Shit. It has started. The other day, a patient brought a gun in to the clinic.

[Aristus]

Waved it in the face of a colleague, and then demanded narcotic medication.

He was told to leave the weapon in his car, and he pulled the usual "I got my rights" horseshit.

Nobody got hurt this time...

Goddamn fucking gun owners...

[lapfog_1]

1. He has a right to have the weapon on him

he does NOT have the right to wave it around and demand things... that's called armed robbery.

A call to 911 would be in order.

[Aristus]

4. That's what I told the clinic manager.

Shit, this is just going to get worse.

Gun-psychosis is born of the belief that you can coerce people to do whatever you want if you threaten them.

[Aristus]

57. Yeah. Inspiring quotes from syphilitic gangsters.

Just what the situation needed...

[Aristus]

77. Not spoiling for a fight.

Certainly not the way gun-happy narco-boy was.

He upset a colleague that I care for and respect. I'm not feeling warm-fuzzies for gun-owners right now...

[Aristus]

95. I hope you can appreciate that the feelings of gun owners are not on my list of priorities.

If you bring a medical condition into my clinic, you'll get good medical care. If someone bring a medical condition and a gun into my clinic, he'll be getting his problem assessed by the prison provider. And he can talk to the prison shrink about his hurt feelings.

[Eleanors38]

187. Your attitudes are noted. The response to them WILL BE to dig-in and double-down.

You have a problem with a criminal, yet you go after some 90,000,000 fellow Americans. This is why gun control is nothing more than culture war, and you seem to feel you have a free-pass to go after a vast population with righteous indignation. This seems more important to you then any societal goal you wish to achieve.

It's not a pretty sight to see "liberals" get their hate-on, just like others we would condemn in a moment should they do the same.

[Mopar151]

192. Please get over yourself.

Guns kill more than car accidents now. I know some very serious "gun people"- 3 deer-a-year hunters (the venison is excellent!, and they don't like trophy hunters either),- Hi-power rifle marksmen, one a state champion some years ago, -Trap shooters who are in leagues like bowling...
All of them are appalled/scared shitless of the "open carry" crowd. Most keep their guns locked up and hidden, both for safety and to not be a target of theft. "She was carryin a kid on her hip, and was packin' something HUGE in a hard-shell holster. And the kid kept kickin' the holster!!" " I am NOT doing 10-20 years 'cuz some asshole made me lose it."
I've also talked to some serious range shooters who don't go any more, because they don't like being around the people that are flocking the place now.

[Eleanors38]

194. Sorry. Sweeping stereotypes will be countered. Including yours. nt

[Mopar151]

195. As I previously stated......

Who, exactly, are you to sit in judgement here? And what sweeping stereotypes did I use? Those are real people I cited, and the quotes are quite accurate. It's not laws, it's culture. NH is "the gun state", VT has very few gun laws. Until the '90's, I saw very few pistols, and most of them were collector's items. I'm a dab hand with a 6-station, turret shotshell loader, too. "Open Carry" in these parts, outside hunting season, and you will find yourself friendless, and hungry, since you will be continually thrown out of grocery stores and resturaunts.

[Eleanors38]

196. I apologize for my remarks to you.

It seems that some (not you) are granted a free pass to trash, take advantage of, cash-in on events, and use sweeping language that would be otherwise condemned.

[crim son]

99. I'll step in here and say that I have immense anger

and distaste for most gun owners, if only because rather than address the horror of what Aristus is describing, they divert attention with the "he had a right" argument, or even more inappropriately, with a bad joke. Gun owners can have a direct impact on gun policy but instead they have their heads up their asses, all claiming to be responsible and safe even as they shoot their neighbors and children every damned day. Even if you only own to hunt, it is your responsibility to step up and demand reform.

There is a time and a place to be the smart ass and, CI, this isn't it.

[MidwestTech]

179. Please consider rephrasing to gunhumpers

I own two firearms, riffles, which i only use for the range.
They are family heirlooms at this point.
otherwise I completely agree with you. these fucking nutters are a danger to everyone around them.

[SkeleTim1968]

111. Reminds me of The Fonz

Happy Days was so popular , and Fonzie probably the most popular charcter on the show. He routinely threatened to get what he wanted and stole free juke box hits, was a womanizer etc. and he was looked highly upon. I could never figure that out as a kid. But all my friends wanted to be just like him.

[7962]

149. And all the "cool kids" would dress like him too

[etherealtruth]

6. You beleive he has the right to have it "on him" ...

... on private property (owned by someone else)?

[awoke_in_2003]

101. My doctor's office

has a sign on the door (and one in the parking lot) saying that guns are not allowed on premises. As long as those signs remain, I will continue to go there.

[raven mad]

165. awoke, I'm serious - this state doesn't enforce that. At all.

Go to a family restaurant with lots of little kids? Dude walks in with a pistol on his hip? No recourse. Welcome to Palin world.

[Nitram]

170. There is recourse. Leave without paying.

The clinic director should have called 911. If we don't respond with direct action, nothing will change.

[rug]

31. He doesn't have the right to bring it inside the clinic.

[Mopar151]

193. Any of the medical facilities I use have a "Strict NO WEAPONS policy on this property" sign.

And it's a long list..

That said, if getting the wack-a-doodle out the door without the cops worked, it's probably safest. A word to the wise to the local PD would be in order, in case he acts up again.

[sarisataka]

42. He does not have the right

if the clinic prohibits weapons. Private property right trump RKBA in almost all instances,

Even if they allow guns in the clinic, there is no right to brandish and threaten. RKBA does not allow the use of firearms. Use is allowed only in certain, legally defined, limited situations.

[dynamo99]

86. not "on him" in my state

Not if there's a sign on the door that says “CLINIC BANS GUNS IN THESE PREMISES.”
Though the law is pretty toothless (they still have to tell you to leave, and if you don't it's trespass, which is a petty misdemeanor).

Gah, DU has been sluggish lately. Type a word and sit back and wait.

[aggiesal]

96. His only right is to own it ...

the law gives him/her the privilege to carry, but he does not
have any right or privilege to carry it on private property.

Even if this facility serves the public, the proprietor of the business
can refuse service until the weapon is removed from the premises.

[calimary]

104. Rights, schmights. He does NOT have a right to go out in public and deliberately menace people

with his damn fucking gun. NONE WHATSOEVER. That is NOT in the 2nd Amendment, no matter which way the apologists and excuse-makers try to twist it.

[Bragi]

171. Isn't "menacing the public" the idea behind open carry?

Why else have an open carry law other than to let gun owners intimidate others?

[NoMoreRepugs]

178. totally agree with you.. a question....

if I feel threatened because I see someone displaying a gun..... holstered - rifle slung over the shoulder type situation - do I have any 'rights' to alleviate that threat? That person has done nothing wrong or threatening but I feel threatened by WHAT they might do in the next few seconds - or am I just going to have to wait until it's too late??

I lean towards not waiting, consequences be damned.

[calimary]

183. THAT is the problem with open carry. Right there.

It's a battle just BEGGING to be sparked. That in-yer-face business almost never ends well. Somebody openly parading around with their assault rifles and other firearms in full view, seems to me, is just asking for trouble. ASKING for a confrontation. DARING one to happen (I guess, to prove how tuff 'n' macho you are...). It CANNOT end well. Amping things up like that - DOES NOT END WELL, CANNOT end well, and WILL NOT end well.

Especially in this day and age, with everybody jumpy and on edge and worried, with nerves frayed, and fear and paranoia all over everywhere, stoked by the media and hyperventilating politicians like Trump, it's just ASKING for trouble. It's skirting way too close to the edge. It's playing not just with fire but with bombs and napalm. It's a fuse just begging to be lit. In THIS climate now, I can't imagine anything LESS well-advised.

And, frankly, to say it's "asking for trouble" damns it with faint praise. It's practically DEMANDING trouble.

I DO NOT get why some people insist that doing so, swaggering around in the open, loaded up like this, all decked out as visibly and flagrantly walking talking menaces, is somehow worth it. Sorry, I just don't.

[NoMoreRepugs]

190. agree w/ "asking for trouble" - I find it very hard to believe there aren't numerous instances

where something isn't occurring daily in states across the country that go unreported by the media but do happen..

from minor scuffles and shouting matches to weapons being pointed and possibly discharged.. especially with guns and alcohol being the ultimate combination for something to go awry

[calimary]

197. The more guns available? The more likely they are to be USED.

I use an anecdote from my own personal life to inform this position.

I've posted about this before but not for quite awhile.

I had two friends - a really close and beloved girlfriend and her adorable nephew - people my husband and I were both totally comfortable letting our kids hang out with. They lived in Central California up in the mountains where there were acres and acres and acres separating everyone from their nearest neighbors. Out in the sticks, on a ranch. And yes, there were guns. Guns aplenty. They both grew up with guns, in that environment. People hunted for their dinner, and for meat supplies in the winter if it was too snowy to go into town for groceries. Guns of many kinds were very much a part of that culture. She'd spent her entire life around guns, learning how to use them, handle them, respect them, clean them, store them, store them SAFELY, deal with them responsibly and carefully. She knew all that. So did her nephew. They both had a CLEAR understanding about what a gun could do. They were both friends with the local police and she actually worked and volunteered with the police department quite frequently. THEY HAD BOTH GROWN UP WITH THIS AWARENESS AND SENSITIVITY. They were both ULTRA-well-qualified to be members of the "Good Guy With A Gun" club.

And then one day, they had an argument.

And it got pretty doggone heated.

And at one point, it reached such a fever pitch that she grabbed a gun that was there in the room, within easy reach, and blew him straight to Mars.

At that point, her mother, in another part of the house, had heard the noise and the gunshot, and became frantic. Started yelling her daughter's name - "Brandie! Brandie! (name changed here) What happened? What's going on??? Where are you??? Are you okay???" Racing across the house in desperation to find out what had happened. And just in those few moments, my friend had enough time to grab the gun again, step behind an open door, and blow her own brains out.

ALL IT TAKES IS ONE ARGUMENT. ONE! And even the most well-educated, sophisticated, knowledgeable, experienced, and responsible gun owners can lose it, and go nuts. And things can go directly to Hell without passing "GO" or collecting 200 dollars, as they say in the Monopoly game.

No one will ever be able to convince me otherwise. I've lost TWO friends, because of it.

[Humanist_Activist]

2. Uhm, that prick belongs in jail, what they did was called "brandishing" and is illegal...

unfortunately, its no guarantee that, if found guilty, they would be forbidden from owning guns ever again.

[LuvNewcastle]

28. That seems like a perfect example

of someone 'brandishing' a weapon. I don't know the penalty for it, but I think it's illegal in every state. The police should certainly been called. It might not be too late. Sounds like there were plenty of witnesses.

[Humanist_Activist]

43. Too be honest, it sounds too perfect, and the idiocy of the person committing the crime too stupid..

then again, some people are extraordinarily stupid.

[calimary]

106. Obviously too stupid to own a gun.

[Statistical]

85. Brandishing (also known as menacing in some jurisdictions) is a felony in many jurisdictions.

Felons are forbidden from owning firearms. Solves two problems at once.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

100. It's assault with a deadly weapon if he points it at anyone.

[jmg257]

3. Anyone call the cops?? nt

[Hoyt]

5. Exactly, they got their rights, they are responsible, etc., until something happens and they aren't.

And, they are the worst judge of whether they are responsible enough to own or carry guns.

Glad no one was shot by the rude toter.

[mwrguy]

7. call 911

[hack89]

8. That was a crime. Someone should have called the cops

that person needs to lose the right to carry in public.

[B2G]

9. A little more detail would be helpful.

Did he have the gun visible and holstered or was he actually holding it in his hand? Does your clinic allowed firearms on the premises? Did he return it to his car when told to? If not, why weren't the police called? Did he get the narcotics?

A lot of missing information here.

[greiner3]

32. OP stated he pulled it, pointed it at personnel

And demanded drugs. Your post fails

[thesquanderer]

38. fwiw, OP didn't actually say he pointed it at personnel.

Still sounds like threatening behavior, though.

[Fla_Democrat]

139. It kinda reads that way........

Waved it in the face of a colleague, and then demanded narcotic medication.



Unless the colleague had left their face on the coat rack or on a shelf... it sounds like it was pointed at personnel......

[thesquanderer]

146. You can wave something in someone's face without pointing it at them.

For example, the barrel of the gun can be pointed toward the ceiling while you're waving it in front of their face.

[Fla_Democrat]

151. Maybe... the 'patient'

was pointing it at them-self. And it was the butt end all up in someone's face..... it may have been that way.

[Straw Man]

162. It's still "brandishing."

You can wave something in someone's face without pointing it at them.

For example, the barrel of the gun can be pointed toward the ceiling while you're waving it in front of their face.

And it's still illegal.

[thesquanderer]

167. Yup, not defending it.

It was merely a response to greiner3 who seemed to assume something the post didn't actually say.

[Straw Man]

188. OK.

Sorry if I implied that you were. Not my intention.

[frankieallen]

48. I think your post is the one that fails.

[lostnfound]

40. In other words it's your responsibility as a non-gun owner to take video everywhere you go

So you non-gun-owners can later demonstrate that the person carrying the weapon did indeed 'brandish it'.

Otherwise, go back to your fearful little non-gun-owning minds and leave us to carry whatever or wherever we please...

[alfredo]

120. Security cam?

[pinboy3niner]

127. "and leave us to carry whatever or wherever we please"

Do you even hear the words coming out of your keyboard?

[cliffordu]

160. I think that one needs to go....

[lostnfound]

174. I was being facetious.

I find the idea preposterous that a society that restricts cold medicine and non-flame-retardant sleepwear for kids has a policy of allowing open public carrying of guns on their person, whereupon a person who feels threatened by said weapon should then have to prove that the gun was "brandished".

I don't think the standard is so high for imaginary guns being carried in the waistband of AA youth. Just the mere "reaching for the waistband" (18 such cases, all unarmed, in 4 years http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6791990.html) is considered a good enough excuse for armed police to fear for their lives, while mere unarmed mortals are expected to be okay with open carry as long as there's no "brandishing".

The double standards with these laws, as so clearly shown in the Philando Castile case and the Tamir Ruce case and the gentlemen killed in a Walmart and in so many other cases, is impossible to resolve.

[lancer78]

158. The only fearful person

Is the one who feels he has to carry a gun in public. For 13 years, I worked late at night and sometimes had $10,000 in cash on me. I was a rental manager in a bad neighborhood. If anyone has a "need" for a gun in public I did.

Guess what, in those 13 years I never carried a gun or felt I needed to.

[Heeeeers Johnny]

10. Wut!?!

What's the background to this incident?

Is this a drug treatment clinic and is the guy a user (former or current)?

Do you know, or are you assuming, this person is even legally permitted to posses and/or carry a firearm?

This sounds more like a fucking criminal with a gun than anything else.

[greiner3]

34. Wtf

Only a criminal after he commits a crime. Your post fails too

[LongtimeAZDem]

11. He had no right to brandish it as you describe

That was assault, at a minimum; press charges.

[Frank Cannon]

58. Assault with a deadly weapon, you mean.

I am not believing the original post. Needs much more 911 calling and involvement of the local police.

[LongtimeAZDem]

109. I tend to agree (nt)

[ileus]

12. you of course meant pillheads.

Was he/she arrested? Did you dismiss them?


Rights don't allow for illegal use like you speak of...



My DW writes dismissal letters 3 or 4 times a week, she also wrote her FQHCs no gun policy. She doesn't blame guns for a drug habit.

[cherokeeprogressive]

13. That guy belongs in jail and his guns should be confiscated. Period.

I have absolutely no problem with someone who brandishes a firearm in a threatening manner being charged with and convicted of a felony.

Absolutely. No. Problem.

[Heeeeers Johnny]

16. OP's colleagues didn't call the cops...

because they probably believe it's more important that they not the violate sacred trust and
bond they've established with their "patients", rather than put a drug addled shitheel behind bars
where he belongs.

[cherokeeprogressive]

19. When the guy pulls a gun, he's no longer a patient. He's a criminal. I understand the sarcasm but...

It's precisely this kind of situation that lets you know what's in someone's "make up" and whether or not they can be trusted with their own weapons.

Not to mention it's a felony.

Take his guns, lock him up, and start the process of fixing his head.

[B2G]

21. It's not felony if he wasn't actualy 'waving it around' and

returned it to his vehicle when told to.

But it seems we'll never know because additional details don't appear to be forthcoming.

[greiner3]

35. He was told to leave

Second fail

[Frank Cannon]

63. I don't buy the story to begin with. n/t

[7962]

150. especially if no cops were called.

[B2G]

69. He was told to leave the weapon in his car.

Do we know he didn't take it out?

You're going to give yourself a killer headache there pal.

[irisblue]

50. Aristus has posted during lunchbreaks b/4.Are you implying this is a post&run

You seem to want more info right frigging now? Man has to work sometimes.

[Nancyswidower]

59. Aristus said .."The other day, a patient brought....."....

[Heeeeers Johnny]

23. He was a criminal before he even brandished the firearm and made the demand.

Under federal law, he/she is a prohibited person and is legally disqualified from possessing firearms...

who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act, codified at 21 U.S.C. § 802);

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/identify-prohibited-persons

[B2G]

30. You don't know he was an addict or why he needed the drugs

And it seems none of us may ever know.

[Orrex]

49. Well, he demanded narcotic medication, according to the OP

From this I infer that he's probably not addicted to sports drinks.

[AllyCat]

148. Monster? Or OxyContin?

Which shall it be today? Love your response!

[LiberalFighter]

26. They don't have to continue having him as a patient.

[Heeeeers Johnny]

27. They should just shrug it off and let some other clinic deal with him.

[Aristus]

44. Hold on there, cowboy. I didn't say no one called the cops.

I wasn't here for the incident, and am only relaying the story as told by the clinic manager and the Dr. involved. I don't give a hoot in hell for the 'sacred trust' of gun-crazed criminals. He had a concealed-carry permit, but stated to my colleague that he "didn't feel like concealing" it. She states that he said he wanted her to know he had it. There was no 'Guns Not Permitted On The Premesis' sign posted (although there will be one now!...)

[The_Casual_Observer]

14. What's the point of wearing a gun if you can't threaten somebody with it?

The number of people that will be murdered by nuts with guns will surely increase.

[Marengo]

15. Are all gun owners like him?

[shenmue]

84. Dumb ones are

It only takes one to mess up your day.

[Marengo]

89. I would agree, but the OP didn't include that qualifier.

[Mariana]

17. What do you mean, "It has started."?

If it happened as you described, it was an armed robbery, or an attempted armed robbery. You think armed robbery is a new thing?

[greiner3]

37. No

If anything it continues but happens to be OP's first experience. Way to show empathy for the OP

[Mariana]

51. I do wish the OP or colleagues had called the police

and made some attempt to have the armed robber arrested and charged, instead of just griping on a message board. The OP mentions nothing about reporting the crime. From the sound of it, they just let him go on his merry way. Armed robbers are very dangerous people. Next time this one goes out to commit armed robbery, someone may very well get hurt or killed.

But hey, "Nobody got hurt his time" so who gives a fuck about next time?

[geardaddy]

18. Stay safe Aristus.

Sorry that happened to you.

[deaniac21]

20. This story seems a bit odd.

[leftstreet]

29. +1

I'd say fishy

[frankieallen]

45. +2

agreed, very fishy

[greiner3]

39. Wtf don't you understand

The OP is a medical provider of unknown capacity working in a pain/addiction clinic.

[Aristus]

46. No. We're a primary care clinic, and I'm a Physician Assistant.

n/t

[Frank Cannon]

71. You're a PA, and you didn't call the cops?

Were you not concerned for the safety of your patients, let alone your own safety?

I call bullshit, Sir or Madam.

[Aristus]

72. I wasn't in the clinic at the time. I only heard about it this morning.

I think you and your attitude are on the wrong site...

[Frank Cannon]

74. My attitude is fine. Your post is incredible.

By "incredible", I mean "not able to be believed".

[Aristus]

76. Well, it's kinda like evolution. You don't have to believe it for it to be true.

I'm not a big fan of sensationalism. I related the incident exactly the way the clinic manager did to me.

[Frank Cannon]

81. Well, that explains it.

You are reporting something that someone told you about something that someone saw happen. I am thinking that there were some crucial details left out in the retellings.

[Feeling the Bern]

143. Okay, private eye, why don't you go there and investigate yourself instead of being a keyboard

ninja and insulting people from the safety of your home on your computer?

Come on, tough guy. . .find out where this clinic is and ask the tough questions.

Your snarky, flippant, haughty and extremely rude comments all over this thread are beyond reproach and disgusting. Don't bother responding to me. I have no desire to get into a discussion with someone as uncivil as you.

[Duckhunter935]

153. Did anyone call the police?

Link to an article in the local paper? I would think a man waving a gun around in a clinic would make the news

[Frank Cannon]

82. +1000

[Duckhunter935]

152. Just a bit

[jack_krass]

176. +1000000. BS detector activated almost immediately (sorry OP, no offense intended)

[In_The_Wind]

22. Damn!

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

I didn't worry about you while you were at work
except for the occasional cold you seem to pickup.

[Ilsa]

33. Healthcare is a dangerous profession.

Generally, I didn't feel well-protected at work in my hospital until they placed a metal detector at the door. Even then, we had to be careful about not entering certain hospital wings late at night. And patients' friends and families would bring in booze, even when the patient shouldn't have it. Some patients, if under the influence, were combative.

Serving the public when they are feeling bad or in pain can be dangerous.

[greiner3]

47. I'm on blood thinner

And have my level checked at an outbuilding associated at the local hospital.

They recently had to add an electric lock as they had some suspicious and desperate types demanding drugs

Funny thing is there are zero drugs there as. Pharmacists run the clinic.

I'd say the average patient is 75 and has serious heart disease.

[In_The_Wind]

53. Thank you for all that you do.

[lpbk2713]

24. There is certainly no right to display it in a threatening manner.

That could have turned into the OK Corral if there was another carrier present.

[Vinca]

25. I don't know where you live, but where I live in NH a store can put up a

"no guns allowed" sign. I would definitely do it if you're a clinic dispensing opioids. Scary.

[Curtis]

41. At the least it would be considered brandishing

nt

[Javaman]

52. In most civilized nations that would be considered armed robbery.

but 'merica.

[jmg257]

98. I think in America it is too...using force/threat of force to take property is a felony.

It is also one of the few offenses that is justification of the use of deadly force to prevent.

[turbinetree]

55. Time to put up a sign NO GUNS ALLOWED

and if you bring one on the property, I will call the COPS did you not read the sign

Its all about them and there narcissistic "rights" no one else is allowed into the picture

[paparush]

66. Cities and States are proposing and passing laws preventing this.

[turbinetree]

88. It's amazing how "Preemptions Laws" are affecting this country

and how some in the legislatures of power, are disparaging the fact that people want to be safe, just like what the NRA did in the 1990's with the "maximum preemption" and continuing this line of attack preventing localities from passing additional regulations


Source:
American Prospect Magazine Summer 2016 edition

Blue Cities Red States By Abby Rapoport

http://prospect.org/

[Statistical]

92. What city and/or state?

Private property is private property.

[JohnnyRingo]

56. I think his problem is opioid addiction...

...rather than some 2nd amendment rights issue.

I highly doubt he would have done this for blood pressure meds or Viagra. Being unable to attain the drugs doctors addicted him to, he's likely a future heroin user. I hope the clinic guided him to recovery.

[enid602]

60. treatment

If only quality medical and psychiatric treatment were as accessible as guns. . .

[Squinch]

73. If only guns were as rare as quality psychiatric treatment.

[RobinA]

172. Touche!

[paparush]

61. What City in What State?

People on here saying he doesn't have a right to carry a gun in a clinic. That really depends on state and municipal laws and ordinances.

[Bluenorthwest]

79. No where does anyone have the 'right' to wave a gun in someone's face making demands

What happened was armed attempted robbery and the 'clinic' took no action against their 'client' for reasons I can only guess at. What they did was not the right choice.

[Initech]

62. This is getting scary. The gun nuts are out of control. Thanks NRA!

[hack89]

67. Or the drug addicts are out of control. nt

[Initech]

68. Or drug addicts with guns.

[hack89]

70. Which is against federal law. nt

[Warpy]

64. We always said we'd just toss them the keys to the narc cabinet

and go into a patient room to call the cops. None of us wanted to get hurt just because some gun toting addict wanted some dope.

One hospital in town has metal detectors at the ER so these lunatics can't bring their binkies with them. They all should.

[Squinch]

65. Why is it that many of the people I know with substance abuse problems also like to

carry their guns around with them.

Seems to be a common combination.

[LynneSin]

78. And damn narcotics medicines too

Opiate medications + guns = not happily ever after for someone

[Warpy]

105. They're usually pretty peaceful unless they're Jonesing

Now drunks are the worst. Alcohol + gun = somebody's gonna die.

[PatSeg]

80. Damn, that is scary

[shenmue]

83. Yipes

[Statistical]

87. So nobody called the cops when a patient brandished a firearm?

And at least to me seemed to commit armed robbery.

Please let me know the name of the practice so I can be sure to never go there. I mean even though he left nobody is concerned about the next person he might threaten, or that he might return.

He is an addict with a propensity for violence and a gun. Eventually he is going to run out of pills and someone with get hurt.

[IgelJames4]

90. Holy crap, that must have been terrifying

I'm glad you're ok. I can't imagine what I would do in such a situation.

[sheshe2]

91. Stay safe, Aristus!

[Aristus]

94. I'm hoping to be able to talk to my colleague who was involved and get

her reaction. All I got so far is a dry e-mail from the clinic manager detailing the incident and the planned follow-up (a No Guns sign on the front door, for starters...)

I've been held at gunpoint before, and believe me, it's no fun. I hope it never happens again...

[sheshe2]

108. That must have been a terrifying experience,

Obviously you know all about that first hand.

Stay safe my friend.

[Aristus]

97. Okay: Update: My colleague and the clinic manager managed to de-escalate the situation.

I just spoke with her, and she added some details to the situation. She checked the state narcotic database, and yep, he was doctor-shopping. She told him to put the gun away, and that she was not going to give him an opioid Rx. Pretty brave, but he backed down. Neither she nor the manager called the cops. Probably because cops are shitty at de-escalating potentially violent situations, as we all know.

Still, the no-gun signs will be here soon. Put them on every available wall and door, I say...

[Spitfire of ATJ]

107. Wonder if you'll get picketed by Ammosexuals.

[Statistical]

110. Why not call the cops even after he left?

Brandishing a firearm is a crime. Depending on the exact circumstances he may be on the hook for more serious charges (attempted armed robbery, assault with deadly weapon, etc) but the brandishing charge is open and shut. He should be charged and hopefully his firearms taken away. Then next time people might not be as lucky.

What is the point of gun laws if they aren't enforced.

[Kali]

112. seems like he might be a danger to other people

I can see not wanting to involve the cops for someone mentally ill, but the person is clearly dangerous. it is irresponsible to just let him go threaten others.

[Duckhunter935]

154. Why not report it to the police later, after he left?

Maybe some extra patrols? I still think this story is fishy.

[Francis Booth]

155. A 'NO GUNS' sign won't do shit. It's a piece of paper, like a restraining order.

That man committed armed assault and attempted armed robbery of opiates.

Whoever decided to *not* call the cops haven't done anyone any favors. That addict is still out there with his gun, still willing to threaten force to get what he wants.

What he did was a very serious felony in all 50 states, and your clinic let him walk away to offend again, or worse.

Pissing and moaning about assault with a deadly weapon, while letting the offender walk away without any repercussions, is about the single dumbest action I can imagine.

And I wish someone could explain to me the physics of the NO GUN sign. I'd be interested in what kind of field it uses to magically keep guns off of the premises.

[backscatter712]

185. Glad you're OK, but I would call the cops.

Waving a gun around - that's felony menacing/brandishing. That dipshit SHOULD be in jail.

[riversedge]

102. k and r.

[Downtown Hound]

103. That was armed robbery, and the police should have been called

First of all, even in states where open carry is legal, any business or establishment has the right to ban them and customers from carrying them on their property. There's lots of great youtube videos of open carry morons, excuse me, activists, literally getting kicked out of one restaurant after another because none of them would allow them to eat at their establishments while brandishing heavy weaponry. So no sir, you don't "got your rights." If he refused to leave his gun behind when asked, then he is guilty of a crime.

Second of all, brandishing around his weapon while demanding medication is a threat. Even if he didn't point the gun at anybody, there is a very clear, implied threat there. Which makes that armed robbery or, at the very least, extortion.

Unfortunately, the clinic that you work at let him get away with it, which does not bode well for this addict's future behavior. He has now learned that he can threaten people with a gun and get away with it. Next time, those unfortunate enough to serve him might not be as lucky as all of you were.

[Aristus]

113. He didn't get away with it, in terms of leaving with what he came for.

She denied him an Rx for opioid meds.

Bringing the cops into would have resulted in somebody coming out blazing, leading to deaths. These days, I'm not so sure it wouldn't have been the cops...

[Straw Man]

114. He absolutely did get get away with it.

He committed a crime with a firearm, and he walked away scot-free. Now there's no reason for him not to try it again, hoping to get someone who is easier to intimidate.

Bringing the cops into would have resulted in somebody coming out blazing, leading to deaths. These days, I'm not so sure it wouldn't have been the cops...

Judgement call, but there's absolutely no reason not to call the cops now and make a full report of it. It would be irresponsible not to.

[Aristus]

115. Well, that's on the clinic manager.

Hope it won't happen again.

[Straw Man]

116. Yes.

Well, that's on the clinic manager.

Hope it won't happen again.

I would suggest making it a policy to call the police for any threats of violence. And it's not too late to make a report. If the staff are willing to testify, you could get a conviction out of it. That might help modify this man's behavior.

[Sunlei]

161. perhaps you need to call the police and ask them what to do.

Because anything mr. gun threatener does in future is 'on you' now.

[RobinA]

173. Judgement Call

is right. That's what is required when you have a gun toting addict in a clinic full of staff and patients. Get the guy and his gun out the doors. Police aren't always the best at that.

[Straw Man]

181. But ...

... absolutely no reason not to call police after he is outside. None.

[Eleanors38]

189. So, the cops WERE NOT contacted. Jesus Hyper-ventilating Christ...

Blowhole is out and about "again"....shopping.

[raven mad]

117. Aristus, I own guns.

Two. Both long barrel. One shotgun, one rifle. I also live in Interior Alaska, and sometimes yelling and banging pots and pans and throwing rocks doesn't deter bears or moose.

Don't blanket all gun owners in one statement. I totally understand where you're coming from, but the last time I shot at anything, it was a tree branch so I didn't hit the moose in the yard, 4 years ago.

[Aristus]

119. Hunters and people living in the wild I can understand.

You and they are not the problem. They never have been. I actually like that a lot of hunters have progressive views. it is important to them to have strong environmental protection laws so they can continue their way of life.

It's the suburban commandos I have nothing but contempt for. The soft-bellied douchebags who think they have to go heeled just to go to the grocery store. That nutbag in Portland last week, waving his pistol at peaceful protesters. People who, for whatever lame-ass reason, think they are no longer relevant or valuable in a changing society, and don't have the intelligence or the imagination to contribute constructively.

My wife has a cousin whom she calls "Asshole Bob", because he is. Constantly swaggering around with a gun on his hip like he's freaking Wyatt Earp or somebody. He lives in Port Townsend, Washington, which is one of the most laid-back, safe, boring, unthreatening, New Age-y, hippie places in the state. No threat from anybody. Yet there he always is with his gun.

[raven mad]

129. I don't hunt, much anymore. Bit oh, heck yeah do I know what you're saying.

It absolutely kills me (not literally, yet) to go to Anchorage for a doctor's appointment - it takes a full 14 hours to get there - and see idiots walking around a medical center with Colts and Smith and Wesson on their hips. Ok, what are you going to shoot? The serenity pond?

I think a lot of it is lack of confidence. But hey, you can choose your environment. Me, I'd rather have a barrel of badgers than big-city living.

[Hekate]

118. I hope you and your colleagues remain okay. Sorry about the amazing amounts ....

....of *holery in the responses here at good old DU, that bastion of compassion and thoughtful responses.

[lunatica]

121. That's damn scary!

I hope you can legally make people not bring their guns into your clinic.

[Aristus]

122. We're working on it.

Thanks.

[Frank Cannon]

123. This whole thread needs to be deleted.

There is simply no way this scenario happened in a primary care facility in the United States of America, when it wasn't reported to the police. This is a blatant CRIME and any licensed healthcare professional would treat it accordingly and act appropriately!

I would report this thread to the moderators, but apparently you can just make stuff up in General Discussion. It doesn't matter if you lie in order to start discussion.

[Aristus]

124. It didn't happen to you. So it didn't happen?

Okaaaaaay...

[Frank Cannon]

125. Not how you describe it.

That's not how healthcare facilities work in this country. Maybe come back later and give us a bullshit story about something that happened at a fast food place or an insurance agent's office.

[Aristus]

131. I wouldn't know.

I've never worked at an insurance agent's office.

And I haven't worked fast food for about three decades.

[raven mad]

163. To be honest, Frank?

I'd like to see you do what Aristus did, without any weapons close to hand. I beaned a guy with a gun in a post office years ago - using a stapler. And yeah, I can outshoot most of the men I know. Scared the heck out of a moose yesterday with a bean pot and lid - moose are easy compared to humans.

[Texasgal]

128. *ahem*

Have you been to a county run hospital or county run clinic care lately?

Violence is very common!

Are you a healhcare worker?

[Aristus]

134. Thank you, Texasgal.

BTW, San Antonio, born and raised...

[Texasgal]

140. Healthcare workers

and Texans stick together!

[pinboy3niner]

130. Your posts in this thread should be deleted

I'll trust Aristus a hell of a lot more than your unsupported and rude opinion.

[Aristus]

135. Thank you, pinboy.

[pinboy3niner]

145. We know your longtime record here as a straight shooter

And serving as a caregiver only ups your creds.

[KingCharlemagne]

169. +Infinity! - nt

[Feeling the Bern]

133. Accusing someone of being a liar is against the TOS of a personal attack

BTW, are gun humpers so insecure that they now use the "if she doesn't have a name, you don't have a girlfriend" line from the archives of the high school bullies?

[jack_krass]

177. Yep. Any clinic would have immediately called 911. This (as described) is felony armed robbery.

[applegrove]

126. Stay safe.

[Feeling the Bern]

132. But, but. . .he has a right to do that, according to the NRA. He's just a good guy with a gun

He's there to protect you from a bad guy with a gun.

[Aristus]

136. Oh yeah.

Let's all sing along. We know the words...

[Feeling the Bern]

141. me me me me. . . la la la la

Good guys with guns kill bad guys with guns
Without the good guys, life would be no fun
If you outlaw guns, only outlaws have guns
Because open carry is only for white men and women.

Good guys with guns protect everyone
From that good white daughter to that good white son
From my cold dead hand you'll have to take my gun
And open carry isn't meant for black men and women.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people
Just like knives, spoons cars and throwing from a steeple
I can always make a new child, but this is precious gun
Guns, guns, guns for terrorists, insane. . .hell, for everyone!

Did I get the lyrics right, Aristus?

[Aristus]

142. Perfect.

[Skittles]

137. gun humpers are the biggest cowards on the planet

fuck them all

[Aristus]

138. You are the perfect example of how one doesn't need a gun in order to KICK ASS!

[RoccoR5955]

144. Just another

Gundamentalist ammosexual. Leave him alone, and let him sleep with his freedom protector.
The dumb shit!

[hibbing]

147. Stay safe n/t

[still_one]

156. A facility should be able to set rules in whether they allow firearms or not in their facility.

[Statistical]

180. They can. What makes you think they can't?

They can also call the police when someone brandishes a firearm regardless of what their policies are.

[still_one]

182. I know they can. That was actually my point. A fire arm doesn't have to be brandished for the

police to be called.

If they have a no firearm policy, and someone brings a firearm into the facility, and they refuse to remove that firearm, the police can be called based on trespassing, since they are not following the facilities policies.

In many cities, emergency rooms have metal detectors, and people are required to take forbidden articles back to their car, or have the security hold the item for them, before they are allowed into the ER

[Generic Other]

157. Scary to think this happened locally

Glad your colleagues stood their ground against these "open-carry" cowards. Sharp words can sometimes make even vicious dogs back down.

Yet another example of the utter cowardliness of such curs jonesing for notches on their cocked guns. Did you hear what the dozen or so open carry dudes did during the Dallas shootings? Stand their ground? Good men stopping bad ones like the NRA swore they would do? Nah. They ran like frightened little bunnypants.

Hugs to you for having to put up with horseshit on your thread. My ignore list grows.

[raven mad]

164. Aristus, you know Alaska is "open carry". The best weapon at public places?

Humiliate the hell out of 'em. One dude left the grocery store when I asked him if he could please not aim it at the artichokes. LOL! We were at the Clear, AK bluegrass festival, and had our "attack travelling kitty" with us. Dude, and I'm not kidding, went to go to the outhouse and left his .44 on the blanket about 4 feet away.

Yep, attack kitty peed on it. Fortunately, the outhouse line was long, and we were done laughing by the time he got back!

[barbtries]

166. i think brandishing it

constitutes a crime even if carrying it didn't. i'd press charges.
wonder how bad it has to get before it gets better...and how long the pathetic corporate media will continue propping up a dissolving party like the republicans. our country is so fucked up right now!

[Cooley Hurd]

168. It's already happened here in NYS:

http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/suspect-in-lockport-hospital-holdup-was-former-patient-of-dr-gosy-20160509

[jmg257]

186. And that guy was wacked enough to use fake guns and bombs...

Kibler is accused of going into the emergency room at Eastern Niagara Hospital just before 5 a.m. Saturday and demanding drugs. He carried two rifles and wore a backpack that he told the hospital contained a bomb. Police later determined the bomb was an “inert” device and the guns also were reportedly fake.


The hospital gave the thief a small amount of an unnamed drug. Radio transmissions indicated that the drug was six doses of the opioid Dilaudid in intravenous form. A nurse called the city Police Department, and officers quickly responded and noticed Kibler as he was leaving the emergency room. He dropped the weapons and backpack.

“The State Police Bomb Squad was called, and the device in the man’s backpack turned out to be inert,” city Police Chief Michael F. Niethe told reporters Saturday. Niethe said that one of the officers fired at the suspect but that he was not hit.

Pretty risky, apparently willing to get shot.

[irisblue]

191. shame there isn't carefully marked bait bottles of IV ex-lax

[Marengo]

175. I cannot fathom why law enforcement wasn't contacted, and whoever made that decision...

Needs to be terminated ASAP.

[backscatter712]

184. If he has his piece out, that's brandishing, or felony menacing.

He's essentially threatening people with his weapon.

Fucker belongs in prison.