This Is Everything That’s Wrong With Caregiving In America Today

[sheshe2]

The National Academies of Science, Engineering, and Medicine just published a very sobering look at the state of family caregiving in the U.S. Here are some of the things the group found.

1. Washington needs to get real already.

Public policy lags woefully behind today’s reality. There are nearly 18 million people caring for a relative who is 65 or older and yeah, they pretty much all need help. The report said caregivers aren’t being supported, are cracking under the strain, and therefore it behooves the next administration to actually deal with the problem. We’d add that perhaps the two main party presidential candidates would like to elaborate on what they intend to do for the the nation’s family caregivers ― in total there are 34 million of them ― whose unpaid services are worth about $500 billion a year, according to the Rand Corp.

The Academies’ report found that people caring for elderly family members devote 253 hours a month to caregiving — almost the equivalent of two full-time jobs. Five years is the median duration that family members care for older adults with high needs and that’s one heck of a long time to live in purgatory.

Plus those who do step up and take on the responsibility get financially dinged as a thank-you. Caregivers miss work, don’t apply or accept advanced jobs because of the time commitment, and some just drop out of the workforce altogether to care for their loved one. The report says that lost wages and benefits average $303,880 over the lifetimes of people 50 and older who stop working to care for a parent. Plus for added insult to that injury, a lower earnings history also means reduced Social Security payments for caregivers when they become eligible.


snip//

4. Caregiving can actually kill you.

Family caregivers were found to have lower physical well-being, higher stress levels, higher rates of chronic disease, and greater risk for depression, social isolation and financial losses than their non-caregiving counterparts, notes the report. It’s called “Caregiver Syndrome” and a Stanford University study reported that 40 percent of Alzheimer’s caregivers die from stress-related disorders before their patient dies.


Please Read:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/this-is-everything-thats-wrong-with-caregiving-in-america-today_us_57e2e78ce4b0e80b1b9fff6e?section=&y become eligible.

This is exactly where I am at right now. Many of us have been here, more of us will be.

[Hoyt]

1. +100000. It is extremely debilitating, depressing, and difficult. Unfortunately, our Congress will

do little. When it gets bad enough where a facility is the only real choice, Medicare provides very little coverage and what Medicaid covers is quite shoddy, although I applaud those healthcare professionals who do their best.

[sheshe2]

2. Yup.

I know you are right, Hoyt. Sad isn't it.

Thanks for reading.

[Hortensis]

61. This is a hugely important topic. Both my aunt,

who lived to 103, and my MIL who didn't, were each invited to come live with us when they became infirm, but each declined with the single reason that they wanted to stay close to friends.

I offered with my eyes open, just accepting whatever would come with it over the years, but I have a far better idea now just what a bullet they saved me from, and believe they knew it.

We've seen what so often happens to others who gave up incomes and freedom, especially female relatives. No matter how giving the hearts, and even with supportive relatives who can help somewhat, lives are blighted, sometimes permanently, in what often amounts to a form of domestic slavery.

Yet another good reason to vote for Hillary. Unlike most politicians, this issue is important to her.

[Ohiogal]

79. At least Hillary was aware of the issue and had something in mind to deal with it.

I doubt the Idiot thinks about anything besides 1. Himself, and 2. How to make money

[Hortensis]

84. I don't think he CAN, Ohiogal. Some important parts aren't working.

Far more importantly, those who've hijacked the Republican Party have adopted a libertarian front for extreme callousness and greed that claims great virtue in everyone being completely on their own and great harm to society by our using our government to create safety nets and government-protected retirement funds.

Hillary's on it because, with people living much longer, it's become a very large national problem. Mostly invisible because 6 out of 7 are women fulfilling expected roles by any family they might have, are almost never affluent and often lower income, and of course all too often are withdrawn from and out of sight of society.

Family caretakers often arrive at their own elder years with nothing but Social Security (if they qualify for that) because they mostly had to stop working and then started depleting their savings during their caretaker years. Worst evil of all, many states have no provision for dividing estates equitably between "caring" relatives and "sharing" (as in sharing the estate) relatives. Thirty years of caring for a relative may not be worth a dime or even an extra night in their own beds in those states.

[Ohiogal]

86. I said this farther on down,

but it makes me want to cry when I think of what Hillary could have accomplished for the good of our country, our elderly, our hard working families, underpaid (or NON paid) women. The GOP propaganda machine sure poisoned people's minds against her. It is heartbreaking.

[Hortensis]

87. Yes, I just saw that. Good for you for addressing

this again. This post was begun when we believed Hillary would continue what Obama started. Heartbreaking.

We will address it eventually, because we have to, and I imagine Hillary will be in the middle of that, complete with studies and plans.

But first, of course, we have to rescue all of us.

COUNTDOWN TO THE MIDTERMS: 247 days

[enough]

3. #4 is right to the point.

When I was taking care of my two elderly parents with dementia, I often felt I would die before them. No time for exercise, no time to cook properly, no time to spend with husband and children (husband was taking care of his own elderly parents at the same time).

Not to mention the stress that comes when you cannot control anything that happens. You're spending all your time trying to make life tolerable for the other person, but there's actually no way to plan in advance. Nothing happens on schedule. And the endless financial drain.

It took me several years to bring myself back to mental and physical health after they died. I feel very lucky I had that much time left.

I believe that long-term caregiving can be traumatic, if you are actually doing it and not paying others to do it.

[Ohiogal]

80. I'm sorry

You had to go through that, enough. I took care of just my mom and THAT seemed like a full time job. I can't imagine doing it for both sets of parents at the same time.

[johnp3907]

4. Number 4. Yeah.

It took me 4 or 5 years to learn how to really sleep again. I was so used to "sleeping with one ear open" as I called it.

[awoke_in_2003]

9. Should I get terminal

I will off myself. I will not put that burden on my family.

[dembotoz]

35. yep me too

[awoke_in_2003]

39. My biggest fear is Alzheimer's

that one horrifies me.

[sheshe2]

45. That was my dad.

Devastating disease for everyone.

[Midnight Writer]

64. 10 years later, and sometimes I still wake up "hearing" my Dad yelling for me

[fleabiscuit]

5. Wow. That let loose some pent-up feelings... Spot on.

[sheshe2]

6. I know, huh.

[fleabiscuit]

7. Thanks sheshe. Back at you.

[OKNancy]

8. Caring for my husband now and it's so true

My ( and his ) life has been turned upside down. We are both isolated with daily trips to radiation, then chemo, and special feeding tube diet, and on top of it all my knee is blown and I'll need a knee replacement but can't until hubby gets better.

What I find is that I can't complain though because he is the one with the cancer. But I swear that every personality trait of his that annoyed me before is magnified now that we are together 24/7. He often hurts my feelings complaining about.... for example too much milk in the oatmeal. Of course that is not a problem now because he is on a total feeding tube diet now.
I've found it is a full time job. I'm exhausted.

Oh, and I'm the one who pays all the bills. Our out of pocket so far this year has been over $9,000. That is so stressful too!

[sheshe2]

14. I know Nancy,

I am so sorry. I know the stress and lack of sleep. It is exhausting and I am sure you are not eating well. All that and your knee as well.

Mom, took another turn last week, another stroke in the night and woke up partially blind in one eye. She elected surgery to clear the blockage. I am not sure where we go from here.

Take care of you. Sending healing thoughts.

[OKNancy]

40. thanks, back to you and your mom as well

[Ohiogal]

81. Sending all the good thoughts I can muster

So that you have enough strength to deal with all this, sheshe.

I enjoy your posts.

[Kali]

82. ...

[CarrieLynne]

10. count me in that boat

just had surgery myself - while my mom is in the hospital, gramma staying with family but neither can live alone(together) anymore - no available bedrooms at their place - mom has only 900/mo SSI - gramma has decent income but - im struggling with what to do with them till they pass, what to do based on which one passes first....mom cant be handled by any single person as shes about 400 lbs
im at a loss....i work full time with a lengthy commute....its just all too much....

[sheshe2]

15. Hugs, CarrieLynne.

I know how hard it is.

Best.

[CarrieLynne]

20. ty <3

[Delmette]

11. Good article, thanks.

Please cross post to the Elder-caregivers group.

[sheshe2]

16. Done, thanks Delmette. n/t

[ismnotwasm]

12. In transplant

Last edited Thu Sep 22, 2016, 11:55 PM - Edit history (1)

One of the requirements to get listed is "good caregiver support"--which often means a spouse or other family member. I have seen caregiver burnout happen before the patient even leaves the hospital--we often deal with very sick patients, some of whom come close to dying many times. We try to address caregiver needs, but it's always inadequate. Me chirpily saying "go home and take some time for yourself" doesn't work. (It has to be a sit down and serious conversation about self-care) The caregiver goes past dedication, often throws their entire life into caring for their beloved other--and this before discharge.

After discharge as noted, the challenges can build up with wound care and monitoring nutrition and transportation to multiple clinic appointments. Our social workers scramble to find home health coverage--so expensive-- and sometimes the only safe answer is some time in a skilled nursing facility. Also expensive.

The emotional stress and financial load is incredibly high, and we need to do better for our caregivers. Much better.

[sheshe2]

17. We did this, for my dad,

then my brother in law was diagnosed with cancer. Dad after his stroke, went to a nursing home. My BIL stayed at home until the end. My sister and I were taking care of both. They died within days of each other, less than two years ago.

Now it is mom, 2nd stroke last week, woke half blind in one eye. Surgery and home after 6 days. She is still in the in law apartment, yet not sure for how much longer.

[ismnotwasm]

47. I'm so sorry

It's so hard

[sheshe2]

49. It is hard ism.

At least she can afford therapy. I just use a brown paper bag.

Sigh~

[sarcasmo]

13. As a caregiver of 8 years, social isolation is real.

I try to get out of the house once a day, but it's tough.

[Andy823]

24. I hear you.

My wife cared for her mother for 11 years with no help, and she became pretty much a recluse. Her mother died in 2013 and now she finds things to do around the house, an in the yard to keep her busy. She has some other issues I wrote about below, but all that time of worrying and caring for her mother took a lot out of her.

I know how you feel. After 3 years now my wife still is depressed. It's hard and I hope something can be done to help everyone who finds themselves in this position.

[GoDawgs]

31. Might try a deck/patio garden, sarcasmo

Plus I can get mom out there on the sun deck to enjoy/help some days too. Sometimes she just watches. Tomatoes & peppers in pots. Hummingbird feeders, seed bird feeders, etc. You dont necessarily need a green thumb either. (But it helps). Anyways, its just 5-10 feet from the house but it becomes another world you can hop into for quick recharges....

[sheshe2]

50. Nice post GoDawgs.

Just watching nature.

Welcome to DU.

[OxQQme]

18. Then when the 'end time' arrived at 98

and we had to have Mom hospitalized, as she weighed about 75 pounds, just skin and bones, and no chance of leaving the hospital, ever, they kept her "alive" with tubes and meds, (even though she was totally 'gone' and unresponsive), against our wishes, for the profit of milking the insurances, in a one person room.

[Alameda]

30. if it was against your wills....

how did they get away with it?

[ghostsinthemachine]

19. If caring for family member

You do not pay into social security as well. My 8years as caregiver do not count toward social security and that gives me a ten year lapse in employment. Meaning no SS until I am 62. I am severely disabled and would qualify easily for disability ssi if not for 4th hat. Sucks.

[sheshe2]

23. That was a full time job for you ghost.

You should not be penalized for it, yet you are.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

21. I've worked at a group care place....

The pay was $50 per 12 hour shift.

8 people living in a small 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

28. $50 for a 12 hour shift?

That's significantly below minimum wage.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

41. About HALF the minimum wage....

$4.17 an hour.

The attitude was you get to sit around watching TV all day. You don't. Had to do lunch and dinner and laundry while dealing with people who were not all there.

As an example one of them was in their 50s and was found wandering the streets in a catatonic state. After a few weeks I got him talking much to the surprise of everyone there. I found out he was in the army reserves so what republicans would consider a homeless bum was at one time in his life standing at attention next to a footlocker all set up for inspection. His condition was the result of a head trauma which left a very nasty scar on the back of his head.

There was dementia and autism but the senility was the most tragic.

One guy kept reverting back to a time long ago when they were in a hotel lobby waiting for their mom and dad to take them to lunch. I'd see him looking out the window as if they would pull up at any time. They both died back in the 1970s. He passed away shortly after I left and I got a call from his daughter thanking me for my kindness.

What can I say, I was the most popular person to work there. Some workers treated them like children, some like they were uncooperative patients. I treated them as guests at a bed and breakfast.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

43. Aren't those jobs covered by federal laws about minimum wage?

I thought just about everything was these days.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

44. You are considered to be a "volunteer"....

In some cases students are earning lab credit.

[Ohiogal]

83. How heartbreaking!

[Andy823]

22. K&R

My wife had to take care of her mother for 11 years, she had two strokes, by herself, because her two brothers were "to busy" and would not help. They did finally help the last year of her life, but only because I demanded they help her. One lived less that a 1/4 of a mile from the house, and the other lived about 500 yards from the house! I really pissed me off for years, but my wife felt it was her job because her brothers were "to busy" with other things to help.

They could go on vacations to Hawaii, go out every weekend to push religious literature, they are both Jehovahs Witnesses, go to JW conventions, do whatever they wanted to, but couldn't find the time to take their mother for a week or so to give my wife a break. To top it off we are "shunned" by the entire congregation of JW's because we stopped going to meetings because of problems with my one brother in laws wife.

All those years we raised our two children and took care of her mother but my wife was unable to work outside of the house. When she is eligible for SS it will only be around $500.00 a month, minus the amount for her Medicare part B. Many people will get less than that. I do remember one of the things that drew to Martin O'Malley was his detailed plan to help those who find themselves in this position. I also know that Hillary has come up with a plan also, but haven't really checked the whole thing out. This is on issue I hope gets brought out in the debates because I know the only hope for getting something done to help those who are helping care for a loved one will come from Hillary, not Trump. We also need to make sure we can get control of congress, and someday the House, in order to fix this problem.

I know what you are going through She and I know, as you stated, may more will be in this position over the years. I needs to be addressed as soon as possible.

[sheshe2]

25. I am sorry for the strain your wife went through.

The stress is unbearable. Our parents have become our children.

I am the one that will probably retire early, sadly I am unemployed and little prospect for a job at my age. Ha, retirement will barely cover my rent. My sister 1 1/2 years older wants to work longer, as a nurse she works part time yet made more than I did full time when I was working. She is financially secure and has been helping me out.

Whatever happens it won't be easy.

Best to you and yours, Andy.

[Andy823]

32. Thanks She

I am just lucky that my father is doing pretty well for being 86. He lives by himself, it's only a 20 minute drive to his house, and he drives to town for groceries, Dr. appointments, etc. with help from me when he has to travel very far to see specialists. He has had several trips to the hospital the past year, and last year he had to have his gallbladder removed, but all in all he is doing pretty well. His father, my grandfather, lived to be 95, could have probably lived longer, but he kind of gave up when my grandmother died, and slowly got worse till he passed away.

My sister used to help out, she would spend the winter with him, but she passed away in March of 2014. I am glad your sister is helping it really does help.

Best to you and yours too She.

[sheshe2]

34. Dad made 93.

Mom is 90. Lol. My mom was driving very locally until she was 89+. We limited her to town, which is small. She is small too and ya could hardly see her over the steering wheel.

Andy!

[sunnystarr]

54. The minimum Social Security

benefit is $733/month for one person and $1,100/month for a couple. If there isn't any other income they won't have to pay for Medicare or Part D which would be covered by Medicaid.

[elmac]

26. I spent several years and probably over $100,000

taking care of my parents before they died of cancer. There was no state of Federal financial help but hospice was a big help and will never forget that. Though I will probably never recover financially I would do it again in a heartbeat. Yes, my health suffered also.

[sheshe2]

51. I am so sorry for your loss.

It is hard to get over.

[Texasgal]

27. My husband is slowly dying waiting

for a kidney/liver transplant. I am his sole caregiver and still must work to make ends meet. I am under 50 years old.

Some days when I leave to go to work I get anxious and worried because I KNOW he shouldn't be home alone. It's a real mess.

[annabanana]

38. Oh my poor Texasgal..

Is there no neighbor could look in on him for you while you're gone. I am so sorry you are shouldering this burden alone.

[Texasgal]

42. I do have some neighbor that

will look in on him yes. Thank goodness for that. I guess my real problem is that his illness has completely consumed me. I talk about nothing else and I think about nothing else. My time is spent caring for him just about every moment of the day. He has been officially listed for close to a year. He has two sisters but they are so in denial about his status that they cannot deal with it at all.

The hospitals stays and ER visits are close to 52 times this past year. Plus, out Transplant center is in San Antonio,TX and we are in Austin. It's about two hours away.

I hate to complain...but things have gone from okay to BAD... very BAD. I am so nervous and stressed out beyond belief. I've been told that he will be near death before he gets transplanted. I can not think of anything worse because he is there right now. He weighs 102 lbs. He can hardly eat and has become a shell of himself.

Sorry, I have just vented. Being a caregiver is not easy. I am depressed and this disease has consumed me.

[ismnotwasm]

48. I am a transplant RN

Feel free to vent to me anytime, I see people in your situation all the time, and while I can't help much, I can listen and understand

[sheshe2]

53. My thoughts are with you, Texasgal.

Vent when you wish, you need that. We are here for you.

[annabanana]

58. You go ahead and vent as much as you need to..

All our situations vary in duration and degree. My dear husband was very ill in the year before he passed and I tended him and 2 adult sons with behavioral issues.

It is very hard work.

You will always find at least a sympathetic ear here at DU, but you may also find people with valuable information and resources that may help lighten your load.

Peace and Warm wishes
Ann K

[yardwork]

29. I am sending prayers and peace to all the caregivers tonight.

May you get some rest tonight. You are on the side of angels.

[LeftInTX]

33. This is gonna sound awful:

But I'm so glad that my mom died of a sudden aneurysm.

My dad is still alive.
Also one never knows what will happen with a spouse or even an adult child.

Hugs to you SheShe

[sheshe2]

36. Hey, Left.

That does not sound bad to me at all. It is the way I want to go.

My mom said the same thing at the hospital. "This is gonna sound awful:" I want to go fast. Boom.

[cry baby]

37. Been there for 4 years and no end in sight.

Definitely affecting health, marriage, and life in general.

[sheshe2]

46. Hang in there it is all we can do right now. n/t

[cry baby]

59. Most days, hanging in there with a smile!

Take care. ((Hugs))

[Buckeye_Democrat]

52. It's indeed VERY hard.

I was born when my parents were in their 40's and I stayed in this area to care for them when they got older. My oldest brother went blind and couldn't drive anymore -- but not "legally blind" to get any aid -- and he moved in with them just to survive, so he got the worst of it. He aged dramatically during the last few years of their lives. He was always very health-conscious and athletic, but he's now in far worse health than our oldest sister who avoided that stress because she had "her own family."

Dad had dementia and my brother and I were actually relieved when he finally passed away. Then Mom had a massive stroke about a month later and she was "crazy" later as well.

I have sympathy for anyone who deals with a seriously mentally ill person in their family too. I'm not a psychologist, but my parents were basically schizophrenic and bipolar due to their dementia. They also needed diapers changed, so they were like giant, crazy-talking babies.

[lostnfound]

55. Congress passed a Respite Law but republicans won't fund it

Hillary supported it about 12 years ago but GOP resists funding it.

Provides a little time off or support for caregivers. Or it would have.

[Dawson Leery]

63. kick

[LeftofObama]

56. Bookmarking.

I'm a full time caregiver for my mother and while I don't have it quite as bad as some of the people here (My heart goes out to them!), the social isolation and stress is really getting to me.

[Divine Discontent]

57. Right here, folks. Many read what I did for a sibling.

I have stress issues, rotted teeth, no property or wealth, but I'm hopeful and I sing a lot to relieve worries.

God bless and good vibes to all who do any amount of caregiving.

[niyad]

60. k and r + gazillion. and the situation is only going to get worse as the population

ages.

[sheshe2]

65. It was a well written article that pinpoints the issues the caregivers face.

The fear, anxiety,stress and loss of income is bad enough. It can literally kill them.

Thanks niyad.

[AikenYankee]

62. Thank you sheshe2 ....

I've been struggling with early onset dementia with my beautiful wife (of 48 years) for seven years now. It is really heartbreaking, stressful and expensive! Waiting for the day that something is done to ease the caregiver burden. Doubtful anything will happen in my lifetime. Trying to be hopeful.

[bucolic_frolic]

66. Caregivers are trapped in a death spiral

No matter how hard they work, you know the outcome, and you do
work harder at it as the years move along

The unspoken emotional roller coaster between hope and despair,
reality and denial takes its toll too

Other parts of the family are not often helpful, it's the givers that
are caregivers, not the takers

Hospice is not always involved, though caregivers need respite and
don't want to admit it

I can relate to the financial impact, there is no recovery from it, just
flexible coping, and government does not help, in many states estate
taxes are due immediately even on small estates

I'm still living in isolation, once you drop out of the workforce, out of
society, the road back is not evident

[Hortensis]

67. What you said about estate taxes is interesting.

I hadn't thought of state inheritance taxes. Caregivers are often/usually in a codependent relationship, and there should be automatic protections for continuation of wellbeing during probate, etc.

And all the horror stories about the legal troubles caregivers can find themselves in. We need a legal gateway for caregivers, federal so it helps everyone, to a process in which very early on caregivers could be given automatic legal status, and rights and duties, in a variety of spheres, such as automatic potential candidacy for respite programs or credits. Social Security could be that gateway for most and also provide data for various government entities.

As it is, we really, really need to arrange for SS to be calculated at a rate estimated to be what a caregiver would have earned if he or she had continued in the workforce. Society has an enormous interest in enabling family caregiving, and t's tragically overdue. If we get Hillary and Democratic control of the Senate, this could happen before too long. In addition to enormous lost wages during caregiver years, many of course cannot reenter the workforce at anything like the income that would have been expected, and that future loss should be recognized and offset also.

Changing SS status to "caregiver" when assuming that role, full or part time, could trigger a whole cascade of legal positioning so that the status was legally recognized and automatically addressed, for instance, no matter what wills say, and so on. Many who these days have no idea of potential legal quagmires would nevertheless have assistance and protections from specialized courts as a safety net.

This whole thread is heartbreaking, and so unnecessarily. We can do so much better for everyone. It just has to be comprehensively addressed.

[bucolic_frolic]

68. Pennsylvania estate taxes whacked me so hard

poor planning, attorneys who never asked, I think they get a % from the state,
all they ever worried about was Medicaid countable assets that never even
became relevant

They taxed everything, the house, whatever else, all due in 30 days, for
caregivers who live with the deceased they gave I think it was a $2500
exclusion, that saved me $120. That was their gift to the caregiver.

THIEFS!!

[Hortensis]

69. $120/$2500 as recompense of all your economic sacrifice alone?

0 recognition of the enormous living adjustments required? Sickening.

A friend of a friend found herself in horrible legal trouble when her demented mother claimed she was abusing her--with the encouragement of one of her sisters. Being cared for at home was saving the estate (almost all tied up in the house) something like $5000 a month or more at that time, and in the end the friend was left with a large pile of legal debts incurred putting away the criminal charges; but, from what I was told, threatened with being sued in civil court, she agreed not to pursue more than a nominal share of the inheritance or any of their mother's personal possessions. And of course, after attending their mother to the very end through home hospice, she had to be out of the house immediately.

Caregivers just can't be assumed to have the expertise or prescience to handle these complex matters themselves, and certainly not the money. They need legal status and protections to draw on that, among other things, should help discourage predatory relatives.

[bucolic_frolic]

70. The way things play out

as I understand, is the caregiver gets the house all other things being equal.

If the house is left to someone else, another family member say, the caregiver
should get a lawyer. Ejecting a resident caregiver is not like an ordinary tenant, at least
in some states.

As far as protecting estates, there is the small lawyer route, which is like
I went through, let things fall where they may. I could have been paid up to a
certain amount for caregiving, but it's all taxable, so I'd be no better off.

I've heard of people with big bucks go with one of the high priced estate attorneys ... this costs
8 to 10 grand just in legal fees, but they will save your estate - trusts, gifts, etc.
if it's large enough.

I would say to anyone with parents who are solvent - hollow out your parents estate
to the extent you can, and start early. Even if it's with jointly titled savings bonds,
that will reduce the problem 50%. Hollow things out with debt - mortgages, loans.
Grandma was a high liver, a leaky boat. Ate at fancy restaurants. She was thin because
she ate like a bird every time, brought home doggy bags, it all spoiled in the fridge.

There are insurance plans in some states - I didnt' know about this one. Plunk your
assets or hollowed out house in a life insurance/medical care hybrid. You can get the
money, but only for medical care. Of course, no one uses it - so it passes as life
insurance to your beneficiaries - and in PA, that is tax free!

If you have the money and the legal teams, they will create loopholes for you. All
others pay cash and blood, sweat, and tears.

So in my planning, I am slowly over the years collapsing my life into a Roth IRA - that's
where the equity should reside. Everything else is shrinking. If you're 85 with a second
mortgage, bills out your ears, and you barely pay them, all from SS and your Roth, you've
done it right. It will pass to your heirs, and not to the government. Your estate will be
basically empty.

[Hortensis]

71. Ouch! Survival suggestions from someone's who's been

through the mill. We need far better options, though, so most of that scorched-earth survival plan is not necessary. And a basic set of standards and practices should be federally mandated so they apply to all states.

Here in Georgia, for instance, the very definition of knuckledragging regression, there is no community property right to a spousal share of one's own estate. One spouse can will the entire estate to someone else, although I'm not sure under what circumstances that awful thing could be done--maybe any.

And if a spouse dies without a will, only a guaranteed one-third of their estate automatically goes to the survivor spouse because the estate will be split between the spouse and their children; if one child only, the survivor gets a whole half. Whoopee-do.

If a will is made before divorce, any bequest to the surviving ex-spouse is nullified by the state, so the survivor gets not a penny, not a photograph. No guess how many ex-wives who became caretakers only learned about this after final rites, but we're mostly talking about people who don't have business managers and personal attorneys so it's probably a large number.

In any case, you'll be able to imagine all too well how all this might complicate things for caretakers.

[bucolic_frolic]

72. You make valid points

Dying intestate (without a will) is similar here. Grandkids can sue for 1/6 of the estate I believe.
It takes a slick lawyer to squelch those things before the fact.

You're right we do need national standards, but Congress won't agree anymore than
separate state legislatures agree. The laws vary so much state to state. Is all this
legalese efficient for our society? I so so so disagree with 50 state standards as opposed
to a national standard.

This whole 'joint property the state's after it for eldercare' model must be streamlined.
The rules change every few years.

That's why Roth is my path. Prior to marriage what's in your Roth is yours. Only accruals
after marriage are divisible in a divorce. It's untaxable. If your heirs do the right thing with
it, it's still untaxable. Not that it's more than a working man's nest egg, but it's a start.

"knuckledragging regression" ... LOL

[Hortensis]

73. I was a student with about 17 cents before marriage,

so I didn't know that about Roths.

Well, let's hope Congress agrees eventually anyway. After all, Congress didn't "agree" to healthcare reform and still refuses to do the typical required tweaking, but we passed it anyway. I think it's a matter of where caretaker reforms fall on a long list of heavy priorities to be tackled. Perhaps some improvements will be bundled with other related endeavors.

Obama's a good president, but we've never had a president as focused on the welfare of families, of making society function well for them as a critical unit, as Hillary would be. And of course on women's issues, which this one overwhelmingly is.

[Ohiogal]

85. You are so right, Hortensis

Although I'm sure there are a large number of male caregivers, the bulk of it falls on women.

Sometimes, and I hope I don't get slammed for saying this, it takes another woman to completely see and understand these issues that overwhelmingly negatively affect women's well being. And I loved Obama, he did more to help the needy than most. I almost cry when I think of what Hillary could have brought attention to and gotten accomplished. Now we are stuck with this egotistical hate monger who lives and breathes greed and corruption.

[deek]

74. "I'm still living in isolation, once you drop out of the workforce, out of society, the road back is

"I'm still living in isolation, once you drop out of the workforce, out of
society, the road back is not evident"


so true!

[bucolic_frolic]

75. Wow that is a reply to an old post of mine

Are you still on that path? We should compare notes. I'm still there, but for the umpteenth time I'm hoping I have a formula for change this time around. Employers are still not helping. I should have started another business, or even bought a tiny business in the recession. So many assets so cheap! eBay was not a business, it's a side gig. It helps.

Selling myself to an employer? No experience. No skills. Educated, run a small business, have 2-3 side gigs going, but it's not relevant to them. Unless one looks and acts like a 20-something, employers just don't see the value basis in your motivation and presence. To me they are 24-karat DUMB!

[TexasBushwhacker]

77. I was able to get a job because I did volunteer work

Don't discount the value of a current professional reference. It makes all the difference.

[bucolic_frolic]

78. Yes I volunteer for a health care organization

didn't make a difference, not even with the parent company of the HCO.

It's a closed loop in the hinterlands of America

But thanks, you give me hope anyway

[spooky3]

76. Pres. Obama initially included long term care programs in ACA, but it didn't have

the political support to remain in the bill.