Why does Julian Assange want to go to Ecuador?

[struggle4progress]

2012-06-21 Transcript: Julian Assange's first interview from Ecuadorian Embassy

... Fran Kelly: To avoid extradition to Sweden for questioning?

Julian Assange: Yeah, and that's... I don't know where you get that from. We've never said that's the case, and that's simply not the case. The issue is about a very serious matter in the United States and an announcement was made by the Swedes and the Swedish Government that I would be detained, without charge, in Sweden, immediately on extradition. They tried to cancel the 14 days that I had here to apply to appeal the matter at the European Court of Human Rights. So my opportunity to exercise my asylum rights in the United States was at an end. And this is not a matter of onwards extradition from Sweden to the United States. The situation here for me in the UK is extremely, has been extremely precarious. And the refusal by the Swedish prosecutor has led to a technical... the refusal by the Swedish prosecutor to come to the UK for the past 18 months, despite that being absolutely normal procedure, and the refusal of her to explain it in any matter whatsoever to the British court, has kept me trapped in the United Kingdom while the United States has prepared a case against me. We now have intelligence, public record, that the FBI file in its case preparation now runs to 48,135 pages.

Fran Kelly: Okay, let's break this down a bit just in the name of complete accuracy, Julian. Yes, I did say that you had sought political asylum in Ecuador to avoid extradition. What you're saying is, you did it because the Swedish Government had made an attempt to truncate your curtailed freedom as it already is there in the UK, but you are not prepared to go to Sweden under the terms that you believe you would be held in there. Is that what you're saying?

Julian Assange: That's right. My ability to exercise an asylum right would be at an end, and even to exercise rights of appeal, would be at an effective end because the Swedes announced publicly that they would detain me, in prison, without charge, while they continued their so-called investigation, without charge. So we had heard that the Ecuadorians were sympathetic in relation to my struggles and the stuggles of the organization with the United States. And the ability to exercise that option was at an effective end and we had the surprise news that the Crown Prosecution Service here suddenly objected to the 14 days we were meant to have to file an EU appeal and were asking for zero ...

http://wlcentral.org/node/2676

3 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	He now likes Ecuadorian women better than Swedish women
	2 (67%)
	He's hurt because only two Ozzie consular officials showed up for his daily court appearances
	0 (0%)
	So the Swedish prosecutors can interview him on an Ecuadorian beach
	0 (0%)
	Quito has better-quality people than Strasbourg
	0 (0%)
	Because (as he says), "I am Oz, the great and terrible!"
	0 (0%)
	He been told too much about the Swedish Gestapo: they'd have to kill him
	0 (0%)
	Queen Elizabeth is scheming to toss him into the Tower of London
	1 (33%)
	Sweden is overrun with body-snatching aliens
	0 (0%)
	The Americans want to sell him as a slave in South Carolina
	0 (0%)
	Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn
	0 (0%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. free wifi

[Blue_Tires]

2. He's a soccer fan?

[warrprayer]

3. After seeing

Last edited Fri Jun 22, 2012, 12:15 PM - Edit history (1)

what the U.S. did to Bradley Manning, he has the good sense to go to a country that doesn't kiss fascist amerikas ass.

[Mnemosyne]

4. +1000 - Welcome to DU, warrprayer. Nice profile!

[warrprayer]

6. Mark twain

... was way ahead of his time. what a perfect description of the post 911 psychosis that got us into Iraq. Thanks!

[Mnemosyne]

26. So very true!

[RainbowSuperfund]

5. +1 Exactly what I was going to say. n/t

[hifiguy]

8. Bull's eye.

And welcome to DU!!

[coalition_unwilling]

9. +1,000,000,000 x 1,000,000,000 - Well put and definitely

needed saying in this thread. Thanks!

[Robb]

10. Ecuador's so kind to its own alternative press.

I imagine he just wants to join their struggle, mm?

[warrprayer]

11. The same argument was made against Chavez

when he gave the airspace of right wing t.v. and radio stations to public broadcasting.

But not to worry, Fox and friends will take up the slack and make sure that Ecuadorians (?) know what's REALLY going on, right?

[bigwillq]

25. Hello

Welcome to DU!

[warrprayer]

31. Tanks

and a halftrack to ya!

[hack89]

54. It would be a lot smarter to go to a country without an extradition treaty with America. nt

[warrprayer]

72. Probably right

... however someone with the survival skills of Assange probably has his reasons. And I also have reservations about Julians being sponsored by Russia, ala his t.v. show. Accepting the endorsement of another power player isn't a good move, imho. However, I believe if U.S. gets their hands on him, things would turn ugly quickly.

[riderinthestorm]

7. Actually, check out the stats for retiring to Ecuador. It honestly sounds like the next Costa Rica

If you google it, it sounds like a pretty fine place to land.

[warrprayer]

13. Looks good to me!

Ecuador actually has enviromental protection written into its constitution! Al Gore dream come true... a truly progressive country that got on the C.I.A. shitlist when it made moves to nationalize its oil and other natural resources...

Dancer bears uncanny resemblance to Assange

[Voice for Peace]

36. I think that's actual footage of Assange dancing

from the comments on Youtube:

&feature=player_embedded

[treestar]

12. I'm going with the women.

What about his native land? Why does he not return to it or run to its London consulate?

[warrprayer]

14. one of whom

did contract work for C.I.A..

[treestar]

15. If so, there is no excuse to rape her

Women who "do contract work for the CIA" are not people whom one is allowed to rape at will. Not in most civilized countries, anyway.

[larkrake]

16. He did not rape them , he didnt use a condom, BIG diff treestar

[treestar]

17. Then why not defend himself?

He should go straight to Sweden and defend himself.

If the charge is not using a condom, and that's against the law in Sweden, then defend himself from that. And the penalty for that is probably not death or life imprisonment.

[warrprayer]

19. Because Sweden

.... wil hand him immediately over to the U.S.?

[treestar]

24. Is that really a given?

And so why not defend himself from the U.S. charges? Are you really claiming he would not have a trial here? That he could not get lawyers? And that his admirers could not raise money for all that?

What could he be charged with and what are the penalties? Persecution is being jailed for political opinion or race or religion or ethnic group. There are no such laws in the U.S. There might be such laws in a place like Ecuador (I don't know about now, but there have been S.A. dictators).

[jeff47]

28. Still rape, under Sweedish law

Her consent to have sex was based on him using a condom.

Not using a condom voids that consent.

[warrprayer]

32. it isn't really about

... condoms or consent. It's about some people on here salivating at the thought of crucifying the man who lifted the rug to show all the dirt.

[jeff47]

42. Then he'd be quickly acquitted in Sweden

So why try so hard to avoid extradition if there's no crime and it's just an attempt to embarrass. Go there, get your fast acquittal, and get the story out of the news instead of being "Julian Assange, accused rapist" for years.

[girl gone mad]

48. He will be handed over to the US before there is any trial in Sweden.

Your knowledge of this case is less even less impressive than your knowledge of economics and finance.

[jeff47]

50. Because the UK hates the US so much they'd never hand him over.

It's not like they're massively close allies with nearly identical legal systems making extradition extremely easy. No, it's a far better idea to wait for a trial in diplomatically neutral Sweden to try and extradite.

[girl gone mad]

62. A little more reading and a little less bloviating..

might help you avoid continually making foolish, uninformed comments.

Sweden has a record of assisting the US with its rendition and torture program. The Swedish justice system is extremely opaque. The UK is both more transparent and less amenable to bullying by the USA. There is no comparison.

[jeff47]

64. So you're claiming the UK did not help with rendition and torture?

Yes, Sweden helped us so much more than the British. Why, those limey bastards never did anything to help the Bush administration!

And the UK is obviously quite happy to extradite, since they're extraditing him to Sweden. So your claims of transparency don't matter - the UK would transparently extradite to the US just as much as to Sweden.

[reorg]

38. Of course you can provide examples from case law, Mr. Legal Expert

Not using a condom may be careless, but consent to sex is consent.

Both females in question neither claim to have been unconscious nor do they claim to have been forced to having sex with Assange - and THAT is the only thing that counts, even in Sweden.

In fact, they both threw themselves at him, both invited him into their bed and initiated the sexual encounters.

Further information: http://rixstep.com/1/20110204,04.shtml

[jeff47]

40. You can't apply US rape law in Sweden

And it doesn't matter if they threw themselves at him, gave him a fantastic blowjob and then said "Put a condom on so we can have sex".

They asked for condoms, didn't get 'em. So they get to file a complaint. Whether or not that really happened is up to a jury.

[reorg]

44. that's not what happened and not what is alleged

and yes, you can apply US law to these incidents, because rape laws are basically everywhere the same. The Swedish rape paragraph differs in some finer points from other penal codes, but these have no relevance here whatsoever.

Allegation 1: She closes her legs and grasps for a condom while they lie on top of each other ("his bodyweight pressing down on her&quot . When he asks what the trouble is she tells him put the condom on , he complies. Later the condom breaks (says she, he allegedly never notices a thing, nor did she ever talk to him about it). She believes he somehow broke the condom deliberately. Not rape.

Allegation 2: They sleep together several times throughout the night, with condom. In the early morning, while she is still "drowsy" or "half-asleep" (her own words), he initiates sexual intercourse without a condom on. She allegedly doesn't notice this at first, expresses concern when she does (doesn't want babies, doesn't want AIDS), but then continues with the shagging nevertheless. Gets breakfeast afterwards, lends him some money, everything is fine and dandy until Assange never calls again. She still doesn't allege she was raped, but the lawyer and the prosecutor currently in charge think the matter should be "investigated" further, anyway.

So, please, show us one, a single case, anywhere in the world, where concern over a broken condom or lack of one has led to RAPE investigations. Thanks.

[jeff47]

47. No, rape laws are widly different. They go from non-existent to what's on the books in Sweden.

I realize you love the guy, but that doesn't also mean he can't do any wrong.

And if he has done no wrong, then he'll be acquitted.

So, please, show us one, a single case, anywhere in the world, where concern over a broken condom or lack of one has led to RAPE investigations.

Well, there's this Assange guy....

[reorg]

51. so you can't show us a single case or even an investigation

Right, because it doesn't exist.

Rape laws are pretty much the same as they all require

a) violence, breaking the will of somebody, or
b) exploiting the state of helpness of somebody for taking sexual advantage

The Assange case meets neither of these two essential requirements.

[jeff47]

52. No, I did show you one

'cause the one we're talking about had an investigation, and now there's a case.

Rape laws are pretty much the same as they all require

You should really get out more. The rest of the world is not exactly like the US.

And again, if your claims are true, he'll win his case and go on with his life because the jury will decide there was no rape.

But he's not doing that. Instead, he's working really, really hard to stay out of Sweden. Kinda implies he might have something to fear. And I do realize you'll just claim it's to avoid extradition to the US, but as mentioned above the UK will happily extradite him. After all, the UK is extraditing him to Sweden.

Praise Assange for everything good you think he did, but that doesn't mean he can never do wrong.

[reorg]

56. Well, no, you didn't

Assange is obviously being harassed for political reasons.

The only way to counter that claim would be to come up with one, a single example of a case, or at least an investigation, of the same nature. Where was anybody ever investigated for allegedly not using or destroying a condom? True or not, the mere allegation is outrageous.

Feel free to include the ME and Asia in addition to Europe and the US. I'll be waiting!

(As to rape laws, I happen to have read many of them, as opposed to you, my friend.)

[jeff47]

57. You asked for one.

If you were more clever, you'd have asked for a DIFFERENT one.

Since I don't speak Swedish, I'm gonna decline your offer to dig through Swedish newspapers looking for another case. I'll just point out that this trial would be long over if what you say is true, and if Assange had not fled. He's been harassed much, much more by trying to avoid the trial.

As to rape laws, I happen to have read many of them, as opposed to you, my friend

Then post the Swedish one. You know, the one you claim doesn't cover this.

[reorg]

59. the Swedish penal code is available in English translation

with comments and case examples. But I'm not surprised that you didn't even look for it.

Oh, and didn't our little conversation start with your claim that you know how the law works in Sweden?

Put up or shut up.

[jeff47]

61. Then you'd have an incredibly easy time showing how their rape law doesn't apply

Oh, and didn't our little conversation start with your claim that you know how the law works in Sweden?

Yes. It was followed by your claim that Sweden's rape laws were copies of US law, just like everywhere else on the planet.

So, show me Sweden's rape laws so you can point out how they do not cover these acts.

Btw, if they didn't, then this trial would have lasted less than a day and it becomes even more silly that Assange has been fighting so hard to avoid trial. Which means you're gonna have to move on to claiming Swedish courts are corrupt soon.

Put up or shut up.

Right back at ya.

[reorg]

65. I already did, my friend

to wit:

Rape laws are pretty much the same as they all require

a) violence, breaking the will of somebody, or
b) exploiting the state of helpness of somebody for taking sexual advantage

As I pointed out here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=844065

this is not what the women say happened.


So, how about some examples? You claimed you know the Swedish law? Surely you did not make that up out of thin air, or did you?

Where has anyone ever been accused of rape because he allegedly didn't use condoms?

[jeff47]

66. No, your beliefs are not the law

So show me the Swedish rape laws so you can show how they do not apply.

Next, explain why it made sense for Assange to spend so long running from a trial where the charges would be dismissed in under an hour.

[reorg]

69. don't sell yourself cheap, my friend

I pointed out the two essential elements, either of which must apply in pretty much all laws covering rape--at least those I am aware of--and that would be most European and US penal codes.

Instead of empty blather, provide us with an explanation why you think I'm wrong, use a search engine if you want to find the English translation of the Swedish law that you claimed to know already but apparently don't, or shut the hell up.

It is pretty clear for everybody why Assange didn't want to go to prison in Sweden. He explained it, others did. Do I really have to break it down some more so you can finally grasp the concept?

[warrprayer]

18. She gave Assange

... an expoding condom. It's an old Cuba trick.

[treestar]

21. Well then answer to it

Sweden gives him a chance to defend himself. Again, not persecution.

[warrprayer]

23. I would be all for a fair trial

if Sweden would give Assange a legally binding guarantee that they would not turn him over to the U.S.. and as we both know, that isn't in the cards.

[treestar]

37. Other threads on the board

indicate that the UK could turn Julian over to the U.S. and in fact is more likely to as a US ally, and hasn't.

And if Julian really is the new Daniel Elsberg, he should be willing to face the consequences and even turn himself in to the U.S.

[jeff47]

41. The UK is infinitely more likely to hand him over than the Swedes.

The UK is an extremely close US ally. If the US wanted him extradited, they'd ask the UK and not wait for Sweden.

[reorg]

45. OMG , I hope nobody ever listens to your legal advice

"Infinitely" more likely, yeah, right.

The extradition treaties are not much different, and while the UK may indeed require less proof and documentation to comply with the wishes of the Big Brother, that doesn't mean they won't prefer to let the little brother do the dirty work.

Sweden is just as good a NATO puppet ally as the UK, they send soldiers everywhere they're asked to, and hand over prisoners for torture just like the UK.

Has it ever occurred to you guys that the US may WANT to draw this thing out?

[jeff47]

46. OMG I hope nobody ever listens to your geopolitical bullshit

Sweden isn't in NATO. They are far from a US puppet. Heck, they haven't been directly involved in a war since 1814. Though they have participated in UN-backed missions, including in Afghanistan post-invasion.

Has it ever occurred to you guys that the US may WANT to draw this thing out?

Under what theory? That Assange is dumb enough to remain in countries with strong ties to the US and thus easy extradition?

Does it occur to you that saints can commit sins?

[reorg]

53. As far as I remember, the bombing of Libya happened more like 198 days rather than years ago

http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getasset.aspx?itemid=39019

Sweden deployed eight of its Saab Gripen fighters to Sigonella air base in Sicily over the weekend to join the expanding number of nations that have contributed to the NATO-led Operation

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/libya-sweden-sends-gripens-to-join-unified-protector-355099/

Afghanistan (ISAF) mechanised rifle company 500 men
Kosovo (KFOR) mechanised company 252 troops
Gulf of Aden (Operation Atalanta) 3 ships 160 men

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Armed_Forces


As people in Sweden quickly found out, the possibly CIA-connected, anti-Cuba and religious activist Anna Ardin, who threw herself at Assange only to accuse him later of, guess what, destroying a condom! apparently has close family relations to one of those warriors in Afghanistan.

[jeff47]

55. So....didn't read that UN-backed mission part, huh?

As people in Sweden quickly found out, the possibly CIA-connected, anti-Cuba and religious activist Anna Ardin, who threw herself at Assange only to accuse him later of, guess what, destroying a condom! apparently has close family relations to one of those warriors in Afghanistan.

And Assange is free to bring this up at his trial.

Are you going to next claim that Swedish courts are notoriously corrupt? Or are you gonna go with the US will shoot down the plane transferring Assange to Sweden?

[reorg]

58. So, there is no war in Afghanistan

in your opinion, I take it.

No, I never said "Swedish courts are corrupt". But one prosecutor did something illegal with the effect of triggering a worldwide smear campaign, and another is going along with the persecution of Assange, under a pretext that has never been used before.

What makes you think there will be a trial in Sweden? Has anybody brought charges?

And even if they will, it wouldn't be the first time someone is held in prison for years during a rape trial only to be acquitted later, their reputation destroyed. I could cite you two widely publicised cases off the top of my head. Ms Ny reportedly thinks that's okay, the just burden that males have to bear. In the case of Assange, it would also serve the purpose of punishing him for the work he has done with Wikileaks, which the authoritarians of all nations will welcome with glee.

[jeff47]

60. Jeez, guess I only have to cut-n-paste here

So....didn't read that UN-backed mission part, huh?

But one prosecutor did something illegal with effect of triggering a worldwide smear campaign, and another is going along with the persecution of Assange, under a pretext that has never been used before.

Because it is utterly impossible for Swedish authorities to review the actions of their prosecutors. They just get to do whatever they feel like whenever they want.

What makes you think there will be a trial in Sweden? Has anybody brought charges?

You can't have someone extradited until there are charges.
And if there's no trial in Sweden, then he doesn't have to stay in Sweden.

And even if they will, it wouldn't be the first time someone is held in prison for years during a rape trial only to be acquitted later, their reputation destroyed

Because running for years does wonders for someone's reputation. It makes you look super innocent to do everything you can to avoid facing a trial.

And even if they will, it wouldn't be the first time someone is held in prison for years during a rape trial only to be acquitted later

Sweden has the concept of a "speedy trial".

[reorg]

63. Ouch, I didn't realize you were THAT uninformed

Yes, a prosecutor can pretty much do what they want as long as their superiors don't object.

Yes, you can have someone extradited without charges. That's what the British courts have decided, Assange is wanted for questioning, no charges have been brought.

Up until now, Assange was at least among people who spoke his language, and he may have hoped the courts would decide in his favor. If you are being investigated and possibly indicted for "rape" in Sweden, they'll hold you in prison right until you are acquitted. And yes, this can take years.

[jeff47]

67. Again, running makes no sense if your claims are true.

That's what the British courts have decided, Assange is wanted for questioning, no charges have been brought.

Sweden issued an arrest warrant in December 2010. Those are charges.

Up until now, Assange was at least among people who spoke his language

Which is why he's trying to flee to Ecuador. Makes perfect sense.

If you are being investigated and possibly indicted for "rape" in Sweden, they'll hold you in prison right until you are acquitted. And yes, this can take years.

If you are an utter moron. Because the Swedish equivalent for a motion to dismiss would be trivial to create, and would have to be granted if your claims about Swedish rape law were true.

I fully understand that you love the guy. Doesn't mean he's perfect. The sooner you stop grasping at conspiracy theory straws, the less you'll be hurt. If you'd like any examples, talk to those of us who strongly supported John Edwards.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. The same reason that Chen Guangcheng sought asylum in America.

[SidDithers]

22. The same reason Roman Polanski fled to France...nt

Sid

[warrprayer]

27. Julian Assange

... accomplished more in one minute than you could in two lifetimes.

[Robb]

29. Leave Julian Alone!!!

[Tarheel_Dem]

30. Well, he certainly probably assaulted more women, if you count that as an "accomplishment".

[Ikonoklast]

33. Maybe that's the real crime the women should be accusing him for.

Being a 'Sixty-Second Man'.

[RZM]

35. LOL. Beat me to it n/t

[RZM]

34. Nobody likes a 'minute man'

[SidDithers]

39. Welcome to DU...

Sid

[warrprayer]

70. Thanks

I'm having a blast

[HuckleB]

43. Red herring! Get your red herring here!

[warrprayer]

71. Sorry Charlie

[HuckleB]

73. And more red herring! Cheap!

[Egalitarian Thug]

49. An aversion to small plane crashes and lead poisoning.

Also, induced heart attacks and "suicide".

[GeorgeGist]

68. Uruguay could surpass Ecuador

WEDNESDAY, JUNE 20, 2012

... as the worlds Number 1 retirement haven.

Uruguay government plans to sell marijuana to registered users
.

MONTEVIDEO, Uruguay - Uruguay's government plans to take a step beyond legalizing marijuana. It wants to sell it.

Local news media and lawmakers report that the government plans to send a bill to Congress on Wednesday that would legalize marijuana sales as a crime-fighting measure. Only the government would be allowed to sell the cigarettes, and only to adults registered as users.

Those who exceed a limited number of cigarettes allowed would have to undergo drug rehabilitation.

The idea is to remove profits from drug dealers and divert users from harder drugs. There are no laws against marijuana use itself in Uruguay.

Ruling party Sen. Monica Xavier tells local TV that if the measure passes, it should be accompanied by efforts to get people off drugs.