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cali

(114,904 posts)
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 02:33 PM Aug 2016

The New Yorker: Does Henry Kissinger Have a Conscience?



<snip>

In the run-up to Obama’s trip, Susan Rice, the President’s national-security adviser, had announced the Administration’s intention to declassify thousands of U.S. military and intelligence documents pertaining to that tumultuous period in Argentina. It was a good-will gesture aimed at signalling Obama’s ongoing effort to change the dynamic of U.S. relations with Latin America—“to bury the last remnant of the Cold War,” as he said in Havana, during that same trip.

Last week, the first tranche of those declassified documents was released. The documents revealed that White House and U.S. State Department officials were intimately aware of the Argentine military’s bloody nature, and that some were horrified by what they knew. Others, most notably Henry Kissinger, were not. In a 1978 cable, the U.S. Ambassador, Raúl Castro, wrote about a visit by Kissinger to Buenos Aires, where he was a guest of the dictator, Jorge Rafael Videla, while the country hosted the World Cup. “My only concern is that Kissinger’s repeated high praise for Argentina’s action in wiping out terrorism may have gone to some considerable extent to his hosts’ heads,” Castro wrote. The Ambassador went on to write, fretfully, “There is some danger that Argentines may use Kissinger’s laudatory statements as justification for hardening their human rights stance.”

The latest revelations compound a portrait of Kissinger as the ruthless cheerleader, if not the active co-conspirator, of Latin American military regimes engaged in war crimes. In evidence that emerged from previous declassifications of documents during the Clinton Administration, Kissinger was shown not only to have been aware of what the military was doing but to have actively encouraged it. Two days after the Argentine coup, Kissinger was briefed by his Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs, William Rogers, who warned him, “I think also we’ve got to expect a fair amount of repression, probably a good deal of blood, in Argentina before too long. I think they’re going to have to come down very hard not only on the terrorists but on the dissidents of trade unions and their parties.” Kissinger replied, “Whatever chance they have, they will need a little encouragement . . . because I do want to encourage them. I don’t want to give the sense that they’re harassed by the United States.”

Under Kissinger’s direction, they certainly were not harassed. Right after the coup, Kissinger sent his encouragement to the generals and reinforced that message by expediting a package of U.S. security assistance. In a meeting with the Argentine foreign minister two months later, Kissinger advised him winkingly, according to a memo written about the conversation, “We are aware you are in a difficult period. It is a curious time, when political, criminal, and terrorist activities tend to merge without any clear separation. We understand you must establish authority. . . . If there are things that have to be done, you should do them quickly.”

<snip>

We have repeatedly reviewed evidence of Kissinger’s callousness. Some of it is as inexplicable as it is shocking. There is a macho swagger in some of Kissinger’s remarks. It could, perhaps, be explained away if he had never wielded power, like—thus far—the gratuitously offensive Presidential candidate Donald Trump. And one has an awareness that Kissinger, the longest-lasting and most iconic pariah figure in modern American history, is but one of a line of men held in fear and contempt for the immorality of their services rendered and yet protected by the political establishment in recognition of those same services. William Tecumseh Sherman, Curtis LeMay, Robert McNamara, and, more recently, Donald Rumsfeld all come to mind.

<snip>

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/does-henry-kissinger-have-a-conscience?intcid=mod-latest
47 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The New Yorker: Does Henry Kissinger Have a Conscience? (Original Post) cali Aug 2016 OP
Recommended. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #1
He is a war criminal. I don't care how supposedly brilliant he is. He is a war criminal cali Aug 2016 #2
Kissinger has zero conscience. roamer65 Aug 2016 #3
Does a bear shit awoke_in_2003 Aug 2016 #4
It's not pc in upper dem circles or amongst team blue can do no wrong types cali Aug 2016 #5
Got a link on that? Kingofalldems Aug 2016 #14
I think that it's obvious. And I don't feel like getting a hide cali Aug 2016 #15
So no factual evidence. Okay. Kingofalldems Aug 2016 #16
No. Not willing to risk a hide. cali Aug 2016 #17
Why are you trying to bash our nominee? You think you're clever by being indirect pnwmom Aug 2016 #18
You are reading way too much into it. cali Aug 2016 #20
You can criticize Kissinger as much as you want and I'd support that. pnwmom Aug 2016 #21
Sorry, fact is fact. He has been embraced and lauded cali Aug 2016 #25
I'll risk and no doubt recieve a hide That Guy 888 Aug 2016 #27
the real irony is that the pubs will not use this against her Gabi Hayes Aug 2016 #32
That's a weird quote about kissinger's policy toward military people. That Guy 888 Aug 2016 #34
i am surprised it has not been alerted dembotoz Aug 2016 #39
Multiple links downthread That Guy 888 Aug 2016 #30
'team blue' not mentioned in those links. Kingofalldems Aug 2016 #43
Post removed Post removed Aug 2016 #44
Did you know the rules when you joined? Kingofalldems Aug 2016 #45
I joined in 2002, I lurk more than I post That Guy 888 Aug 2016 #46
OK I am done. Do whatever the hell you want. Kingofalldems Aug 2016 #47
... tammywammy Aug 2016 #22
This is of course a rhetorical question thucythucy Aug 2016 #6
no. niyad Aug 2016 #7
Can't we just move on? G_j Aug 2016 #8
Will we ever repair the damage that was done by our country? surrealAmerican Aug 2016 #9
Best GUESS would be no. About 1 out of ever 25 or so Hortensis Aug 2016 #10
He is a wanted man shadowmayor Aug 2016 #11
Kissinger unleashed the beast in Nixon, nilesobek Aug 2016 #37
Kissinger and Nixon shadowmayor Aug 2016 #41
Sociopaths don't have a conscience. Odin2005 Aug 2016 #12
True that! burrowowl Aug 2016 #23
RECOMMENDED NT AikidoSoul Aug 2016 #13
K&R Solly Mack Aug 2016 #19
Hell no. JonLP24 Aug 2016 #24
unfortunately political realism is still taken seriously by many political office holders Vattel Aug 2016 #26
k and r bbgrunt Aug 2016 #28
only losers commit war crimes losing is a war crime rafeh1 Aug 2016 #29
read The Price of Power and The Trials of Henry Kissinger Gabi Hayes Aug 2016 #31
thank you, Gabi. cali Aug 2016 #38
any bets on how long this thread lasts when the son comes Up? Gabi Hayes Aug 2016 #33
It's from The New Yorker. It contains new information from newly released documents cali Aug 2016 #35
God, is he STILL alive? smirkymonkey Aug 2016 #36
I respect Fareed Zakaria True Dough Aug 2016 #40
At least 45 years too late to be asking that question SwankyXomb Aug 2016 #42

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
1. Recommended.
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 02:38 PM
Aug 2016

But some politicians from both parties still consider Kissinger to be a friend and a figure to admire.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
5. It's not pc in upper dem circles or amongst team blue can do no wrong types
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 03:36 PM
Aug 2016

to point out that he is as reprehensible and bloody handed a figure of 20th century American politics as can be thought of.

We'd rather not notice him.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
17. No. Not willing to risk a hide.
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 06:47 PM
Aug 2016

Let's just say it has something to do with him being embraced some in the highest eschelons of dem circles

pnwmom

(108,874 posts)
18. Why are you trying to bash our nominee? You think you're clever by being indirect
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 07:15 PM
Aug 2016

but your intentions are very clear.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
20. You are reading way too much into it.
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 07:26 PM
Aug 2016

I don't even mind that she accepted his endorsement. Refusing it just would have created drama. I don't care for her taking any advice from him.

pnwmom

(108,874 posts)
21. You can criticize Kissinger as much as you want and I'd support that.
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 07:37 PM
Aug 2016

What I don't support is your trying to hold "upper echelon" Democrats responsible for him.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
25. Sorry, fact is fact. He has been embraced and lauded
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 02:29 AM
Aug 2016

by quite a few upper eschelon dems. Yes, that does include HRC.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/02/hillary-clinton-kissinger-vacation-dominican-republic-de-la-renta

As I said, I understand the campaign accepting endorsement from certain unsavory republicans, rather than dealing with the distracting fuss rejecting one would create. But I won't pretend that Kissinger hasn't been embraced by some influential dems.

I tend to agree with this piece- which puts it in perspective:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/11/clinton-has-not-sought-kissinger-s-support-but-so-what-if-she-had.html

 

That Guy 888

(1,214 posts)
27. I'll risk and no doubt recieve a hide
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 03:04 AM
Aug 2016
Hillary Clinton and Henry Kissinger: It's Personal. Very Personal.
The Clintons and the Kissingers regularly spend holidays together at a beachfront villa.

-snip-

...Clinton defended her association with Kissinger by replying, "I listen to a wide variety of voices that have expertise in various areas." She cast her interactions with Kissinger as motivated by her desire to obtain any information that might be useful to craft policy. "People we may disagree with on a number of things may have some insight, may have some relationships that are important for the president to understand in order to best protect the United States," she said.

What Clinton did not mention was that her bond with Kissinger was personal as well as professional, as she and her husband have for years regularly spent their winter holidays with Kissinger and his wife, Nancy, at the beachfront villa of fashion designer Oscar de la Renta, who died in 2014, and his wife, Annette, in the Dominican Republic.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/02/hillary-clinton-kissinger-vacation-dominican-republic-de-la-renta

Hillary and Henry: Clinton's Relationship With Kissinger

The two former secretaries of state have been close for years, with Clinton calling him "a friend" and noting that she "relied on his counsel" when she was secretary of state from 2009 to 2013.

"He checked in with me regularly, sharing astute observations about foreign leaders and sending me written reports on his travels. Though we have often seen the world and some of our challenges quite differently, and advocated different responses now and in the past...." she wrote in a review of his book "World Order" that was published in the Washington Post in 2014.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hillary-henry-clintons-relationship-kissinger/story?id=39195203

Hillary Clinton’s Ties to Henry Kissinger Come Back to Haunt Her
When Hillary Clinton was secretary of state, she relied on Henry A. Kissinger’s counsel. He would send her “astute observations about foreign leaders” and “written reports on his travels.” She would joke with him that smartphones would have made his covert Cold War trip to Beijing impossible.

The two diplomats had a cordial, warm and respectful relationship, based on writings about their interactions during Mrs. Clinton’s tenure at the State Department.

“Kissinger is a friend, and I relied on his counsel when I served as secretary of state,” Mrs. Clinton wrote in The Washington Post, in a positive review of his book “World Order.”

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/02/12/hillary-clintons-ties-to-henry-kissinger-come-back-to-haunt-her/?_r=0

Henry Kissinger, Hillary Clinton’s Tutor in War and Peace
Last night, Clinton once again praised a man with a lot of blood on his hands.

A full tally hasn’t been done, but a back-of-the-envelope count would attribute 3, maybe 4 million deaths to Kissinger’s actions, but that number probably undercounts his victims in southern Africa. Pull but one string from the current tangle of today’s multiple foreign policy crises, and odds are it will lead back to something Kissinger did between 1968 and 1977. Over-reliance on Saudi oil? That’s Kissinger. Blowback from the instrumental use of radical Islam to destabilize Soviet allies? Again, Kissinger. An unstable arms race in the Middle East? Check, Kissinger. Sunni-Shia rivalry? Yup, Kissinger. The impasse in Israel-Palestine? Kissinger. Radicalization of Iran? “An act of folly” was how veteran diplomat George Ball described Kissinger’s relationship to the Shah. Militarization of the Persian Gulf? Kissinger, Kissinger, Kissinger.

And yet Clinton continues to call his name, hoping his light bathes her in wisdom.

Hillary Clinton’s progress as a public figure and politician can, in fact, be indexed perfectly by her relationship to Henry Kissinger. In 1970 as a law student at Yale before she met Bill, Hillary Rodham, in April and May was at the center of what she called “the Yale-Cambodia madness,” a series of protests that started around the “New Haven Nine” Black Panther trial but escalated when Nixon, on April 30, announced the invasion of Cambodia—an invasion Kissinger was instrumental in planning and executing. On May 1, the day after Nixon’s speech, “Vietcong flags filled the air; gas masks were distributed. Streaming banners and impromptu chants abounded: ‘Seize the Time!’ ‘End U.S. imperialism around the world!’”

Then in the early 1990s, Hillary Rodham Clinton would again be caught up in events related to Kissinger’s actions. Her husband, Bill Clinton, embraced Kissinger, which began Kissinger’s apotheosis into his current incarnation as a bipartisan elder statesman, invoked by politicians who want to appear “serious.”

https://www.thenation.com/article/henry-kissinger-hillary-clintons-tutor-in-war-and-peace/

I find it interesting that on DU we're apparently not supposed to know or discuss this. For the Dead-Enders... the only truly trustworthy source:

Sec. Kissinger, on Sec. Clinton: “She ran the State Department in the most effective way that I’ve ever seen.” According to USA Today, “Nearly 40 years since he left appointed office, Kissinger still can provoke controversy. Hillary Rodham Clinton, another former secretary of State, wrote a favorable review of his new book in Sunday’s Washington Post. ‘The World According to Henry Kissinger,’ it was titled, and an enormous photo of Kissinger’s face filled most of the page. ‘I’ve known her for many years now, and I respect her intellect,’ he says of Clinton. ‘And she ran the State Department in the most effective way that I’ve ever seen.’ More effectively than he did? ‘Yes,’ he says with a smile. ‘I was more chaotic.’” [USA Today, 9/9/14]

Sec. Kissinger: “I know Hillary as a person. And as a personal friend, I would say yes, she’d be a good president.” According to Sec. Kissinger’s interview with NPR’s Scott Simon, regarding whether Sec. Kissinger thought Sec. Clinton would be a good president, “I know Hillary as a person. And as a personal friend, I would say yes, she’d be a good president. But she’d put me under a great conflict of interest if she were a candidate, because I tend to support the Republicans… Yes, I’d be comfortable with her as the president.” [NPR, 9/8/14]

Sec. Kissinger: “She’d [Sec. Clinton would] put me under a great conflict of interest if she were a candidate, because I tend to support the Republicans… Yes, I’d be comfortable with her as the president.” According to Sec. Kissinger’s interview with NPR’s Scott Simon, regarding whether Sec. Kissinger thought Sec. Clinton would be a good president, “I know Hillary as a person. And as a personal friend, I would say yes, she’d be a good president. But she’d put me under a great conflict of interest if she were a candidate, because I tend to support the Republicans… Yes, I’d be comfortable with her as the president.” [NPR, 9/8/14]

“Republicans praised the prospect of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton Sunday. Former Nixon and Ford Secretary of State Henry Kissinger said Sunday that Clinton would be an ‘outstanding’ selection. ‘She is a lady of great intelligence, demonstrated enormous determination and would be an outstanding appointment,’ Kissinger told the World Economic Forum’s India Economic Summit in New Delhi, according to Bloomberg News.” [CNN.com, 11/16/08]

“I think of Hillary with admiration and affection. . . When I call Mrs. Clinton ‘Hillary,’ I do that not so much to indicate familiarity but to use a name that the whole world uses. It shows to what extent she has succeeded in her people-to-people work.” – Henry Kissinger, Former National Security Adviser and Secretary of State for President Nixon and President Ford [Washington Post, 5/3/13]

http://correctrecord.org/praise-for-hillary-clinton/
 

Gabi Hayes

(28,795 posts)
32. the real irony is that the pubs will not use this against her
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 05:32 AM
Aug 2016

Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL), chair of Donald Trump’s national security advisory committee, appeared on "Fox News Sunday" today to explain Trump's approach to foreign policy.

Sessions said that Trump's basic philosophy on national defense and foreign policy is similar to that of Henry Kissinger.

"It’s realism, it’s caution, it’s being more cautious about how we deploy our men and women in harm’s way, not to be involved in excessive efforts to alter, create democracies in countries that are not ready for it," Sessions explained to guest host John Roberts.


http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/05/22/jeff-sessions-likens-donald-trumps-foreign-policy-henry-kissingers-fox-news-sunday






 

That Guy 888

(1,214 posts)
34. That's a weird quote about kissinger's policy toward military people.
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 05:44 AM
Aug 2016

I thought his attitude was: “Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy.”

I can understand republicans praising kissinger, I really don't get it when Democratic politicians do.

Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #43)

 

That Guy 888

(1,214 posts)
46. I joined in 2002, I lurk more than I post
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 02:39 PM
Aug 2016

and I've voted Democratic in every election since I could vote. Does that make me a Party Member in good standing Commissar, or does the mere question stray too far off the acceptable path?

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
10. Best GUESS would be no. About 1 out of ever 25 or so
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 05:28 PM
Aug 2016

has no conscience, and a lot of them end up in positions that allow them power over others.

One psychologist explained that Trump might possibly having a vestigial conscience that would allow him worry about getting caught in wrongdoing but not developed enough to be capable of feeling guilt. So a primitive conscience would be another possibility for Kissinger.

Cali, IMO that's an extremely intolerant and unjustified slur on Democrats. We are all people of many facets, some admirable, some not, and nothing is black and white except to the cognitively challenged. Please understand it is possible to respect a person's brilliance and knowledge, and some actions, and at the same time despise, and even loathe, other attitudes and actions.

shadowmayor

(1,325 posts)
11. He is a wanted man
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 05:29 PM
Aug 2016

Henry cannot travel to many countries for fear of being apprehended and placed on trial. He and Nixon extended the Viet Nam war to ensure that Nixon got re-elected in 1972. Indonesia-East Timor, Argentina, Chile, Cambodia, Laos and many more have felt the sting of Kissinger's "real politik" bullshit. Why anybody would break bread with this man is hard to fathom.

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
37. Kissinger unleashed the beast in Nixon,
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 06:58 AM
Aug 2016

then had to contain him. He talked Nixon out of nuking N.Vietnam after Nixon consumed two bottles of brandy. But he caved on the stone age Nixon Christmas bombing campaign. Found some old Oliphant cartoons about Kissinger...hilarious stuff.

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
26. unfortunately political realism is still taken seriously by many political office holders
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 03:03 AM
Aug 2016

Kissinger is a murderer

rafeh1

(385 posts)
29. only losers commit war crimes losing is a war crime
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 03:48 AM
Aug 2016

"warcrimes are for losers
only losers commit war crimes
losing is a war crime

Ergo if you lose you are a war criminal
I didnt lose "

 

Gabi Hayes

(28,795 posts)
31. read The Price of Power and The Trials of Henry Kissinger
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 05:23 AM
Aug 2016

More than you'll ever need to know about one of the most despicable entities to ever draw breath.

Daniel Ellsberg's account is particularly revealing (in Hersh's book)

see the movie here:

https://m.

 

Gabi Hayes

(28,795 posts)
33. any bets on how long this thread lasts when the son comes Up?
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 05:36 AM
Aug 2016

better copy anything of value while it's still here

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
35. It's from The New Yorker. It contains new information from newly released documents
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 05:47 AM
Aug 2016

It adds to the record.

True Dough

(16,896 posts)
40. I respect Fareed Zakaria
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 08:08 AM
Aug 2016

but I am always mystified when he has Kissinger on his show and appears to openly revere the man, treats him with deference at least. He seems to be the antithesis of so much of what Zakaria editorializes on. I don't understand the "bromance."

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