After 12 years and almost 20,000 posts it's time to move away.

[GliderGuider]

To paraphrase Heraclitus, "No man steps in the same DU twice. It's not the same DU, and he's not the same man."

This is not the DU I joined over a decade ago, and I'm not the same man.

I no longer believe that party politics (or politics of any sort for that matter) has anything to offer against the underlying existential threat of our time, the destruction of the global biosphere. After 10 years of research into the root causes of this catastrophe I have come to the realization that the best politics can do is amplify the global breakdown.

It's been a slice, folks.

[think]

1. Best wishes. /nt

[merrily]

2. Farewell, literally and figuratively. I recently concluded that issue by issue is a good approach.

[Xipe Totec]

3. To paraphrase LBJ

I rather be inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in.

[MADem]

23. +1,000! nt

[kpete]

25. i like that

me too
pissing inside the tent

peace,
kp

[PJMcK]

30. LBJ had such a way with words!

Here's a few good ones:

"I once told Nixon that the Presidency is like being a jackass caught in a hail storm. You've got to just stand there and take it."

"When the burdens of the presidency seem unusually heavy, I always remind myself it could be worse. I could be a mayor."

"If one morning I walked on top of the water across the Potomac River, the headline that afternoon would read: President Can't Swim."

And lastly, my favorite:

"Jerry Ford is so dumb he can't fart and chew gum at the same time."

[Hortensis]

39. Thanks for the reminders, guys. This is just part of

why Johnson is my "favorite" president. Anything from truly dreadful to truly wonderful, often at the same time, but never boring.

As GliderGuider undoubtedly knows, President Johnson formally informed Congress, and the nation, that it needed to start considering action to stop global warming in 1965, over 50 years ago now.

[TygrBright]

44. At the moment, the DU "tent" seems full of people inside the tent pissing inside the tent. n/t

[appalachiablue]

71. +1

[Scootaloo]

76. Isn't that the damn truth

[ReRe]

136. +2

I'm asthmatic, and the scent of this place almost toxic.

[Hissyspit]

161. Walked right into that one, didn't they?

[Eleanors38]

52. "Like making love to a skunk: I've enjoyed this about as much as I stand."

[GliderGuider]

65. The kind of pissing I'd like to do would get me kicked out of this tent anyway.

Might as well leave under my own power.

[99th_Monkey]

72. So you're not going out in a blaze of glory huh.

I can respect that.

I'm still plotting my escape. plans.

See yah around, maybe at JPR.

[Xipe Totec]

73. This reminds me of Benders Funeral

[FSogol]

94. LOL, surely there must be someone here...

[The Blue Flower]

106. Join the crowd GG

A whole bunch of us have found a better place. This is no longer a safe place for open discussion, and I was here since 2002.

[StrictlyRockers]

119. Hmm

no text

[scottie10]

130. Question

I've been thinking about another site. Can you give me directions to the better site?

[tallahasseedem]

103. +1!

[cloudbase]

4. Safe soaring to you.

I hope many 8 knot thermals find you.

[GliderGuider]

67. +1

[calikid]

96. 8 knot thermals! In my dreams.

A lovely sentiment, one I can relate to.

[cloudbase]

98. Well, just guessing from your user name

you're in California. You've got wave! And ridge! Pity those of us in East Texas.

[calikid]

99. Yep

I had a little of both a week ago Thursday.

Based at www.williamssoaring.com.

[GliderGuider]

114. I've seen consistent 8kt thermals only once

It was a completely magical day for Ottawa - lift all over the sky, bases at 8500 all afternoon. I did an impromptu undeclared 7-hour 350 km in my 1-34. Good times.

[calikid]

142. I'm thinking I'd have my hand on the spoilers most of that time with bases at that height

with 8kt thermals.
Last Thursday I had a declared 7.2 hour flight in a ASH-25, it was fun but scrappy, your day sounds much better

[Bok_Tukalo]

5. Good luck

Good life

[redstateblues]

6. Grim outlook. Man is a political animal.

[MH1]

7. Sorry to hear this, although I think I can relate.

I think you have a blog elsewhere? If you wouldn't mind please pm me with a link? I have always found your posts here informative and interesting. I hope you're not leaving due to the site changes. As far as the impotence of our politics to deal with climate change and other environmental destruction, I hear you. Every day I despair about what is happening to the world and only try to do my small parts and hope it will catch on. But I don't believe that it will, I believe we are in for a cataclysm that most people can't imagine.

[GliderGuider]

9. My web site (not a blog) is now moribund.

I ran out of things I needed to say there about 3 years ago.

I'm now only on Facebook, and anyone who wants to can connect with me there: search on "Bodhi Paul Chefurka".

Thanks for the good wishes.

[Duppers]

58. Thanks for the FB heads up.

Dangit, GG! You'll force me to go back to FB because I'll miss pestering you that much.

And although I still wish we could control the wind, I greatly admire your insightful ability in adjusting your sail.

Adieu for now.

[MH1]

125. Thanks GG.

I'll probably do that. In any case good luck to you.

[madokie]

8. Paul I hate to see you go

You are one of the reason I stay. I don't reply to your OP's very often but I seek them out to read. The thing is they're always so far over my head that I can't most times make an intelligent response so its better to keep my mouth shut than to show everyone what an idiot I am

Just take some time off and then reconsider.

At any rate
May the wind always be to your back
May Peace always be by your side
May Love always be in your heart.

Peace

[GliderGuider]

10. FB only for me from now on.

"Bodhi Paul Chefurka"

I've always enjoyed our interactions. Despite what you might feel, I always thought that you were one of the few here who got what I was trying to say.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

18. I am certainly also one of those who got what you were trying to say. Indeed, what you have...

...been saying actually has had a measurable effect on me and has done so for more than a decade.

[immoderate]

70. I too am a frequent follower. Sorry to see you go.

--imm

[ChisolmTrailDem]

17. I want to second your post, madokie, especially the first paragraph, lol. nt

[emmadoggy]

34. This is true for me, too.

I've learned a tremendous amount from GliderGuider and will miss his posts here very much.

[Hortensis]

45. Yes. Perhaps I should have responded more often.

GliderGuider, they'll be missed, even though it is this weird year's weird politics that have most of my attention. I accepted the threat of global warming over 40 years ago, and talking about all the tragic changes we're now witnessing right here on our 4 acres is just too unpleasant. I can still laugh at the tragedy of Trump.

[hunter]

11. Facebook is terrifying.

Nope.

[GliderGuider]

12. So is DU these days.

The "Block" feature keeps FB sane for me. But it's not for everyone. Nor is DU.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

13. If not "party politics", then what?

Good luck, it's a good cause.

[Indydem]

14. Bye.

Enjoy your efforts apart from party politics.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

15. Noooo! This sucks!

You probably don't know me, GliderGuider, but I have long been a fan of your participation on DU. I have always been keenly interested in what you've had to say, especially regarding the effects of human activity on the planet.

Please tell me you're going to post somewhere else on the web! I already know about your blog and know you as Paul eslewhere but will you be participating and providing your insight and thoughts daily on another forum somewhere? PM me if you don't want to respond publicly.

Man, I'm really going to miss seeing your voice here. SMH!

Damn DU, you suck more every day!

[closeupready]

16. Good luck, whatever happens. If you change your mind,

today, tomorrow, in another 10 years, I'll be welcoming you back with open arms. Farewell for now!

[Old Crow]

19. Ow. Losing any DU'er who is an environmentalist...

... and who can reference Heraclitus is a serious loss. Very sorry to see you go. There are about 20 DU'ers on here who have continued to make this site worthwhile, despite my recent misgivings about its direction and emphasis. You were one of them.

I'm not liking the trend. Scootaloo and Yui, if either of you bail out... ~looks around for parachute~

[JEB]

20. Will miss your voice and thoughtful posts.

[Silver_Witch]

29. Love this!!! Thank You for being brave enough to post it!

[lancer78]

90. It got removed

PM me what it was. I am interested if it is the same thing I posted on Cali's goodbye thread that got hidden.

[awoke_in_2003]

107. Cali's gone, too?

Damn.

[lancer78]

126. yup

He/she stated a concern about "walking on eggshells".

[ChisolmTrailDem]

131. Could you PM me also what got hidden? nt

[Iggo]

22. .

[dembotoz]

24. do wish you would reconsider and at least wait until and even 20000 posts

more seriously, i do like to be informed by folks brighter than i and find du to be useful for that.

perhaps you feel like a voice in the wilderness but folks do read and pay attention

[Silver_Witch]

26. Take care and travel safely!

Many are seeking new homes. Sadly there seems to be no place for those of us who want to see change especially about global issues which will affect us all.

[Old Crow]

28. +1. Well said. (N/T)

[NoMoreRepugs]

27. enjoyed your posts - peace GG

[Arazi]

31. I'm truly sorry @ this but you're right, our world is in deep trouble

By continuing to actively support the status quo we become complicit

I'll miss you. You're thoughtful perspective was a breath of fresh air here. Will look for you on FB

[NorthCarolina]

32. Allowing ones self to become "complicit" is a personal choice.

The kind of "choice" TPTB bank on every election cycle.

[jtuck004]

36. But for years the only choices we have are the ones they give us. The people

have ceded their future to bank$ters.

So you are right, they do count on that behavior continuing. If it stops, they lose their support. And without our willing support those in TPTB are nothing.

[tblue37]

33. Truly sorry to see you leave, but I will read you on Facebook. nt

[emmadoggy]

35. GliderGuider,

I doubt you know me either - I don't post a lot. But I frequent the E/E threads quite a lot and I have learned so much from you. I will deeply miss your knowledge and participation here. I hope someday you might reconsider and come back, but I understand the burnout.

Take care and best wishes.

[Shankapotomus]

37. Are you still here?

I thought you left years ago.

At least we can take comfort in that there is only two possible scenarios for our planet:

We will either destroy every living thing on it or we won't.

[edhopper]

38. Absolutely

because both parties are EXACTLY the same when it come to Global Climate Change.

[Fast Walker 52]

41. indeed!

[HuckleB]

48. Yup.

Apparently, or something.

[Fast Walker 52]

40. supporting Dems is an important step

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/6/28/as_extreme_weather_sweeps_across_us

Michael Mann says the Dems have a good platform on climate change.

[AwakeAtLast]

42. I will miss your posts

But I understand. My best to you!

[Adrahil]

43. Well...

Not sure what think CAN offer something, then.

Good luck.

[vkkv]

46. of course Glider is correct, but does one prefer to watch history unfold or look away in disgust?

It's a tough call...

Whatever makes us happy.

[edhopper]

49. don't want to pick a fight

with someone who has Close to the Edge as an Avatar.

[vkkv]

54. I didn't say that.. I agree that no one party is going to save the planet..

I thought that was obvious from my comment... trying to pick a fight I guess.. another reason why many leave DU.

Thanks for your..um, whatever it was..

[edhopper]

55. my mistake

I'll edit

[HuckleB]

47. "Research."

Last edited Wed Jun 29, 2016, 03:56 PM - Edit history (1)

That might be the real problem, not DU.

Going insular is the route too many take, as it is easy to do with the Internet today.

Of course, considering that you think positive technology is bad...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/06/29/more-than-100-nobel-laureates-take-on-greenpeace-over-gmo-stance/

[pampango]

50. I would disagree that Democrats and republicans are the same on environmental policy but

have a great 'retirement'.

[GliderGuider]

56. I never ever said they were the same.

I've always said that neither could solve the problem, or even go very far to ameliorating it, because ... jobs.

[FBaggins]

51. That's a shame. I've always found your participation entertaining.

Unfortunately, it has been clear for some time now that you were past your personal Peak Post point and that your post Peak Post post production was in terminal decline. I would try to change this sad fact, but we all know that once you're past your post peak, there's nothing that can be done.

I wish you well... and hope that you are as wrong as possible in your predictions - and come to appreciate it.

[GliderGuider]

57. Keep beating that drum, man.

Whatever it takes to bring you peace of mind and/or a sense of accomplishment, identity and some status in the monkey-house.

It's a big world, and a lot of unexpected things are about to happen in it. I hope I'm wrong too, but I haven't seen any evidence of that yet. Every significant piece of evidence so far points in the other direction.

Have a good one!

[Eleanors38]

53. Good luck. Things will change, I think for the better.

[Javaman]

59. cheers and good luck.

I may be following you soon.

DU has gotten very homogenized.

[HubertHeaver]

66. At the very least, churned.

[KPN]

60. Where will you go?

Good luck wherever that is! I think you are right by the way.

[GliderGuider]

63. FB

You can find my name in the posts above if you're ever moved to connect over there.

[MisterP]

61. but don't you see? the DNC's refusal to accept any goals or planks on AGW

just means that they want to tackle AGW *so badly* that they don't want to be limited by any 2016 platform!
remember, if a Dem lets you down, it's only because we didn't give them enough votes

[n2doc]

62. Well you aren't alone in your worries about lack of action

Nation's Top Science Groups Demand Bold Climate Action From Congress—Now!
'We owe it to our children and to our children's children to take bold action now'

by
Andrea Germanos, staff writer

The nation's top scientific organizations have an important reminder for members of Congress: human caused climate change is real, its impacts are already being felt in the U.S., and only a significant slashing of greenhouse gas emissions will stave off the worst risks.

The 31 groups including the American Meteorological Society, the American Society of Plant Biologists, and the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS)—organizations representing "millions of scientists," according to the Associated Press—issued their statement in a letter (pdf ) to the lawmakers dated Tuesday.

Impacts in the U.S. include "extreme weather events, sea level rise, and increased risk of regional water scarcity, heat waves, wildfires, and the disturbance of biological systems," the letter states. "The severity of climate change impacts is increasing and is expected to increase substantially in the coming decades," it states.

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/06/29/nations-top-science-groups-demand-bold-climate-action-congress-now

[TonyPDX]

64. Hat tip for line spoken by Amy Matigan's character in "Streets of Fire"

That film remains a guilty pleasure.

[Lyric]

68. Bye!!!

[MohRokTah]

69. .

[StevieM]

74. Will you at least stick around the Environment/Energy board? You contribute a lot there.

I would hate to lose your insight.

Besides, don't you want to hit 20K posts?

[Boomer]

75. A first for me

I'll miss your presence on DU, which is a first for me. For the most part, I've watched people come and go without much reaction, but you've had a tremendous influence on my perspective.

Thank you.

[joshcryer]

77. 2016 is a shit year.

[GliderGuider]

82. We had hope...

We just never had a chance.

Take care yourself!

[RobertEarl]

87. No chance?

Last edited Wed Jun 29, 2016, 05:22 PM - Edit history (1)

That could be true.

Given that way too much money is on the line by continuing to allow pollution of this little blue ball, the idea that we had a chance to elect a champion who promised to eliminate the money factor, may have been but a dream.

But..... I have been watching the forest in these parts recover nicely since a decade ago, when we'uns politicked and got passed, air pollution laws which eliminated much coal pollution.

It can be done, it was done, we just haven't done enough.

Bernie may not have been enough, but it sure would have helped.

[CRH]

79. Find some peace wherever you can.

Happy Trails.

[null_bock]

80. Buh-bye...

[GliderGuider]

81. I say gooodbye,

You say hello.
You say goodbye,
I say hello...

Hi, I hope you enjoy DU!

[Hekate]

83. Safe travels

[riderinthestorm]

84. I share your profound sadness about this election and climate change

It's tremendously discouraging. I take some comfort in knowing I did "shout" here at DUers, over and over, about climate change but obviously too many here do not give a shit about prioritizing the issue.

I will find you on Facebook. There's dark days coming very soon when politics will be rendered moot. Friends and allies who are/were prepared will be essential. I count you in that circle having come to "know" you here.

Peace

[HassleCat]

85. I think you're right.

After over 30 years of being spoon-fed the Third Way and its disastrous consequences, our party has almost no power to accomplish anything much. The other party actively opposes any useful accomplishments, and that's about it.

[Electric Monk]

86. You've been one of the good ones, imho. DU will be worse off without you.

I totally understand the sentiment, though, and I might not be far behind.

[liberalla]

88. I've appreciated a lot of your posts and input. You'll be missed by many here and

I wish you well on your journey.

[Hiraeth]

89. See you on Fb.

[Shebear]

91. But please stay engaged and help shove the Dem Party leftward...

... I know it can be discouraging, but we have to work with what we have. Bernie Sanders still persists in trying to change our politics from the inside, despite the Dem party leadership united against him and his followers... and he is having an effect. It is never easy going against power and money, but we can't give up!

[malaise]

92. It's too sad watching great DUers depart

This place has really changed

[Spitfire of ATJ]

93. Too many in politics are focused on commerce.

[greyl]

95. Take care of your goodness,

and keep sharing it.

[villager]

101. Yes!

Your posts will be missed, but I feel ya; As I've said with increasing frequency here, this is becoming "Titanic Underground" with increasingly beside-the-point personality clashes, the elevation of grade school snark over serious discussions, etc..

All while the biosphere unravels...

[calikid]

97. Good Luck GG

[rug]

100. To everything there is a season.

Wait . . .what?

Scientists just discovered that climate-change is wiping out the concept of seasons.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027967714

[Donkees]

102. "Flowers in the Sky"

[font color="blue" size="3"]"Vast emptiness, nothing holy."
Flowers in the sky.



Leaping from the Ledge of Infinite Regress,
The Unmoved Mover fell into Formlessness:
Pure silence echoed between the galaxies,
Eons of eons vanished in a second,
Withered trees bloomed in fires,
Polar mountains melted, rivers went dry,
Thusness scattered in sixty directions,
Space became Time, time became things,
Black Holes filled with Nirvana,
A billion samadhi mirrors shattered,
Galaxies snuggled within a single skull,
Many became One, One only, only One.
Then, the Divine Illuminatrix in All Beings
Opened Her clouded Eye, to see:
Flowers in the Sky.

[/font]


http://www.gardendigest.com/zen/dogen1.htm

[StoneCarver]

104. Damn it.

Gliderguider, you are a rare individual, whom I will miss sorely. That is an understatement!
You have the unique ability to see the future, by clearly looking at evidence. I wish more on DU did.
Thank you for saving me hundreds of thousands of dollars before the 08 crash. I can't thank you enough.
I've read you on the env forum and enjoyed every post. Please don't go dark, find a way to continue to share your insight. We ,the world, maybe even DU needs it.
I've grown increasingly tired of DU too. I read it a couple of times a day, but it seems to be inundated by idiots! Maybe it's time for me to leave too? I miss you, warpy, dixiegirl, etc.
God I'll miss you! Thank you for your insight and all the best to you and your family!
Stonecarver

[lapucelle]

105. Ten years and 20,000 posts is a great run and a demonstration of true committment

I've only been here a little while, so on behalf of newbies like me

Thank you for your service.

[Binkie The Clown]

108. Once a week or so I wonder why I hang around here myself.

If the human race itself is not doomed (I give it a 20% chance of surviving) then industrial civilization is certainly doomed. I've given up false hope that things will get any better. So instead, I've picked up a new musical instrument and I'm learning how to play it for my own pleasure. It's about the only thing left that has any meaning, and I'm enjoying the hell out what meaning I can eke out of it. It's "the best strawberry I ever tasted."

Go in peace. I'll miss your posts if I stick around here.

[A Little Weird]

109. Be well

I will also miss your posts. I'm also astounded that the people in power continue to ignore climate change. I hope they surprise us both by taking meaningful steps to deal with the problem but it's not looking likely.

[louis c]

110. If you don't understand that we are fighting Hitler

I guess this ain't the place for you.

Hillary is just an average politician. Donald Trump is Adolf Hitler. That's the only choice.

Many people felt the same way you did about Ralph Nader in 2000. That principled position got us two wars and a depression.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

[GliderGuider]

111. And biosphere collapse is the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs.

Your move.

[Alex4Martinez]

112. It's not about Hillary, and it's not about Trump...

It's about a culture without courage, without conviction, evidenced by two parties with too few ideas to address the problems that will, in the end, take us out.

Trump/Hillary? In the details one is clearly less frightening.

But in the big picture, it's a bit like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic post-strike.

If you have been following the science and the OP's considerable contributions to this site related to global climate change, overpopulation, and scarcity of resources, you'll know what I mean.

[CRH]

118. louis c, you should wake up and smell respect, ...

GG has weathered the dark nights of despair, that too much knowledge bestows upon the few. A knowledge that searches for answers, then the possibilities for answers, and then finally; how best to acclimate to failing politics, social activities and possible redress, and finally, unobtainable solutions to the physics behind the second law of thermo dynamics.

Believe me, this all transcends your political concerns listed above.

Glider is a benevolent teacher, who has never beaten knowledge through debate into another person. He has planted seeds, seeds that sometimes immediately sprouted into ah hah!!! moments; other times, they layed in the conscience, until they festered, and demanded either acceptance, or a better understanding, of why not!

I hope this clarifies the respect, that so many others intuitively surrender, to Glider Guider.

Have a good evening.

[louis c]

163. I've been here since 2004

I'm here because it's called DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND.

Not Socialist Underground, or Independent Underground. it's not a blog to vent our frustrations that hurt our chances in November.

If Bernie had won the primary, I would be singing his praises, just as I did for Barak in 2008 when my chosen candidate lost out.

I respect the Democratic party and I know that elections have consequences. You see, I've been politically active since 1968, when I knocked on doors in Hew Hampshire for Minnesota Senator Eugene McCarthy at 16 years old.

Don't give me that respect garbage. This is as close to a non-shooting war as we're going to get.

I remember 2000 when naïve people voted for Nader with the same crap slogan "they're all the same". They aren't all the same. Nixon was worse than Humphrey, Reagan was worse than Carter, Bush was worse than Clinton and you get my point.

There has never, ever, ever, in my lifetime (63 years old), ever been a more frightening, dangerous candidate to get this close to the Presidency than Donald Trump.

Any Democrat who doesn't do everything they can to defeat this man will regret the day they sat on their hands.

All it takes for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing.

[slipslidingaway]

129. Trump changes his stripes, he was more left leaning years ago, but bottom line he has a Congress

to deal with and cannot declare laws passed with a wave of his wand.

Unless the Dems surrender, as they did with the invasion of Iraq, then we Might be OK, but the Dems need to show some spine!

Invading Iraq was a colossal failure and we are currently feeling the effects of this horrific move.

Do you remember seeing the destruction of Iraq and the decimation of millions of people, wonder what happened to the survivors and how they now feel.

Should we ever look back and see the destruction in our wake?

And now we have Hitler, a perfect enemy.

[awoke_in_2003]

113. Will miss you...

take care of yourself.

[freedom fighter jh]

115. I'll miss you

You probably don't know me because I don't post much. But I do know you; when I saw a post in your name I knew it would be a good one.

And yeah, I agree that the underlying existential threat of our time is the destruction of the global biosphere. I was hoping Bernie would knock some sanity into our nation's leadership and start getting that fixed.

[bigwillq]

116. Bye, Felicia

[YOHABLO]

117. The two party system has to go. They represent nothing but the same ole same ole.

We have issues that are in need of such urgent action and nothing ever gets done. It's mind boggling. People have become so indoctrinated by the establishment of ''want'' that we are indeed on a perilous spiral into global disaster. I use to have hope, but no longer.

[mahina]

120. Wow. Ouch.

See you out there brother.

Just read and am still absorbing your post about the Gulf Stream breakdown today.

You've been a great DUer. I guess today's the day for big trees to fall. I'm grateful to know you.

Aloha no.

[GliderGuider]

121. Mahalo! nt

[NNadir]

122. Bye. It's sometimes been a pleasure to chat, even if I really don't buy into to that "nothing...

...can or should be done" rhetoric you've so often applied.

Have a nice life.

[ozone_man]

123. Sorry to see you go.

You're one of the most thought inspiring posters, a true environmentalist. Brutally honest in the present situation of the planet, and we need to be.

On the other hand, what value is really left in this place that has drifted so far right.

Fare thee well.

[scarletwoman]

124. Dear GliderGuider, you are one of the true treasures of DU.

Thank you for the time you've spent here, and all the thoughts you've shared.

I am sorry to see you go, and I understand. Wishing you all the best always.

It's not the same DU I joined 15 years ago, either.

Peace,
sw

[Tal Vez]

127. If there's an apolitical way to solve that problem,

its worth your time. Good luck.

[slipslidingaway]

128. Party politics ultimately keeps people 'in line' with their own wishes, it is done by both main

parties and sadly to the detriment of the majority of people.

The sooner people realize that the better we will all be, otherwise we are just pawns in their game.

[Martin Eden]

132. GG, that all depends how you define "politics"

The only way to stop destruction of the biosphere is through collective action to implement change.

Success will most likely require working outside the box of our current political system, but however you care to define this action it is at its core politics.

DU may very well be a waste of your time, but politics cannot be ignored if you are interested in saving this planet.

[GliderGuider]

134. IMO

There is no way to stop the destruction of the biosphere. It is already too far gone.

When I realized that the biosphere could not be salvaged due to the way human beings are wired to behave in groups, I lost all interest in trying to save the planet.

My interest now is in living as deeply and honestly as my remaining time and energy will permit, on as many of my own terms as I can manage.

[Martin Eden]

135. Thanks for the explanation

You have my sincere best wishes, along with an expression of sorrow. The efforts of informed people who care are the only chance for my grandchildren.

[slipslidingaway]

140. Behaving in groups is our downfall, we should not be programmed to back candidates that ...

erode our planet for the sake of power and money.

You reminded me of a time 40 years ago on a camping trip to Cape Cod, there was the entire beach and four of us has put out our towels down and then another group decided to set up their spot 20 feet from us. The beach was totally empty for a mile. A person in our group stated it was because of the 'herding instinct.'

We should never feel obliged to go along with others for the sake of feeling comfortable.

[arikara]

145. LOL we had that happen in a campsite as well

We had a nice little tent and campfire going, only us in the whole entire campsite. A motor home rolled in complete with 3 screaming kids, a barking dog and an loudly arguing couple and parked right next to us. They had their pick of 20 other spots in the site. I've also noticed that if the car in front starts driving a particular trajectory, either closer to the center line or the shoulder, all the drivers behind start following the same path.

[slipslidingaway]

146. Not opposed to people and making new friends :) but no reason to crowd our site ...

anyway think the same things happens in politics, people want to belong to a group, they are a little shy to stand on their own or go against the tide.

We've all gone along for decades, but what has that yielded, many people are sinking further economically and now we have become a player in some religious war that most people do not want to be a part of ... and my team is raising their flag and I am saying is this really helpful?

Sometimes you have to speak out against the madness

[GliderGuider]

149. You got it.

As social animals, status and approval by the group matter so much that most of us will do whatever is required not to lose them. Belonging and respect are the carrots, shame and the fear of ostracism are the sticks. That social programming lets anyone who can manipulate approval and status within a group to herd its members. It works works at every level from families and peer groups to workplaces, political parties, and governments. The only real antidote is waking up to the operation of the effect and consciously deciding not to be herded. Being successful at that can cost you group membership, though - it's one of the risks of waking up.

[slipslidingaway]

153. Peer pressure in grade school that escalates into adulthood ...

we all want to belong!

In grammar school and HS when I did not always conform, guess on some level I am still rebelling

Meeting my best friend from HS next week, she is from Caracas and have not seen her since 1994, when I befriended her the Nun's at my Catholic boarding school called my parents in to 'discuss the matter' as I was hanging out with the South/Central America students, but we were listening in the hallway. My Mom, who departed this world way too early exclaimed, "Is there something wrong with them" and listening secretly I said YES!

We can become prejudiced at an early age or we cannot, our experiences easily shape our lives, the more we are exposed to other people and cultures the better off we all will be.

We are in this world together, another instance, we had a Muslim, a Jewish person and a Christian whom met at the American Cancer's Society Hope Lodge in NYC after a receiving bone marrow/stem cell transplant. Religion did not play a central role, survival did, we shared meds just as we did during my husband's first transplant (this is his second transplant) when the insurance companies were total assholes. We persevered in order to survive.

I cannot be easily herded, watched that movie many times before, not a team player, especially when I am told to fend for myself and suddenly I am expected to be a team player?

[UTUSN]

137. It's been a *long* time (years) coming for a GBCW forum/group.

Plus one for "DU was better back when/whenever."

[slipslidingaway]

139. For us older folks and we are still waiting for the dawn ...

[ReRe]

138. Adios, mi amigo.

We'll probably meet again on another site, as it's almost untenable for me to stick around much longer as well. I admire you an others for your announcements of departure. I'm afraid I can't do the same. I've decided to just fade away.

Politics is fine if you can find a party to fit into. Two parties in one party is a tad dysfunctional, IMHO.

Till we meet again.

[frankieallen]

141. Your leaving DU because of destruction of the global biosphere?

grandstand much?

[GliderGuider]

143. That's more like it!

Can we get a rousing chorus of "Don't let the door hit you on the ass..." in four-part harmony?

There are traditions that must be upheld in these matters. Thanks for the reminder!

[Jim Lane]

144. Tradition, schmadition.

I'm among those sorry to see you go. Someone else will have to provide the rousing chorus.

Best to you in the future!

[SoLeftIAmRight]

147. Climate change and the sixth global mass-extinction event is happening now

and some here are very happy

be well

[Rhiannon12866]

148. We need those like you here to keep us informed

And that's an important mission. Hope to see you again...

[BainsBane]

150. The party is clearly more liberal than it was a decade ago

As is clear by the issues the nominee and her challengers raised during the primary as well as the platform currently being created.
We just had Democratic representatives stage a sit in in the House, which followed a filibuster in the Senate, challenging one of the most powerful corporate lobbies in the nation--the gun lobby. In terms of global climate change, our nominee's plan is far more extensive that most, with a series of policies designed to wean America off fossil fuels, which is why she has been endorsed by most of the nation's environmental groups. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/climate/
The GOP doesn't even recognize the existence of global climate change. The contrast between the two parties couldn't be more stark. Throwing up your hands is a good way to ensure nothing is done to address the environment. It's hard for me to believe that can possibly be a reason to move away from the Democratic Party. It simply doesn't make sense in terms of policy positions advanced by the party and its candidates.

DU terms of service has always required support for Democratic candidates, but when Democrats didn't hold power I suppose it was easier to feign that. Now that the Democratic Party is engaged in building coalitions necessary to enact actual policies, it requires more than just knee-jerk opposition.

The rest of my comments are not directed at you but rather general observations about some of the disenchantment with the Democratic Party.

I've seen on another site where people claim themselves too progressive to support the Democratic nominee that they plan on voting for Trump. Those same people argue that Democrats and DU complain too much about racism, and that the "real racism" is the "political correctness" directed against white people and white men in particular. They also speak about our nominee with a plethora of misogynistic slurs that I wouldn't repeat in any company. They make clear that their opposition to the Democratic Party is due to its increasing diversity that reflects the changing face of America.

Those most angry at the results of the primary, insistent that the elections were all stolen, are the same people who schemed to find ways to exclude the votes of "Southerners' and "confederates"--non-white voters--who favored Clinton and who in fact make up the base of the Democratic Party. For those whose notion of "equality" or "progressivism" requires excluding those votes and the concerns of those voters are in fact regressive rather than progressive. Despite their use of the term "progressive" as a club, they seek to move back in time, which is by definition regressive. Of course it is impossible to turn the clock back, all the more so when the past sought is idealized and willfully ignores the rampant inequality that characterized earlier eras hearkened back to.

It looks to me like we are seeking a continuation of the party realignment that began in the mid-1960s. People who pretend to be on the left are announcing an intention to vote for Trump because they so resent the growing influence of women and people of color in a nation they believe should be fixed in a past when the majority was excluded from political power, equal rights, and economic opportunity. The racial and gender divide in politics may indeed be growing even more, but the Democratic Party is not the loser in that scenario because it continues to better represent the concerns of the electoral majority, even if the composition of that electoral majority has changed over the past fifty years.

[PowerToThePeople]

160. ^^ This post is bull$#!7

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

151. Adios! A bientot! Ciao! Peace!

[obamanut2012]

155. "I will never support Hillary ever"

Well, as per TOS, you have to, and cannot post what you just posted.

[obamanut2012]

156. lolz

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

157. So long and thanks for all the fish!

[trof]

158. I hear ya, bud. True words.

Smooth seas and following winds.

[NurseJackie]

159. Well, good-bye.