A Question For Russian-speakers: Donald Trump's patronymic?

[Vogon_Glory]

A question for DU's Russian-speakers: since Donald Trump seems to have a bro-mance with Vladimir Putin and appears be the beneficiary of a massive hack by Russia's intelligence services, what would Donald Trump's Russian patronymic be?

I think it's time to have some wicked good fun needling Donald's "America-first" fan base, particularly those who still rail about alleged "commies" in the Democratic Party

Please post your replies to the board so we may all enjoy.

Spacebo.

[treestar]

1. Fyorderovich

[Pacifist Patriot]

3. Yep, and what an ironic name too.

Both Donald's and his father's.

[Brickbat]

4. That's kind of a reach, since that's the equivalent of "Theodore."

Russian doesn't really have an equivalent for "Frederick."

[treestar]

6. I thought it was Frederick which could mean

most of the public would not know that! We can get away with this!

[ProfessorGAC]

2. Interesting Idea

Interesting screenname too!

I can still read Russian, as in i know the alphabet and pronunciations, but i probably don't remember more than 50 words.

Otherwise i'd love to throw something into this thread.

[FSogol]

5. Drumpfshit?

[malthaussen]

7. Cthuluvich n/t

[rug]

8. Jackoff.

[MineralMan]

9. They're based on the father's first name.

I don't know Donald Trump's father's name, but that's how they're generated.

[ProfessorGAC]

10. Yep

John Jr, is Ivan Ivanovich. Jane would be Ivana Ivanova.

[MineralMan]

11. Exactly. They're a hangover from olden days, when

populations were much smaller and one Ivan was known from other Ivans based on the patronymic. Ivan, Ivan's son, identified him in a society smaller than today's societies.

In Scandinavian countries, patronymics became family names. If you trace back the family tree of the Nelson family, eventually you get back to some ancestor who was named Nels. As the population grew, such names no longer worked to identify people very well, but in Russia, patronymics are used still by most people. It's an interesting cultural novelty these days, though.

Farther west, family names derived from the trade or occupation of the original namesake, with Miller, Smith, etc., reflecting someone's father's trade. In other traditions, last names derived from places where the person lived. Today, that's all mixed up and no longer relevant.

Languages are fun!

[RonniePudding]

12. His father's name was Fred, i believe

[MineralMan]

13. Well, Fred or Frederick isn't really a Russian name,

so a patronymic doesn't make much sense. Drumpf is of German heritage, anyhow, so patronymics aren't really in his tradition. Place names following Von were used for German royalty and trades were used for pretty much everyone else in old German tradition.

Patronymics are more used in Slavic and Scandinavian cultural naming practices.

So, the question really doesn't make a lot of sense when applied to Trump.

[Vogon_Glory]

14. It may not make good sense, BUT

Last edited Tue Jul 26, 2016, 01:39 PM - Edit history (1)

It may not make good sense, but I wanted to know it for snark, not for good manners. So, Donald Fyodorvich or Donald Fredovich, he with his in acknowledged campaign assistants working out of Moscow's Lubyanka. 🙄

[Igel]

17. No, you'd use the full name.

For a name like Ivan you could say the person's Vanya or Van'ka, but his kid could only be Ivanych ("Ivanovich&quot , never "Vanich".

My father was called by a shortened form of his surname or by "Bob", but I'm only a Robertych, never a Bobych. (Which is old fashioned for a dolt or idiot, btw. Sounds like the patronymic from Russian "bob", which means "bean." If somebody's father really had the given name "Bob" he'd use the patronymic Ivanovich, to avoid the unfortunate "Bobych". "Ivanovich" is where most people who need a patronymic but whose "proper" patronymic is unacceptable end up.)

[Igel]

15. No prob.

And it doesn't matter if it's a Russian name or not, as long as it can follow the rule, which is that it end in a consonant. Zhao is a problem.

Donald John Trump son of Frederick

Дональд Фредерикович Трамп
Donal'd Frederikovich Trаmp

Stresses: DO-nal'd Fre-de-RI-ko-vich

In conversational speech it's free-dee-RI-kich. That -ovich long ago was reduced to -ych or -ich. Very stiff pronunciation of the patronymic is free-dee-RI-kuh-vich, lots of brief syllables with the dee-RI middle being longish.

Stress doesn't change from the root name used in patronymics. In surnames, though, if there's an -ovich of Russian (or East Slavic) origin then it's stressed -O-vich. Voinovich has stress on the middle syllable. Yanukovich is stressed on the "o". (If they're Serbian or Croatian in origin, stress pulls back one: Milosevich isn't stressed on the -ovich, but the preceding syllable. The e/o change is normal, but don't ask.)


The ' in Donal'd is because Donald is there because l and l' are different sounds, and Russians pronounce "Donal'd" with a palatalized l'.

It's "Tramp" and not "Trump" with a "u" because in English it's more like "truhmp." That uh sound is much closer to a Russian "a" (sort of like in "father" but not as long in duration) than to a Russian "u" (like the oo in "boob&quot .

No, it's nothing like the English word "tramp", which in Russian would be written "tremp" because the "ae" sound in words like "tramp, fan, can" is much more like the Russian stressed "e".

Frederick isn't a Russian name, but it's been around long enough. Google the patronymic and you get a fair number of hits. Many are immigrants, some are historical (when German influence in Russian was much higher than today). After WWII it would have been avoided.

One important point: Even the Wiki page (always a valuable place to check for oddball vocab) avoids his patronymic. It has "Donal'd Dzhon Tramp" because he's not a Russian speaker and the only time you'd use the patronymic is if you're in Russian or carrying over how you usually refer to somebody in Russian. So you can form the name, but he's not integrated enough for it to matter.

Very few Russians have bothered to use my patronymic (Robertych), and most did so because they were uncomfortable with US norms and felt a psychological need to have something in that linguistic space. Otherwise we've either kept my first + last name (formal), full first name (seldom done in Russian), or used a hypocoristic. Hypocoristics are shortened names: Theodore may be Fyodor, but there's Fedya, Fed'ka, Fedochka, two variants of Fedushka, etc. In English we only have Ted and Teddy, and bizarre things like "Teddykins". Perhaps Igel would become Izha.

[Brickbat]

16. More likely Igel would become Yozh.

[RapSoDee]

18. #ComradeTrump

strikes a familiar note.