Angela Merkel warns UK it can't have access to single market without freedom of movement

[TomCADem]

Although Brexit had been protrayed as a pro-working class campaign against free trade, suddenly Brexit's most vocal supporters are now insisting that the only thing that would change is immigration. In other words, Brexit was all about keeping out the Brown people, and all that rhetoric about free trade hurting the UK's middle class was just a pretext for a campaign that at its heart was about racism.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/angela-merkel-warns-uk-it-cant-have-access-to-single-market-without-freedom-of-movement-a7107071.html

Britain cannot expect to “keep the privileges” of ties with the EU without any of the obligations, Angela Merkel has said, as the EU Commission President Jean Claude Juncker said he had imposed a ban on EU officials from holding secret Brexit talks with the UK.

In a clear rebuttal to Boris Johnson’s claim that the country could retain access to single market – seen as vital to the economy and jobs market – the German Chancellor told her parliament that free access to the single market was only for countries that accepted the free movement of people, capital and goods.

Meanwhile, in Brussels, Mr Juncker told MEPs that he had imposed a ban on EU commissioners holding informal or secret talks with the British about the country’s exit from the EU, until the UK government formally invokes Article 50 – the procedure for withdrawing from the bloc.

The stance is backed by other EU leaders and, with David Cameron also making it clear that Article 50 should not be invoked until a new prime minister is in place, two months of deadlock in the UK’s exit talks with the EU are now likely.

[MADem]

2. MORONS? The citation is from a UK publication.

You might want to read the rules, here--calling people MORONS for posting an article from a UK publication is rude and uncivil.

smDh!


On edit--Great job, MIRT!

[Wounded Bear]

3. In or out...

From the start, the UK has had one foot out the door anyway. Now they want be out, but keep the bennies of being in the club?

I don't blame the EU if they go hard line on this one.

[MADem]

4. It's not done until the MP's vote--it would be interesting if they didn't vote LEAVE, at the end of

the day:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-loophole-eu-referendum-mps-law-legal-legislation-constitution-a7105181.html

Parliament must still vote on a bill to allow the UK to leave the European Union, leading lawyers have said.

Geoffrey Robertson QC, who founded the Doughty Street Chambers, said the act which set up the referendum said "nothing" about its impact, meaning it was "purely advisory".


A new bill to repeal the 1972 European Communities Act that took Britain into the EU must now be passed by parliament, he said, adding that MPs might not be able to vote until November when the economic effects of Brexit will be clearer.

"Under our constitution, speaking as a constitutional lawyer, sovereignty rests in what we call the Queen in parliament," he told The Independent.

"It's the right of MPs alone to make or break laws, and the peers to block them. So there's no force whatsoever in the referendum result. It's entirely for MPs to decide.

[BlueStreak]

5. Right. This will bounce around a month or two

with everybody doing some chest pounding. In the end, there are two things the Londerners cannot abide:

1) the breakup of the United Kingdom, as most of them are still living in a dream world where the British Empire never ended. Having Scotland split would be too much to bear.

2) Having London play a much smaller role as a financial capital.

Of course, many of the Londoners were in favor of remaining. It was basically the Palin/Trump demographic of the UK that passed this. But even those people share this exaggerated self-importance. As that is threatened, the whole Brexit thing will disappear. They may try to negotiate some face-saving concessions, but I'd say the chances of a full exit are under 10%

[Wounded Bear]

6. It wouldn't surprise me if they stay...

and it might cost them the pound, too. The EU is kind of fed up with Britain's half hearted support for the Union.

We'll see.

[MADem]

7. Interesting thought, that! nt

[Wounded Bear]

8. Don't quote me on that, I'm no expert....

Unless I end up being right of course.

[MADem]

9. It certainly could happen--the eagerness to "over correct" when one makes a mistake....

It'll all depend on the mood of the public, which I'm in no position right now to really appreciate either.

Time will tell, I guess!

[modem77]

12. I doubt they will stay. Too much damage has been done by the Brexit vote.

I am sure the UK will work it out in the long term. Probably a new treaty between the EU and UK. It won't be the end of either one so all of the hand wringing will be for nothing.

[BlueStreak]

16. Remember the referendum is non-binding.

The exiters never expected to win. They didn't even want to win. They were just trying to score political points. Now that they won, they are doing their best to back-pedal and stall.

Every day, the exiters are discovering another really unpleasant consequence. Nobody wants to own this one.

It will get resolved by some negotiation that offers the UK some empty concession that the exiters can use to save face. But hte chest thumping will probably continue at least another month.

[BlueMTexpat]

10. One way or the other,

if Brexit does go through, the UK will be much worse off than when it had its "special relationship" with the EU, i.e., no Euro and no Schengen (freedom of movement). Even if by some miracle or legal procedure the vote outcome is disregarded, trust between EU nations and the UK has been very badly damaged, perhaps irreparably so. Politicians like Nigel Farage have not helped, but his tirade yesterday took place before the European Parliament, not the Council - which is the party with the real power.

Switzerland is also in a major dilemma. To have access to the EU common market (it is NOT an EU member), it agreed to Schengen. Yet a 2014 referendum here basically overturned Schengen's free mobility provisions and officials here have been turning themselves into pretzels trying to have things both ways since that result. Many preferences and participation in programs such as Erasmus (https://www.ethz.ch/en/studies/non-degree-courses/exchange-and-visiting-studies/programmes/exchange-programmes/swiss-european-mobility-programme.html) which are VERY positive have since been suspended pending the outcome of negotiations. Britain's vote last week made their task much more difficult, if not completely impossible.

This ...

Under Ms Merkel’s terms, this would mean losing some degree of control over immigration – a settlement that would anger many Brexit voters. Some countries in the European Economic Area, but outside of the EU, such as Norway and Iceland, have access to the single market, but they must accept freedom of movement.

Anyone who still believes that the Brexit outcome was good needs their head examined. That includes any candidates (current or not) for President who state/argue that this was a good outcome. Such statements show how little they understand foreign relations and how much they misunderstand what the EU actually is and does. They also demonstrate how deeply unfit they are to deal with a very complex 21st-century world - and it is indeed a very complex one.

[OnDoutside]

13. +599

[msongs]

11. so angela darling is going to stop slamming the door on free movement of syria refugees lolol nt

[bdwker]

14. Good job Angela

The Uk should taken in a million refuges like you did.

[FBaggins]

15. EU dictates to the UK are part of what got them Brexit in the first place

Pretending that the UK needs things from the EU and must pay to get them... but that the EU doesn't have things that it needs from the UK which will also require compromise... is not a great idea.

Unfortunately, the EU is in something of a bind. They can't appear too conciliatory for fear of additional exists becoming more appealing... but playing the hard line could hamstring them economically.

Well... at least it won't be boring.

[Exilednight]

17. They EU doesn't need England, especially when they can pick off GB countries one by one.

If Scotland separates from GB, along with Ireland, then England's left holding a bag of trash with no access to markets that others on their island hold.

[FBaggins]

18. They can't "pick off GB (sic) countries one by one"

Under current rules, the EU can only accept a new member if the vote is unanimous... and there's more than one EU country that doesn't want their own separatists to get any ideas.

If Scotland separates from GB, along with Ireland,

Presumably, you mean Northern Ireland - since Ireland it not part of the UK (and neither is part of GB).

then England's left holding a bag of trash

The UK minus Scotland and Northern Ireland is a "bag of trash"? That's an odd position.

with no access to markets

The rest of the EU exports far more to the UK than the UK exports to them... who needs access to markets more?

Also note that there are large markets (India and Australia) that the UK can't currently get trade agreements with because other parts of the EU won't agree. Once Italy doesn't have a say on UK trade with Australia (for example), that's a newly enlarged market.

[Exilednight]

19. The only reason England is a player in the world economy is

two fold. The first is financial which could dissipate over the time it takes to negotiate Brexit. The odds are very good that most financial institutions would migrate to other EU countries.

The second one is the Chunnel. Many EU good are transported to England to be loaded on cargo ships to be shipped to the west. France would gladly pick up that business.

I was using Ireland as shorthand. Most people on here can't draw the borders of the middle-east without getting it wrong. (Afghanistan, Pakistan and India are not middle-eastern countries)

Scotland and Ireland would be smart to leave before Brexit is finalized. Once it's finalized, both would have to reapply and start the whole process from scratch, which takes years. At this point, Great Britain would cease to exist.

[FBaggins]

22. Sorry... that's nonsense.

England is only a player in the world economy because of finance and what they get from the EU?



England is so powerful in finance because they're a player in the world economy... not the other way around. They're also the 4th/5th largest economy in the world - and not because of the Chunnel. You really think that a significant portion of their economy is acting as a freight hauler for other EU countries?


I was using Ireland as shorthand.

And your GB vs. UK confusion was "shorthand" too?

[pampango]

25. The UK does not 'need' the EU. Nor does France nor Germany. That is the far-right's point in each

country. The left's argument was that the continent is better off with more cooperation and less "Britain First", "France First" and "Germany First". And in many ways Europe is better off than it has ever been. But nothing lasts forever and the right never stops trying to divide us up in to US vs THEM.

France COULD get by on its own - just ask Marine Le Pen. Germany COULD get by on its own. Over the decades liberal Europe has chosen to cooperate more and promote nationalism less but that looks like it will be reversing now.

The history of Europe is not encouraging when it is a continent dominated by nationalism, but 'maybe it will be different this time'.

Scotland is certainly more liberal than England. It is instructive that the liberal region/country and liberal voters in general wants to stay in the EU and the conservative one and conservative voters in general wants out of the EU.

[sufrommich]

20. What does the EU need from the UK? nt

[obamanut2012]

21. That's what I was thinking

Scotland has the oil, and anyone who doesn't think Scotland won't vote for independence REALLY soon is crazy. The only reason most Scots voted to stay part of the UK was because of being in the EU.

[FBaggins]

24. Scotland has the oil? It's much more complex than that.

First of all... that's a small (and shrinking) portion of the UK economy. North Sea production (which is really mostly Norway's) has fallen for the UK from about 2.5 mbpd 15 years ago to a bout 1/5th that amount today.

Just as importantly, it isn't a sure thing that Scotland would own it in this imaginary new world. They aren't a sovereign nation at this point, so what they end up with would be part of the conversation on exiting the UK. It's also interesting to note that the chain of independence doesn't end with Scotland. Scotland herself has pieces (Shetland and Orkney primarily) that have previously discussed their own independence from Scotland if Scotland breaks from the UK... and they're the ones that would likely control most of the current UK share of North Sea production. They might want to remain in the UK, or (more likely) become self-governing. Even that smaller remaining oil production would make them comparatively wealthy on a per-capita basis.

[FBaggins]

23. That's an odd question.

What does either side "need" from the other?

We were discussing markets. IOW, not what each side needs to buy... but what they are able to sell. The rest of the EU sells quite a bit more to the UK than vice-versa. I'm sure that the workers in the EU that make those products care about those sales.

For first-world nations, it's much easier to find an alternative place to buy things than to find someone else willing to buy what you sell.

[LanternWaste]

26. Johnson sold his bill of goods to a lot of people.

Johnson sold his bill of goods to a lot of people. I hope the U.S. is learning a lesson about following carnival hucksters to a bitter ending of the Goblin and Grocer.

'I will divide myself between the two,' he said. 'I cannot quite give up the grocer, because of the jam!"

[Takket]

27. I agree with her

They wanted out, they are out.

[TubbersUK]

28. Here's Murdoch's Brexiteering Sun actually DEMANDING continued access to the EU single market

From yesterday:

Boris Johnson and Michael Gove WILL honour their promise to Sun readers

Tomorrow we will know the truth as the two leaders of this triumphant campaign spell out their programme for Britain outside Europe.

They will honour ALL their promises to millions of Sun readers and others.

Fourth, we will trade freely in Europe’s single market, with no tariffs or cash contributions to the EU budget.

And — most important of all — there will be NO second referendum.

“We will control immigration,” said one Brexiteer. “The British people will accept nothing less.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1359094/boris-johnson-and-michael-gove-will-honour-their-promise-to-sun-readers/