WI Recount is a go and I am happy for the first time all month

[jodymarie aimee]

I am watching GUESS WHO CAME TO DINNER and bawling like a baby. 1967. The parents are so freaked out by the thought of Sidney Poitier marrying young white Joanna. 1967. We were alive. Fricking 1967. Sidney's parents fly up to SF and all marvel 400 miles in 40 minutes. Do you realize all the great things America has become. And we take for granted. On this day OF THANKS, we know the vulgarian may turn our great America into Nazi Germany. No hyperbole here. Our country will be gone.

So I am happy for the first time all month. It looks like the WI recount is a go. Preparations being made. Jill Stein needed $2.5Million for all 3 states and she has raised near $7Million. Good Americans fighting. And if they cheated and HRC won here, Russ also wins. Happy Thanksgiving my wonderful beautiful Progressives. Keep the FAITH.

[sheshe2]

1. K&R

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

2. Having been involved in a couple recounts in WI and 2004 ohio - and I like to think Im well read -

I don't know how possible it will be to install Hillary - as much as I would hope and pray. The 2004 debacle was hung up in the courts for years and for all I know it may still be.

So for me, its more about changing direction and I just wanna know one way or another wtf is going on??? Not buying hat all these trump voters were supposedly too shy to talk to a pollster anonymously. The "red shift" (exit polls not matching, but actual always, always favoring the Rs) is real and I want to know why.

So happy to read also that the attys who worked on 2004 Ohio are involved and they are using terms like "forensic investigations" which means that they will go beyond simple recount procedure. If statutes are outdated, a recount may not be able to detect electronic fraud so if they can go beyond that and conduct whats basically an investigation of a possible crime.... we may actually get somewhere with this!!!!!!!!

And for THAT... I am thankful!.

[DallasNE]

7. Seems That Most Of The Polls Were Accurate

They went crazy in voter ID states, which were mostly swing states, making one wonder how many tens of thousands of registered voters were denied the vote because they lacked the proper ID.

In Wisconsin Obama won the state by 7% over Romney. Romney got more votes than Trump yet Trump won the state by 1%. Those numbers defy logic.

[Indydem]

32. Why? What is so hard to understand?

African Americans critical to electing Democratic candidates didn't show up.

Whites did.

Trump wins.

It doesn't "defy logic;" it is the epitome of it.

This recount business is a scam. It's not going to take place. Stein doesn't have standing in any of these states to request a recount.

[harun]

33. 1

[7962]

36. Dont forget, somehow Trump got twice the number of black & hispanic votes as Romney

Those figures have gotten lost in the story.
And the margin of victory in the states in question arent really close enough to hope fora swing. Even Stein is saying she has no evidence of tampering
I think it just "is what it is"

[Indydem]

37. Despite the media narrative...

He really did make the case to the disinfranchised of all classes and races that it was the policies of the elites, of both parties, that have led to their lot in life.

He didn't offer any actual solutions. He didn't offer any policies that will help anyone but the super rich. He doesn't have a plan to fix anything. He's a fraud.

But he put forth a narrative that people who are scared can really get behind.

We have to show that our policies are the real way to make their lives better.

I'm still struggling with issues like that when our Democratic President supports TPP and other disasterous policies that hurt the working class.

[7962]

39. Agreed. I remember when he said "what have you got to lose?"

everyone laughed at him and made fun of how ridiculous it was. I thought, "You know thats actually a great idea. No one has ever been that blunt. People will but it"
And it seems many did

Your last point is valid as well

[DK504]

57. Overturn election

With 2 billion in free advertising he never talked about policy. The media laughing their way to a Trump "presidency" handed him the election.

But isn't odd he won 1% while 30,000 votes were denied for Hillary all over the country.

[Generator]

63. The media narrative?

Are you shitting me? The media narrative was that they were both "equally hated". That e mails were the same as saying why can't we use nuclear weapons and let's destroy NATO. FOR STARTERS. I'm not even into the threat to civil liberties and torturing people and every goddamn other thing he said that was an abomination.

I'm struggling why a decent human being isn't going to be president over one that hates all people of color and grabs pussies for fun and we are fine with it. Vomit alert.

He made the case. Bullshit. He lied. He lied. He lied. Oh and he found lots of nice scapegoats of every religion and color AND compared a decent woman as if she was doing ALL THE REALLY BAD SHIT HE IS ACTUALLY DOING. Why don't you find an independent board to discuss how wrong Democrats are and how great Trump is.

Struggling with TPP> enjoy struggling with neo-Nazi's and abortion rights being taken away. Jill Stein is a moron too.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

43. The investigations/recounts are to collect the evidence - the flags indicating possible fraud are

there. Prosecuting electronic fraud has a certain methodology to it which I hope the attys/ electronic fraud & computer security experts whove been working on this stuff since 2004 will be effective... that s my hope anyway.... would nto be good to go off half cocked.

So, do you not believe the flags are there - or do you believe we should just ignore it and operate from the assumption that all is well? Even if it didnt swing election - wouldnt you rather know that there was - or wasnt -tampering?

[Generator]

61. God I loathe that fucking phrase

It is what it is. Tell that to some Jewish person staring at a swastika. I could show many more examples. But why? Who cares. It is what it is. A right wing coup. A worthless media. A destroyed America.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

42. One might ask WHY AAs didnt show up - what was true impact of voter suppression in these

states - onerous ID requirements, vast nos. of people with common aftrican american names living in AA neighborhoods removed from registrations for no other reason than they had similar (not same) name to someone else in another state.

You know why Trump was going on about "people voting multiple times"? He was referring to Crosscheck voter purge (look it up.)

The true impact of all that has yet to be ascertained, and I propose we stop the blame game until we know all the FACTS.

Do you know that the Green party & libertarians ran the 2004 Ohio recount, that attys who have beenw orking on that ever since are involved.... and that Stein as a candidate does indeed have standing? Apparently not.
Sure have an opinion, but why are you stating things that arent true.

[Indydem]

44. Lots of speculation there.

There were no widespread reports of people, of any race, being turned away at the polls. To the contrary there were multiple reports of people voting or volunteering at predominantly AA polling places and finding them deserted.

Again, while Crosscheck may be an abomination, and a real threat to voting rights, it did not result in thousands of voters being turned away. There are no reports that voters were lined up to vote (as in 2004) by the thousands and were thus discouraged.

There is no "blame game" to be played here. That's the problem; you want to blame someone for an election loss. There are millions of people at all levels of the Democratic Party to blame. But you can't name one group or person. Doing so is just more grasping.

Standing will be determined by the courts. No candidate has automatic standing to request a recount unless the recount stands to change the outcome of the election. Any judge worth their salt could easily point out that there is no possible way that the election could swing in Stein's favor, and thus she has no standing.

You need to sit down and really and seriously reflect upon your life, our candidate, and what this loss means for the Democratic Party. These attempts to drum up an illusion of a stolen election are not helpful. No one, anywhere, is actually speculating there was vote tampering.

If you and the others are so interested in the integrity of the vote, why we're there no calls for recount or audit in 2008 or 2012? Because our guy won. Now that we are back to the losing side, people want audits, recounts, EC reform, and verified voting. It's transparent and sad.

I don't know where we go from here as a party, but where you and Jill Stein are trying to take us is definitely not it.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

47. Are you Indy using a generic "you" or are you talking specificallyto me Kashkakat? If the latter -

I would say its a both/and. We look at ALL factors, including....yes....the true impact of voter suppression. The research has not yet been done!!! Unregistered people would not necessarily be turned away, they would fill in provisional ballot that is not counted if voter does not provide documentation within certain period of time. That would certainly account for exit poll discrepancies, right? Your approach (apparently) of ignoring some pretty significant red flags is troubling and I hope doesnt represent the dem leadership.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/11/14/uw-researchers-study-voter-id-effect/93800466/

[JonLP24]

62. Bullshit finding them deserted

Voters in key states endured long lines, equipment failures

Tens of millions of Americans who descended on the polls Tuesday faced hours-long lines, sporadic equipment failures and confusion about polling places — but little of the violence or vigilantism that had been feared.

Problems cropped up in Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia and other key battleground states that would decide whether Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump wins the presidency. Most involved election administration issues that have plagued the polls for decades, however, rather than incidents of voter fraud or intimidation fueled by Trump's warning of a "rigged" election.
A coalition of more than 100 civil rights and voting rights groups running a national election protection hotline reported that 40% of its calls came from African American and Hispanic communities, a possible indication that minority voters were being targeted. The majority of complaints came from California, New York, Texas, Florida, Pennsylvania and North Carolina, with Florida seeing particularly high levels of voter misinformation.

“There is tremendous disruption at the polls today," said Wade Henderson, president of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights. "This election may be the most chaotic election … in the last 50 years.”

(Snip)

In Durham, N.C., electronic poll books that are used to check voter registration were down in the morning, forcing voters to wait longer and use paper back-up copies. The Southern Coalition for Social Justice filed a lawsuit in hopes of forcing the Durham County Board of Elections to keep polls open an additional 90 minutes. In the end, voting was extended by the state Board of Elections for up to an hour in eight precincts affected by the malfunctions.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday.com/story/93201770/

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

49. Was 2004 Ohio recount a scam? If Greens along w/attys & investigators whove been working on this

since 2004 werent the ones initiating this Id be inclined to agree with you. But they do have a track record, and the information found in the process and subsequent court maneuverings and findings throughout the past 12 years is all out there waiting to be read.... if y'all care to read it. That's the problem. Too many people not interested in looking at what is already there and what is already known.

If 2008/2012 evidence of possible tampering exists then it would have been UP TO ONE OF THE CANDIDATES to initiate a recount and investigation. Get real-Obama unlikely to do that.

I for one would have kept an open mind - it is said that the look on Dick Cheney's face when Ohio was called for Obama was evidence that Ohio was hacked in our favor. Could be! Anythings possible. But how does that negate what happens in the here and now?????

[Hortensis]

56. The Greens have standing. Ridiculous.

As for the black vote, why do people refuse to understand that at least half of all blacks (and Hispanics, etc.) are conservative by nature? If the GOP wasn't committed to kicking them in the teeth, politically engaged minorities would register heavily Republican or be pretend-but-really-Republican-independents. That's just the way it is. If the "need" to oppose the Democratic Party is the only thing holding the GOP together (it is), similarly, if the GOP disappeared, half of our Democratic "identity politics" voters would break away. The conservative half.

[madamvlb]

41. PA dropped many voters from rolls...

My friend didn't vote in the last presidential election. She lasted voted in 2008, owns her home and has never moved. Kathy went to vote at the firehouse and was told because she hasn't voted in awhile she had to re register and was unable to vote or vote by provisional ballot. It's really ridiculous. This is not isolated, it is widespread and we need to do something about it now before the midterms. Kris Kobach is an asshole.

[Indydem]

45. So no votes in 8 years?

Your "friend" sat out not only a critical presidential election, but failed to vote in two off-year elections that ended up giving control to the Republicans, and then reinforcing that control?

I've got news for you my friend, "Kathy" is no friend of yours or of America. She failed at the one essential duty she has- voting in every single election for Democratic candidates.

[cilla4progress]

51. Wouldn't it be true that if bad fraud were found

It could stall the inauguration and legitimize looking into other states? Esp. If it looks like Russia was involved?

[Indydem]

52. No. The election is over.

The votes are already certified by the SoS in each of these states (or will be soon).

The Trump campaign (and likely the governors of these states) are going to resist, in court, the effort to recount as unnecessary and wasteful. They will argue that Stein has no standing, and they will have a case. Those arguments will have to proceed through the courts. They have to succeed, or have a stay issued in their favor in the next 3 weeks, or the EC will meet and the whole thing is over anyway.

There is nothing that is going to legitimize looking for a needle in a haystack. Russia is just the latest player of convenience for those who think republicans can't win an election fairly. It was Diebold and Katherine Harris before. Now it's Putin.

We lost. It sucks. I still don't know what to make of it or how to move forward, but I'm not going to try to cope by forming conspiracy theories or grasping at straws.

[Hortensis]

54. Thanks for the input. As you say, it may not be

possible to install Hill even if she were elected (!), but it's critically important to start demanding an accurate count and fighting election fraud.

[msongs]

3. unlike the democratic party usa INC at least stein is trying something nt

[JTFrog]

6. We know what would happen if Hillary was out front on this. Having Stein do it instead

will keep the media from making a circus out of it.

[Lucinda]

11. Yep.

[Dream Girl]

12. Exactamundo!

[Raine1967]

14. Exactly. eom.

[emulatorloo]

19. Yes. I also believe Trump would arrest Hillary if she were leading this and the election results

didn't change after the recount.

[Indydem]

38. He's been very "magnanimous" about it.

It's a clever game:

"You keep your mouth shut about me, and I won't appoint a special prosecutor. Disappear."

[Augiedog]

4. One segment of the recall ballot counting will be the Waukesha county count. That is the most

Corrupt county in the state. For the state Supreme Court election involving justice Prosser the clerk accidentally found two bags full of ballotes "accidentally" misplaced. Oh, and by the way she didn't know how they managed to be opened when discovered. This resulted in Waukesha county reporting an almost 100% voter turnout. Of course Prosser won by use of these ballots. Nothing to see here , move along, just move along.

[Coyotl]

18. Bullshit.

You can lopk up that turnout rate for yourself. Waukesha voting was normal, Milwaukee's was wrong.



Don't fall for the big diversions on Fox News.

[Augiedog]

20. So you think the Waukesha county returns were on the up and up? Sad

[Coyotl]

22. So you don't know what they were.

But, you can look them up and find out, you know.

[JTFrog]

5. K&R!

[stopbush]

8. I'm afraid the only way the election gets flipped is if

massive fraud is discovered and at least 3-10 people who were involved in the fraud on the ground turn state's and rat out the masterminds who designed the fraud.

[bucolic_frolic]

10. It will be as elusive as the single bullet theory

and that was a coup d'etat too

[stopbush]

21. Bull. Oswald killed JFK.

By himself.

We don't need fantasy to fight real issues. The single bullet fact is supported by the science and forensics.

[Zen Democrat]

23. Just let it go. Oswald may have been involved or a patsy, but he wasn't the killer.

We now know that Oswald didn't fire the shot thanks to the advancement of time and technology. We'll never know who killed JFK, but it was someone/thing that had and still has sway over the media to bar any discussion of it. They acknowledge nothing learned after November 24, 1963. There was never an investigation, other than to threaten witnesses against coming forward. I remember the week after the assassination, ABC, CBS, and NBC weren't even talking about it. Stories about Jackie and the kids, the Johnson's adjusting, etc., never a word about any investigation at all. The Warren Report added not one jot or tittle to the FBI initial report. The Dallas Police announced the case "closed" the same hour as the execution of Oswald. Even I could convince a jury that Captain Will Fritz was in on the Oswald hit. We now have Fritz's notes released from his interrogation of Oswald, which Fritz testified he did not keep. He told the world that Oswald's guilt was a lead pipe cinch, but actually they had nothing. And they knew it. Something else was going on. The Dallas doctors all came out too and called the Bethesda autopsy a fraud. It's a new day in the investigation of who/what was behind the street execution of our martyred president. I hope you can adjust.

[stopbush]

24. Read Bugliosi's book.

Then get back to me.

The JFK CTs are as stupid as they are unscientific.

BTW - your post proves only that you have never bothered to read the Warren Commission Report.

[7962]

35. "We KNOW"??? No, We DONT "know". The evidence shows Oswald DID fire the gun,

HIS gun. Ever been to the site? Its tiny. The TV footage makes it look like an impossible shot, in reality its not that hard at all.
Your theories have been disproven time and again.

[Ligyron]

40. Yeah, I've been there and any person with just basic militray weapon training can see

it's a shot most could make. Looks completely different in person than the perspective one gets from available video. That is, given the the X on the street is where JFK was actually hit. Those trees are the biggest obstacle.

[Indydem]

46. Take away 60 years of growth.

Not an obstacle in 1963.

But it's a conspiracy!

[Ccarmona]

13. The Re-Count

Will include an audit. There hasn't been one. They need to see if the machines counting the paper ballots did an accurate job in doing so.

[Motley13]

9. OK, Obama will just have to stay on until this mess gets resolved

[mountain grammy]

25. Sadly, no, but thanks for the thought.

[loyalsister]

15. Then Trump will recount

and on and on it goes. Getting private groups involved in the vote counting with the intention to produce applied results is stupid. The full Bush vs. Gore ballot count was recounted with no intention of overturning results.

There are future elections (assuming we don't get into a dueling statisticians form of government with no president) to think about. But, some seem to think a stolen election is romantic, so damn the future!

[Coyotl]

17. Bullshit. There is a filing deadline for a recount, and then that count is official.

Trump can file for a recount in WI tomorrow just like any candidate. After tomorrow, too late.

[BainsBane]

28. That's not how it works

Republicans will have observers and lawyers at the recount Stein requested. Recounts are done by canvassing boards, not private citizens or groups. the point is to verify results.

[lonestarnot]

16. Two more deadlines on Monday.

[BainsBane]

26. I can't get my hopes up

I'm glad there will be a recount but I'm assuming it won't change the outcome.
I'm just starting to accept the election results.

[smirkymonkey]

55. I don't necessarily have hopes that the actual election results will change, but I do hope this is

the beginning of a change in the way our voting process goes in this country. I would like to see the electoral college abandoned, but what I would really like to see is an elimination of the hackable electronic voting machines and greater oversight at the polls to make sure that no groups of people are disenfranchised or discouraged from voting.

[Lotusflower70]

27. Kudos

I have to give it up to Jill Stein in this situation. She followed through on the fundraising. It's pretty amazing actually.

[UCmeNdc]

29. Seems like the MSN would provide more coverage

If for no other reason than to have more transparency. Explain the procedures and the pitfalls.

[byronius]

30. A common sense look at the data says two things:

1) Someone has done something utterly criminal and un-American and did not expect there to be any recount, and is now likely on the edge of panic;

2) We need to fix this problem forever or die.

If Trump had lost and was looking at similar but reversed data the recounts would have already happened, and I would have supported him in that effort.

We all have to know. There is nothing more important in a democracy than counting every vote fairly.

[iluvtennis]

31. Agreed. n/t

[Silver Gaia]

34. " There is nothing more important in a democracy than counting every vote fairly." Yes. THAT!

[brooklynite]

48. Explain how a recount will reveal this great conspiracy...

[byronius]

59. Maybe it won't. Maybe there's no conspiracy.

Maybe Trump won fair and square, and all the polls just didn't account for rural rage.

Maybe we're just bound for history's butcher block. Maybe it's all over for us, because of primate tribal memes going back thirty million years. Maybe we are that stupid as a culture, and maybe Darwin's about to speak.

Maybe a hand recount will reveal that the counting machines were -- incorrect.

If not, so be it. But it's the best thirty bucks I ever spent.

Mostly because within a few years that thirty bucks will probably not mean a thing, because money will no longer be worth the paper it's printed on. But right now -- it might mean everything.

I think it's interesting that any Democrat would want to stop the process, though. Or shame the people who funded it.

For my purposes -- I just want to know. And thirty bucks for my children's lives and fortunes -- cheap at the price.

[GP6971]

50. K & R

[EricMaundry]

53. Kick

[robbedvoter]

58. What makes you think it's a go?

https://twitter.com/WI_Elections/status/802231225360465920

[ucrdem]

60. It's official:

Wisconsin Elections
?@WI_Elections
The Commission has received the Stein and Del La Fuente recount petitions. Details and news release posted soon at http://elections.wi.gov .

https://twitter.com/WI_Elections/status/802264791737716736