your child’s classroom.

“The curriculum’s failure was undeniable: Not one of my students knew his or her times tables, and few had mastered even the most basic operations; knowledge of multiplication and division was abysmal. . . . what would you do, if you discovered that none of your fourth-graders could correctly tell you the answer to four times eight?”

But don’t give up and don’t give in. While New York City remains wedded to “Everyday Math” (which became the mandated standard in 2003), the state of Texas just voted before Thanksgiving to drop the University of Chicago textbooks for third-graders. School board members lambasted the math program for failing to prepare students for college. It’s an important salvo in the math wars because Texas is one of the biggest markets for school textbooks. As Texas goes, so goes the nation.

Meanwhile, grass-roots groups such as Mathematically Correct (mathematicallycorrect.com) and Where’s The Math? (wheresthemath.com) are alerting parents to how their children are being used as educational guinea pigs. And teachers and math professionals who haven’t drunk the p.c. Kool-Aid are exposing the ruse. Nick Diaz, a Maryland educator, wrote a letter to his local paper:

“As a former math teacher in Frederick County Public Schools, I have a strong interest in the recent discussion of the problems with the math curriculum in our state and county. . . . The proponents of fuzzy math claim that the new approach provides a ‘deep conceptual understanding.’ Those words, however, hide the truth. Students today are not expected to master basic addition, subtraction and multiplication. These fundamental skills are necessary for a truly deep understanding of math, but fuzzy math advocates are masters at using vocabulary that sounds good to parents, but means something different to educators.”

Members of the West Puget Sound Chapter of the Washington Society of Professional Engineers also stepped forward in their community:

“For 35 years, we have been subjected to a failed experiment, ‘new math.’ Mathematics depends on individual problem-solving ability to arrive at the correct answer. Math does not lend itself to ‘fuzzy’ answers. The solution is to recognize the failure of the Constructivist Curriculum as it relates to mathematics and science, eliminate it and return to the hard core basics using texts like the Singapore Math.”

http://michellemalkin.com/2007/11/28/fuzzy-math-a-nationwide-epidemic/

This is one of hundreds of parent awakenings and it starts for a new parent everyday so when you order your 1/2 lb of baloney at the store these kids are working for and you liked the way they were being taught so much then just take what ever color meat they give you!! Cuz this is not Baloney

FYI>All straight A's in all subjects all year = the summer classes are because of the lack of education not to review of what was taught in classrooms

proud2BlibKansan

(96,793 posts)
22. Michelle Malkin is now an authority on curriculum?
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 01:58 PM
Jun 2012


I stand by my original comments. The expectations mentioned in the OP are still required in schools in the USA.

And yes, I know what is in our Math curriculum. I have actually written curriculum. Michelle Malkin has not.

On edit: I have actually taught the Everyday Math program and I like it. But like any Math program, it's not comprehensive. That's also true for Reading programs, Science programs, etc. All good teachers use other resources to supplement the material in Everyday Math. The Math curriculum in my district uses multiple resources, not just one textbook. Most people who don't work in education don't understand that. One textbook in any subject never meets the curriculum requirements. To zero in on that one textbook or program and criticize it is just ignorant. But I expect nothing but ignorance from Michelle Malkin.
 

demtenjeep

(31,997 posts)
23. MichelleMalkin knows NOTHING about education
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 02:26 PM
Jun 2012

she is just spouting off what someone probably in the Bush family told her to say to advance their profits due to their education package

muriel_volestrangler

(101,312 posts)
12. You'd normally be 7 by the end of American first grade, wouldn't you?
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 09:56 AM
Jun 2012

In the UK, that's Year 2 - where "they will be required to know the two, five and 10 times tables, add and subtract two-digit numbers in their head and begin to use graphs". They are asking quite a lot of them at that age. It says "will be expected to count up to 100, recognise basic fractions and memorise the results of simple sums by the end of the first year" - that's the kindergarten year in the US.

proud2BlibKansan

(96,793 posts)
16. Kindergarteners can count to 100 by the end of the year
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 10:08 AM
Jun 2012

Most can also count by 2s, 5s and 10s.

I've taught elementary school for over 30 years. These are not unreasonable expectations.

proud2BlibKansan

(96,793 posts)
14. The OP is about British schools
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 10:04 AM
Jun 2012

I'm an elementary teacher in the US and I can assure you the requirements mentioned in the article have never been removed from our curriculum.

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
3. Yes, I liked that -- it was one of the reasons that I posted the article
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 09:54 PM
Jun 2012

Wonder which parts of the United States they had in mind?

Of course, it also makes the contrast that curriculum content is set nationally in the UK.

exboyfil

(17,863 posts)
5. My observation about math class at the elementary level
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 10:46 PM
Jun 2012

is that it is geared in our community to work most closely with those who are struggling most at the expense of the better students (I am not complaining - I am merely observing). Several patterns happen with the better students: In some cases small accelerated groups form on their own and they are basically left alone to progress on their own (my neighbor's boy took this approach - he just finished Calculus I as a 11th grader). The second group (my children) stayed with the class, excelled at the work presented, but actually got behind when compared to peers at other elementaries. My first daughter was not placed in PreAlgebra in 7th grade because of this approach (she skipped PreAlgebra once she got better math instruction at the Junior High but she still feels the effects of not having exposure to some topics in PreAlgebra). I made sure my second daughter did not miss PreAlgebra in 7th grade but it required much intervention on my part to make it happen (I think the two teachers involved in the placement decision were out to deny my daughter this opportunity - she got the 3rd highest grade in Honors Algebra I as an 8th grader so they were obviously wrong in their assessment). The third group are the average math performers (those who will take Algebra I in 9th grade in our school system). The final group gets a bunch of intervention (they have basically two math class periods at the middle school level to bring them up in performance).

I think a lot of junk has been brought into math curriculum that has actually made the situation worse. Perhaps it helps the kids who need more help, but it confuses the students like my daughters (like do we really need the lattice method when other methods used for hundreds of years have worked just as well). Teaching concepts especially the ability to estimate in your head is very important, but drilling still is an essential component of math education. It is not fun - never will be fun - but it is essential. I wish parents could opt out of the crazy crap like Everyday Mathemathics - let the parents decide whether to go that route or have one section with traditional instruction. I don't expect the school system to offer extra resources with my children (they rightly should focus on the struggling students), but they should get traditional disciplined math instruction. They will do fine with that.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
17. You're partly right, but not completely.
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 10:17 AM
Jun 2012

Drilling and memorization didn't work for everyone when it was used. There were tons of kids in my 1950s elementary school classes who didn't get math, and they were using traditional teaching techniques exclusively. Math is conceptual in nature. Some kids need to understand the concepts before they can really learn. Some drilling and that kind of thing is necessary, but that and rote techniques for doing arithmetical procedures aren't the answer for some kids.

The problem is that whatever system is used to teach math, some kids aren't going to prosper with that system.

I remember when fractions were introduced to us in elementary school. I remember a teacher standing up in front of the room and defining terms. Numerator, denominator? WTF did that mean? That was the beginning of kids failing to understand the concepts required to calculate using fractions. Some kids got it. Many did not. Fractions aren't hard to understand, but the teaching techniques of the 1950s, based on rote and fixed methods, didn't help a lot of kids understand what they were doing.

Today, conceptual understanding is being taught, but the necessary, but boring practical methods aren't so much. So, some kids still get fractions, and others don't. It's more evidence that a single-minded approach only works for part of the group. I don't have a solution.

Rosa Luxemburg

(28,627 posts)
6. For science, a student needs math
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 11:07 PM
Jun 2012

Many high school students are incapable of drawing a graph correctly, do long division, fractions, multiplication of numbers with decimals etc. Some cannot even measure using a ruler! It is appalling.

Rosa Luxemburg

(28,627 posts)
8. Elementary and middle school teachers teach to the test
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 12:01 AM
Jun 2012

teachers have to teach to a test so students don't get enough time in class to master the content. Many of the students aren't interested.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
21. and I noticed in subjects like Sociall studies/history/science they are just studying
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 01:39 PM
Jun 2012

10 talking points (writer's choice by the way) to test on,instead of a continuous study of a subject.....even simple ones..

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
25. My sister in law and a friend are public school teachers so it is not just parents who see it
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 03:41 PM
Jun 2012

Of course both have young children so they are concerned

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
9. When I was 43 years old and taking calculus at my junior college,
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 01:50 AM
Jun 2012

and doing reasonably well in it, on several occasions I stopped other math teachers I knew at that school to tell them how well I was doing in calc, and marvelling that I was doing so well at such an advanced age.

To a person they said, "Oh, Sheila, what you don't realize is that math is developmental." They went on to explain that a lot of high school students, even fairly bright ones, are simply not ready for calculus at 16 or 17 or even 18. Their brains aren't quite ready for it. Let's simply ignore the genuine math geniuses out there who do calculus at age 12, because those people are true anomalies, NOT a model for what other math students should be.

Ever since then, when I have the chance to talk to high school students, I tell them my little story, and assure them that it's okay if they're not ready to do calculus in high school. They'll probably be ready for it in college.

Here's more. In high school I was in a phenomenally wonderful math program called UICSM, which stood for University of Illinois Committee on School Mathematics. Anyone ever heard of it? I didn't think so. It was an AMAZING program. It started out slow, and then covered an incredible amount of stuff. We were actually in calculus by the end of the third year. We did stuff that when I describe it to math teachers, they'll say, "Oh, yes, that's Finite Math and you don't normally get that until college." We proved EVERYTHING. As a consequence, I remember a lot of content from the course, and more than thirty years after my last high school math class, I tested in to Algebra 2 at my junior college. Got a B in that class, then an A in college algebra, then I decided to take statistics because I thought it would be useful and got an A, and then took calculus because I was enjoying math so much. Got a B in the calc, and then decided not to go on.

It is so important to spend the right amount of time on the basics. I don't know if they're still wasting time teaching kids base 5 and base 8 math -- something that my younger brother and sister got which I think truly takes away from what they really need to know.

Math is important, although as I told my algebra 2 teacher at the junior college, "I know for a fact that in my day to day life as a mom I will never use this stuff," I did love exercising my brain. Every so often I will come across a problem of some kind that I actually try to solve using what I recall of algebra. If you give me some paper and a pencil and about ten minutes or so, I can derive the Farenheit to Celsius and the Celsius to Farenheit conversions.

What I did love about my calculus class was that by the end of the semester I could look around me and realize that nearly everything I saw could be thought of as a calculus problem.

exboyfil

(17,863 posts)
10. I guess I am going to figure out if my
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 06:26 AM
Jun 2012

16 year old will be able to do Calculus in August. She will be a 1 1/2 years younger than me when I first learned it. Her foundation is stronger for Calculus than mine, and she has me to assist her.

You are right about Calculus. So many real world problems are solvable with it, and you get to understand where those crazy physics formulas come from.

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
11. A big factor in success in elementary and high school is how precocious the child is
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 09:51 AM
Jun 2012

And a significant problem is the regimentation that makes students progress in a group according to a calendar, instead of individually according to their mastery of the prerequisites and the content of the course.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
13. I'm an old geezer, so I went through school in the 50s and early 60s.
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 10:02 AM
Jun 2012

Math was taught in very traditional ways, using rote memorization and other such strategies. I was a whiz at it. I was lucky. Not everyone was a whiz at math. I imagine that's still true.

A couple of my teachers in elementary school recognized that math wasn't something I struggled with, and asked if I could help a couple of kids who were struggling. So, I did. The problem those kids had turned out to be conceptual problems. I didn't know what I was doing at the time, but I kept trying different ways of explaining things until I found one that made sense to them. I was a kid. I thought like a kid. That helped. It helped me, too, because figuring out different ways to explain something taught me a lot of things I hadn't been taught.

There are many approaches to understanding mathematics, but not all of them work for everyone. Teachers faced with a classroom of 30+ students simply do not have the time to figure out what approach works for individual students, so they typically just follow the curriculum and teach math using whatever approach that curriculum calls for. Some kids get it. Some kids don't get it, but might get it using a different approach.

Teaching to a test works for some kids, but not for others. Sadly, we don't address the issues of individual students, but try to make one approach work for all.

Rosa Luxemburg

(28,627 posts)
19. I am in favor of the traditional methods
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 12:03 PM
Jun 2012

I know that they worked for us many years ago and they are still there. Today's children do not have that math base and the teacher just moves on because he/she knows they have to finish that particular unit by a certain time. I encourage students to go to coach class after of before school.

 

4th law of robotics

(6,801 posts)
18. I suppose math may have some minor role in society
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 11:00 AM
Jun 2012

but have they stopped to consider the devastating effect this may have on their self-esteem if they fail to master a difficult subject?

Considering that the niche benefits of being able to count and recognize fractions cannot be considered more valuable than the healthy self-esteem that comes from never being intellectually challenged in your life.

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