The type of ignorance we're still struggling against

[Saviolo]

Here's a man, a pastor, preaching to his church, that women must be subservient to men. That men are naturally leaders, and that women are naturally servile and just WANT to be dominated by men.

From Patheos: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/08/04/christian-pastor-men-rule-over-women-at-home-and-ill-arm-wrestle-any-woman-here-who-disagrees/

In a recent sermon, Pastor Steven Anderson proclaimed that “the husband’s the head of the wife,” then laughed off criticism that he was misogynistic because, he continued, “it’s like a new word” and he wasn’t interested in jumping on some “trendy” bandwagon.

I get an email every day calling me “misogynistic.” What a stupid word. This is, like, a new word. I never heard that when I was a kid. I didn’t hear that. Did you hear that growing up?…

See, I don’t go with all your little trendy words and all your little trendy concepts. You know, people have been doing it my way for the last 6,000 years — in all cultures, pretty much, in all nations of the world, and it’s worked out great for a lot of people.
Anderson doesn’t get the problem with misogyny because things have “worked out great for a lot of people.” Which is true. Men are doing just fine.

And “misogynistic” isn’t a new word. (It’s actually from the mid-17th century.) Saying you never heard it growing up, as if that’s an argument for why this isn’t a big deal, is like saying there’s no sexual harassment taking place at Fox News Channel because Roger Ailes has always been nice to you. Just because you’re not the victim of it, and people don’t always talk about it in public, doesn’t mean it may not be happening.

Anderson continued:

But all of a sudden, we’re supposed to get on this trendy little faggoty type of a relationship where, you know, my wife and I are supposed to dress the same, act the same, look the same, talk the same, live the same lifestyle, have the same authority.

I want to tell Anderson to get a dictionary and look up the word “misogyny” so he doesn’t keep misinterpreting it, but I’m pretty sure he has a rule against opening up a second book.

Here is where the fight is, folks. Hearts and minds. These people are looking up to this man as an authority and he's telling them with holy authority that women are weaker than men, and inherently want to be dominated.

His followers will vote for Trump before they vote for Hillary. They will believe that Hillary is subverting the natural holy order of life by trying to become president. Not all of them, obviously, but I grew up religious and I know lots of religious people and many of them believe everything told to them in a homily or sermon, because "that holy man up there wouldn't lie to us, would they?"

From the article:

There are no doubt women who accept and appreciate their traditional gender roles. But you know what would make that argument even stronger? Giving them the option of working outside the house, being a boss, leading a church, etc. and seeing what they do. For many women raised in fundamentalist Christianity, they’re taught from a young age that they must accept certain roles. Of course many would seem happy. It’s not like they’ve given any thought to the alternatives.

Even the feminist women, deep down, they’re like, “Please rule over me! Please be my leader!”

Citation needed.

This is how toxic Christian masculinity works. Might is right, and the Bible must always be interpreted to give men the upper hand. Strong women? Women who want to be in positions of leadership and are fully capable of it? They’re cast aside as heretics. Just ask Hillary Clinton and the pastors who refuse to vote for her because of her gender.

[tblue37]

1. ". . . it’s worked out great for a lot of people."--Yeah it's worked great for a lot of men. nt

[Warpy]

2. Now I know why I've spent most of my life living with a cat

[Buckeye_Democrat]

4. Many men

... aren't like this guy or his followers.

[Warpy]

6. I know but they're all charm and hearts and flowers

at first. It takes a lot of close attention to tell the hard core misogynists from the rest. Very young women, especially, just don't have the life experience to do that and think the guys who go to church every Sunday are the nice ones.

I always knew I'd have a better chance of finding a good one among the shirkers who slept to noon on Sunday.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

8. That might be true most of the time.

I'd be wary of the church-goers who use it to judge others harshly instead of a reinforcement for them to love others.

I'm agnostic, but I've met some good church people.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

3. Yup, this is the stuff

the keeps a lot of people from voting for Hillary.

It's kind of funny how this pastor guy doesn't get how a relationship would work where one person isn't subservient to the other person. He acts like the only kind of relationships possible are ones where there is a clear chain of command.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

5. Reminder

The recent FOX News poll that put Clinton ahead of Trump by 10% also indicated that white evangelical Christians favor Trump by 69% to 19%.

[LWolf]

7. This type of ignorance is really frustrating

in the workplace. I am female. On my particular "team" of co-workers, I am the oldest. I have the most education. I have the most years experience. I have the most diverse experience. I have the most seniority at our school site. Yet, the man who came in 5 years behind me, after a year of getting up to speed, stepped in without a word and anointed himself "team leader." Our new boss eagerly agreed. That "leader" comes from a fairly strict Christian background. He's not stupid. He's a caring person. Yet, he's been conditioned to consider females as second to males, always. The stories he tells about his wife, lovingly talking about her as a beautiful, empty headed fool that couldn't do anything right on her own...if she hadn't been indoctrinated to accept that role herself, one day she might clock him with a frying pan.

For me? I have to fight for my voice to be heard, so I am considered by my team (all men) to be aggressive and unfeminine. They will talk over me, interrupt me, and basically ignore me when I don't literally stand up and demand an equal voice. Then they patronize me.

We are teachers. The good news? Our newest principal has recognized this and stepped in to help turn it around.

[Saviolo]

9. Your experience reminds me of this satirical piece:

http://thecooperreview.com/non-threatening-leadership-strategies-for-women/

That is maybe just a little too real to be funny?

[LWolf]

11. Ouch.

A "little too real," to be sure.

I myself have used all those suggestions except for the mustache, and seeing them illustrated makes me angry about them all over again. Or embarrassed. Or ashamed of having lowered myself to do so. Or all three.

Yet, I'm also wondering what would happen if, at the right moment, I were to pull out my nose glasses, which have a mustache, put them on, and repeat myself. Would they get it? Would I have to explain it?

I have them in my classroom, along with a variety of other props I often use to make sure I've got students' attention, or end a session of hard thinking with a laugh, or for writing prompts, or props for improv demonstrations and performances.

[Saviolo]

17. You certainly shouldn't feel embarrassed or ashamed

Sadly, in many workplaces, it's a survival strategy.

Angry is more than justified, though.

[Warpy]

10. Hope springs eternal and her perimenopause approaches

and he might get clocked with that frying pan sooner than you think, especially if he decides yearly childbrith has her looking a little shopworn and decides to get a younger model.

While I waited for that to happen, I'd probably be in the business of giving him enough rope to hang himself with.

[LWolf]

13. lol

I recognize that it's not the best of me that enjoys that visualization.

Of course, she's a decade younger than he is; will he want to lower the bar further?

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

20. Wow, I'm sorry that you have to work in that environment.

I work in IT and I don't feel like I am treated any different than my male coworkers. IT people seem to value knowledge and skills above anything else. They don't seem to care about what you look like, gender, etc... any of that social stuff. Teaching is much more social. My husband works in the teaching field. They seem to be much more political and weird to each other like that. No politics where I work. We're too engrossed in the technical details of some program to be able to think about anything else. I guess that is the good thing about working with a bunch of people that probably have Aspergers... they couldn't careless about your gender.

[LWolf]

21. I think it's because

I'm the only female with a bunch of good 'ol boys and misogynistic Christians, myself. It reflects the demographics of the community.

[HughBeaumont]

12. "people have been doing it my way for the last 6,000 years" aaand I stopped reading.

Holy shit. Edumucatin' and fanseh shmanseh buuk lernin's hard 'r sumpin.

[Rex]

15. Thinking is hard, better let a book (or two) tell you all the things you need to know.

That way when a random thought enters your head, you can beat it to death with that book. However, don't get all brainy and get caught reading other books! Just that book. Okay, maybe that other book sometimes, but only sometimes when you need a quote and it is from that other book.

Remember, just sometimes. Okay, you are ready for life just remember it has a 6000 year head start! So go easy at first.

[Saviolo]

19. Yeah!

All 6000 years that the Earth has existed with people on it! Those 6000 years! Woo!

Nothing has ever changed in 6000 years! It's all the same! We just do everything exactly the same as we have for 6000 years and we'll all be fine!

[Rex]

14. How do you debate someone so mentally lost in the real world?

He seems to have no hope of ever becoming a modern person, how do you get through to someone like him? You don't - their mind is closed off to new ideas. Different concepts are always viewed as a threat, always. The fact that random reality decides and not some invisible sky daddy looking down on us - is a threat. The fact we could all have no real purpose and life is just an endless cycle of evolution scares the piss out of people like Anderson.

They want something there to blame and praise when needed, making your own purpose in life fucks with their basic understanding of reality.

[Saviolo]

16. Send a nice dainty-looking lady to his church

And when he asks to arm-wrestle, she just goes up and destroys him at it. Like, 2 seconds down, not even a pause.

[Rex]

18. I dunno, he might have a psychotic episode after that. Not right then and there of course.

She might kick his ass, but later when alone at home with the puppy. These guys are ticking bombs. I think the best way to deal with people like him, is to squint real hard like looking through a real dirty window and then randomly saying WHAT real loud and often. Then make a face like someone let out a stinky fart and pretend you are about to throw up and walk away (back away).

If enough people do that, it might jar loose a brain cell that didn't get killed in the Rapture.