My theory about Trump and Russia

[BainsBane]

He's badly in debt to Russian banks. Given his abysmal business credit rating (31), he was unable to get loans from US banks. He got them from Russia. Putin saw Trump's run for office as an opportunity and launched a covert operation to subvert the election in Trump's favor. Now that Trump has won, he's making one pro-Russian cabinet appointment after another and claiming the US intelligence agencies are lying about Russia's involvement in our elections.

It is possible that Trump's campaign or even Trump himself had active knowledge of Russian interference. It's hard to understand Trump's denials of US intel absent some involvement on his part.

There are reports about a server from Trump tower being in regular communication with a Russian bank. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/10/was_a_server_registered_to_the_trump_organization_communicating_with_russia.html
What was communicated through those servers? Were Trump aids on contact with the Russian government? Were they discussing the campaign, and did Russia give them information obtaining from hacking the Clinton campaign?

I don't know the answers to these questions, but my guess is that the impetus of the relationship between Trump and Putin is financial. He's badly in debt to Russia, and that gives Putin leverage over him. Putin may even have instructed the banks to give the loans in order to cultivate dependency.

That is why the investigation into the Russian covert action needs to be accompanied by a thorough review of Trump's finances to undercover vulnerabilities for our nation.

[annabanana]

1. This really does make all this nightmare hang together.

You may have hit on it.

[NightWatcher]

2. And investigate how much trump's people knew and worked with the Russians

I think that there's a ton of collusion between the two. I think it's treason that a 3rd grader could understand.

[JustAnotherGen]

3. It's a good one

It's been my thought since early summer of this year.

[get the red out]

5. Me too!

[Cracklin Charlie]

4. I think Shitler's planning to pay his debts

By letting Putin and Exxon split up the oil in the Arctic.

[lagomorph777]

18. Bingo. Putin did the takeover so he could execute the $500 billion deal he made with Tillerson.

Tillerson is a Putin appointee, as are the rest.

[Mr. Evil]

65. I was thinking the very same thing.

Why else would Tillerson be involved in rasPutin/Trump's little circle jerk?

[octoberlib]

6. As evidenced by his actions

with Erdogan and Turkey, I think this is spot on. Trump can't or won't separate his business affairs from US foreign policy.

[Baitball Blogger]

7. Trump may indeed become the richest president to feel more comfortable living abroad

after his presidency. And I'm not talking about fearing for his life. I think it will be far more satisfying to have him around for the occasional egg, shoe or rotten tomato.

[madokie]

8. One can hope

that all this leads ultimately to a jail cell for tRump.

Yes a guy can dream

[BainsBane]

13. Reagan won the Cold War

Only for the GOP to surrender three decades later.

[blue neen]

26. Excellent point.

I really disliked Ronald Reagan, but he'd never think of colluding with the Russians like Trump and McConnell.

[NewJeffCT]

34. agreed

Reagan was an awful president, but the thought that Russians are in bed with Trump and others in his administration must have him spinning in his grave.

[eggplant]

46. Reagan didn't win the cold war.

Reagan happened to be in office when the USSR collapsed. They were well on their way to that inevitable conclusion long before Reagan.

[BainsBane]

47. I get that

I was talking to a Republican who was mocking concern about Russia.

Though Reagan's huge defense spending did prompt them to overextend themselves and thereby accelerate their demise.

[eggplant]

64. Yes, Star Wars sped things up, to be sure.

But it wasn't purely about money (although the lack of money in the USSR meant that the people were grumpier and grumpier). I think that the final straw was just some people in East Germany who said "fuck it, enough already" and got a crowbar. And that was that. It was totally inevitable, but nobody was able to predict it. Even just a few weeks before, the idea wasn't taken seriously by anyone.

Clearly, Star Wars ran them out of hard currency sooner, but even if that hadn't happened, the people were teetering on revolution anyway.

(I missed the troll post, so I didn't see that you were commenting on that. My bad.)

[guillaumeb]

10. Recommended. Interesting analysis.

And while this speculation is going on, the corporate media says nothing about cross check, voter suppression, broken balloting machines, closed polling places, and many of the other tactics regularly used to suppress and subvert the actual vote.

The corporate media is far too invested in promoting the myth of free and fair elections to examine the reality.

[BainsBane]

11. Those are serious, serious problems

and I believe the primary factor in the GE result.

[guillaumeb]

14. Agreed. But "reality" for many people is what they see and hear.

And in a country where nearly all of the media is owned by the 1%, the concerns discussed here will only be echoed in the alternative media. An alternative media that simply cannot compete for sheer visibility with the corporate media.

And what is troubling, but perhaps not surprising, is that President Obama could be speaking out but chooses to not speak. Perhaps he rationalizes it as promoting stability in the country, but no matter his rationale, what we are experiencing is a bloodless coup. No troops in the streets, except perhaps for the Inauguration, but a coup nonetheless because laws and procedures have been subverted.

And given GOP control at the state level, now soon to be coupled with GOP control of all three branches of the Federal Government, is the US an effective one party country?

[BainsBane]

15. However, we learned in this election that many don't

get their news from the MSM but rather far right wing and fake news sites that completely fabricate stories. If people at least watched the news networks, they would know, for example, that unemployment did not rise under Obama. The problem has gone beyond corporate control of the media to the way voters consume and understand information.

[guillaumeb]

38. Personally I put most of the MSM in with the fake news sites.

Not quite as outrageous, but what the media chooses to cover, what it chooses to declare news is just as important as how it covers the news.

And agreed, voters seem to choose what supports their pre-conceived world view. But, on just unemployment, even though the number of unemployed went down, the number of living wage jobs did not rise. Far too much of the increase went to service sector jobs. So this could also be a question of how people approached the issue of employment.

[BainsBane]

43. I think that's a dangerous approach

That too many use to believe whatever they find convenient. I think respected print news sources are far more credible. Cable tv is entertainment and a lot of noise, with occasional information.
I think we have a serious problem in that people only want to hear news that reinforces their views and reject the rest. It is that which provides the opening for fake news and is why so many Americans are so misinformed. They are all not alike, and to compare the Post, NPR or CNN with some Macedonian teenager inventing stories is a dangerous false equivalecy. Different MSM news sources have different approaches and degrees of credibility, but they are not fake.

[guillaumeb]

53. I agree, in part.

What I meant by the mass media choosing is that any media source cannot literally report everything that happens. But in choosing what to cover, and what to emphasize by that coverage, the media can influence its consumers.

When the media chooses to treat GOP lies as simply another point of view, that gives credibility to the lies. Just one example is birtherism, a complete lie, but the media allowed it to have credibility by treating it as a legitimate question.

In my area, the Chicago Tribune is the largest print outlet. Their coverage of the current GOP Governor is very selective and just happens to support what the Governor calls his reform agenda. His reform agenda is Sam Brownback's agenda in Kansas, and we know how that is working out, but the Tribune continues to frame the debate.

[BainsBane]

54. Absolutely

But that is quite a different thing from making up a story about a pizza parlor pedophile ring. It's very common for people who believe wildly false stories to make the claims that the MSM is the real fake news. I just caution you to be careful not to feed into that post-truth worldview.

The goal should be for people to learn to read critically, not based on what they want to hear but on evidence.

[guillaumeb]

55. And read a variety of sources.

I read the Chicago Tribune, a very right wing paper, but I read a variety of magazines online and in print. Unfortunately too many people get their news from the television and radio.

[SHRED]

16. It's always about finances with Don the Con.

[KittyWampus]

17. Under this all is Bannon & White Supremacists. Republicans used Southern Strategy as dog whistle

In other words, they used racism but not so overtly.

Now, with Bannon, they've gone Full Monty with white supremacists. And that's a link to Russia.

Russia and Putin are seen amongst the White Supremacists in America, Europe and Russia as a hero fighting for white power.

You will find that Trump and Republicans are now going to push Putin as an ALLY.

White Christian people against Muslim brown people.

It plays perfectly into the FOX Zombies hatred of Muslims.

Chris Matthews said last night Obama failed in Syria. Maybe Tillerson being a Putin crony is a GOOD thing and Tillerson can work with fixing the problem in Syria. Matthews is the canary in the coal mine within the Beltway Pundit class.

But we know that Putin helped CREATE to a large extent the problem in Syria.

Putin wants the arctic drilling sanctions gone, with Trump/Tillerson they are gone.

They don't care if Russia takes over Muslim countries, the Baltic or Poland.

[Wounded Bear]

19. Been thinking this all along...

and I'm not sure there is any daylight between Russian "banks" and the Russian criminal syndicate.

Trump is likely a wholly owned subsidiary of Putin Russia, Inc.

[BainsBane]

68. I suspect you're right

On both counts.

[mopinko]

20. i think it is much deeper.

personally, i think that putin turned him long ago.
how long has paul manafort lived in drumph tower? i think it all comes back to him.
i not only think there was russian interference from the start, i think putin has had his hand up his shirt, he may or maynot know/acknowledge that. manafort blew up his skirt in the first place. probably rubbed the obama remarks in a bit.

and i think this goes way deeper than money. i think that they have something on him, probably caught him in a honey trap w an underage girl.
i think where the money argument might fail, blackmail will not.
he is a flat out agent, witting or otherwise, and they flat out sent him.
putin would not stick his neck out this far on hopes. he owns him already.

as far as i am concerned the only question is who was in on it. if not cheeto, his kids.

[BainsBane]

21. It's possible

I just wish we could have confidence in congress to uncover everything.

[ymetca]

35. From Pussy Riot to Pussy Grabber

The question remains why is our government allowing this to happen?

Everything since the pseudo-election of 'W' is what I like to refer to as The Empire Strikes Back. And that Empire is Big Oil. You might as well put Trump in a Vader suit, and Putin in a hooded cape...

"Feel the power of the Dark Side!"

[AlexSFCA]

22. paradigm shift

the issue is that trump views putin as key ally and role model even. He is rapidly changing attitudes towards putin among his voter base and republicans alike. This is an assault against liberal democracies worldwide. I don't beleive gop cares, even mccain's resistance seems half hearted at best.

[Cosmocat]

27. This points out the complete absurdity of the modern republican party

In split second, the party completely reversed its long standing disregard for Russia to end up fully embracing it.

The entire geopolitical landscap was altered significantly on November 8th.

[AlexSFCA]

33. precisely

remember, the paradigm shift had occurred just before the republican convention when trump fought to remove the condemnation of crimea annexation from GOP platform. Republican leaders caved in. He then campaigned and got elected while praising putin. No new info came since election - the hack occured before and the details were known in the senate already, just not publicly.

It's also not news that many republicans (and their voters) have been secretly and sometimes publicly obsessed with putin saying that he is a strong leader with high approval ratings. They do want this type of authoritarian and they specifically voted for it. Again, nothing really new since the election day. All of this had already been discussed and predicted long before Nov. 8.

[Cosmocat]

48. Yep

Just like the lies that led to Iraq, there is nothing coming to light now that was not blatantly obvious LONG before election day.

[LakeArenal]

23. If the situation was reversed....

and it was Clinton under this cloud, you theory would become fact and all the media would be headlining the story as "News".

[JHan]

25. definitely. double standards and false equivocations were the theme of this election cycle.

[JHan]

24. Makes me wonder if we'll ever see his tax returns.

[JustAnotherGen]

28. Only if a true blue American

Hacks something to get them. Or an IRS agent says "Fuck it - this is the right thing to do".

[WhiteTara]

29. He's also heavily in debt to the Chinese

and I think this is a power play between Russia and China

[McKim]

44. We are the battleground in a proxy war?

So we are the battleground of a proxy war between China and Russia?

[WhiteTara]

51. We'll see.

[brer cat]

30. I agree, Bains.

It is all about the $$$ with donald. He would never have undertaken the run for president unless he saw bigly financial gains.

[underpants]

31. That's been the obvious explanation since he wouldn't release his tax returns

The Slate article is really interesting.

[Generator]

32. That plus some barely legal teen action

Oh Putin has Donny by the short hairs bigly.

[33taw]

36. George Will tried to warn of this.

I wish the media would have done some investigative journalism and aided in tracking this down last winter. Instead they sensationalized everything he said for ratings.

[BainsBane]

52. I didn't see Will's comments

Can you give me more info so I can find them?

[33taw]

62. It was the "oligarchs" comment

http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/289241-george-will-raises-possible-trump-link-to-russian-oligarchs

[Sunlei]

37. Republicans and Russia.

[ffr]

40. Russian loving Republicans indeed!

Party over country is their motto.

[Sunlei]

42. Leadership Republicans don't seem to mind at all, our government stuff is hacked & only 'leaked'

to HELP only Republicans.

[ffr]

39. Until established, that would be a hypothesis.

I believe your hypothesis is on the right track though. Thought much the same all along.

The election, if validated, will have saved Donald's failing brand. Should a miracle happen and he should someone not take the oath of office, his brand would have been finished.

[NewJeffCT]

41. I don't think Trump is reliable enough to be a Russian agent

I think some of the people around him definitely are working for Putin. And, these people around Trump know how to flatter him and get him to do what they want... maybe they've told him that good things will happen (i.e., a Trump resort on the Black Sea...) if he does certain things.

[Cosmocat]

50. Right - he is the ultimate "useful idiot"

for them ...

[mnhtnbb]

45. Follow the money.

[Joe941]

49. interesting...

[blitzburgh55]

56. And there's Manafort

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amp/fbi-making-inquiry-ex-trump-campaign-manager-s-foreign-ties-n675881

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/30/torture-lobbyist-paul-manafort-still-advising-donald-trump-on-cabinet-picks.html

[BainsBane]

57. And Roger Stone

Plus the other gut who was fired but is now in Russia at Trump's behest.

[Liberal In Red State]

58. I have been screaming this for months!!! They always asked him what business he had

in Russia. The question should have been how in debt are you to the Russian Oligarchs! Even George Will questioned it as the reason why he never released his taxes. Why did Hillary, the DNC and every GOP candidate not hammer away at this - who does he owe money to and what control do they have over him!!!!! Why oh why - it was a simple question and neither the presss or any party pushed to see his taxes! Like Capote - they got him through his taxes not for the criminal conduct he was accused of! I believe it is all there hidden in plain sight!

[Bear Creek]

59. If true

He would not be eligible for a security clearance.

[spanone]

60. if this were turned around, republicans would cancel Christmas to hold hearings from now till....

inauguration day....and then for the next four years non-stop.

[BainsBane]

61. No question

And their excuses now prove that they are willing to sacrifice national security for partisan purposes.

[smirkymonkey]

63. I think you are on to something.

I hope so. I would love to see Trump try to screw them out of what he owes them and suffer the consequences.

[humbled_opinion]

66. Seems like our Intel folks

Would have been able to figure all that out covertly and bring it to the attention of the President before the election, these things do not happen in a vacuum. Maybe a bit too tin foil hat.

[thegoose]

67. This is totally dead-on

Don the Con is just one big orange hustle who certainly doesn't give a shit about anyone except his ludicrously pumped-up self. Does anyone really think he doesn't care who lives or dies as he blows Pooty for money? Plus, he can rape the U.S. treasury in the process. A disease of a man.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

69. Rec'd. That's been my main suspicion as well.

Meanwhile, Putin gets a POTUS he believes that he can manipulate on matters such as NATO allies.

It's a mistake because Trump's biographers have described his disloyalty, turning on people who no longer serve his desires. I think it could turn ugly very fast.

[SunSeeker]

70. Nixon has his plumbers; Trump had Putin. nt

[marcopolo63]

71. And the Reich-Wing is in in it...

Can you just see President Pence and his puppet VP Paul Ryan? Trump will be impeached, it's just a matter of time. The Republican minority's hegemony is just beginning, and this is going to be a long run of a crime syndicate running our country...

[BainsBane]

72. I wouldn't be heartbroken if he is

He's already done a lot to deserve it.