Dallas Mayor Calls Bullsh*t On Open Carry: It Didn’t Help During Shooting, And Made Things Worse

[Photographer]

http://www.ifyouonlynews.com/politics/dallas-mayor-calls-bs-on-open-carry-it-didnt-help-during-shooting-and-made-things-much-worse/

Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings (D) stood next to Texas Governor Greg Abbott (R) and dropped an extremely uncomfortable reality check: Open Carry, the movement pushed with near-fanatical obsession by Texas Republicans, not only did nothing to help stop the mass shooting of police officers in Dallas, but it actually made the situation far worse. Open Carry had an opportunity to justify its existence – and it failed on every conceivable level.

For Rawlings, examining the aftermath of the shooting made it clear that having dozens of scared civilians clinging to assault-style weapons during a mass shooting was a recipe for disaster. The “good guys with guns” didn’t suddenly become action heroes bravely stopping a heavily-armed lunatic. They acted like any of us would: When the shooting started, they scattered in every direction in terror of their lives. Only unlike others, these fleeing victims were strapped with weapons that sowed confusion. Any of them could have been a shooter attempting to blend in. At a moment when cops were being targeted by a sniper, officers had to track down these “innocent” gunmen just to make sure they weren’t one of the bad guys.

As Rawlings explained:

It’s logical to say that in a shooting situation, open carry can be detrimental to the safety of individuals.

Here’s how bad the situation became in Dallas during the shooting:

Rawlings said Dallas police Chief David Brown told him that people running through the shooting scene with rifles and body armor required officers to track them down and bring them to the police department. Whether that was time that could have been spent trying to find and stop the shooter is something police will have to comment on, Rawlings said.

In other words, the exact reason gun rights activists often give to justify “guns everywhere” bills is false. They don’t keep people safe, they put people’s lives at risk by causing chaos.

A major in the Dallas police department was equally furious about the danger Open Carriers put the rest of the population in. Maj. Max Geron pointed out that the police scanner was filled with chatter of confused officers desperately trying to figure out who was a bad guy and who was an Open Carry supporter while calls of “officer down” continued to ring out.

/Snip. More at link.

[gopiscrap]

1. about time

watch him not get re-elected

[uponit7771]

11. No, he'll no doubt get re-elected in DFW... the GOP overtly gerrymandered the place but not on

... local elections.

Rawlings has been stand up so far

[Ash_F]

40. The Dallas mayoral election is pretty safely blue.

The primaries would be between him and someone to his left actually.

[Liberal In Texas]

49. Dallas is a progressive city.

Despite how all the Texas bashers like to paint the whole state with a broad brush, Mayor Rawlings is mostly very liberal. (I disagree with him about the toll road they want to put on the Trinity River levees, but that's another story.) The biggest challenger he had in the last election was Marcos Ronquillo, who can only be described as even more liberal.

Dallas County is blue, we voted for Obama twice. The Dallas County Judge, Clay Jenkins (who is the head administrator for the county) is also very progressive. You might remember how great these guys preformed during the Ebola scare. Many members of the City Council are also progressive. Democrats don't win all of the elections every time, but we do well here.


Our Flag (for real)

[Warpy]

2. Mayor Rawlings tells the truth.

The best predictor of dying from gunshot is owning a gun or living in a home where a gun is kept.

Guns don't make anyone safer. Proximity to them is life threatening.

Long guns are necessary tools in rural areas, so a total ban on civilian firearms is not going to happen. However, we can do better than we are doing now. Rescinding open carry laws is a good first step.

[calimary]

3. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

More guns = MORE CARNAGE! Here's more proof.

[cynzke]

70. Every One Armed To The Teeth Including Officers In Blue.

But it didn't stop a deranged individual DETERMINED to kill people. Then in the chaos that ensued, the police had no idea who was possibly the bad guy among those civilians lawfully OPEN CARRYING their weapons. On the other hand, had this been a gun free zone, it would have been more difficult for this deranged man to access the area with his weapons by merely walking out in the open. Had he been seen, the police would have stopped him. No guarantee the loon could have been stopped, but the odds were then in favor of it.

[RKP5637]

4. K&R !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! n/t

[Hoyt]

5. He's 100% right, and anyone who takes a gun to protest isn't a "responsible" gun owner.

[Jopin Klobe]

6. Humans almost never face a problem directly ...

... unless it affects them directly ...

[jtuck004]

7. Doing the job of a leader. Thank you. n/t

[AllyCat]

8. Moron ammosexuals cost American lives.

[muntrv]

9. CJ Grisham, the ammosexual slamming the Dallas Police, can go Cheney himself.

[uponit7771]

10. AMEN!!! Big ups to Rawlings and Brown !!

[LiberalLovinLug]

12. The next election cycle the NRA will make sure someone more to their liking wins

[Eleanors38]

13. I think concealed carry is much preferred to OC.

[Duckhunter935]

27. I agree

[Hangingon]

36. I agree that oc is preferable.

There is a distinction between open carry of a long arm and hand guns. The rules are different. Long arms may be carried but must be unloaded. To me, open carry of long arms is for show and does harm to RKBA.

The mayor contends that this incident is proof of the uselessness of civilian carry. Any open carrier or CHL who has been trained would have stayed out of the way and let the police handle the action.

[Stinky The Clown]

63. Since they would stay out of the way, why do they need a gun at all?

[Hangingon]

65. For self defense against an immediate and direct attack on themselves and/or bystanders that

The police cannot stop.

[Cosmocat]

73. Except

because they had no idea who was shooting who ANYONE WHO WAS SEEN WITH A GUN WAS TO BE DETAINED.

"Trained" or not.

Waste of time and resources, added to the confusion, and frankly, dog lucky under extraordinarily chaotic and fearful times that law enforcement was disciplined and restrained enough to not end up shooting anyone of these people.

[Hangingon]

75. Yes, oc would have to be cleared. I am glad DPD had discipline in finding the source of shooting...

And dealt with it. It is regrettable that time w's spent clearing the long arm oc. It would not have been my choice to carry to such an event. It was his right.

[NoMoreRepugs]

76. not picking a fight just asking a question?

IF you and I were there and both exercising our rights and somehow you were running at me with a long rifle and I was crouched behind a car with my weapon and FELT MY LIFE WAS IN DANGER would you be upset if I shot and killed you?? Reason I ask is that here in Florida I'm almost a 100% sure I'm within my legal rights to do so.

[Hangingon]

82. If my weapon was slung or holsrered, as it should be in this scenario ...

It would not indicate threat to someone with training. If I was shot, I would be upset and would hope the police and prosecutors would also be upset. Upset to the point of prosecution of the shooter. But I guess I would not know since I would be dead - righteous but dead.

[NoMoreRepugs]

84. slung or holstered agree - but the panic that ensues when one hears gunfire

makes that a hit or miss for most people I would guess. I spent 6 years in the USMC and can tell you that if I was running with a rifle it would be in my hands rather than banging off my legs n back - those 6 years in the corps (71-77) showed me very few people are capable of rationale decision making when under duress - and we were all supposedly trained.

do appreciate your taking the time to respond to my original query...

[Eleanors38]

86. My preference is for concealed carry for self-defense...

Some people believe that carrying provides an auxillary force for LEO, this includes some advocates of bearing arms. But the chief function for civilian carry is self-defense, not "helping out" the cops, so I agree there.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

14. Be aware that when the cops first roll up to a crime scene

they really don't know what's going on.

people need to use critical thinking.

[63splitwindow]

15. Thank you Mayor.

How about one open carry amusement park in Texas where all the ammosexual assholes can go kill each other if that's what they want to do. I'd contribute to having it built and so that it could offer FREE admission and BEER!!!

Should we start a GO FUND ME account?

[rladdi]

16. Most law enforcement is against it, but they have no voice or say when it comes to

the Republicans passing a bill. The NRA and ALEC Org. have been shoving that down ever states throat for a years, Another one is carrying guns on college campuses and bars. For some reason, common sense doesn't mean anything to the NRA or Republicans And they actually cannot give any good reasons for their actions. About 2 weeks ago a new assault weapons manufacturing plant opened up in GA. For some reason NRA and GOP just continues the promotion of those war weapons.
It amazes me at how some radical law makers/ politicians ever get elected with their views. i
I feel this November election is a turning point on the survival of the USA.
Also I believe Dallas Chief Brown son was killed by a Cop in Phoenix, AZ a few years ago. Never any charges.

[tblue37]

25. Apparently Chief Brown's son was high on PCP and had shot someone else before getting shot

by the cop. In a situation like that, there is no reason for the responding officer to be charged.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

38. His son killed two men - one was a cop

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dallas-police-chief-david-brown-has-lost-his-son-former-partner-and-brother-to-violence/2016/07/08/01419ea8-451c-11e6-8856-f26de2537a9d_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_police-chief-315pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Chief Brown has endured more grief due to gun violence and drug culture than any human being should have to endure.

[Dustlawyer]

72. Many rank and file cops support the NRA and whatever they say, including open carry.

[malaise]

17. He is correct

Rec

[maryellen99]

18. Wasn't the main pusher of Open Carry in TX

A woman who was with her parents during the Luby's shooting and says if she had her gun,which she left in the car,she could've saved her parents who were killed?

[63splitwindow]

20. Don't need "open" carry to address her concern...

"concealed" in her purse would do it.

[MisterP]

62. seems to be a common thread among OC/CC types

[Straw Man]

85. No.

Wasn't the main pusher of Open Carry in TX

A woman who was with her parents during the Luby's shooting and says if she had her gun,which she left in the car,she could've saved her parents who were killed?

That was Suzanna Hupp. She advocated for concealed carry. Texas law at the time allowed her to carry her pistol only in her car, which is where it was when she saw her father killed in front of her. Her mother was killed while trying to follow Suzanna to safety through a broken window.

[vkkv]

19. K&R

[brett_jv]

21. Should also call into question the entire 'good guys with guns' argument in general ...

Dozens of armed, trained LEO's and they still weren't able to prevent 5 of their own from being killed. Hell they didn't even kill the shooter with their guns, they had to use a remote-detonated bomb on a robot to take him out.

Let me just also point out I've been SAYING THIS EXACT THING in my arguments with the ammosexuals on FB and elsewhere for friggin' YEARS.

Having a bunch of armed (but most likely, untrained) civilians in a chaotic mass-shooting situation is probably the WORST POSSIBLE THING. All it does is create more danger, more confusion, and make it harder for the police (the ones who's actual JOB it is to deal with it, and also the ones TRAINED to deal with it) to get a handle on the situation.

If any of the open-carriers had decided to try to 'take matters into their own hands' and fire back at the sniper, they almost surely would've got shot by the cops ... Shit, the cops have NO WAY of knowing whether you're 'on their side', or another one of the perps. They pretty much HAVE to shoot your ass.

People carrying guns around cause they fantasize that they're one day gonna get to be a big 'hero', cuz they went all Rambo on some bad guy ... is just fcking stupid ... unless your real aim is suicide by cop.

[turbinetree]

26. I remember some time back that these open carry people "staged an event"

and it failed like three times, good guys against the bad guy--------------the bad guy won all three times, -------------amazing

[TeddyR]

48. Silly argument

You want to restrict gun rights because the police couldn't stop an ambush from killing multiple people?

[brett_jv]

52. No I want to point out the NRA and their ammosexual friends arguments are bullshit ...

I didn't actually say anything about 'restricting gun rights', now did I?

Here's another article on the matter ... pretty spot on if you ask me ...

[MyOwnPeace]

53. YES!

among other reasons.....................

[underpants]

22. Good for the Mayor

[DemonGoddess]

23. K&R!

[tblue37]

24. K&R. nt

[Arizona Roadrunner]

28. Carrying a gun in and of itself maybe a problem

When I went through some police training at a college level in the late 50's, we were told if you have to shoot it is for control meaning if you can shoot them in a limb which will allow you to have control, that is what you do. You don't automatically "shoot to kill".

The problem today is that it appears that since so many people can carry guns with or without permits depending on the state, many police appear to over react just because someone has a gun even if it is in his pocket. I have read several stories where people who had guns refused to get involved with going after a "shooter" because they knew when the police arrived, just by having a gun, they might get shot. Therefore, what good is it to carry a gun if you are not going to be able to use it or have to fear that just by having a gun, you will be shot and probably killed since they shoot to kill?

[Eleanors38]

32. The CCW person is far less likely to commit a crime compared with the gen. population.

[LanternWaste]

79. Committing an accident though, is far more problematical.

Committing an accident though, is far more problematical.

[Eleanors38]

83. Thus 90 gun accidents per 100 mill. gun owners exceeds that of 100 mill. non-owners?

The 90 figure is the high end of estimates of -15yoa kids killed every year by gun accidents.

[jmg257]

34. These days you are taught to "shoot to stop" - which means center-mass.

No one teaches shoot to wound. Notion being if you are shooting in the 1st place your life is in IMMEDIATE danger.

I also think many civilians carry a gun not to be heros and save everyone, but just to prevent being a victim themselves/loved ones from typical violent crimes.

[Arizona Roadrunner]

45. Immediate defined

Who defines "immediate"? Does just the possession mean you are of sufficient "immediate" threat to shoot to kill? By the way, one should also look at the role if Insurance companies in this situation too. Under what circumstances do they pay claims etc.?

Sorry but most "open carries" are doing so to "show off". If you are serious about not being a victim, you don't open carry because if someone wants your "stuff" and you are open carry, they will shot you first and deal with the rest later.

[jmg257]

46. Oh agree about open carry - I don't get it either. Immedate is usually expressed as "imminent",

but past that, if you are shooting that decision has already been made - and you are in DEEP shit, so trying to pick off body parts is not a good idea.

[Cosmocat]

74. He is correct

the standard in law enforcement today is to shoot to kill, basically.

Anyone who would suggest trying to "wing" someone is a training would get dressed down in a pretty clear manner by the trainer.

That said, I agree totally on the open carry stupidity.

Just childlike black and white movie fast draw stupidity.

[realmirage]

29. I'm fine with logical anti-conceal arguments, but this one isn't logical

In this scenario you have a hidden sniper, which concealed carry does little to counteract. But in a different case like, say, the one in Paris, concealed carry could have been effective.

You can't take this one scenario in Dallas and apply it to all situations.

[Paladin]

30. K&R.

[malaise]

31. When will M$Greedia interview this man? n/t

[WcoastO]

33. Hypocrisy at its best...

Like clockwork, the conservatives who up until yesterday were all about “Blue Lives Matter” turned on police because of these comments. According to the president of Open Carry Texas C.J. Grisham, officers should be fired for complaining about his right to carry an AR-15 in public.

If you can’t identify a threat, you shouldn’t be wearing a uniform. It’s not that difficult to tell the difference between a bad actor and a good actor.

Were Castile, Sterling and Tamir Rice "bad actors"?

[randr]

35. A "well regulated militia"

I guess the founding fathers had it right to start with.

[bucolic_frolic]

37. We were safer

when citizens kept their guns at home for safety and for hunting

and the police were likely the only ones armed

it made police jobs easier too

Now even our finest have fear too

This is not working

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

39. I grew up in an era with rifles in your pick up truck

But they stayed there. No one carried them around to prove their manhood.

[bucolic_frolic]

42. it was that way here too

strict rules about transport, had to be in trunk, unloaded

usually they only were transported to the firing range
or for deer season

I doubt the genie can be re-bottled

[Ash_F]

41. Most people can't even figure out who they want to punch in a bar fight.

I am not sure why people don't realize how hard could be to figure who's who in a shootout without uniforms.

[groundloop]

43. What, the open-carry folks didn't have their 'Good Guy' hats and badges on?

Gee, if they'd have only been wearing their 'I'm a Good Guy With a Gun' hats and badges the cops wouldn't have had to waste all that time figuring out who they were.

[Pakid]

44. Open carry was always a stupid idea

it needs to end nationwide and end now!!!!

[63splitwindow]

78. I'm guessing one of the great reliefs experienced by common folk...

upon the "taming" of the wild west was that every yahoo and his drunk uncle wasn't walking around with a pistol strapped to their leg making every imaginable conflict a potential shoot-out.

[RB TexLa]

47. An open carry permit, concealed permit or simply owning a gun does not require you to defend anyone

No one has a responsibility to use any weapon to protect anyone. This includes law enforcement.

[Photographer]

50. You're going to need to explain that one to me.

[RB TexLa]

51. No one has any obligation to protect anyone else

If I have a gun and witness someone shooting people I do not have to do anything.

[Photographer]

60. And this has what to do with what???

I'm guessing you are trying to defend open carry?

[RB TexLa]

67. I'm saying people having guns, concealed, open or what doesn't mean

they are or have to protect anyone.

[Photographer]

68. Okay... And in what context is this statement supposed to be taken as in there has been

no mention of open carriers being obliged to protect the feckless remnants of society such as myself who have decided not to carry firearms?

[Orrex]

71. Then we can get rid of that "militia" nonsense from the beloved 2nd Amendment

A militia that doesn't protect anyone is nothing more than a bunch of posers standing around oiling their barrels.

[Iggo]

54. Open carry is for show.

No different than these guys:

[Stinky The Clown]

64. This^^^

[brett_jv]

55. And let's make no mistake about WHY these 20 dudes w/assault weapons were THERE ...

in the first place.

Pretty damn good chance, they were white dudes. The one photo of 'em I've seen ... showed a white person with a AK-looking gun on his back (sorry if that's wrong, not a gun lover).

And I'd bet $$$ to donuts that they were ALL there ... to with the explicit intent of intimidating the peaceful BLM protesters with their big 'ol guns. KNOWING that there's basically no chance any BLM'ers are going to show up armed to this sort of event.

I'd also wager that, at a minimum, 10 out of the 20 were PRAYING that riots and looting would break out, so they'd have a chance to do them some c**n huntin' (their thoughts, not mine, don't mean to offend anyone but THEM).

[IronLionZion]

56. Good guys with guns look exactly like bad guys with guns

because guns make people look like they might be bad.

This started with two men being shot dead for telling police they have guns, without even touching the guns or committing any crime. Having a gun can get you killed.

[JoePhilly]

59. + 1

[bora13]

61. my thoughts exactly

great minds think alike. to bad much of the country has a problem one way or another with reason.

[Skittles]

57. NO SHIT

this this evident to ANY NON-GUN HUMPER

[40RatRod]

58. Is this factual???

The only three sites I could find it on are extremely suspect and are known as such!!!. I don't want to be left hanging when I post this as a fact and have my "wingnut friends" correct me. I have a bad habit of researching their rabid posts and correcting them with facts.
Thanks, Carl

[Liberal In Texas]

66. Face the Nation

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/face-the-nation-transcripts-july-10-2016-rawlings-johnson-bratton-brooks-cummings-giuliani/

[Surya Gayatri]

69. Thank you, Mayor Rawlings, for rubbing the gun-worshippers' noses in their lethal BS.

[lostnfound]

77. Oh he's gonna get hisself kicked outta da Texas guvment clubs

Probly already did

[RussBLib]

80. gee, do you think this could prompt the Texas Lege idiots to re-think Open Carry?

Fat chance.

Dream on.

Their dicks are inextricably wound around their guns.

[Doctor_J]

81. The gunsters often claim that guns are to protect them from the oppressive government. Yet

when a citizen uses his gun against what he views as an oppressive government agent(like an aggressive policeman), all hell breaks loose. Just another anti-reality view from the gun culture.