The Pistorius tragedy is just another example of why I hate guns.

[Nye Bevan]

There are so many news stories where a gun-toting homeowner mistakes an innocent person for an intruder and kills them, compared to the number of news stories where a homeowner successfully uses a gun to protect themself from an actual intruder. Keeping a gun at home for protection just seems like an insane risk. Just get an alarm system and keep your doors locked.

[guillaumeb]

1. People who live in homes where there are guns

are at higher risk of dying from gun violence.

A fact that NRA apologists like to avoid.

[anoNY42]

2. I'm not sure one can compare those two types of stories...

It seems to me that stories about a homeowner shooting an intruder only make local news, whereas a homeowner mistakenly shooting a relative he thought was an intruder tend to be more likely to make national news. That might be why you hear about the latter more than the former.

I agree that keeping a gun at home means you are more likely to die from a gunshot, but it doesn't really seem to rise to the level of "insane risk"...

[Orrex]

5. Well, that's how it goes.

The news doesn't run stories on airplanes that don't crash or on people who don't die during routine medical procedures. Statistics for these are available, after a fashion, but they require some research by the person who wants to find out.

I'd be interested to hear how many times an armed homeowner actually repels an intruder. They can't be too common, or the NRA would make sure that such stories jump to the top of every news cycle. It seems more likely that "successfully repelled the intruder" stories are quite rare.

[TeddyR]

8. I've seen studies that discuss

Defensive gun use statistics but not sure if those are broken down by in-home v. other uses. There are news stories on a regular basis of gun owners using firearms to protect themselves from intruders. These are all from the last few days:

http://www.daily-times.com/story/news/crime/2016/07/02/gun-wielding-homeowner-stops-armed-burglary/86567780/

http://www.myhighplains.com/news/homeowner-holds-theft-suspect-at-gunpoint-till-police-arrive

http://www.wpxi.com/news/homeowner-shoots-man-after-apparent-home-invasion/386794678

http://m.monroenews.com/news/20160706/huron-homeowner-holds-burglar-at-gunpoint

http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/deputies-homeowner-shoots-kills-intruder/383516706

http://www.ktnv.com/news/man-shoots-bedroom-intruder-on-tuesday-morning

http://m.yourhoustonnews.com/deer_park/news/six-la-porte-teens-charged-in-home-invasion-armed-robbery/article_ad018fee-b97e-517b-b562-21599a57bf59.html?mode=jqm

[Orrex]

10. I admit that that's interesting.

The WPXI story particularly surprises me since the shooter has opted not to press charges against the alleged intruder. Why they hell wouldn't he?

Anyway, it would be interesting to compare how many shootings occurred during that same period, for comparison. Then we could form some opinion about the deterrent value of firearms versus their potential for enabling lethal activity.

Edited to add: Here's another story from WPXI, for comparison:
http://www.wpxi.com/news/14-year-old-shot-killed-during-fourth-of-july-celebration-in-rankin/385480750

[anoNY42]

16. To be fair

the comparison in the OP was stories of "intruders" vs stories of "accidental shootings of mistakenly identified intruders". The comparison was not "defensive gun uses" to "criminal shootings in general".

[BigDemVoter]

3. Yeah, I agree.

The older I get, the more anti-gun I become. I remember when I was a child, and my mother didn't want us pointing toy guns at one another. At the time, I thought she was being stupid, but I COMPLETELY understand now.

This isn't the Wild West, and this insistence on having WEAPONS is terrifying. I have a burglar alarm that works great, and I'm not going to risk killing somebody by accident (including myself or a guest) by having a damned gun in the house.

[Initech]

4. The guy in Baton Rouge who got killed selling his album is another example.

And Orlando. And Sandy Hook. And Aurora. And Trayvon Martin. And Freddie Gray. And the hundreds of other mass shootings and people who are killed by police violence. I could go on and on. Fuck the NRA.

[TeddyR]

6. What does police violence have to do with

The gun issue?

[Initech]

11. These innocent people wouldn't have had to die if police didn't have guns.

The police are declaring themselves judge, jury and executioner.. And people like I named died for that reason. Which makes it a gun issue.

[TeddyR]

12. Ok, understood

But police should be armed because they have a dangerous job. The fact that some cops are killers doesn't justify making the others defenseless.

[DustyJoe]

7. Tragedy for the murder victim

Pistorius girlfriend was murdered in cold blood sitting on the toilet as he fired through the bathroom door to the area he knew the toilet was. Hardly an intruder scenario as he tried to fool the court into believing.

[lapislzi]

9. One. This was a domestic violence issue. Two. You cannot compare South Africa with the US.

Yes, a woman is ELEVEN TIMES more likely to be killed by an intimate partner when there is a firearm in the home. Pistorius had a long history of domestic violence with Ms. Steenkamp. It's well documented.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/12/oscar-pistorius-reeva-steenkamp-murder-normal-relationship

So there's that. On the face of it, this was an open-and-shut case of a man murdering his partner. Like most well-to-do South Africans, Pistorius was crazy paranoid about break-ins. That's why he lived in a fortress. But, this time, there was no intruder and he knew it. The forensics bear it out.

South Africa is unlike anywhere in the US. I lived there. The affluent (mostly whites) lived in barricaded walled compounds. It's hard to imagine the level of fear and worry about break-ins and violent crime--it's unbelievably common. Two of my former workmates were murdered in their homes. My ex-brother-in-law was carjacked twice at gunpoint. This are not isolated occurrences. This is what people in Johannesburg and Pretoria live with every day. It's historical; it's racial; it's poverty-and-privilege-driven--all the things you'd expect from a society that is largely still living under defacto apartheid. I can go into a lot more detail, but I won't clog up GD. Message me if you want to know more.

While firearms are common, the rules for owning one are much stricter than in the US. You have to pass a course administered by the police force. You have to go through a background check and a waiting period. Everyone.

There's a lot more to this than just a homeowner making a fatal error.

[deaniac21]

13. I don't think the Blade Runner

was mistaken.

[lapislzi]

14. I believe you are correct.

I've been following this case since its inception.

The judge was unusually lenient. The insane sports culture in South Africa may have played a role in this. Sports figures are held to very different standards. Just a hunch on my part, but I lived there a long time.

[Calculating]

19. Same here

I think he knew exactly who he was shooting at.

[ileus]

15. Always ID your target.

[lapislzi]

17. What makes you think he didn't?

It's one of the first things they taught me at the range in Johannesburg where I learned to shoot. You don't get a gun until you can present the police department with a certificate of proficiency with your chosen weapon.

[ileus]

18. He shot through a door.