General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLawyer: Officer who shot Philando Castile reacted to gun, not race (bulls**t)
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/07/09/lawyer-minnesota-cop-reacted-gun-not-race/86894752/Oh I get it, black people aren't ALLOWED to have guns. Even when the gun is licensed.
bdwker
(435 posts)underpants
(182,800 posts)Evergreen Emerald
(13,069 posts)It is difficult to talk about this without being attacked so please do not jump to attack or call me racist. I am coming from a perspective in which my family and friends are police officers who do not have an ugly bone in their body and who do their best to help people. Here goes.
Given the state of America, with the proliferation of guns, and officers routinely getting killed for pulling people over for a traffic violation, it is see-able that the officer would be startled when someone does not follow their commands. I also think that there must be an internal belief in which race plays a role in their reaction: not that they are consciously thinking that they are shooting the guy cause he is black, but rather they react differently. When it is a person of color they think "the guy is going to kill me". And when it is a white guy who does not follow the commands, they may not always feel that fear.
I don't know what happened in this specific case before the video started or how it escalated.
But, what happens when the officer asks the person to keep his hands on the steering wheel numerous times, and instead of obeying, the driver reaches behind him? Now at that point, the officer fears for his life. Should the officer wait for the gun? By then it is too late--if there was a gun, he's dead. Why would the officer think that he is up to no good? Perhaps because he did not keep his hands where the officer could see them?
So, to solve this problem (and I agree there is a problem) we start with the stop. Many times these horrific deaths start with a traffic stop and escalate. Why is there an escalation? What exactly happens? What is the thought process of both the driver and the officer? How do we stop that escalation? Why does escalation end in death more for people of color? Dehumanizing all of law enforcement is wrong. It does not solve the problem--it sends people to their us-v-them corners.
mr_liberal
(1,017 posts)uponit7771
(90,336 posts)... Ice Cube wrote verses on this in his raps during the 80s and 90s
Evergreen Emerald
(13,069 posts)I don't think it is conscious racism for every officer (some, but not every). I don't believe every officer is thinking that he wants to kill the people of color. I believe that there is something more: "this guy with the gun is going to kill me." Or, "this guy with furtive movements is going to kill me." And, that thought occurs to some officers more when the guy is a person of color.
uponit7771
(90,336 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)puffy socks
(1,473 posts)"and officers routinely getting killed for pulling people over for a traffic violation, it is see-able that the officer would be startled when someone does not follow their commands. "
Officers are not "routinely killed" for pulling over for traffic violations.
Right now the police are saying they believed the car contained an armed robber, yet they stop the car and saunter up to the window asking for id ? No way any officer with a brain would have been anywhere near that window. They would have pulled the car over and barked commands from their own vehicle.
Does that sound like they truly believed he was the robber with a gun? If they did believe that , why such a stupid move? The cop put himself in a risky situation.
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"But, what happens when the officer asks the person to keep his hands on the steering wheel numerous times, and instead of obeying, the driver reaches behind him? Now at that point, the officer fears for his life. Should the officer wait for the gun?"
This isnt even remotely close to what happened, so why pull out the straw man?
MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)have no idea, but it ain't the full 500.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)spin the narrative,the Ramsey County Attorney is a Nam Refugee and understand he is a no nonsense type of guy.
Igel
(35,300 posts)There's what the officer said on video. There's what the girlfriend said on video.
While a fair number of people have said she was "narrating events," she was giving her summary while the closing credits to the main event rolled, followed by her reaction when she realized that her boyfriend wasn't just shot in the arm. (Seriously. Unless the bullet hit the bone even I, whose gun experience was using a .22 at scout camp in '74 and using a shotgun to disperse a sparrow with extreme prejudice in '83 or so know that skin and meat don't stop a bullet fired at close range.)
And, to be honest, there shouldn't be a lot of evidence presented so far. It'll be investigated by various and sundy. What's left is disbelief because, well, we already know who's guilty and what the punishment has to be. Unlike some in the past, though, we just don't have the balls to grab the guy and implement the punishment ourselves.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)John J. Choi made history on January 3, 2011, when he was sworn in as the first Korean-American Chief Prosecutor in the nation.
https://www.ramseycounty.us/your-government/leadership/county-attorneys-office/meet-john-j-choi/biography
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)Heard he is a no nonsense person.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)The two words every defense attorney wants to instill in every jury, "reasonable doubt".
This is how cops get away with racially motivated first degree murder.
malaise
(268,993 posts)People called police to tell them a man was walking around with a rifle - the dispatcher told them they couldn't do anything about it - the man then opened fire and killed several people.
He was white
Igel
(35,300 posts)Same for the black guy with the gun in Dallas. He walked around for quite a while with no problem. No harassment. No arrest.
But when the shooting started, the situation changed.
The problem with imperfect analogies is that analogies are only good to the extent that what's described is analogical. When the two situations veer apart, the analogy stops holding. Spotting that requires analytical clarity. Emotion and advocacy get in the way of that.
malaise
(268,993 posts)Philando Castile was executed was by cop
Rex
(65,616 posts)How fucking pathetic. Castile said he had a gun and a CCP...I hope the cop that shot him rots in prison one day. ROTS.