how I know that Obama is doing well

[scheming daemons]

When left-leaning folks feel secure in the notion that Obama will win re-election, we see more posts on DU and other Democratic sites criticizing the administration.

When Obama's numbers go down, these "criticisms from the left" tend to disappear and a circle-the-wagons kind of phenomenon takes over.


So as long as the malcontents are bashing... er criticizing... Obama frequently here, we know that they are confident Obama will win.

When the bashing of Obama stops here, it will indicate that the Obama bashers had their "holy shit! Romney might win!" moment and came around.

But by then, they will have ironically diminished the enthusiasm for Obama to a degree that he might not recover.

They will be the proverbial dog that caught the car. They will have succeeded in turning off enough Democrats to cost us the election..... then they'll say, "but wait! We didn't actually want him to lose!"

The Van Joneses, Glen Greenwalds, and countless others (you know who you are) voicing disappointment in Obama just 5 months before the election are making things easier for the GOP.

We need to unite behind the candidate that is 100 times better than the other candidate and quit aiming our arrows inward.

There are REAL barbarians at the gate. Cut this shit out before you help them overrun the castle.

Unity is required right now... because the enemy, the REAL enemy, is unified.

[patrice]

1. The attacks aren't always directly on Obama. Some of it is shit-stirring and

confusionist action on the issues themselves, especially the hot-button stuff, like racism.

[Enrique]

2. you forgot Cenk

thank God for the Greenwalds and the Uygurs, it would be so depressing if everyone turned into Jay Carney.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101732986

&feature=player_embedded

[scheming daemons]

7. Thank God for those that make a Romney win more likely?

Odd sentiment for a so-called progressive.

[Enrique]

11. is Obama that bad?

that honest discussion of him will lead to his doom?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

13. x2

[ConservativeDemocrat]

21. No.

People are just that racist.

At least where I'm from.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[cwydro]

26. I was a supporter of Obama, and I voted for him.

I don't think I can do that again in good conscience....does that make me a racist?

[JDPriestly]

30. Seems to me that those who believe that anyone who disagrees with Obama is a racist

don't know what racism is.

In fact, my criticism of Obama is that he has not stood strongly enough for human rights. His drone strikes and electronic surveillance and signature on the NDAA are just one step toward a return to a society in which the strong intimidate the weak and racism can return, Jim Crow in hand.

When a nation disregards human rights, racism is a natural consequence.

[TheWraith]

25. Honest discussion? Greenwald's Ron Paul love and Cenk's giving Republicans free rides?

You have an odd dictionary, to define propaganda as "honest discussion."

[SoutherDem]

3. I agree we need to unite.

I find it odd when Democrats would rather attack Obama than the Republicans and take offense if someone suggests burying the hatchet until after the election.

It reminds me of the saying "With friends like these, who needs enemies."

[Marr]

4. If it's true that people on the left are so powerful

that they can determine a national election simply by complaining to one another on the internet, then it's politically stupid to alienate them with policies they dislike.

If their criticism is meaningless, then it's disingenuous to blame a potential loss on the left.

Also, your solution (ie,that everyone you disagree with should shut-up), is just a little too self-serving to be taken seriously.

[scheming daemons]

5. If it costs us 1 or 2%, thats enough to lose the election

Criticism of Obama 5 months before the election does NOTHING positive for progressives. NOTHING.

It only helps the GOP.

[Marr]

20. I see-- so they're simultaneously indispensable and meaningless.

They're indispensable if we're talking about criticism of the President and voting, but they're an inconsequential minority if we're talking about actual governance.

That's a nice construct you've got there, and I don't doubt your sincerity at all-- but you might want to stop and consider whether you might be filtering the picture through your own predetermined position. And even if you honestly don't think you are doing so, stop and consider how realistic your position is. You're basically telling a group of people to ignore policy and support a party, or to give something in exchange for nothing.

[Doctor_J]

38. That's a cognitive dissonance that the New Dems are afflicted with

Depending on the day of the week, we're either a fringe group that doesn't need to be given any consideration by the "realists", or a huge bloc holding our collective breath in the corner until we all get ponies.

[scheming daemons]

6. ps. nobody said to shut up.

I said that the consequences are often not realized until it is too late.

Your bashing should ALL be directed at Romney at this point. And if not, you are helping him.

That's your right ... but understand the consequences.

[Marr]

22. The fact that you use the word "bashing" instead of "criticism" says a lot.

In fact, I think it says it all.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

27. Is Marr bashing anyone? Is he bashing Obama? When and where, exactly?

[pnwmom]

10. Since no group of people will agree on everything, especially progressives,

it isn't possible not to "alienate them with policies they dislike."

No matter what policy is picked, there are progressives who will object. But who will it serve at this point to voice those objections? Only the tea baggers who are pulling the strings on the other side.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

12. Well said. The best post that I've read in a while.

It is particularly politicially stupid to alienate those of the left when all they ask for is support for actions consistent with (1) the rule of law, (2) traditional Democratic values, and (3) the declared values and promises made to us by certain politicians when we elected them.

There are some who will disingenuously say that they have not told those on the left to STFU, apparently on the basis that they have not expressly said that while knowing that is the purpose of those who want to squelch them.

It is undemocratic to disregard actions that are taken inconsistent with our values and demand that others do so as well.

[JDPriestly]

31. Excellent post, Marr.

[JHB]

34. Thank you. I've had to make the same point on several occasions

[cbdo2007]

8. They'll always find something to complain about....

imagine if that was your job, that you had to say something all day everyday to entertain people....eventually you're gonna run out of rational stuff and just have to start coming up with your own storylines even if they don't exist.

I know President Obama is doing well because no one really has any true arguments or complaints about him. Even republican's I talk to in real life, they all have minor criticisms but nothing major that they can factually get behind. This is really going to be a BREEZE for President Obama, though I'm still going to fight hard for him.

[quinnox]

9. wtf, so Greenwald and those who aren't cheerleading

the Obama administration on drones and other things, should cease writing articles? Ever hear of the concept of free speech?

[deaniac21]

14. Yeah, it's like the way George Costanza got his job with the Yankees!

[Doctor_J]

15. This is the tried & true attitude of the "New Dems"

"We'll position ourselves just a hair to the left of the (now fascist) Repukes. Now we expect your full-throated support because it's either us or the fascists"

First of all, this isn't going to work forever. Second, having Obama in office has slowed, but not stopped, our march toward 3rd world status. If the right wing of our party wants our support, maybe they should start representing us.

[a2liberal]

17. +1 (n/t)

[RC]

23. I agree you whole heartedly on this post.

Just because a Democrat has a (D) by their name does not mean in any sense of the word, that they represent us.
There are real Democrats (DNC) and then there are DLC (Democrat Leadership Council) Democrats. The DLC Democrats bridge the gap between the normal run-of-the-mill (DNC) Democrats and the current crop of "Make Obama fail at any cost" Republicans. Do we really need this? I don't think so. The problem is that most people do not know or understand the difference between DLC and DNC (Democratic National Committee)

[Skittles]

39. CORRECT

[SidDithers]

16. Unfortunately, some of the malcontents doing the bashing...

have no interest in seeing Obama re-elected. There's a train of thought out there that says things have to get worse before they can get better. That maybe an Obama loss will show the country and world just how awful a Republican administration will be, and the glorious liberal utopia will rise from the ashes of the Republican scorched earth.

It's too bad the puritopians don't give a fuck about all the people who'd be harmed during the intervening years.

K&R.

Sid

[Stargazer09]

18. I thought we did that already

Having W as president sure made things pretty bad.

I'm still waiting for the "glorious liberal utopia" to arrive, but in the meantime, I'm supporting Obama.

[GarroHorus]

32. They want to do it again

They did not get somebody far enough to the left so they want to blow it all up again.

[turtlerescue1]

19. SOMETHING is up

Sununu back in headlines. Jeb B critical of "Today's GOP&quot NYT). When the old players start coming back in, the fecal matter is about to get even deeper.

Sure hope it DOES mean Obama is doing better than it looks. Something is grumbling under that GOP platform.

[stupidicus]

24. what balderdash

the unsupported nature of it notwithstanding, it's nothing more than a worthless criticism of the criticisms you obviously can't undermine in any meaningfull way, leaving them legitimate and intact. Speaking only for myself, I've thought since he was elected that his reelection was assured, unless the repubs nominated someone who could restore some sanity to the party. That however, has played no role in my criticisms of him, only the legitimacy of the criticisms and the principled stand they represent. You appear to be asking those with principles to abandon them, which is not just unreasonable and unrealistic,

It's also nothing more than an example perhaps, of why this rule, http://www.americablog.com/2011/09/why-is-it-that-so-many-critics-of-obama.html also applies to the lefty political warriors found on places like this.

And responsibility for the criticisms and their outcome is his

Obama supporters would answer that question by arguing that now is not the time to criticize the president because the alternative--electing a Republican--would be worse. Now is the time to mute criticism, because criticism can be embarrassing and dispiriting. Buck up, Dems, forget issues and actual performance, now is the time for cheerleaders, not critics. We can reconvene on the issues after Obama gets re-elected.

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/guy-saperstein-time-negotiate-obama-n

which is eactly what this kinda stuff is all about http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/06/08/liberals-threaten-not-to-vote-in-november-over-disappointment-with-obama/

http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/obamas-2008-donors-dont-give-in-2012 all of which is something he should be criticized for, including the result in the latter link, should it jeapordize his reelection chances.

and what's most insulting about it, is that should a loss occur and be reasonably attributable to a "lack of enthusiasm", that it will be predominantly because of those who noticed the "emperor had no clothes on", not the condition he's had a big hand in creating. Second to that, is the idea that one can't criticize BHO with the intent of continued support, like they are mutually exclusive concepts, because anyone that criticizes BHO over this and that haven't a big enough brain to hold both of those things in their undersized or deluded brain.

I've long thought and argued elsewhere since the stimulus, that while the lack of enthusiasm is real and justified over it, and compounded over this and that since -- which is revealed and justified by the way the criticisms survive scrutiny -- the fear of rightwingnutttery will more than compensate for it this Nov.

If some choose to not vote for BHO because of their disappointments, it's highly doubtful it will be because of the work of those criticizing him, but rather to be attributed to knowledge and opinions they've acquired on their own.

This kinda talk reminds me of the path Bushbots took, that indeed resulted in his reelection (the potential theft of it in Ohio notwithstanding) but left them collectively in the current shameless condition of dishonesty and denial they are currently in.

Of course we need to "unite", but that doesn't mean an end to the demands of a better second term and policies those criticisms represent. The idea that dems voters are just mindless and impressionable nincompoops who'll be unduly influenced by others rather than the incontrovertible facts they are fully aware of, is preposturous. I'd like to see BHO reelected too, but not at the price of condemning those who voted their conscience and because of the undeniable disappointments. This isn't a case of "perfection being the enemy of the good" but rather for many, between repub-lite, (the Greenwald/Jones/etc pov) and the real thing. That's why I say, most will go with the former, not the latter, and in part because many are awakening to the fact that that's what they've done before.

and it's his presidency that has raised that awareness, because of the diff between what many thought they were voting for, and what they got to this point.

and besides, as I recall, and will confirm if needed, that BHO himself has made it clear http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=obama%20said%20he%20%22welcomes%20criticism%22&source=web&cd=3&sqi=2&ved=0CFIQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2Fdiscuss%2Fduboard.php%3Faz%3Dshow_mesg%26forum%3D102%26topic_id%3D4946549%26mesg_id%3D4947268&ei=G1bWT62cFcTo6gGVrbyRAw&usg=AFQjCNG7EtbbGwRCgmzV57Y4UGlkpE2Ipg that your pov is all wet.

which is exactly what most of his critics of the non-rightwingnut kind are doing

As for his previous complaints about Obama, “It’s my job, whoever the president is, to hold his feet to the fire,” he said. “And I will continue to do that. There are lots of issues I have with the president—mostly on national security. I would rather he have Ron Paul’s foreign policy and brought troops home and cut the defense budget and all that stuff, but part of it is I do think he has gotten better… I really think he’s getting his mojo back.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/24/bill-maher-says-1-million-to-obama-super-pac-is-practical.html

just because we don't have the million clams doesn't change a damn thing, but by all means, send Bill a letter and tell him to shut up, no?

[Doctor_J]

37. Excellent post, stu

Esp this

the idea that one can't criticize BHO with the intent of continued support, like they are mutually exclusive concepts, because anyone that criticizes BHO over this and that haven't a big enough brain to hold both of those things in their undersized or deluded brain.

Of course I support him, and will continue to do so, because Rmoney IS that much worse. But the president could gain on all fronts - politically, morally, and presidentially - by fighting AGAINST the Repukes instead of moving 2 steps to the right after they move 4 steps.

And this daily scolding by the purists makes matters worse for them, not better.

[stupidicus]

40. indeed dude

I just addressed that issue here http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=799652

The "purists" are turning into their own worst enemy, as the intolerant almost always do.

[JDPriestly]

28. No candidate, no one human being, is more important than speaking out for human

rights and justice.

Fascist and communist states demand unity at all costs. The real enemies are those who would silence dissent.

On edit, I'm already volunteering even though I criticize Obama. How about you? What are you doing to get him re-elected? Beyond demanding Obama-worship on DU.

[KG]

29. truly lame shit.

[GarroHorus]

33. You've accomplished one thing

All of the Obama bashers took a break from bashing Obama enough to bash you instead.

[Tarheel_Dem]

35. +1

They can't really elect anyone, but they can sure as hell throw a wrench in the works for everybody else.

[JHB]

36. Oh, good. scolding. There's not nearly enough of that, despite it's clear effectiveness.

Is that out of your system now? Are you done venting? Because fuelling the very divisions you're complaining about seems like it'd be just as productive as it was the last time.