Can we all agree that, today's verdict notwithstanding, Clemens was a juicer?

[Stinky The Clown]

To take it to a personal level, I think juicing is at least as bad as what Pete Rose did. I think the MLB punishment ought to be the same. You can put the other juicers in the same group.

Fuck 'em.

[taterguy]

1. No

We can't all agree on anything.

Obviously.

[madinmaryland]

8. You are wrong...

It is you that cannot agree with anyone.

Obviously.

[Drale]

2. Yes and if there is one thing to take away from today

its that Clemens will never get into the HoF.

[L0oniX]

3. Who cares. Cheating has become the American way ...just ask Wallstreet.

It's not what you do, it's what you get away with.

[Renew Deal]

4. No. We can't all agree.

[elleng]

5. No, I can't agree,

not having followed him.

Pete Rose, and what he did, is a DIFFERENT animal entirely, imo.

EDIT: Was this a test, Stinky? Of COURSE we all can't agree!

:lmao:

[DonCoquixote]

6. Gambling

Will not encourage a whole generation of athletes to turn their livers into pate, nor give them roid rage to beat their girlfriends faces into pizza. It will not turn "sports doctors" into pushers, nor NCAA student athletics into big bucks.

What Roger did was ten times worse, Pete only screwed himself over.

[trumad]

24. Wrong...

Gambling on your own team while you're a manager destroys the integrity of the game.

[bluedigger]

42. Exactly.

PEDs are for one purpose only - it's in the name. Gambling is much worse on an institutional level.

[immoderate]

7. Verdict?

About what?

--imm

[SoutherDem]

9. I am not a baseball fan, I can't even tell you what team he played for

so I really didn't care but wasn't the trial on if he lied to congress? I won't to know why congress is worried about baseball and not our economy?

[oldhippie]

10. No, I don't think we can. nt

nt

[madinmaryland]

11. Yes. Clemens was a juicer. The government's case, though, was complete BS and

a waste of time.

I'd rather see Pete Rose in the Hall than any of the Juicers.

[Texasgal]

12. I found the trial to be a

despicable waste of taxpayers time and money!

We need to FOCUS. Jobs, economy, SS, medicare, medicaid...etc.

next taxpayer waste? Lance Armstrong!

In the grand scheme of things, who the hell CARES? What a waste!

* this is not directed to you personally Stinky, I'm just letting off some steam.

[Stinky The Clown]

36. I agree with you. Its all a bunch of Congressional showboating. They might try doing their jobs.

[DevonRex]

13. Why the fuck does Congress spend any time

time on it? They can do that but not go after bankers? All things being comparative, it's like going after a little guy and letting the big cheaters go Scott free.

What? Like we don't know the difference between pro sports money and REAL fucking money, banking fucking money?

So he cheated and got a salary. Big whoop.

[rateyes]

27. baseball gets anti-trust law exemption from congress.

they should take that exemption away, imo

[bigwillq]

29. He's a role model to some children

teens, young adults, etc.

If he used steroids, cheated, etc., it's not a very good example to set for impressible youths.

I feel Congress should spend some time on it. The body should be able to multi-task (go after bankers and steroid abusers).

[Texasgal]

39. Sports figures should not

be role models for children. That's the problem.

I mean, are kids going to study the trial? I doubt that seriously.

We need to stop making entertainers and sports figures role models. It's disgusting and dumb. This comes from someone who enjoys sports very much.

As for congress, no amount of multi-tasking will make up for the ridiculous expense and time spent on this stupid trial.

[bigwillq]

40. But they are. And will continue to be.

No, kids won't probably study the trial. But I am pretty sure they are aware what their idols are up to, and that includes steroid use, DUI charges, etc....

[Texasgal]

41. I hear you...

but we need to stop wasting taxpayers time and money on this crap.

Just because it continues doesn't mean it's right!

[obamanut2012]

14. Yes

And, Pete Rose has been the victim of someone in charge who hated him, and he should be allowed to be inducted into the Hall of Fame.

[trumad]

25. Disagree...

I think what Rose did was 100 times worse....

Gambling on your own team while managing the team.... that destroys the integrity of the game.

[just1voice]

15. I've explained to people why pro baseball is a joke, most don't care

If people understood that lying to Congress is about lying to the American people and viewed it as the horrendous anti-American act that it is, then possibly people would give a flying fck. But most people are not even capable of anything but reactive Pavlovian responses to propaganda wherein it's OK to lie about anything as long as it's viewed as being in the liar's self-interest.

MLB is a typical American business that lives by the same credo of lying, cheating, stealing, propagandizing and profits. It's really vulgar at its core but its fans have learned to just ignore all the stink and focus on themselves and their little rah-rah, go-team act they see as some twisted kind of spirit.

[sad sally]

19. when you "stretch the truth," watchout for the snap back...

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

22. "Lying to politicians" ... now there's a concept chock full o' irony.

In soviet russia, citizen lies to politician.

[cherokeeprogressive]

37. Baseball is vulgar at its core...

[ileus]

16. It's a game.....a game....only a game.

Congress lies to us and we're not supposed to care, lie to congress and they'll waste millions to help heal their bruised EGO's



on another note....Pete Rose is innocent.


Go Cinci!

[just1voice]

20. It's a profession, a career, a business, they get paid millions, IT'S NOT A GAME

Congress lies their asses off everyday too, neither group of liars deserves to be paid to lie to us.

[cynatnite]

17. I don't know if he did or didn't...

I do think professional sports are inherently corrupt.

[MrSlayer]

18. No and I don't care if he did.

It's just a stupid game, there is nothing sacred about it. If steroids make you better and recover from injury faster then you probably should take them. That's your job, to be on the field and to produce. To entertain the fans.

I think Pete Rose did worse because the steroid guys are trying harder to win and he was betting against his own team and throwing games intentionally.

[mathematic]

31. Rose didn't bet against the Reds or throw games

The official report from MLB at the time said betting on baseball and betting on Reds victories. After more than a decade, Rose finally admitted this when he wanted to sell more copies of his book. There's never been any evidence that he bet against the reds or that his betting affected the outcomes of games (they were simple win/loss bets). He was a regular gambler, betting on football, basketball, other baseball games, and (he says) every reds game.

[MrSlayer]

32. I don't believe him.

Why? Because he's a proven liar. First it was, "I never bet on baseball" then it became "ok, I bet on baseball but not on games I was involved in" then it became "ok, I bet on games I was involved in but only for my team to win." The next logical step is what? He's a liar and a scumbag.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

44. The thing with a baseball manager betting on his team only to win is >>>

>>>he has control over not just the game he's betting on but the games before it and after it. Among the things he controls day to day is who plays-- and by extension things like who's tired and who's available. And if he bets on Wednesday's game to win, other gamblers in the know might figure that that manager might be, for instance, holding back his best relievers on Tuesday so they're ready on Wednesday (planning ahead, you'd work them hard on Monday and maybe Sunday so no one would question 'resting them'). And the other gamblers would bet on the opponents on Tuesday-- or Thursday if he really got his best guys spent. So even though the manager never bet on Tuesday's or Thursday's games, even though he never ever bet against his own team, he arguably set the table for everyone else to.

[panader0]

21. I think Clemons was a "juicer", but I don't really care

I think the old timers had their substances too, benzedrine, etc.
What athlete these days does not take something to beef up?
Countless footballers, baseballers, bike riders, tennis players, basketball players, boxers, wrestlers all take either some kind of muscle builder or upper
to enhance their game. There are new products on the market all the time, kind of like drugs to get high, change one molecule and it's not illegal anymore. This is not new, and is nearly impossible to stop.
"In the ideal world........"
Poor Tim Lincecum, they took away his grass, and now the two time Cy Young winner is 2 and 8. Bobby Bonds (Barry's dad) used to get high before a game because he said he could see the ball better.

[sadbear]

23. It was obvious.

And no pitcher today should have to live up to the extraordinary measure that juicer created. Keep him out of the Hall, along with Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, and Palmeiro I say.

[taught_me_patience]

26. Why not A-Rod and Manny Ramirez too?

They both tested positive!

[sadbear]

28. Yeah, them, too.

Sorry that my list wasn't comprehensive. There are definitely a lot more offenders.

[Spike89]

30. Sure, agree with the juicer part, not the Pete Rose thing

Juicing isn't worth defending, but at least they (the juicers) are doing it to be their best. Hell, a significant number of players in the 60s and 70s were buzzing on speed and painkillers. Before that it was maybe something else. Rumors are that many guys in the 50s would show up for games semi-drunk or at least hungover (Micky Mantle). None of that is "good for the game" but it isn't actively undermining the foundation of the sport.
Gambling threatens to turn the whole sport into WWF-level show biz where the only competition is seeing how many kids you can fool into believing the outcome was ever in doubt.
Clemens does not belong in the HOF (well unless Barry Bonds gets in), but Pete Rose doesn't belong anywhere near baseball.

[bbinacan]

33. No. n/t

[aikoaiko]

34. All professional athletes have to push the limit physically

...And use substances and medicine to remain competitive. Professional athletes must hurt themselves to perform

[Crabby Appleton]

35. Yes, I agree

Fuck'em

[cherokeeprogressive]

38. Nnnnnnope.

[bluedigger]

43. Yes and no.

I think Roger juiced, but that it is not as bad as gambling on games you participate in. PEDs are illegal because they are dangerous to your long-term health. Otherwise, they would be just as legal as a protein shake and a carbohydrate bar. Gambling corrupts the game itself.

[flvegan]

45. Better yet, what would it matter?

Juicing is convenient. It's an accusation based on folks not knowing what they're talking about.

I find it funny that the criminalization of performance enhancement v legal performance enhancement has made most folks a laughable sort in the discussion. Based on time and date. Why one thing is "legal" and one not.

I've issued this challenge here and elsewhere before. Most sports fans don't know beyond their television and their beer-clenched fist anything otherwise that ESPN doesn't tell them.

I could build a legal supplement regimen that would rival a light anabolic stack. And have.

They banned ephedrine (because they're knee-jerk, anti-science idiots) and had no clue to Methyl-1.

Here's your sign: "Hi, we're stupid to have this job."

[Stinky The Clown]

46. What if the rules said "no nose picking"?

See, that's what is fundamental to this. All these Million Dollar Babies breaking the rules for self aggrandizement and self interest.

I'm glad you're such a proficient chemist. Good on ya!




Hey, how about that Sandusky guy, huh?