Would you personally be willing to take up arms to prevent red states from seceding?

[TheFrenchRazor]

This is not flame bait, i would really like serious, considered responses to this question. Reason i ask is that it appears obvious that most dems here do not support any blue state secession, and quite a few people believe it would result in civil war. To me, this is hard to understand, because i couldn't care less if some red states wanted to secede; i would say, "fine, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out." i most certainly would not be willing to go to war to stop them.

Many people make reference to our civil war, as if it would be a guaranteed repeat of that, but it seems possible that given this past experience, people might be less willing to go to war over this again. i don't know, that's why i'm asking. i do realize of course that any result obtained here will have to multiplied by a certain factor, given conservatives greater propensity to get involved in pointless wars, especially if they don't have to actually fight themselves.

don't really want this to turn into a thread on the pros and cons of secession, because we have plenty of those already.

i may not be able to address responses to this thread right away, but i will as soon as possible.

43 votes, 3 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	yes, i would personally be willing to fight to stop red states from leaving.
	1 (2%)
	no, i would not personally be willing to fight, but i would support sending the military to stop them.
	1 (2%)
	i would support letting them go peacefully, and try to establish good relations with their new country.
	17 (40%)
	i would support letting them go peacefully, but would want heavy sanctions imposed.
	20 (47%)
	other (please specify).
	4 (9%)
	3 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[unblock]

1. they're our fellow americans and they're caught in the grip of a horrid disease.

we need to help them. letting them go form their own country would destroy us all.

keep in mind the secession doesn't mean they vanish from all consideration. they remain an enormous trading partner with a huge military and open borders right next to us. not good, especially when the hyper-partisan propaganda turns to painting us as simply the enemy.

[lunatica]

53. How would it destroy us all?

Our country would look quite different, but it wouldn't destroy us. I live in California which can be a country in itself. Maybe we could flourish without the Red States. I suspect we could do very well without paying for poorly run States to keep them affloat.

[unblock]

58. See post 57. They don't vanish.

[Abouttime]

54. Let em go..

You really think we'd be worse off without states like Texas or Oklahoma?
How would the loss of Iowa, Nebraska or Kansas bother the average Californian?
They need us a lot more than we need them!

[unblock]

57. They've got food, oil, guns, and a sense of entitlement.

They would jack up prices, charge a ton to truck through their territory, and loot by force in all likelihood.

What makes you think they'd be good neighbors and quietly leave us alone? Having purged any liberal counterbalance, they'd double down on the asshole factor.

[lunatica]

62. they'll quickly fall into a dystopia

and would have to ask us for help. As it is now they just get money from the Federal government, which comes from our taxes.

[unblock]

63. they wouldn't ask. they'd take. or extort.

[lunatica]

64. So we build a wall

You know Liberals have guns too.

[unblock]

65. we'd need a lot more if things turn ugly.

and at this point it won't take much to ignite that powder keg.

[TheFrenchRazor]

71. that is true, but i wouldn't underestimate the resources and resolve of the blue staters, plus, depe

depending on the circumstances, more other countries might come to our aid than theirs.

[TheFrenchRazor]

70. that's a possibility, they might use (blue) secessation as an excuse to wage all-out war and/or esta

establish martial law in any blue states that might secede. here's where one can not really compare what WE would do if they seceded and the reverse; as i expected, the poll shows that most of us would not be willing to go to war to stop a red state from leaving, but you never know what THEY might do in the opposite situation. after this election, and seeing the rush to war after 9/11, i wouldn't put any psychopathy beyond them.

[oneshooter]

72. Remenber the angst when ONE pipeline from Texas want down?

Fuel prices increased, people were unable to refuel their cars.

Imagine what would happen if all 15 pipeline from Texas to the north East went down. As in valves closed and locked.

This incudes natural gas, gasoline, diesel, and heating oil.

[Angry Dragon]

2. but they have to take Trump with them

[BlueMTexpat]

52. This!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. I would hold car washes to pay for their leaving./nt

[eleny]

4. I support their peacefully seceding and then patiently wait for them to come groveling back

Too many of them can't make it on their own economically.

Anyhow, you asked and that's my fantasy choice.

[TheFrenchRazor]

18. i think there is plenty of truth in that; they would become a 3rd world country, with the super-rich

living in gated communities, with private security forces to keep the starving masses from over-running them. young people would probably leave for more liberal places, so they would have to institute a forced baby quota for the young women who remain, in order to keep themselves from dying out. it would be like a giant, fundie religious cult. ha ha ok, i'm joking a little, but i think there's some truth in it.

[eleny]

24. I'll repeat what I said in another thread...

"South Carolina would become Namibia economically."

They just can't do it on their own.

[bigbrother05]

60. You just described the last 20 years in most of the red states

so there would be little change for them except to lose the tax dollars from the blue states. Restrictive immigration and tariffs would cause more harm than anything else.

They don't have a forced baby quota unless you count minimal sex ed and restricted choice. That constitutes forced, but no particular quota and generally doesn't apply to anyone with resources to travel for health care.

[Madam45for2923]

5. Putin's favorite word: secession! Anything that keeps other on their toes!! He eats it up/

[uponit7771]

6. OTHER: Ask me in about 6 months.... I'm not too good right now on that answer

[Vinca]

7. Of course not. I'd be happy to pack their bags for them.

[TheFrenchRazor]

17. i'm with you. nt

[TexasProgresive]

8. Rather a moot point doncha think?

Why would they secede if they are in control of the whole shebang?

[TheFrenchRazor]

16. yes, right now, but i am testing the hypothesis that reds would go to war to stop US from seceding.

[Missn-Hitch]

76. Nah. Just negotiate a peaceful divorce. Tell them to imagine a country without liberals.

They can: Pray every hour in schools. Put any kind of religious display on public property. There won't be any taxes or IRS. They can switch to the gold std. No more homosexuals, black/brown people, atheists....

Hell - they should be jumping at the opportunity.

I am all for it.

[pnwest]

9. Other: Let them go peacefully, and THEN build the fucking wall.

yes, it is true they are in the grip of a horrible disease - but they do not WANT to be cured of it! Maybe 5% of them can be reached and rehabilitated. But I firmly believe the divide between our two ideologies is insurmountable. They will NEVER see the good in what we're trying to do, in helping each other, lifting others up - and we will NEVER be able to make the majority of them understand how badly brainwashed they are, how horribly misinformed. I have daydreamed of how wonderfully peaceful it would be for BOTH sides to just not have to deal with the other anymore. Let them secede, leave the border open for two years to give everyone who wants to move to the other side time to do so, and then slam the fucking door shut.

Imagine how peaceful and calm and uplifting and eco-minded and INSURED our lives would be.

[Binkie The Clown]

10. This! n/t

[TheFrenchRazor]

15. agreed; i think after a few generations when they see what a 3rd world country they're

becoming, they will have a population exodus, especially among the younger people. they will become so impoverished that they will cease to be a nation of any consequence, and they won't have anyone to blame but themselves.

[heaven05]

11. Well it seems

the reds and the blues, the racists and progressives, PoC and whites who are bent on making ameriKKKa great again are headed for some type of confrontation. PoC are not wanted and are truly hated and feared by the trumpfuhrer base, immigrants and Latinos are somewhere in the middle of black and white peoples.....we got a mess brewing and the slow drift toward boil over will happen and is already ongoing.....trumpfuhrer let this evil genie out and it ain't going back in the bottle. But that's what his base of ugly, ugly ameriKKKans wants. If they shoot, I shoot. Purely defensive, but I've been in the streets they are bold and arrogant and will make a mistake with someone, somewhere and then it WILL BE ON! Guaranteed. People they hate are angry also and ain't going to the hanging tree meekly.

[TheFrenchRazor]

22. the country's been on that edge for along time, but it seems like the will of the majority is now be

being thwarted by the electoral college, and let's just say, sketchy elections, so people are not even able to take steps to improve the situations you mention.

[Chasstev365]

12. Let them go and then

BUILD THE WALL! BUILD THE WALL!

[MarvinGardens]

13. I would let them leave peacefully

If a supermajority of their citizens voted to leave. At least three-fourths.

[Crunchy Frog]

14. I'd be happy be happy to see them go.

We should have let the Confederacy go 150+ Years ago. This country wouldn't be having these problems, and they've never considered themselves to be real Americans since then. I don't think it would be nearly as easy to divide the country now as it would have been then. I'm not sure it will be possible to hold the country together as a unified republic either.

A new Civil War would be nothing like the last one, as we lack the simple geographic boundaries that we had back then. There would also likely be lots of freelance fighters, rather than organized opposing milititaries.

[TheFrenchRazor]

20. true; would be nice if canada could combine with the west coast and the north eastern states.

they probably wouldn't want to have us, though. haha.

[Ellen Forradalom]

32. Quebec would have none of it.

Too many English speakers. It would upset the delicate compromise the two language communities have worked out.

[TheFrenchRazor]

19. i am encouraged by the responses, but of course since the reds are more war-loving, they would

probably be more likely to use the military to stop blue states from seceding. however, if a large state such as california or NY were to try seceding, they may see it as a great opportunity to increase their control over the remaining states, so they may just be willing to let it go.

[ileus]

21. I thought the blue states were wanting to split now.

What's this red state BS? They got their way for a while at least.


Why would the Red or Blue states take up arms in this day and time when it's obvious we're not so united any longer. Why not turn the US into another Europe?

[TheFrenchRazor]

27. i'm just trying to get an idea of how many people would be willing to fight to stop any state from s

seceding.

[briv1016]

23. I'd be partying my ******* *** off.

I'd also let any blue state republicans that wanted to leave, go, and welcome any red state refugees that wanted to come over. It's fun to dream.

[TheFrenchRazor]

28. there would no doubt be some migration both ways, but it could be done peacefully. nt

[Missn-Hitch]

78. This can be negotiated. Free to move about for 2 years. Then each country

negotiates treaties. Then immigration laws are established by each entity.

I am certain we will whip them in every category so I suspect there will be more of them trying to get into our side. I mean, hell. We will have Google, Facebook, Apple, Space X. They will have Chick-fil-a and Hobby Lobby.

Health care and science? Forget about it.

My mouth is watering.

[Retrograde]

25. The last time states seceded

the remaining Congress was able to pass infrastructure improvements such as funding the transcontinental railroad and establishing land-grant colleges - not to mention passing the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments. I say if they want to go we should throw a Bon Voyage party.

[raging moderate]

26. good riddance.

Help their designated victims escape, and leave the rest of them to their fate.

[Hoyt]

29. It's a ridiculous idea. If some think jobs, wages, Social Security, health care, etc., aren't good

enough now, wait and see what it is like if we start toward balkanization. Our currency, borrowing ability, distribution of food and products, education and health systems, etc., would be set back a century if not more, not to mention having to defend the border against a bunch of armed militia types.

[Missn-Hitch]

79. Buzzkill. LOL!

It's still fun thinking about it.

[radical noodle]

30. Totally red states?

Goodbye. Purple states in the south, like Florida (my home), I would fight like hell to stay in the US.

[pipi_k]

31. Hey, let 'em

do what they're going to do, wish them well, see ya, goodbye, lots of luck because they'll probably need it.

[Hekate]

33. I object to this topic being raised in GD. Fantasies about civil war in America -- no thanks.

It would not be up to individuals and their flintlock rifles, regardless. We have a robust Defense Department and each state has a National Guard, all sworn to uphold the Constitution. Congress could reinstate the draft at will, as well.

[TheFrenchRazor]

40. please, there is no "fantasy of civil war;" and the poll results support my sense that most people

would not be willing to go to war to stop a state from seceding. but hey, with people like you to whip everybody up into a war fever, who knows?

[kysrsoze]

34. Let them go... please. Watch them tank while blue states prosper.

[Equinox Moon]

35. Republicans have already created a new country

This is no longer the "United" states of america. I feel like I live in another country and I did not move. That feeling and experience is going to intensify. The very radical right and radical trumpland is creating a new country.

Splitting up the states will be a good idea. No need for warfare with arms. Political, social and economic warfare is at hand. I just want everyone to have the option of moving to the country of choice. What a nightmare if progressives were stuck in the new radical right land to be their slaves.

[TheFrenchRazor]

42. agreed; the US is many times the size it was originally; i think that break up is inevitable,

and it would probably be better for most people. yes, there would be some people who would be stuck without the ability to move for financial or family reasons, but that happens all the time anyway. i think the new countries would accept people from the other states, especially if they are moving there for political reasons.

[Wednesdays]

36. Why would they want to leave? They own everything.

And I mean everything. The presidency. Both houses. Soon the whole judicial branch. The media. Their supporters own eighty percent of the fucking GDP. Again I ask, why would they want to leave?

[TheFrenchRazor]

41. i am just trying to get a sense of whether people here would be willing to fight to stop a red

red state from seceding, in order to get an idea of whether repugs would fight to stop a blue state from leaving. of course the numbers will not be exactly the same, but i was just trying to get some kind of baseline figure.

[Equinox Moon]

45. Yes, the reds have it all (temporarily)

I think if there is any seceding it will be a red state from the red united states. It is an aggressive act and that is the MO of republicans.

The seceding will be done by republicans and the dems will not stop them. Texas may be the first to go.

[Nay]

37. I'd take up arms to make sure they didn't change their mind and try to stay. nt

[TheFrenchRazor]

67. heh heh. nt

[Kaleva]

38. States change over time.

California used to be Republican territory while the South voted Dem no matter who the party nominee was. There's not going to be any state seceding nor is there going to be a civil war.

[RealityChik]

39. OTHER: Better them than us!

America: Love it or leave it, right?

[raccoon]

43. You forgot the option "Hell no." nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. The deep red states could never make it as individual entities.

Imagine Mississippi or Idaho as their own nations. The very thought is preposterous !!!

[LanternWaste]

46. It won't be repeat of the Civil War because it simply will not happen

It won't be repeat of the Civil War because it simply will not happen. I will not fight for a hypothetical scenario played out in the imagination. Outside of the occasional (and very high) evening of gaming around the table with friends, I won't fight for the Rebellion or Mordor.

There's either a particular lack of rational thought in presenting secession as a practical possibility, or merely the conversations regarding too many post-apocalyptic, hack-authored sci-fi novels have become taken more seriously than orcs and spacemen should in fact, be taken.

[haele]

47. Won't happen. They're too tied economically to the blue sections within their own states.

The current "Red States" are only able to maintain their economic viability through their condensed blue urban areas (which are often abused terribly by the rural interests claiming to be the "real citizens" or the "good, godly citizens&quot , or through subsidies by the blue states.
They talk a good game to whip up their constituents, but when the conspirators gather together to work out how they will run things once they secede, the meeting usually ends up in a whimpering scrapping of the supposedly glorious plan.

They'd rather build their echo-chamber compounds, pretending to be "self sustaining" while they live off subsidies and tax revenue made on the backs of normal people who actually work hard for a living. Bring in a few illegals to teach their poor cousins how to do that hard husbandry and farming work, along with the resource gathering and light manufacturing needed to keep the compound going. They'll go out hunting, bloviating, and playing keyboard warrior - that's the hard work that makes them leaders!
And they can bad-mouth "elites" and city folk while they do so.

Haele

[hunter]

48. They've already seceded and now they are irrelevant; trapped in a stagnant 20th century fantasy.

Human civilization is now global and they've been left behind.

It's sad, mostly.

[Starry Messenger]

49. They'd just ally with Russia and we'd have a proxy war.

No thanks. Breaking up the union leaves us open to all sorts of weird shit with international issues.

[TheFrenchRazor]

85. i'm not sure russia actually supports repugs, or just sees them as the weak link to sew division

and disfunctionality here. i think in an actual civil war, they would probably play both sides.

[Maru Kitteh]

50. Well, first of all I would have to move (please don't bomb me) to a blue state

and then I would advocate peaceful separation and amicable relations.

We would be like my racist (but doesn't think she is a racist) MIL and me. It would just be a larger scale of mutual detente.

[BlueMTexpat]

51. Other.

I WANT blue states to secede. We'll do fine without the "reds."

I would like a special amnesty for any who voted for Hillary and who wish to emigrate from a red state to a blue state before we go.

[TheFrenchRazor]

68. word. nt

[oneshooter]

73. How would they be able to proove how they voted? n/t

[BlueMTexpat]

74. Just ask them ...

if they cannot answer coherently or with any logic, it will be clear that they didn't.

Of course, the situation won't arise because the true "reds" won't want to be with the "socialist lefties."

[Siwsan]

55. Let them go and prepare to watch (from a distance) a real life 'Lord of the Flies'.

In short time they would divide into factions and start turning on each other. Install cameras and it could rival that rumored no-holds-barred Russian reality tv show 'Game2: Winter'.

[TheFrenchRazor]

69. i think that's exactly what would happen, and they wouldn't have anyone to blame but themselves. nt

[HoneyBadger]

56. Given one would be the nuclear power and one would not

There would be no fight

[TheFrenchRazor]

83. insane, but nuking your neighbors could have some "blowback," literally and figuratively. nt

[MFM008]

59. I wish we were like

Those puzzles where the states break apart......

[OregonBlue]

61. I would personally be willing to pay them to get them to go.

[bravenak]

66. I would say

BYE FELICIA!

[RANGER295]

75. not a good idea

Given the fact that the reds make up the majority of the gun owners I think the blues would be seriously outgunned. Also most of the military people I know would side with the reds. I think you would see wide spread desertion from the military and law enforcement ranks and these people going to support the reds. I think for either of us to make a move to succeed would be stupid. Look at a geographical election map. Most of the country is red geographically. It is mostly the big cities that and densely populated states that are blue. The red states (with the exception of my home state of California) grow most of the food and fiber crops. We would find a situation where the red states control most of the agricultural production. Also, how would we handle being split up? Most of the blue states are on the two coasts and would be split by a belt of red. So... red states have most of the guns/more red gun owners, .mil types tend to support red, most ag production would be red, and a couple thousand miles of red between the blue states = I do not think it would be a good idea so I would try to stop it before it went to a war.

[TheFrenchRazor]

81. there are definitely some obstacles IF they were decide to go to war, but 1. i'm not sure if they

would, (witness the poll results here), and 2. i think a lot of foreign governments would support the blue seceders, even if it was covertly. plus, i wouldn't underestimate the resolve of liberals, or the incompetence of conservatives.

[Adrahil]

87. In my experience, most of these "reds" ....

Sure do talk a lot of shit, but most are cowards. And a lot those who own guns barely ever shoot them, and are lousy with them when they do. Being a Fudd who shoots at a deer a couple times a year doen't make anyome a bad ass.

[WhiteTara]

77. And I'd move out. I have my

passport so I'd move to a blue state (do we have more than 5 left? Or to another nation.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

80. Hummm. Could be a couple of up sides for SE Arizona.

The majority of Arizona is red and has nasty opinions of us here in the SE. And trust me, feelings are mutual.
We have good relations with our neighbor to the south ..
Then again Tucson has DM....

So push that button red boys!

[Crunchy Frog]

82. I would sacrifice my actual (anatatomical) arms

To get rid of them.

[TheFrenchRazor]

84. heh heh, yeah, i'm torn on whether the repugs would have the same reaction, or whether they would

use secession as an excuse to go ballistic on all blue states.

[eniwetok]

86. If the demands of the seceding state are reasonable... why would we not negotiate? n/t

[TheFrenchRazor]

93. i absolutely agree; i think people are so afraid of another Civil War, they won't even consider the

possibility of secession. that's kind of why i ran the poll; because i wanted to see how many people (here, at least) would actually be willing to go to war to stop a state from seceding.

[BainsBane]

88. I'd hold the door open as they leave.

They can take their fascist president with them.

[baldguy]

90. +1000

[VOX]

89. Blue states are the money-makers; most Red states are parasites.

The Red states NEED Blue states to generate adequate revenue in the context of a United States: New York/NJ/Eastern Seaboard/Illinois/West Coast -- all trade centers with dense population, and home to major industries, such as Silicon Valley and the entertainment business; Wall Street (for better or worse), etc.

If anything, the Reds will fight against a secession of the Blues -- they need the income and resources.

[TheFrenchRazor]

94. hey, one southerner can lick 10 Yankees!! haha; that's what they thought, but yeah, they need us

as much (or more) than we need them.

[cynatnite]

91. Personally, I think secession is stupid talk...

Most people don't support it. Not only that, the last breakup cost too much in way of money and lives. No one wants that.

Also, there are Americans living in those states who can't leave if their state chose to secede. That's not to mention all the other complications such as federal lands, money and all that. Do you tell a senior on social security that they won't get their funds because a state seceded?

It's all stupid talk no matter who is doing the talking.

[TheFrenchRazor]

92. i'm not saying there wouldn't be complications, but i think they would be surmountable; in any case

if people reject the possibility out of hand, we will be doomed to repub control indefinitely. the EC writing is on the wall.

[cynatnite]

95. Secession is still stupid talk...

It was just as stupid when the repubs were railing about it when Obama won twice.

One bad election shouldn't make people this stupid.

[DonCoquixote]

96. there is an easy way to answer this question

Do you want to give the rednecks an excuse to butcer , kill and enslave every nonwhiote citizen, because that is exactly what the CSA would do if they were allowed to rise again.