General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI had a fascinating discussion yesterday with a patient who knows Trump personally...
This fellow was involved in business dealings, specifically, the machinations surrounding one of Trumps bankruptcy bailouts. I've known this gentleman for over 30 years, he is a no-nonsense, standard issue big-shot banker/businessman here in Philadelphia with many business ties to Atlantic City.
He said, and I'm barely paraphrasing, that Trump is a functional illiterate: that he has trouble reading and processing from what he's read. He also says that Trump lies continuously about everything and the bankers realized that nothing he said was true, that he exaggerated everything about himself including financial statements and his fiscal behavioral intents. His lying is continuous and encompasses all subjects no matter how trivial. He's a "low IQ serial prevaricator".
My patient is an old-fashioned Republican who would no more vote for a Democrat than he would take a leak in the middle of Market Street. That being said, he stated to me that in his opinion Trump has no business being considered for any job whatsoever, much less to be on the ticket for the Presidency. He is disgusted and appalled. If you lose a guy like this, then you've lost everything as a Republican.
yardwork
(61,622 posts)blueseas
(11,575 posts)The Republicans wanted Trump.
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(15,575 posts)Tea Party Republicans do. Most moderate Republicans have been in hiding for the last 8 years or so..........
get the red out
(13,466 posts)To the Tea Party, lost big-time.
Donald Trump makes W look intelligent.
Scarsdale
(9,426 posts)Not exactly. It is painful to watch either of them read from notes. Both have very high opinions of themselves. Dubya is still convinced he actually WON the office fair and square. Let's hope the same doors are not opened for the big orange yam. Was his wife shipped back to Slovenia? I read that her parents stay at Trump Tower. How did her father get a visa, since he was very active in the Communist party in his town?
Chiyo-chichi
(3,580 posts)Melania's parents are on the same secret floor in Trump Tower with Meredith McIver and the guy who does Don the Con's microcylinder hair attachments?
Whiskeytide
(4,461 posts)Chiyo-chichi
(3,580 posts)renate
(13,776 posts)Pretending to be John Miller or John Barron wasn't just a lie--it was an eight-year-old's lie. It says so much about his mindset that pretending to be someone else seemed like the best way to interact with others.
Whiskeytide
(4,461 posts)yardwork
(61,622 posts)This is important to remember.
Russian investors are very active in NYC real estate. Also important to remember.
A former director of the CIA thinks that Donald Trump is an unwitting agent of the Russian Federation.
What a way to win the Cold War. Just saying.
Hamlette
(15,412 posts)I am at a loss for the name, but I read a book 20 years ago about retribution in Eastern Europe against communists when the Iron curtain fell. While some of it was deserved, much of it was not. The part of the book I remember best was the stuff about the Czech Republic where some people joined the communist party because it was the only way to get hired for any type of job. Emotions ran high and some innocent people were unfairly punished.
If I had a family to feed and the only way I could work was if I joined the party, I'd join.
I don't know about her father but it was a different time. And I'm not a knee jerk anti-communist. Maybe he's a good guy whose daughter turned into a gold digger. For whatever reason.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,191 posts)55% chose "anyone but Trump". Now, don't get me wrong. I would rather Clinton be running against Trump than Kasich or Cruz. But despite tens of millions of dollars worth of free publicity from the MSM and Cruz dropping out of the last few races, Trump still only got 45% of the primary vote.
REP
(21,691 posts)The RNC thought no one would take him seriously, so they didn't, figuring the nomination was Bush's. When the small yet highly motivated and simultaneously easily manipulated primary voter pool was captivated by the bright orange object that had appeared so often in their living room TVs he felt like someone they knew, the RNC was caught off their game. So while Republican voters may have made him their King, the RNC most certainly did not. They bungled it badly - not that there was a "good" play; all of their candidates were a race to the bottom of repulsiveness and the bland bucket of nothingness called Jeb! was their best bet.
DLevine
(1,788 posts)C_U_L8R
(45,002 posts)I mean you gotta suspend a truckload of disbelief to be on the Trump train.
All that dissonance will eventually break through to any reasonable person.
But then we're not dealing with a lot of reasonable people. It's not enough
just to bash Trump, we've gotta win them over.
florida08
(4,106 posts)Seems like he validates everything we already believe. Trump reminds me of the Pied Piper- the rats that are following him are going right to their demise..and so is he.
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)He would secretly bring the rats to a town and then charge to get rid of them. Then off to the next town.
tblue37
(65,377 posts)Yes that is what republicans do alright
avebury
(10,952 posts)mucifer
(23,545 posts)go to vote for senate and house?
the kochs are putting a lot of money into the other races. But, if people are really angry about trump maybe they won't bother to vote.
Crash2Parties
(6,017 posts)Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)mentally disturbed, seriously mentally challenged or both.
SheriffBob
(552 posts)they are world class haters just like isis.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)depraved because they agree with Trumps bigotry and racism, and/or depraved because they think riling up bigotry and fear in voters is a useful tactic to stay in power in their endless pursuit of more and more money and power?
Lucky Luciano
(11,257 posts)IronLionZion
(45,447 posts)None of them believe they will suffer. And when they do, they'll just blame immigrants and people who look like immigrants anyway.
PatSeg
(47,468 posts)"functional illiterates" like Trump himself. I look at the faces of the people sitting behind Trump at his rallies and many of them could be our neighbors or co-workers, very average middle class Americans. What on earth is going on in their minds? They really don't look that stupid.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)With verbal instructions she is just fine. But if I leave her a note it's like she only gets half of what I am saying.
She's otherwise a great employee so I give her a pass on that, but she needs closer supervision than most since she obvious hasn't spent much time with the employee manual, such as it is in its partly developed stage.
Functional illiteracy is extremely common in the US from what I hear. Remember, the average American has an IQ of only 100.
PatSeg
(47,468 posts)I do remember having employees like that. They often were very enthusiastic and loyal, but had problems with written instructions and/or math. Sometimes they would try to disguise the fact, but it could make things worse as they might not ask for help.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)a huge clue. She will listen to our favorite novel series on audiobooks but won't read them.
The clues are there. And the ADHD doesn't help at all.
PatSeg
(47,468 posts)listens to books. That does take a certain amount of concentration and retention. Though personally, if I don't read something, it is less likely to "stick", more like it just flows through the brain and exits.
Big_K
(237 posts)It's set up to be that way. But whatever IQ measures, you could probably still have an IQ above average and be functionally illiterate due to lack of schooling, training, etc. I'm more concerned with judgement. That's what Drumpf and his followers lack.
Whatthe_Firetruck
(557 posts)...have a below average intelligence.
The more you know...
FighttheFuture
(1,313 posts)Last edited Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:11 PM - Edit history (1)
usual. They may not know who, or why, or even how but they know they are being fucked and politicians who look like part of the system have no appeal for them as they are perceived to be a big part of the problem. There may not be enough of these people for Trump to win (I hope there isn't), but the conditions that allowed Trump to rise are not going away and Democrats would be wise to really listen and take them to heart.
PatSeg
(47,468 posts)Trump is a symptom of a condition. Without that discontent, there would be no Candidate Trump.
CanadaexPat
(496 posts)they're voting against everyone else. I don't think there are enough of them to give Trump the WH, but if something were to happen between now and Election Day - a terrorist attack, economic crisis - there could be.
Cracklin Charlie
(12,904 posts)After reading his ghostwriter' article, I got the strongest feeling that Trump couldn't read.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)I've read that the typical person who basically stops reading after leaving school loses about 5 years of reading level. So, for a person who never read more than necessary and graduated high school reading at a 10th grade level, after a very few years reading would be approximately at a 5th grade level.
Of course the many, many millions functioning at that level are not going to be reading even newspapers for information, much less articles from The Atlantic or the New Yorker, far less more scholarly pieces. And almost all information is available only in print.
People meeting and interviewing Trump have commented on how much he watches TV. What happens on that screen is what matters to him.
Thanks for the post, PCIntern. I'm afraid it sounds all too credible.
He does seem capable of reading anything that is 40 characters or less!
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Just wondering... But, yes.
PatSeg
(47,468 posts)I have to say, I've never understood the appeal of Twitter, but I can see how someone of Trump's intellect could get off on it.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Has to be a factor. I'm far too addicted to run-on sentences for Twitter to appeal.
PatSeg
(47,468 posts)but I suppose if I had Donald Trump's vocabulary, Twitter might be perfect.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)his silly little tappings as powerful "hits," slamming his targets until "their heads spin."
Bet 140 characters is muscle memory to Elizabeth Warren by now, as in "whoops, too long."
Noticed this morning that the Atlantic has a new article speculating that Trump's campaign may be locking him out of Twitter.
Most juicily, the Android phoneoh, lets just call it Trumpis much, much angrier. By Robinsons calculations, it uses 40-80 percent more negative words in tweets than the iPhone, including Trump mainstays like badly, crazy, and weak. Tweets from that device frequently evoke sadness, fear, anger, and disgust, according to Robinsons language processing, while the iPhone is more likely to express anticipation, trust and joy.
Plus, the iPhone tweets out event times. Thats a staffer job. Cmon.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/08/donald-trump-twitter-iphone-android/495239/
PatSeg
(47,468 posts)Trump uses. Can't remember the statistics now, but the vast majority of the words were one syllable, followed by two syllable words. The only three syllable word that showed up frequently was "Mexico"! If he wasn't a big bully billionaire, I'd almost feel sorry for him.
Interesting about the phones. I can't even imagine what being a Trump staffer must be like. I'll be there is a lot of heavy drinking going on.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)pay grade anyway and, yes, not happy campers.
PatSeg
(47,468 posts)who exactly DID turn off the elevator when Trump was in it?
<A Civilian of the Year fire marshal shamed by the GOP nominee for not packing more people into his July 29 rally detailed what really happened during the elevator fiasco when Trump found himself stuck for about 15 minutes inside a Mining Exchange Hotel lift.
It was funny, Brett Lacey told a friend the following Monday in an email obtained by KMGH-TV. Turns out someone (Secret Service or his entourage) had an elevator bypass key.
The mysterious keymaster then flipped the switched, powering down the elevator and stranding 10 of its passengers including the New York billionaire between the first and second floor before the campaign event, Lacey wrote.>
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/colo-firefighters-fished-donald-trump-elevator-article-1.2745305
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)You know, a few times during this campaign I've seriously wondered if he was sabotaged by people who really don't like him and really don't like his message.
In this case the hotel has certainly maintenance keys, or someone may just have had a fireman's key and grabbed the opportunity to put it to use.
PatSeg
(47,468 posts)the only people in the elevator were Trump's people and the Secret Service.
Trump has such a nasty disposition, I can imagine him treating someone very poorly and that person retaliating. Watching Trump losing it must have been delicious.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)who don't like him. One report says a bypass key was used to turn the elevator off and apparently whoever did it didn't know how to turn it back on. Someone on his staff may be walking around with one, and of course the SS has them...
PatSeg
(47,468 posts)who actually KNOWS Trump that likes him. Maybe his children, but I even have doubts about them.
The Secret Service has to protect the candidate, but that doesn't mean they have to like him. The only person in that elevator who didn't have reason to stop it was probably Trump, though I wouldn't put it past him to do anything for publicity.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)At least we can probably rule Trump out.
PatSeg
(47,468 posts)We can always hope that some day in the not too distant future the culprit will confess and receive the accolades that he/she deserves.
I'm really looking forward to the campaign memoirs! From members of that crowd probably not overloaded with truth and ethics, but still...
PatSeg
(47,468 posts)I have to catch up on all my reading, so I'll have room for the post-election books. Maybe some HBO movies as well.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)In Trump We Trust: E Pluribus Awesome!, but not nearly enough insider memoir and I'm guessing no truth at all.
But no doubt some good stuff being tapped out right now.
PatSeg
(47,468 posts)No one is paying any attention to these days and probably not buying her books either. She's probably beating her head against the wall, "How friggin' crazy do I have to be to get some air time????"
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)to make it look like it's selling well? And how many days before her scam is reported to the world?
Hadn't thought about her mounting problems, but of course! Trump's been sucking all the air out of the "crazy-sells" market.
I heard someone comment about how it was only conservative books about the election that are showing up in the best seller lists, but that is because of the scam that they use over and over again, buying the books themselves to push the title up. I was waiting for someone to point that out, but you know they didn't.
Big_K
(237 posts)Could have been a "Hey, what does this button do?"
Or, as it's known in the south, "Hold my beer and watch this."
malthaussen
(17,199 posts)... his attention span. Twitter is the kingdom of the one-liner, and that is about the depth of Mr Trump's understanding. The only thing he is persistent in is self-aggrandizement and vindictiveness.
-- Mal
PatSeg
(47,468 posts)have a longer attention span than Donald Trump. He behaves like a hyperactive toddler.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)more coming for a very long time. What could be more wonderful than a pair of hyperactive toddlers who can be sent home with their parents?
PatSeg
(47,468 posts)I tend to get the best parts. Also I am at an age where a lot of things don't bother me anymore. How much time and energy we wasted as parents worrying over inconsequential things. I don't particularly care if they make a mess at my house and the tiny little fingerprints all over everything is rather sweet. Reminds me that they were there.
Are your's twins as well?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)in common until they married and had first babies 3 weeks apart and then another pair 3 months apart. And after the children visit I leave their toys out as "decoration."
PatSeg
(47,468 posts)How nice to have children the same age, makes for a much closer family.
My place looks like a daycare now. My latest obsession is buying them animal figurines, which actually looked very nice displayed on the furniture before they knock them all on the floor!
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)those nice animal figurines bought over time on outings. They were once found everywhere in the house and car but finally mostly stay there as passions have moved on, but I figure they have sentimental value. They used to have various favorites they went to sleep with.
PatSeg
(47,468 posts)shows on TV and we pull the different animals out whenever they are on screen. They are getting really good at identifying a wide range of animals and insects.
Most of these figurines are really nice quality so they will make nice decorative pieces later or we can build zoos or farms for them.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and nature oriented. It'll be very interesting to see what they all end up doing. I just want them to have great interests to build their work lives around.
PatSeg
(47,468 posts)I let them play with my old digital cameras, they love to push buttons and they actually end of taking some pics in the process. Their daddy is very science and technology oriented, so they'll get a lot of exposure to that, as well as art and woodworking. Mommy loves cooking and photography, so they imitate her as well.
It is so nice if they can be exposed to many things at a young age, so they explore a lot of interests - no shortage of that around here.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and tech oriented. So many wonderful things to do, but enthusiasm has to come from inside. One family has all the money needed for as much education as desired, the other will benefit from plans for making college once again affordable, not considering scholarships. We have about 8 years for that door to wonderful opportunities to be thrown wide open.
Motley13
(3,867 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)him by also. His disorder only allows him to care about what he relates to as somehow being about him, that will make people admire him.
He was in Scotland during Brexit and didn't pay enough attention to realize Scotland voted to stay -- much less clue to the fact that this created an enormous crisis for the UK. It's very likely that, at age 70, he doesn't actually know what the UK is.
(And this is for all those who voted for this dysfunctional buffoon.)
PatSeg
(47,468 posts)A lot of republicans evidently thought the show "24" was a documentary about terrorists. Even Dick Cheney used reference the program.
I think Trump mixes up the news programs with the entertainment ones.
RobinA
(9,893 posts)if ghost writers and banksters everywhere know this much about Trump, how does he for so many years continue to borrow millions? I realize he inherited money and property, but you don't build casinos and towers on prime Manhattan real estate with your own money. How does a supposedly deranged, supposedly illiterate, individual get so successful when Joe Average can be subjected to a financial background check just to get hired for a job? To me that's the larger question.
padfun
(1,786 posts)And who knows what he really owes them. He wont release his tax returns and they might show what he writes off on those loans.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)of times until his death when The Donald was in his 50s, less than 20 years ago. Then he presumably left him a bunch more money that has helped carry him forward.
As for borrowing, The Donald's reportedly blackballed by all major American banks. Don't know when this happened, but presumably after his father's death.
exboyfil
(17,863 posts)You can hold onto the coat tails of your name for a very long time. I would like to get a tell all confessional from a professor at an Ivy League university that would observe the differences between the meritocracy middle class students versus the legacy scions. I wonder how many scions go into objectively graded majors like math, science, and engineering.
uponit7771
(90,344 posts)... then borrow from it and bankrupt that company with fees and other bullshit.
He's basically did a short version of it with his primary campaign funds
Getting business credit is as easy as getting matured authorized user so a person with virtually ZERO dollars can get 100,000's of thousands WITH NO BUSINESS PLAN if they have decent personal credit
Don has prolly 10 - 20 stick companies he can prop with liquid cash and borrow from it and then bankrupt it later...
The BIG money ( 500 to a billion) doesn't come from him it comes from people who want to use his name and he's usually a small equity partner.
Now...
His brand is fucked, HRC can FURTHER kill that brand with this election and make his name mud but him and his kids have made enough money and net worth they don't have to give a shit.
MADem
(135,425 posts)That's been the case for years, now. And.....
Trump Has a Conflict-of-Interest Problem No Other White House Candidate Ever Had
He owes at least $100 million to a foreign bank that's battled with US regulators.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/trump-german-loan-deutsche-bank
Loki
(3,825 posts)that the base of their party is this functionally illiterate, racist, misogynistic, xenophobic group they have cultivated and encouraged for years. They cannot win without them, they are them, but now this ugliness has finally given birth to the monster they created.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)immoderate
(20,885 posts)It's the Dunning-Kruger effect.
--imm
The Wizard
(12,545 posts)Just really stupid bigots who love lying and being lied to. The cognitive dissonance, it burns.
Nitram
(22,803 posts)liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)He is also proof that the many (not all) republicans would vote for a turd if they put it on stage.
superpatriotman
(6,249 posts)In other words a republican
uponit7771
(90,344 posts)Dr Rise
(99 posts)Chemisse
(30,813 posts)PatSeg
(47,468 posts)reading that economic speech the other day. It was painful to watch him struggling with it.
Chemisse
(30,813 posts)When he actually he is just a dumb guy with a bundle of bluster.
uponit7771
(90,344 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,047 posts)I am not a doctor but know older adults that I've worked with over the years who are around his age and who were diagnosed in later years because there really wasn't a "name" for it back in the '40s and '50s when they were children. He seems to perfectly fit the criteria, but his family's wealth was able to cover for him (his bio indicates his father had to send him to a military academy after his "behavior problems").
Ilsa
(61,695 posts)his disorders, but definitely worth pointing out. I think you're correct. I view the narcissism to be the one trait that would keep him from taking sage advice from people who know what they are talking about.
niyad
(113,318 posts)age who were either diagnosed in later years, or whom I know personally, who are very much like him.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)I think all he's done the past few months is tip others off to his functional illiteracy and attract a bunch of functionally illiterate, racist white wingers. We just gotta hope there are less of them than it appears.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)party, literate and otherwise. Trump's true supporters are only a minority of conservatives, but a passionate one that has reportedly developed a combative "us versus them" mentality that is very dangerous for the party. Bless their hearts...
raven mad
(4,940 posts)Republicans didn't become "bad" until Watergate and subsequent crap. And then add the "Religious Right"??? (I agree with Mahatma Ghandi, "I like your Christ".
Most of my uncles were "old school" Republicans (the ones I respect). They would quit, and have.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)His vocabulary consists of about 30 words and it was downright painful to watch him struggle to read from a teleprompter.
It explains why the idiots connect with him.
underpants
(182,818 posts)He probably think it makes him look weak somehow.
I noticed this months ago at a CNN town hall. He had papers in his hand and from the back camera angle you could see the really large print. Having worked with people with low vision I recognized as the markings of a 20/20 pen - like a sharpie but it doesn't bleed through the paper.
Just an observation.
packman
(16,296 posts)He wears his disability like an armor , scowl and jutting chin. If he did hit his second grade teacher , that action suggests frustration with learning - parents shipped him off to military school because of his behavior probably stemming from his reading/learning disability. Also explains his aversion to teleprompters.
Cosmocat
(14,564 posts)I never met the jackass and know all of that.
THIS is how out and stupid this country is.
bluedye33139
(1,474 posts)He is an accountant and Fortune 500 exec. He was shocked when Bush pushed for deficit spending on his first week in the White House. I didn't even have to remind him of the reagan-bush years, the hugest explosion in government spending in human history.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,715 posts)So, this is the power behind capitalistic ventures.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,854 posts)... he's got the attention span of a small child.
Seeing Trump struggling to read the teleprompters the other day was supporting evidence as well.
Lifelong Protester
(8,421 posts)didn't really help him?
Akicita
(1,196 posts)ailsagirl
(22,897 posts)This really made the pieces fall into place for me.
Trump is a functional illiterate: that he has trouble reading and processing from what he's read. He also says that Trump lies continuously about everything and the bankers realized that nothing he said was true, that he exaggerated everything about himself including financial statements and his fiscal behavioral intents. His lying is continuous and encompasses all subjects no matter how trivial. He's a "low IQ serial prevaricator."
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)In reality it seems the rich are the ones who's VCRs used to flash "12:00".
The actual question is, "If you're so rich why aren't you smart?"
ancianita
(36,058 posts)Last edited Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:47 PM - Edit history (1)
Repubs have a viable party if their own members won't stand up with their leaders for the best of their group's historical values and actions?
I don't see why their need to exist trumps the quality of their group's existence, or why any political party is better than no party.
PCIntern
(25,550 posts)Gutless.
Gothmog
(145,278 posts)elleng
(130,918 posts)rivegauche
(601 posts)I'm a native New Yorker (since moved to the west) and I've known about Trump and his lying, devious, ignorant ways my entire life. It was hard to convince some of my friends here out west what a massive asshole he was at first. Then as the campaign unfolded and all his outrageous behavior was clear, they got it.
I CANNOT WAIT UNTIL THE DEBATES. She will eviscerate him and it will feel so goddamned good.
ReformedGOPer
(478 posts)is that the Trumpsters don't believe the polls. They really believe that the polls are manipulated. Just like when Romney lost. His followers are really the poorly educated.
63splitwindow
(2,657 posts)of a potential lawsuit (truth is total defense but must still be defended) from the litigator in chief.
Miigwech
(3,741 posts)Trump is hated by many NY'ers. He will not carry the State, Hillary will win it.
Beartracks
(12,814 posts)He's only running as a Republican because that's where all the suckers are. Ignorant, angry, manipulable suckers. I feel sorry for your acquaintance, as his Party has left him.
================================
EllaJones
(20 posts)I am just thinking that if he has such disabilities why on the earth he is nominated for presidency.