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Two questions for Republican Christians
Do you believe Romney is Rich?.... do you believe Romney is going to Heaven?
If Romney is rich, and by all accounts he is extremely rich, and Jesus said that it would be easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven, how is it possible Romney could enter Heaven? Why would you vote for a person you know Jesus himself would not allow into Heaven? Has your Party become more to you than Jesus Christ?
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AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)TBMASE
(769 posts)that John 3:16 pretty much explains how you get to heaven.
Now, you have to live your life in a way that shows you have really bought in to it but that's how you get to heaven according to most Christian religions
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Be an avaricious, cruel, greedy asshole all your life and when you're on your death bed say "I accept Jeebus as my lord and savior" and escape all metaphysical responsibility for a lifetime of assholishness, cruelty and exploitation of your fellow humans. The ultimate proof that Xtianity is a total fraud.
TBMASE
(769 posts)you have to actually believe it.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Or they used to back in the day - one can't tell anymore with that bag of monkey shit Pope Ratzi. The fundies think good works are utterly expendable and probably evidence of devil worship.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)Amassing a huge amount of wealth by not actually producing anything, by taking advantage of the unfortunate circumstances of others and then doing more damage to amass MORE wealth without making the moral decision that one's actions may negatively impact fellow human beings is not living it.
People can call themselves 'Christians' all they want, they can present a face to the world that fools others into thinking they are, but until they really, truly follow in the path of Jesus purely by their actions towards others, they're anti-Christians and when it really comes down to it - antichrists who live by the laws of the antichurch.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)screw your fellow man to your heart's content. Just say the passwords again every night and all is forgiven.
lindysalsagal
(20,687 posts)in the center of the universe, and protected pedophile priests didn't do it for ya?
You needed a shortage of integrity, too?
Some people are never happy.....
geez
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Nope, I was just focusing on the topic at hand.
Personally, though I am an atheist, I agree with Gandhi - "I like your Christ but I do not care much for your christians. They are so unlike your Christ." 
lindysalsagal
(20,687 posts)I'm gonna use that.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Is it in our Solar System?
Is it impacted by cosmic microwave background radiation?
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)This would seem to increase the odds of Voyager finding one of them.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Heaven is a different universe
Voyager won't find it
Is there a "Devil's Advocate" icon?
snooper2
(30,151 posts)How long does it take to travel there?
One of the more original made up answers but still fail ...
Is Hell it's own universe as well then?
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)and you can travel to either one almost instantly. All you need do is die.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Do I come to the other side with sideburns or is a toenail coming out of my ear 
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)only your energy is transferred.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)John 3:16 is a bumper sticker approach. You yourself admit that you need to do more than simply believe.
The Parable of the Sheep and Goats spells out in no uncertain terms that one group goes to "everlasting punishment" while the other goes to "life eternal".
Besides, rumor has it that John was a drinker. 
spin
(17,493 posts)I should avoid answering this post however ...
In the time that Jesus lived the rich were very oppressive and were able to live lives of luxury while the poor suffered. The ruling elite had little or no concern for the underclass except to bleed them dry in order to ensure their wealth and power.
Today in our nation we have made some advancement. While some of the 1% are just as greedy as the rich in the time of Jesus, many are also very generous and donate much of their wealth to charitable causes. Examples include:
Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation
The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation (B&MGF or the Gates Foundation) is the largest transparently operated[4] private foundation in the world, founded by Bill and Melinda Gates. It is "driven by the interests and passions of the Gates family".[5] The primary aims of the foundation are, globally, to enhance healthcare and reduce extreme poverty, and in America, to expand educational opportunities and access to information technology. The foundation, based in Seattle, Washington, is controlled by its three trustees: Bill Gates, Melinda Gates and Warren Buffett. Other principal officers include Co-Chair William H. Gates, Sr. and Chief Executive Officer Jeff Raikes. It had an endowment of US$33.5 billion as of September 30, 2011.[3] The scale of the foundation and the way it seeks to apply business techniques to giving makes it one of the leaders in the philanthrocapitalism revolution in global philanthropy,[6] though the foundation itself notes that the philanthropic role has limitations.[5] In 2007, its founders were ranked as the second most generous philanthropists in America.[7] In 2010, its founders had started The Commission on Education of Health Professionals for the 21st Century titled as "Transforming education to strengthen health systems in an interdependent world".[8]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundation
Howard Hughes Medical Institute
Howard Hughes Medical Institute (HHMI) is a United States non-profit medical research organization based in Chevy Chase, Maryland.[1][2] It was founded by the American businessman Howard Hughes in 1953. It is one of the largest private funding organizations for biological and medical research in the United States. HHMI spends about $1 million per HHMI Investigator per year, which amounts to annual investment in biomedical research of about $825 million. The institute has an endowment of $16.1 billion, making it the second-wealthiest philanthropic organization in the United States and the second best endowed medical research foundation in the world.[3] HHMI is the former owner of the Hughes Aircraft Company - an American aerospace firm which was divested to various firms over time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Hughes_Medical_Institute
Ford Foundation
The Ford Foundation is a private foundation based in New York City and created in 1936 by Edsel Ford and Henry Ford. It was funded originally by a $25,000 gift from Henry Ford but by 1947 after the death of the two founders, the foundation owned 90 percent of the non-voting shares of the Ford Motor Company (the Ford family kept the voting shares to themselves).[1] The foundation sold off its Ford holdings and now plays no role in the automobile company. For years it was the largest and one of the two or three most influential foundations in the world, with a global reach and special interests in education, the arts, and Third World development.
The foundation makes grants through its headquarters and ten international field offices.[2] For fiscal year 2011, it reported assets of $10.0 billion and approved $413 million in grants.[3] The grants are made for projects that focus on reducing poverty and injustice; promoting democratic values; and advancing human knowledge, creativity and achievement.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Foundation
J. Paul Getty Trust
The J. Paul Getty Trust is the world's wealthiest art institution with an estimated endowment in April 2009 of $US 4.2 billion.[2] Based in Los Angeles, California, it operates the J. Paul Getty Museum, which has two locations, the Getty Center in Los Angeles and the Getty Villa in Pacific Palisades district of Los Angeles, California. Its other programs are the Getty Foundation, the Getty Research Institute, and the Getty Conservation Institute.
With an estimated 1.6 million visitors per year, the trust operates one of the most visited museums in the United States. The trust also provides grants and training to other museums and cultural institutions. The trust has a library, publications program and visiting scholar program. The trust's conservation program is dedicated to advancing conservation practice through the creation and delivery of knowledge. However, since 2008, the trust has scaled back the scope of its activities in response to financial challenges.
History
The J. Paul Getty Museum Trust was established by oilman J. Paul Getty in 1953. Getty founded the Getty Oil Company, and in 1957 Fortune magazine named him the richest living American.[3] At his death, he was worth more than $2 billion.[4] Getty died in 1976[5] and left the bulk of his estate, including nearly $660 million worth of stock in Getty Oil, to the J. Paul Getty Museum Trust. Legal conflicts over the will took years to resolve, but in 1982 the trust finally received Getty's full bequest. The trust began to add a number of new programs in 1982, and in February 1983, it petitioned the court to change its name to the J. Paul Getty Trust.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Paul_Getty_Trust
Many other rich people have devoted their lives to helping the poor and promoting civil rights. Often they serve as our elected officials in Congress. Ted Kennedy is one such example.
Now obviously the rich often accumulate their wealth by oppressing the less advantaged and I do not agree that is a Christian approach to life. However it is far above my pay grade to decide if they go to heaven or hell.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)spin
(17,493 posts)and indeed there is little or no non Christian factual evidence form the 1st century to support his existence. Many scholars believe that Christ is a mythological or fictional character created by the early Christian community and may be a composite of several individuals who lived at that time.
Bohunk68
(1,364 posts)Volume IV, Chapter III, paragraph 3 - " Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works - a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over t him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross (April 3, 33AD), those that loved him at the first did no forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day".
This is the translation of William Whiston. Eighth printing Feb 1982 by Baker Book House Grand Rapids, MI
Josephus b. 37 or 38 AD died c. 100
spin
(17,493 posts)This is one of the few mentions of Christ in ancient documents.
Josephus on Jesus
***snip***
The Testimonium Flavianum (meaning the testimony of Flavius [Josephus]) is the name given to the passage found in Book 18, Chapter 3, 3 of the Antiquities in which Josephus describes the condemnation and crucifixion of Jesus at the hands of the Roman authorities.[45][10] The Testimonium is likely the most discussed passage in Josephus and perhaps in all ancient literature.[1]
The earliest secure reference to this passage is found in the writings of the fourth-century Christian apologist and historian Eusebius, who used Josephus' works extensively as a source for his own Historia Ecclesiastica. Writing no later than 324,[46] Eusebius quotes the passage[47] in essentially the same form as that preserved in extant manuscripts. It has therefore been suggested that part or all of the passage may have been Eusebius' own invention, in order to provide an outside Jewish authority for the life of Christ.[48][49] However, it is also possible that others, including the third-century patristic writer Origen also knew of the passage. Although Origen makes no direct reference to the Testimonium, scholars such as Louis Feldman and Zvi Baras have presented arguments that Origen may have seen a copy of the Testimonium and not commented on it for there was no need to complain about its tone.[50][51]
Of the three passages found in Josephus' Antiquities, this passage, if authentic, would offer the most direct support for the crucifixion of Jesus. The general scholarly view is that while the Testimonium Flavianum is most likely not authentic in its entirety, it originally consisted of an authentic nucleus with a reference to the execution of Jesus by Pilate which was then subject to interpolation.[10][11][12][13] James Dunn states that there is "broad consensus" among scholars regarding the nature of an authentic reference to Jesus in the Testimonium and what the passage would look like without the interpolations.[14] Among other things, the authenticity of this passage would help make sense of the later reference in Josephus Antiquities of the Jews Book 20, Chapter 9, 1 where Josephus refers to the stoning of "James the brother of Jesus". A number of scholars argue that the reference to Jesus in this later passage as "the aforementioned Christ" relates to the earlier reference in the Testimonium.[1][2][52]emphasis added
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus
Bohunk68
(1,364 posts)I had not come across that reference before. Thanks for that. As I was typing it, I had some reservations about some of the things that were being said. It just seemed oddly a Christian construction in several places. A later construction, that is. It just didn't seem logical that a first century historian would have said some things in that manner. About like the Gospel of John and its polemics. Someone must've existed, it would seem, otherwise all these writings, including the Gnostic stuff would not make sense. As it is, the purported sayings and teachings do offer a valid way of looking at things and how to treat others.
spin
(17,493 posts)in order to promote Christianity. It is extremely hard to believe that a person who was Jewish would accept Christ as the messiah. If the passage had been left unaltered it might help prove that an itinerant teacher eventually known as Jesus Christ did exist.
If the text was changed it was extremely foolish. Of course the person who possibly played around with the wording had no way to predict the future. Even so, if he was a true Christian, he would have realized the importance of integrity.
Ghost of Huey Long
(322 posts)Did they polls Africans on what they thought would most benefit their health and well being?
Because I highly doubt vaccines would be first on their list.
And why is Bill Gates trying to put "Teach For America" teachers in our schools with 5 weeks training and an NFL ear piece?
I seriously question his intentions.
spin
(17,493 posts)That's why I like posting on DU. I often have to do some research on subjects which I never really considered and I often learn from the effort.
For the question on vaccines I found this:
With Vaccines, Bill Gates Changes The World Again
11/02/2011 @ 11:55AM
***snip***
That same epiphany for his public health philanthropy came even earlier. Bill’s dad had set up a dinner at Seattle’s posh Columbia Tower Club with the Program for Appropriate Technology in Health (PATH). While the meeting started with birth control—among other efforts, PATH taught Chinese condom makers to test their products before shipping them—Gates began consuming data that startled him. In society after society, he saw, when the mortality rate falls—specifically, below 10 deaths per 1,000 people—the birth rate follows, and population growth stabilizes. “It goes against common sense,” Gates says. Most parents don’t choose to have eight children because they want to have big families, it turns out, but because they know many of their children will die.
“If a mother and father know their child is going to live to adulthood, they start to naturally reduce their population size,” says Melinda.
In terms of giving, Gates did a 180-degree turn. Rather than prevent births, he would aim his billions at saving the kids already born. “We moved pretty heavily into vaccines once we understood that,” says Gates.
He could have focused on clinics and doctors, but that doesn’t scale. “The magic tool of health intervention is the vaccine, because they can be made very inexpensively,” he says. “We had to choose what the most impactful thing to give would be—not just money, but our time, energy, voice.” Melinda, his partner in all things philanthropic, echoes that thought: “Where’s the place you can have the biggest impact with the money? Where can you save the very most lives with those resources?”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2011/11/02/the-second-coming-of-bill-gates/
I also found this info on Gates' support of educational reform:
The Evolution of Bill Gates, Education Philanthropist
January 26, 2012
One thing I admire about Bill Gates is that he isn't afraid to update his thinking when presented with new information. I've written in the past about Gates' annual letter on his philanthropic activities, which always includes a section on the nearly $400 million his foundation spends each year on American education reform. In these letters, Gates has been careful to praise teachers while simultaneously advocating for more rigorous, often data-based evaluation in order to weed out low performers. In his 2010 letter, for example, Gates controversially called student testing the model for teacher evaluation, noting: "It is amazing how little feedback teachers get to help them improve, especially when you think about how much feedback their students get. Students regularly have their skills measured with tests. The results show how they compare to other students."
The new 2012 letter, however, marks a significant shift in Gates' thinking, and shows he has learned a lot from dialogue with classroom teachers. The letter argues strongly in favor of teacher peer review, a more holistic, classroom-observation based evaluation strategy that is popular with teachers and their unions. Gates praises a program in Tampa in which teachers receive feedback from both their principal and a team of trained peer evaluators. "Most teachers want more feedback and will use it to improve, even if the financial rewards for performance are comparatively modest," Gates writes.
Gates' beliefs on teaching reform are more sophisticated than they used to be. While he still supports the use of student testing data as part of a teacher's evaluation score, he now understands that teaching is a profession built around an ideology of cooperation, not competition. Indeed, the sociological research on teachers has shown this consistently for decades; check out the work of Edward Deci and Dan Lortie. Teachers' disinterest in financial gain relative to other working conditions is why merit pay programs are rarely the transformative reform lever their supporters hope they will be.
http://www.danagoldstein.net/dana_goldstein/2012/01/the-evolution-of-bill-gates-education-philanthropist.html
Of course I also found some criticism of both programs.
Paralysis Cases Spike in Wake of Bill Gates’ Polio Vaccination Effort in India
GAVI (Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunizations) Blamed for Recommending Untested Polio Vaccines
Aaron Dykes
Infowars.com
April 6, 2012
Expert medical pediatricians in India have criticized the World Health Organisation (WHO) and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation for their illusory promise of polio eradication without noting the devastating side effects its vaccination regiment could inflict.
***snip***
But the real story is that while polio has statistically disappeared from India, there has been a huge spike in cases of non-polio acute flaccid paralysis (NPAFP)– the very types of crippling problems it was hoped would disappear with polio but which have instead flourished from a new cause.
***snip***
While the human costs are the starkest reminder that bad policy in philanthrophy and government alike can damage lives, the economic toll of the vaccination program has also reflected badly on the involvement by the World Health Organization and Gates Foundation, both core partners of GAVI (Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization), which also boasts the Rockefeller Foundation, World Bank and United Nations as partners.
Their recommendations to achieve total vaccine saturation of populations in poorer countries are obscene, if only on the basis of cost alone.
http://www.infowars.com/paralysis-cases-spike-in-wake-of-bill-gates-polio-vaccination-effort-in-india/
Are Teach for America, Inc. and Bill Gates Dumbing Down Our Educational System?
Posted on May 24, 2011 by seattleducation2011
Teach for America, Inc. was the brain child of Wendy Kopp while she was an undergraduate at Princeton in the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs. TFA, Inc. has turned into a multi-million dollar business. Wendy Kopp does not have a degree in education and from what I have been able to unearth, has no experience teaching in a classroom.
It started out innocently enough, or so it would seem, as an effort based on the Peace Corps model to provide schools with temporary teaching staff. Teach for America recruited graduates fresh out of college and with five weeks of training, placed them in schools in small southern towns and rural areas for two year stints where teachers were hard to come by. Something was better than nothing as far as those school communities were concerned. Since then, because the labor is cheap, TFA became the darling of the charter school industry. No unions had to be involved with charter schools and the recruits would gladly do what they needed to do to fulfill their two year stints, have their loans waived during that time and receive a $5,000 “stipend” to pay off past educational debts or pay for their educational pursuits in the future, whatever that might be. It was perfect for the charter schools because these schools are required by state law to maintain a certain level of achievement as shown by test scores. TFA, Inc. recruits teach to the test and there is little concern about learning how to manage “low-performing” students or students with special needs because the charter schools ensure that those students are either not admitted or are quickly shown the way out of the door. Now, they are here in Seattle trying to justify their existence with the financial aid of Bill Gates to the tune of $2.5M to support TFA, Inc. in opening an office in the Puget Sound area.
First let’s look at the broader picture in Seattle and this will hold true for many cosmopolitan areas in this country. In Seattle we have two universities that have colleges of education, Seattle University and the University of Washington. Both colleges enjoy excellent reputations for preparing students to become teachers. Needless to say, there is no shortage of qualified individuals who are eager to begin their careers here in Seattle. I personally have spoken to many teachers who are waiting to hear from Seattle Public Schools after providing their resumes and proof of certification. These teachers have had the experience of student teaching for one or two years, know how to develop lesson plans and want to make a commitment to our community to work with our students over the long haul. They’re prepared.
No matter how smart a TFA, Inc. recruit is or where they went to school or what they studied or how excited they are to be working, they will not be prepared to develop lesson plans, manage classrooms and the issues that come up with individual students as well as teach and it’s not fair to place this burden of their inexperience and lack of training on the students or school staff.
http://seattleducation2010.wordpress.com/2011/05/24/are-teach-for-america-inc-and-bill-gates-dumbing-down-our-educational-system/
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)
undeterred
(34,658 posts)We're not talking about the measles here- try typhoid, typhus, polio, yellow fever, to start.
These are fatal or debilitating diseases against which many African countries have nothing to offer. If you are an American travelling to central Africa you can go to a travel clinic a few months in advance and be innoculated against all of these diseases and get medications to prevent malaria. If you are an African living in central Africa, odds are good that you will never receive any vaccinations and that you will encounter one of these diseases.
I spent a summer in central Africa, and I can't think of anything Africans would benefit more from for the cost than a life saving vaccine. There is no medical care at all in many places, even for infants and children.
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)exception for him.
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)Ghost of Huey Long
(322 posts)I would also like to know why "Thou Shall Not Kill" only applies to a fetus, but not to millions of innocents killed in wars overseas, or their support of the death penalty, and of course millions dying in this country due to lack of health care, lack of shelter, lack of food much of it due to lack of jobs all so the super rich can sit on their asses and watch their bank balances go up to feel good about themselves!!!
spin
(17,493 posts)It should read "Thou shat not murder." Most modern translations agree.
You can check out the various translations of Exodus 20:13 at http://bible.cc/exodus/20-13.htm
Also check out Matthew 19:18 http://bible.cc/matthew/19-18.htm
Bake
(21,977 posts)Jesus said that. How do you like it, Mittens?
Bake
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)preached at many mega churches that little parable is verbotten.
Anyway, Romey is NOT Christian, so it really matters little.
(I wish I was kidding)
ChazII
(6,205 posts)at the poverty level. Since I am 'poor' does that give me the 'get into heaven free' card?
Yes, I am being sarcastic. I was taught you had to have faith and works.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)...does not decide who gets into heaven.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)According to God
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)
ithinkmyliverhurts
(1,928 posts)There are no republican Christians. There are Christian republicans.
noel711
(2,185 posts)Theology is more than mere words,
more that simply believing a couple words...
And sadly, the point of faith (NOT the drivel that passes for "!**CHRISTIANITY**!"
point is NOT getting a 'get into heaven free' card,
but living the abundant life.. abundant NOT in material possessions,
but in the glories and depths of this earthly life, the time we've been given.
How we choose to live with the people sharing this planet with us,
how we take care of what we have, and share with those who lack...
So how we doing with that?
Not well.
KatChatter
(194 posts)is to judge others by the religion they espouse to follow I would have to say that
In my 50 years on this earth I would say that Mother Theresa is in heaven along with MLK, Malcolm X and maybe Pope JP2 forgiving the dude who popped a cap in you is walking the walk. Very few would get in. I am sure there are plenty of nameless folks who could be added to the list too, I personally only know 2 and neither is Christian, Buddhist and Muslim. I am sure if I thunk about it really hard a few more names will pop into my head.
Of course Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Janis, John Lennon and many others are their too...come on the Supreme Being has to like music and he/she/it would not settle for hacks when only the best would do.
Except Elvis he is a roasting in the fiery pits.
upi402
(16,854 posts)But they don't bother with facts.
God I hope there really IS a hell for these phake kristians!
KatChatter
(194 posts)who only got killed for the crime of talking about social justice by the political elite
Just like...
Gandhi
MLK
Malcolm
and a long list of others.
Very sad that so many don't get the point of their religious books.
ballabosh
(330 posts)Why do you tolerate Romney consistently breaking the commandment against lying when he speaks of Obama?
Why do you then you turn around and spread those lies further?
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)You are trying to force this conclusion on them. That tends to backfire.
I think it should simply be pointed out that Mormons, including Rmoney, don't believe in the same God that they/we do.
They don't believe that Christ was divine. They don't believe in The Holy Trinity. They do believe in multiple Gods and that humans can be elevated to Godhood.
To Christians, they are pagan polytheists.
Attacking wealth won't work. They all worship wealth even more than they worship their pale, blue eyed Christ.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)to worship the teacher rather than to listen to him.
agent46
(1,262 posts)You're confusing the old christianity with the new corporate friendly fast-food reboot. There is a pervasive "prosperity doctrine" now. If you are rich it's a sign you are favored by god and have taken resposnibility and worked hard. There's not much room for subtle discernment or self-honesty. Very simple. The prosperity doctrine has been adopted by pop religions of all stripes these days. It's nothing more than corporatist social engineering. Don't expect a thoughtful theological response to your questions. Real Americans aren't up to that.
Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)Every word. I can hold that up as a reference card to all the conservatives I know and it would overlap exactly and not stray outside the lines.
