What we need to consider about high speed rail

[FrodosPet]

High speed rail offers a tremendous opportunity for inter-urban transportation.

Unlike airports, the train station is a relatively small place which can fit in or close to most central business districts. It is an energy efficient mode of travel for a significant number of people who want to go to the same place at the same time. And the huge project of building independent high speed quality rail lines, bridges, etc would employ a LOT of people.

But as a natural Bobby Buzzkill, my mind always seems to wander towards the challenges of, well, anything. I cannot help but wonder if we have what it takes to build this system.

I would like to point to China as an example of what can go wrong. Granted, China has shown itself to be much more incompetent and uncaring than the United States (think poison toothpaste, pet food, etc.), but we do seem to have some of the traits of China vis-a-vis corruption and profit seeking above social responsibility.

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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/29/world/asia/design-flaws-cited-in-china-train-crash.html

Design Flaws Cited in Deadly Train Crash in China

By SHARON LaFRANIERE
Published: December 28, 2011

Chinese investigators delivered a long-awaited report on Wednesday on the deadly July 23 high-speed train crash in the eastern coastal city of Wenzhou, citing a string of blunders, including serious design flaws in crucial signaling equipment.

~ snip ~

The crash investigators found sloppy development of the signaling equipment, bidding irregularities in the contract to provide it and lapses by safety inspectors who were supposed to ensure its quality. When lightning struck the Wenzhou line, the wrong signals appeared, sending one high-speed train smashing into the rear end of another on a viaduct.

~ snip ~

The disaster threw a spotlight on skulduggery in the Railway Ministry, a fief of two million workers that owns the railways it regulates, a stark conflict of interest that experts have repeatedly criticized. Caixin, a Chinese magazine known for aggressive reporting, disclosed last week that Mr. Zhang, the ministry’s former chief engineer, had purchased a luxurious home in a Los Angeles suburb in 2002, when his government salary amounted to about 2,200 renminbi, or $264, a month.

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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/13/world/asia/tested-section-of-new-high-speed-rail-track-disintegrates-in-china.html

In China, Part of Railway Collapses Despite Test Runs
By IAN JOHNSON
Published: March 12, 2012

BEIJING — China’s troubled state-run rail system suffered another setback with news reports Monday that a section of railway that already had undergone test runs has collapsed.

~ snip ~

Contractors working for the ministry say they are regularly squeezed by government officials, who pocket part of the money allocated for construction. One contractor working in Fujian Province, who asked to remain anonymous for fear of retribution, said in an interview that he was forced to compromise on building materials in order to make a profit.

~ snip ~

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If America is going to create a useful and safe high speed rail system, we will need a good set of watchdogs, and a good set of watchdog watchers. Fortunately, our openness (at least relative to China) and subsequent public pressure may help to keep corruption and incompetence down, but people are people, and SOME people are corrupt.

[liberal N proud]

1. Have what it takes?

Look at all the achievements America has accomplished in the past.

It is a shame if we do not have what it takes now to do these things. What we have is an obstructionist movement in America that is keeping a couple of antiquated industries alive by preventing Americans from doing what American do best, pioneer new technologies and excel at those we did not pioneer.

What we need to do to get the republicans on board with high speed rail is make it about defense. Then they will be all over it.

[FrodosPet]

3. I have no doubts about our technical capabilities

And we can be some of the hardest working people on the planet. It all comes down to the simple fact that, to do it CORRECTLY is going to require a lot of effort.

It requires ENORMOUS sums of money for land acquisition. It requires excellent quality road bed and bridges, superior quality rails, rail ties, track connectors, signals, rolling stock, wages, etc.

At such high speeds, hitting ANYTHING bigger and/or more solid than a mouse could be disastrous, so it has to be isolated from roads, wildlife, pedestrians...

There will be NIMBY fights, just like any road construction. People will be displaced from their homes.

And sometime down the road, something will go wrong, people will die, and people who support it may reduce their support.

It is doable, but it is going to take patience, perseverance, and whether or not the leaderless movement likes it, a strong and charismatic individual (or individuals) to pull it off.

[RC]

5. Our Interstate System was about Defense and look what we have now.

Safe road links from almost anywhere to almost anywhere at speeds of 70/75 mph, with no stops, instead of 55/65 with +intersections and traffic lights and going through the middle of every town you come to.
The Interstates bypass "Main Street".

For instance, I drove from Fargo ND to Kansas City MO (600 miles) in 10 hours, including pit stops. Try that with your standard 2 land state highway @ 55/65 MPH sometime.

Properly set up, high speed rail would make the same difference in that mode of travel.

[Old and In the Way]

2. Ask a Republican and he'll say regulations are the problem.

The human cost never enters into the equation, unless they themselves become a human cost statistic. What we apparently need is less oversight and more corruption and incompetence...just like the Chinese government..

[bananas]

4. Europe and Japan are really happy with their high-speed rail systems.

One of China's problems is they've grown so fast, they've had a hard time establishing regulations.
They used substandard cement because high quality cement couldn't be produced fast enough.
So in a few years, the tracks will start crumbling and have to be replaced, or speeds reduced.

An informative blog advocating the California High Speed Rail project: http://www.cahsrblog.com/
It's frequently updated and each post has many interesting comments added by others, both pro and con.