Citizen's United or Roe vs. Wade? Which decision do you want overturned?

[One of the 99]

This is the most important issue in this election. Whoever wins will shape the Supreme Court for the next 10 to 20 years.

If you want Roe vs. Wade overturned, either don't vote or vote for Romney. He'll appoint justices like Alito, Roberts and Scalia. They overturn every progressive decision of the last 50 years. They'll make state bans on gay marriage constitutional. They'll protect the rights of corporations and the wealthy.

If you want Citizen's United overturned, get out and vote for President Obama. He'll appoint more justices like Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan. They'll protect Roe and other progressive decisions. They'll help overturn Citizen's United and protect the rights of individuals.

That is what is at stake in this election. Don't let anyone tell you different. Don't let them tell you that President Obama is just not progressive enough. Anyone who says that is helping the GOP and the right wing. When the perfect is the enemy of the good the evil often triumph. Don't let evil triumph and don't let Mitt Romney pick the next one or two, possibly more, supreme court justices.

[DesertFlower]

1. K&R. nt

[GCP]

2. It's a no-brainer

Until Citizen's is overturned, we'll never have a fair shot at getting even moderate justices on the SC.

[Dalai_1]

3. K&R.nt

[SemperEadem]

4. CU, of course

I want RvW strengthened against the vortex of fukkery being aimed at it.

[Enrique]

5. that is the baseline reason to vote for Democratic presidents

its hard to deny that any democrat, including Joe Lieberman, would be better than any Republican, due to the Supreme Court.

But next primary we should make sure that the nominee does a lot more than the bare minimum any Democratic president would do. The Republicans when they take office shift the politics dramatically rightward, we have to make sure when we get power we dont just accept the status quo we have to move it in our direction.

[CTyankee]

11. Joe Lieberman is NOT a Democrat! Please, we here in CT threw that

effing bastard out of the Democratic Party. He is an Independent who may call himself a Democrat but that is just plain wrong.

Joe Lieberman was a total traitor to the Democratic Party, due to his rage that the Dems of CT threw him out of our party on his bony ass. He is responsible for seeing to it that the Public Option (much less Single Payer) was not even considered during the health care reform process. He is a disgusting POS and I regret voting for him in 2001, but I had no choice anyway. He then supported John McCain against Barack Obama in 2008.

A worthless sack of crap. That's Joe Lieberman.

[Enrique]

23. for purposes of the Supreme Court he is the same as a Democrat

so in a general election, he would be far superior to a Republican, for the reasons in the OP. But, in a primary, no way. We need to pick candidates who have much more than the supreme court factor, as important as that is.

[CTyankee]

33. don't count on him, buddy. He's proven to be a really sullen, perverse, selfish bastard.

He's not going to do this country any favors.

Please.

[morningfog]

6. Obama's picks would be far better than Romney's for sure.

Obama isn't progressive enough when it comes to governance, but far better than Romney.

No Supreme Court is going to overturn Roe v. Wade, though. Citizens United could be more likely to be chipped away or overturned.

[One of the 99]

8. You don't think a Supreme Court

full of Alitos and Scalias wouldn't overturn Roe v. Wade? You're dreaming.

[morningfog]

9. No, they wouldn't. Especially not Alito.

He is a big state's rightist. Roe allows states to regulate abortion, within reason. It is well-established precedent, and would be impossible to overturn without overturning dozens, perhaps hundreds, of other cases. It simply isn't going to happen.

Conservatives have held a majority on the Court for a long time and never even attempted to come close to touching Roe.

That said, a more conservative Court would be disastrous for many, many future decisions and issues and is reason to vote for Obama.

[One of the 99]

12. Yes they would if Romney packs the court with right wing ideologues

Say what you want about Sandra Day O'Conner or Anthony Kennedy but they would have never overturned it. But justices like them won't be like them. Don't kid yourself that they wouldn't overturn it.

[morningfog]

13. How could they? They have to write an opinion that wouldn't undo

decades of precedent that has built. What language would they use? On what grounds? What cases would they cite? How far would it go, in your mind? Have you ever read the Roe opinion?

It is not as easy as you think to overturn such established law. The fallout would be devastating to this country, there would likely be a constitutional crisis. It is fear-mongering, in my opinion. It simply won't happen.

[One of the 99]

14. Citizen's United overturned over a century of legal precedents.

That didn't stop them. You're living in denial if you think it couldn't happen.

[morningfog]

15. Tell me how.

Did you read CU? It built on already established precedent.

Just telling me I am living in denial is not a very strong argument. You would have to show me how they would do it. Start by reading the opinion itself: http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0410_0113_ZO.html

[One of the 99]

18. But you are in denial

The conservatives on the court don't care about precedents, they care about ideology. Bush v. Gore was all about ideology. So was Citizen's United. That it the reality that you are denying.

[morningfog]

19. Your fear in regard to Roe is unfounded.

But, they could do worlds of damage.

[BzaDem]

24. That is not accurate. Roe is gone if Kennedy/Ginsburg retires under Romney and a Republican Senate.

Gone.

You said above that Alito is a "states rightist." That is correct, but it means the opposite of what you are saying it means. Republican's primarily complaint about Roe is that it does NOT allow states to regulate abortion, up to the time of viability of the fetus. If Roe is completely overturned, states will have full power to ban (or not ban) abortion at any time.

After Souter, Republicans have essentially refined their judicial selection process to a science. Their main goal is to ensure that there is no doubt that all of their appointees will overturn Roe.

[One of the 99]

26. Well said! nt

[One of the 99]

32. Not fear, reality

Which you are denying.

[BzaDem]

25. CU was not at all "built on established precedent." It EXPLICITLY overturned precedent.

Austin vs. Michigan Chamber of Commerce (decided in 1990) already decided the question. McConnell vs. FEC (decided in 2003) again decided the question. Corporate speech advocating the election or defeat of a candidate could be regualted/banned. The entire Citizens United case was whether or not to overrule Austin and McConnell, and they did so.

To explicitly overrule two precedents in the last 20 years, they cited two other precedents (Bellotti and Buckley). But Bellotti applied only to ballot measures and not candidate elections (and its opinion specifically stated this), and Buckley only applied to spending by individuals (not corporations). On the other hand, Austin and McConnell applied specifically to spending by corporations in candidate elections. They were both explicitly overruled.

[Marr]

28. Tagging, because I'd love to read the response.

Though I doubt you'll get one.

[One of the 99]

34. You were right nt

[SoutherDem]

7. To me those who don't care about another election issue

this should be their reason to vote in November.

[RB TexLa]

10. Neither, both were decided correctly.

[ZM90]

16. Do tell us how Citizens United was decided correctly cause I don't see it

[Zoeisright]

30. No kidding. Citizens United ranks right up there with Dred Scott.

Free speech is NOT money, and corporations are NOT people. Anyone who thinks so is deluded.

[davidpdx]

17. I think it's highly doubtful Citizen's United will be overturned by a court

The only way to overturn it is through a constitutional amendment, which is an uphill battle considering what it takes to get one passed. The scarier one at this point is Roe v. Wade because right now the law is on our side. We have everything to lose on that one.

[Stargleamer]

20. Bush vs. Gore. . . n/t

[lunatica]

21. You should repeat that argument every chance you get

There are plenty of DUers who are very bitter and want a lot of company in their misery.

[One of the 99]

31. Everyone should be repeating this argument.

For this reason alone, the election is very important.

[Marrah_G]

22. err wtf?......