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kentuck

(111,094 posts)
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 08:12 AM Jun 2016

I think the British people are leading the 'revolution'....

...against income inequality and global economics. They are tired of their jobs shipped to wherever the labor is the cheapest. They blame immigration for most of their domestic turmoil.

There are probably more Americans, than we wish to think, that believe in a similar way.

People talk about a "change" election. It is difficult for an establishment figure to win in such a political environment. In my opinion, Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are the embodiment of "change" candidates.

That is why Hillary needs every vote she can garner to win this upcoming race. She needs Bernie voters and everyone else she can get. The Catch-22 is that it will very difficult to accomplish with moderate positions on the issues. People want change. How can Hillary convince these voters that she stands for change?

We should not follow the polls too closely. Donald Trump could very easily win the White House. There is no room for complacency.

That's the way I see it.

81 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I think the British people are leading the 'revolution'.... (Original Post) kentuck Jun 2016 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #1
Don't you understand? Economics doesn't matter. The stock market doesn't matter. randome Jun 2016 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #25
Mathematics || Spoken Word by @holliepoetry Xipe Totec Jun 2016 #2
That was so fucking awesome. sufrommich Jun 2016 #3
Unfortunately... kentuck Jun 2016 #5
I liked that Dem2 Jun 2016 #39
Kick & recommend for this post alone davekriss Jun 2016 #41
Thank you! mia Jun 2016 #62
Hollie McNish is my heroine nt Xipe Totec Jun 2016 #63
The UK is going to be forced to renegotiate the trade agreements with a gun to their head. joshcryer Jun 2016 #4
They see the trade deals and agreements between the nations as the problem... kentuck Jun 2016 #7
sorry but if mentioned TTIP to 100 people here PaulaFarrell Jun 2016 #10
On the surface, it is about immigration and nationalism... kentuck Jun 2016 #13
The third world isn't seeing trade as a "race to the bottom" sufrommich Jun 2016 #17
Exactly! kentuck Jun 2016 #18
Then why not just admit that you want your place on sufrommich Jun 2016 #22
I never stopped saying it. Chan790 Jun 2016 #34
I don't think Americans or Brits or anyone else should lose their place on the "food chain" ... kentuck Jun 2016 #72
EXACTLY ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #78
But I thought you said this was a vote "against inequality" jberryhill Jun 2016 #52
That is not equality... kentuck Jun 2016 #71
Middle class is being exported they have it at your expense Ohioblue22 Jun 2016 #30
no sadly its not PaulaFarrell Jun 2016 #31
This message was self-deleted by its author AntiBank Jun 2016 #56
How else do they buy and sell stuff without trade agreements? joshcryer Jun 2016 #12
People will still buy the BMWs or Aston Martins if they want them... kentuck Jun 2016 #15
The UK gets pushed into the DCFTA zone. joshcryer Jun 2016 #19
They lost tens of billions in the market! Pension funds took yet another hit! Inflation is coming! randome Jun 2016 #29
BMW is german n/t PaulaFarrell Jun 2016 #35
Canadian snooper2 Jun 2016 #55
it's called Bavarian motor works for a reason PaulaFarrell Jun 2016 #64
technically Slovakian snooper2 Jun 2016 #70
If the Parliament does not stop this madness.... Adrahil Jun 2016 #43
I can see a way out. joshcryer Jun 2016 #44
I agree. I'm really hoping that happens! NT Adrahil Jun 2016 #46
Two problems with that: Ghost Dog Jun 2016 #54
Ooh, I didn't know that. joshcryer Jun 2016 #67
Internal Tory Party election only, Ghost Dog Jun 2016 #69
If it's a revolution, it's not going to lead anywhere you're (we're) likely to want to end up. Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #6
Maybe? kentuck Jun 2016 #8
I don't often make such wide-ranging predictions, Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #9
Turkeys also voted for NAFTA... kentuck Jun 2016 #11
My intuition is that if we end up with any sort of stable government in the UK Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #14
A lot of damage has been done to the lives of average Brits... kentuck Jun 2016 #16
Overlook it? Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #23
The Conservative Party has a lot to answer for, if that's what you mean. TubbersUK Jun 2016 #28
The damage was mostly due to domestic politics, not the EU. Adrahil Jun 2016 #45
Indeed, labor got gutted. joshcryer Jun 2016 #20
Thanks, you get it. Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #51
Never have helped the working class. Chan790 Jun 2016 #36
Exactly TubbersUK Jun 2016 #21
Sadly... Chan790 Jun 2016 #37
You're getting your UK parties mixed up - have a bit of a read. n/t TubbersUK Jun 2016 #40
Maybe. Chan790 Jun 2016 #75
Yes, the parliamentary Labour Party is in total disarray TubbersUK Jun 2016 #77
They want to "take their country back" like Trump supporters do upaloopa Jun 2016 #26
It was an ill-advised referendum conceived by a gutless politician BeyondGeography Jun 2016 #27
I'd like a better job and improved neighborhood. Igel Jun 2016 #32
The average voter is being talked down to by technocrats and bureaucrats Ex Lurker Jun 2016 #68
Post removed Post removed Jun 2016 #33
+1...nt SidDithers Jun 2016 #50
You still agree with the removed post? kentuck Jun 2016 #73
This message was self-deleted by its author B Calm Jun 2016 #57
If their Brexit vote is BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #38
Here's Boris Johnson, frontrunner for next PM, on his plans: muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #42
Oh, PLEASE make this its own OP. Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #61
It also contains either a lie or staggering ignorance from Boris muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #65
I don't think there's any "If" about it! Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #66
By going after immigrants? This is a Trump dream come true. pampango Jun 2016 #47
We need national & global labor unions & they need to include the professional class. CrispyQ Jun 2016 #48
Oy. greatauntoftriplets Jun 2016 #49
elections? Trump as POTUS ? Yeah we'll see, okay, but does this heaven05 Jun 2016 #53
A vote for Brexit was the poor voting against their own interests mainer Jun 2016 #58
No no no...this is about only ONE thing! ONE thing I tell ya! Rex Jun 2016 #59
If the "revolution" is racist and xenophobic, it can fuck right off. NT Adrahil Jun 2016 #60
By leaving an association of countries with the best income equality in the world and the highest pampango Jun 2016 #74
Britain and the US are competing for dumbest nation liberal N proud Jun 2016 #76
Not Britain! England and Wales! AllTooEasy Jun 2016 #81
Revolution? TubbersUK Jun 2016 #79
Revolution/Change isn't always a good turn of events. AllTooEasy Jun 2016 #80

Response to kentuck (Original post)

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
24. Don't you understand? Economics doesn't matter. The stock market doesn't matter.
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 09:01 AM
Jun 2016

People will pull themselves up by their bootstraps the way God intended!

Response to randome (Reply #24)

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
4. The UK is going to be forced to renegotiate the trade agreements with a gun to their head.
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 08:27 AM
Jun 2016

They have no leg to stand on. They will almost certainly get a far worse deal with the EU trade wise than they had before. In fact, that is absolutely certain, since they had all of those exceptions with the EU before (like being able to stay on the Pound).

PaulaFarrell

(1,236 posts)
10. sorry but if mentioned TTIP to 100 people here
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 08:42 AM
Jun 2016

You would get 99 blank stares. This vote was not about trade. It was about immigration and nationalism. Its not revolution, its devolution.

kentuck

(111,094 posts)
13. On the surface, it is about immigration and nationalism...
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 08:46 AM
Jun 2016

Deeper, it is about trade and cheap labor and international agreements and a race to the bottom.

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
17. The third world isn't seeing trade as a "race to the bottom"
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 08:52 AM
Jun 2016

in fact,there's a rapidly growing middle class in the 3rd world.

kentuck

(111,094 posts)
18. Exactly!
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 08:55 AM
Jun 2016

The multi-nationals and the corporations are becoming very wealthy as the expense of the middle classes in developed countries, in order to increase the standard of living in third world countries. That is the nature of the new capitalism.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
34. I never stopped saying it.
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 09:24 AM
Jun 2016

I'm in favor of protectionism, national economic self-interest is a legitimate interest; the entire "free-trade" movement needs to be disemboweled. Anyways, we can do as much for the "third world" without self-mutilation with the adoption of "fair trade" polices that would be better for everybody except the oligarch capitalists on Wall St.

I have no apologies for thinking that way.

kentuck

(111,094 posts)
72. I don't think Americans or Brits or anyone else should lose their place on the "food chain" ...
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 01:59 PM
Jun 2016

to benefit third-world workers, or mainly to benefit the corporations that move their jobs mostly for the cheap labor and the increase in their bottom lines. This is a primary reason for the continuing income inequality in the world. You can trace it back to the trade agreements, which primarily benefit the big corporations.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
78. EXACTLY ...
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 06:52 PM
Jun 2016

But it would seem that many here (and elsewhere) are fighting the last trade war ... The best strategy for retaining "American" jobs and "American" wages is for the American worker to advocate for higher "3rd world" wages!

kentuck

(111,094 posts)
71. That is not equality...
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 01:55 PM
Jun 2016

when you pay the Vietnamese people 65 cents an hour, that may get them into their middle class but the jobs they do take a lot of Americans out of the middle class. That is not equality. That benefits no one except the corporations and businesses that improve their bottom lines. The Chinese that build Apple computers cannot afford to buy them.

PaulaFarrell

(1,236 posts)
31. no sadly its not
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 09:23 AM
Jun 2016

Much ad many people on this board wish it were otherwise. Sometimes people are just pricks and this is one of those.

Response to PaulaFarrell (Reply #10)

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
12. How else do they buy and sell stuff without trade agreements?
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 08:45 AM
Jun 2016

All those British cars? Who did they sell the most to? Europe. 57.5% of their cars, to EU. Gun to their head is an underestimate of epic proportions.

kentuck

(111,094 posts)
15. People will still buy the BMWs or Aston Martins if they want them...
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 08:49 AM
Jun 2016

Last edited Mon Jun 27, 2016, 02:02 PM - Edit history (1)

I doubt it will make much difference, in that respect. The people will soon find out the truth.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
19. The UK gets pushed into the DCFTA zone.
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 08:56 AM
Jun 2016

One where the EU gets to make the all the demands in the world and the UK, since it just shot itself in the gut, has no choice but to agree to them.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
29. They lost tens of billions in the market! Pension funds took yet another hit! Inflation is coming!
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 09:19 AM
Jun 2016

I think that's why there is a petition for a re-vote: they have already found out the truth, and it isn't pretty.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
43. If the Parliament does not stop this madness....
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 09:52 AM
Jun 2016

Britain is going to suffer a nasty recession and it's gonna hurt more than Britain.

This was the equivalent of cutting off your foot because there is a splinter in your toe.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
44. I can see a way out.
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 09:56 AM
Jun 2016

Labor makes a major push to prevent Article 50 from being enacted. Presses for EU reforms (whatever BS they can muster, making it more democratic, whatever). Stand tall in the Oct elections and see if they don't get kicked out. If they stay in, then the British people will have effectively reversed the will of the Brexit voters.

But it's a damn long shot from hell and I doubt Labor has the courage to attempt it. This is not illegal and it's not subverting democracy because it's well within the rules (the vote was non-binding), but it is political suicide.

If they do that, though, and succeed, they will go down in history as the greatest political maneuver in British history.

 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
54. Two problems with that:
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 12:13 PM
Jun 2016

1. The Labour Party is not in government;
2. There will be no October elections, unless the House of Commons passes a "No Confidence" motion; there will be a change of leadership of the Conservative & Unionist (Tory) Party (and perhaps of the Labour Party) by then.

Denzil_DC

(7,241 posts)
6. If it's a revolution, it's not going to lead anywhere you're (we're) likely to want to end up.
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 08:36 AM
Jun 2016

It doesn't address the underlying causes of disaffection.

The UK (if it still exists as that entity), as it struggles to cope with the economic fallout, is going to become even more wedded to austerity, with added "justification."

And the future UK (or whatever it is), when all's done and dusted, is far more likely to resemble a free marketeer's dream of a tinpot offshore tax haven than a post-revolutionary workers' paradise.

kentuck

(111,094 posts)
11. Turkeys also voted for NAFTA...
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 08:43 AM
Jun 2016

...and are ready to vote for the TPP.

Do these agreements really help average working folks?

Do these agreements directly contribute to the continuing income inequality throughout the world?

Or are we to believe that, as we have been told a million times, the global economy is the new reality and there is nothing the people can do about it?

It appears the British people are getting ready to test that theory?

Denzil_DC

(7,241 posts)
14. My intuition is that if we end up with any sort of stable government in the UK
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 08:49 AM
Jun 2016

in the decade to come, it will have a relationship to the European bloc with opt-outs on various measures.

It will try to attract investors by undercutting the EU whenever possible, degrading regulations as far as it can, giving workers fewer rights etc. etc. That's what a lot of the griping from the upper echelons of the Leave camp was about (while it dogwhistled, sometimes foghorned, like crazy about immigration) - Europe ties our hands in these matters. It fits the pattern since the Thatcher years.

This vote has done nothing to rock that boat. If it's a revolution, it's a neoliberal coup in the making.

kentuck

(111,094 posts)
16. A lot of damage has been done to the lives of average Brits...
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 08:51 AM
Jun 2016

before this vote ever took place. Most will overlook that fact.

Denzil_DC

(7,241 posts)
23. Overlook it?
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 09:00 AM
Jun 2016

It gives the austerity-mongers the perfect excuse:

Tighten your belts another couple of notches! Us against the world! Dunkirk spirit! Times is hard, but that's the price of freedom! We have our country back! If you're still suffering, it's the fault of {Insert pointy finger at succession of convenient scapegoat groups here}!

TubbersUK

(1,439 posts)
28. The Conservative Party has a lot to answer for, if that's what you mean.
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 09:16 AM
Jun 2016

and now they've been gifted:

(1) A handy excuse for visiting more pain on those of us already hurting
(2) More scope do so, now that our employment and other rights are up for grabs







 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
45. The damage was mostly due to domestic politics, not the EU.
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 09:59 AM
Jun 2016

The Tories has been pressing Thatcherite austerity, iced with a little anti-immigrant fervor just to get the votes. Thatcherism didn't work in the 80's, and it isn't working now. Cameron hoped he could defuse the te anti-EU faction of his party with this referendum, and still maintain their votes for his Thatcherite policies. He played with fire and got burnt. He'll go down into British history as an ignoble figure.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
20. Indeed, labor got gutted.
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 08:57 AM
Jun 2016

And they will use the gutting of labor to reduce regulations and cause even more internal strife. And of course, the 10% immigrant population will be blamed for the continued degradation of the country. Until they really do start mass deportations.

Denzil_DC

(7,241 posts)
51. Thanks, you get it.
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 10:45 AM
Jun 2016

It's gotten exhausting having to keep pointing this out.

Visit the UK group if you like, as quite a few of us UK DUers are all but giving up on trying to discuss this on the rest of the board and going over the same old ground again and again (though we'll no doubt still keep popping up).

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
36. Never have helped the working class.
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 09:30 AM
Jun 2016

I don't think it's as much that we're ready to vote for TPP/TTIP...it's better known than the butchers want it to be and people are mostly opposed. I think the turkeys are about to be betrayed by politicians that lied and said they oppose TPP; they were believed and nobody laid attention to the knife behind their back.

No more FTAs! It's time the US used its bully-pulpit and walked away from the ones we're in. Not negotiated withdrawal...unilateral "Fuck you, we're not doing this anymore" and "Fuck you, we're not recognizing the legitimacy or authority of the entities of this agreement."

What are Canada and Mexico or South Korea going to do if we simply refuse to abide the authority of the star-chambers of these FTAs? Go to war against us?

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
37. Sadly...
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 09:32 AM
Jun 2016

this was a huge stick for the liberals in the UK to use to beat the Tories senseless at the polls...but the libs seem more interested in self-mutilation and trying to oust Corbyn because they don't want him in charge if they take back the government.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
75. Maybe.
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 06:41 PM
Jun 2016

I was reading an article in The Independent yesterday, I may have gotten information crossed but the gist was Corbyn's shadow cabinet and leadership team were resigning en-mass following what they were calling a "coup attempt" led by Hilary Benn to oust him as head of the party.

I can't find the article I was reading but this seems to be the followup:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-faces-worst-labour-crisis-since-1935-as-party-is-hit-by-mass-resignations-a7104951.html

TubbersUK

(1,439 posts)
77. Yes, the parliamentary Labour Party is in total disarray
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 06:45 PM
Jun 2016

the timing is very unfortunate given the possibility of a snap general election in the autumn

ETA: As you said, if they were in better shape they might have been able to make hay with some of the absurdities thrown up by Brexit

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
26. They want to "take their country back" like Trump supporters do
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 09:06 AM
Jun 2016

The Brexit vote was a xenophobic one. This romanticism about revolution is not realistic.

BeyondGeography

(39,374 posts)
27. It was an ill-advised referendum conceived by a gutless politician
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 09:09 AM
Jun 2016

trying to save his worthless ass.

It'll have ramifications all right, but they will be so sad as to discourage imitations. We don't have national referendums anyway, which is a damned good thing.

Igel

(35,309 posts)
32. I'd like a better job and improved neighborhood.
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 09:24 AM
Jun 2016

That's change. So I what I really want is just change.

However, I'm likely to see work conditions deteriorate, and my neighborhood's only likely to get worse.

That's change.

Gee, I'm getting what I want. I wanted change. I get change.

If you don't get past the superficial form of words and look at the word's referents; if you don't realize that some words don't so much have unique and clear referents but function as placeholders; if you don't realize that one very nice, very appealing, and very specious form of argumentation relies on shifting the meanings of words subtly so that people are led to want what they don't want; then discussion is difficult. Polemic is much easier, however.

Look at the polls. Brexit was split in its vote. You look at partial data, and it's the enlightened versus the troglodyte. But if you were liberal or Tory or UKIP, you gave pretty much the same answers for why you voted Remain. If you were liberal or Tory or UKIP, you gave the same answers for why you voted Leave.

Remain wanted primarily financial benefits, and the EU provided them. The Leavers wanted more say, they wanted to feel empowered. Both are needs: one is material, although accoutrements of wealth also go to psychological well being for many. The other is psychological. Call it "respect" and "dignity", to use politically popular words. Yeah, there's some racism thrown in there, just like more than a few of the Remain voters are greedy consumerists. (Diversity and nuance. Empathize with it.)

You see the same effect in the US. A lot of people want benefits, but they want more say. That can be retirees wanted reduced government but more benefits. It can be welfare recipients wanting more benefits and with fewer restrictions on how they can use them. It can be the sick wanting increased public health care but less preaching on lifestyle choices and their risks, or students wanting free education but no restrictions on what they can study (or "I want the prestige of English degree from this school, but you have to revise it to include just what I want&quot . We like the perquisites but not the requisites. For some, the perks are more important; for others, the desire to avoid what's requisite.

What's really hard is that often it contradicts our notions of class consciousness. (But that's okay, we have "false consciousness" to fall back on--we really know what's best for those poor benighted people, if only they'd trust us.)

Take, for example, the "red alert" post yesterday: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027959733

The concern is that all the EU regulations that Britain may not have wanted will fall by the wayside, and this is a horrible thing. Well, if we like democracy then if "Britain" doesn't want all the enviro-regs then they shouldn't be force-fed them. If Britain wants them, they'll reinstate them. However, the attitude is that British Leavers hate being told what to do with immigration and such, but luvs them some forced-feeding of environmental regulations. In other words, we see what *we* want to see, not what the voters say. Being force-fed regulations and having immigrants imposed on them is, as far as the polls go, the same thing: The average voter is being talked down to by technocrats and bureaucrats who make far more than he does and have cushier jobs. Call it "respect" if you want to. But ultimately, the technocrats win because if they don't get what they want the first time, it comes back over and over. Many of those saying the electorate voted and there must not be a re-do are the opposite when it comes to what they want--it just takes one vote, so hold the vote over and over until you get what you want.

Their voters were alienated. And they voted their alienation. But that alienation takes on a lot of forms and has a lot of causes. In a democracy, the government has to be concerned about satisfying those citizens, whether the rulers agree or not. Talking down to their lessers will not produce joy and gladness.

Ex Lurker

(3,813 posts)
68. The average voter is being talked down to by technocrats and bureaucrats
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 01:21 PM
Jun 2016

and DUers. Calling someone stupid and ignorant is a good way to insure that they never listen to your ideas. It happens a lot on DU. If you're not on one of the coasts or in a major urban area, you're an inbred hick to DU. And yet we wonder why vast areas of flyover country have written off the Democratic Party entirely.

Response to kentuck (Original post)

Response to Post removed (Reply #33)

BlueMTexpat

(15,369 posts)
38. If their Brexit vote is
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 09:34 AM
Jun 2016

"the revolution," then the UK have just screwed themselves royally ... right off a cliff and likely into their own break-up.

Please stop this iteration of RW (or RLW) TPs.




muriel_volestrangler

(101,316 posts)
42. Here's Boris Johnson, frontrunner for next PM, on his plans:
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 09:46 AM
Jun 2016
British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI – the BDI – has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market. Britain is and always will be a great European power, offering top-table opinions and giving leadership on everything from foreign policy to defence to counter-terrorism and intelligence-sharing – all the things we need to do together to make our world safer.

The only change – and it will not come in any great rush – is that the UK will extricate itself from the EU’s extraordinary and opaque system of legislation: the vast and growing corpus of law enacted by a European Court of Justice from which there can be no appeal. This will bring not threats, but golden opportunities for this country – to pass laws and set taxes according to the needs of the UK.

Yes, the Government will be able to take back democratic control of immigration policy, with a balanced and humane points-based system to suit the needs of business and industry. Yes, there will be a substantial sum of money which we will no longer send to Brussels, but which could be used on priorities such as the NHS. Yes, we will be able to do free trade deals with the growth economies of the world in a way that is currently forbidden.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/i-cannot-stress-too-much-that-britain-is-part-of-europe--and-alw/

He's not going to look to fix inequality; he wants less employment regulation, or environmental regulation. He's all for free trade, and a race to the bottom for employment conditions.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,316 posts)
65. It also contains either a lie or staggering ignorance from Boris
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 01:08 PM
Jun 2016

"The stock market is way above its level of last autumn; the pound remains higher than it was in 2013 and 2014. "

Pound-dollar rate 2013-14: low $1.48; high $1.72. Now: $1.32 (31 year low)

http://www.indexmundi.com/xrates/graph.aspx?c1=USD&c2=GBP&days=1825

The stock market was, last autumn, between 5900 and 6400; it's now dropped to the low end of that, rather than being "way above".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business/market_data/stockmarket/3/twelve_month.stm

If Johnson's idea of 'calming the markets' is to ignore the figures and make his own up, we're extremely fucked.

Denzil_DC

(7,241 posts)
66. I don't think there's any "If" about it!
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 01:14 PM
Jun 2016

If you didn't see it, I posted this Nick Cohen Guardian article in Good Reads:

There are liars and then there’s Boris Johnson and Michael Gove
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016161801

I usually don't have much time for Cohen on foreign policy, but on the domestic front he's OK, and it's a ripping read.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
47. By going after immigrants? This is a Trump dream come true.
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 10:20 AM
Jun 2016

If they are going after "income inequality and global economics" by voting out labor and environmental protections and voting in Boris Johnson's "hyper-capitalist island freed from EU regulation", a "neoliberal fantasy island", they did not really think this through.

Unfortunately I am not confident that American voters will think things through any better than British voters did. If right wing populists like Johnson and Nigel Farage can win in the UK, their American equivalent - Trump - must be taken very seriously indeed.

CrispyQ

(36,464 posts)
48. We need national & global labor unions & they need to include the professional class.
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 10:20 AM
Jun 2016

I know lots of white collar workers who don't consider themselves labor, even though the greatest percentage of their income comes from their labor. Many of them were disdainful of unions. Now lots of those professionals, especially in IT, have seen their good paying jobs shipped overseas. In the USA, we specifically need to un-do the harm Reagan did to the image of unions. If you were born after 1980, all you've heard is that unions are bad.

I thought this was an interesting article, although it's 11 years old.


What’s the Future of Globally Organized Labor?
by James Heskett
03 OCT 2005

Summing Up

Globalization could spur organized labor to rethink its premises, objectives, and strategies. But the prospect for that is not clear, according to respondents to this month's column. As Arun Joshi put it, "Now that the world is becoming a global village, it falls to labor's competency and its ability to move up the value chain that will allow it to share the positive gains. If labor tries the old tactic of strikes, management will just outsource the staff from somewhere else ... "

~more at link: http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/whats-the-future-of-globally-organized-labor


On edit: I don't know how we do it. The multinationals have so much clout.
 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
53. elections? Trump as POTUS ? Yeah we'll see, okay, but does this
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 12:10 PM
Jun 2016

also have anything to do with the rise of China's renminbi to world currency status, rivaling, seriously, the dollar, pound and even the euro along with a host of others?

If not, okay....but the quiet machinations behind the current world financial drama playing out because of the China world currency bid which has been granted.....in conjuction with AIIB who touts a 40 nation signatory list....Britain, Germany and Australia on that list in favor of the conversion of the yuan, leads me to see it this way.

mainer

(12,022 posts)
58. A vote for Brexit was the poor voting against their own interests
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 12:28 PM
Jun 2016

Economically deprived areas of England received generous subsidies from the EU that they never got from their own government. Now they're losing those subsidies. A vote for Brexit was actually a vote to hand MORE power to the rich.

https://twitter.com/FT/status/746681886131486720

pampango

(24,692 posts)
74. By leaving an association of countries with the best income equality in the world and the highest
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 02:06 PM
Jun 2016

labor and environmental standards of any trade association? Let's get rid of labor and environmental standards and turn things over to conservative politicians. That should work.

That's one hell of a way to lead a 'revolution' against global economic and income inequality.

liberal N proud

(60,334 posts)
76. Britain and the US are competing for dumbest nation
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 06:43 PM
Jun 2016

Britain is in the lead but the US is holding the Trump card.

AllTooEasy

(1,260 posts)
81. Not Britain! England and Wales!
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 07:52 PM
Jun 2016

N. Ireland, Scotland, and Gibraltar voted to Remain. Please don't generalize.

TubbersUK

(1,439 posts)
79. Revolution?
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 07:13 PM
Jun 2016

Handing the whole show over to the Conservative Party, the oldest and probably the most dominant party political elite the world has ever seen, one of the brightest stars in the neo-liberal firmament?

Some revolution I must say.



AllTooEasy

(1,260 posts)
80. Revolution/Change isn't always a good turn of events.
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 07:50 PM
Jun 2016

South America and Africa have had lots of them. How did those turn out?

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