Many of you will just never understand

[boston bean]

The absolute gut punch, this nation gave to women on Nov 8th.

It hurt. But beyond that it was frightening. That a misognynist sexual assaulter was more acceptable than a well qualified woman for president of the united states..

A woman whose husband sins were visited upon his wife.

Men calling her crooked, corrupt, put her in jail.

When the sexual assaulter is the one who should be in jail.

Women understood their place in this society in an instant around 10pm of Nov. 8. And let me tell you it was unsettling, it was scary, and it is horrifying.

Until that date and time we may have been able to fool ourselves that we were pretty well on our way to equal.. we may have been... we may not have ever been... and how easily we can lose it...

Until womens rights are codified into the constitution of the united states we will always be on a less than level field but acceptable and less unequal, of men who out of the goodness of their heart allow us rights, until they decide no more...

[msongs]

1. tens of millions of women voters are ok with all that...unfortunately nt

[boston bean]

2. yeah, thanks for the reminder and support.

[jmg257]

16. It is amazing how passionate they are about their

Support for trump.

Just don't get it.

[Generator]

45. I read they don't want to be appear

weak. That they think that putting up with sexual harassment is just life. Like having your husband beat you sometimes used to be for women (I'm sure for some of them it still is). This is all they know. They are supporting their men-because they believe and know probably their lives depend on it. I came from a mother that was husband by my father and I never came to understand her. In the end (she's finally been released from this life) I think it was literally mental illness. All these women aren't mentally ill-but still-if you think that your not equal to men-what is that? Is that a normal way to think?

[erinlough]

54. The ones I know are manipulators and

Men are easier to manipulate than women in their mind. I worked with one before Trump even came along, she knew how to get what she wanted from a male boss and told me she hoped we would never have a woman boss because she wouldn't know how to manipulate her. I was curious who she would vote for in this election and sure enough she's a trumpster.

[GeoWilliam750]

20. It is easier to fool people,

than to convince them they have been fooled.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

3. K&R nt

[shraby]

4. I understood that, in no uncertain terms.

[Squinch]

5. Exactly.

[etherealtruth]

6. It is still difficult to believe

[leftofcool]

7. Yep.

Makes me damn glad to be an old crone pushing 70 because there is nothing that Dump can take away from me now.

[llmart]

11. I'm with you on that...

If younger women think the things our generation fought for and won for them can't disappear in a heartbeat, they are sadly mistaken. I am nearing 70 myself and they can pick up the mantle now.

[pangaia]

21. Don't be too sure about that.

Repubs are really good at do doing just that.

[Paka]

51. He can take away your social security.

I had to leave the US in order to live on mine, and if it goes, I'm shit up the creek. Fortunately in a country that wouldn't let me starve and I don't have to fear the police if I sleep in the street.

[Barack_America]

8. It is possible to feel gutted by this election, and to not have had Hillary...

...as one's preferred candidate.

It seems that is also something that many here, "will just never understand".

[boston bean]

9. Start a thread.

[Barack_America]

10. That's the collaborative, post-primary, forward-thinking spirit Skinner was asking for.

That enthusiastic and open-minded approach will surely catapult the Democratic Party towards future success.

I shall now return to my daily existence of having my face ground into the still intact glass ceiling.

Thanks also for your support.

[boston bean]

12. I have a thread discussing womens rights. You want to discuss something else

open your own thread. I'll be happy to participate.

[obamanut2012]

57. Like Boston Bean said, start your own thread

I am so tired of mansplaining hijacking threads on women's issues and actions and thoughts.

[Barack_America]

58. How do you mansplain to a woman?

[Bettie]

13. They've been working on it for more than 25 years

that much propaganda simply can not be easily overcome.

She never did anything wrong. But it didn't matter because we don't control the narrative.

And to get their guy in, even with that negative PR campaign, they still had to suppress the vote, arrange a last minute dirty trick, and get help from Russians. That tells you something about the power of that one woman and explains why they went to such lengths to shut her down.

So, yeah, it was a horrible moment. It is an ongoing horrible moment as we realize that our society is being pulled down around us.

But now we know. We have a clarity that wasn't there before.

We know that sexism is a MUCH larger issue than we thought it was.

We know that racism is a MUCH larger issue than we thought it was.

We know that a lot of kinds of hate are a much larger issue than we thought. They have so much hate.

The masks have been taken off and we can see them for who they are.

We now know who the enemy is because they show us at every turn. Make no mistake, they are the enemy.

We need to get those who don't participate in elections to vote. This will wake some of them up and we don't need very many to turn the tide. We need to ensure that people are allowed to vote and that those votes are counted, accurately.

But we all need to work together. That is not easy for a party as diverse as ours, we always disagree on the finer points, but on the large brushstrokes, we do agree, so we need to concentrate on those rather than the differences.

We can hammer differences out after we've got a win or two under our belts.

[Stonepounder]

17. Unfortunately there is an underbelly of white male supremacy in this country

that will take a LONG time to stamp out. We are in this battle for the long haul. Women, minorities, LGBT, non-Christians, and on and on. We all have to take up the cry of 'never give up'. I've been fighting the battle for equality and equal right for all for well over 50 years now. And I know sometimes it seems like the battle will never end. Maybe it won't, but we have to keep fighting, we have to have the attitude to 'never give up, never give in'. Sometimes it is just so disheartening. But we all need to pull up our big boy skivvies and our big girl panties and get back out there. If Trump can 'grab them by the pussies', I submit that we have a perfect right to 'kick 'em in the balls'!!

[Caliman73]

24. I respectfully disagree

It is not an underbelly. It is the superstructure and dwells right below the surface of almost every interaction in our society. Minority women have definitely had the worst of it. Minority males have the male thing to fall back on and White women have the White thing to fall back on. I do agree that we have to unite to replace the superstructure with one that includes the experiences and the values of everyone in our society.

[stevenleser]

40. I don't think that privilege works the way you are describing.

Neither men of color nor white women have the men or white thing to "fall back on".

Straight white christian males are treated in the manner of what should be "Normal" for everyone. Everyone else deals with varying degrees of bias. Women, no matter their race, and people of color no matter their gender have it pretty bad. The fact that women of color have it worse than just about everyone else doesn't mean men of color or white women have it good in any way.

[Caliman73]

43. Privilege works exactly as I described

There are always intersections and hierarchical structures within privilege. People other than White Protestant Well off Straight men have borne a heavier load, but there are privileges that those other groups have. I am an educated Latino man from a middle class family. I can tell you right now that though I have faced discrimination and bigotry, that I have had advantages over a great deal of women and many men, including poor White, Muslim, or gay men because I was born with resources, a christian, straight, and a man. There are groups of people that have it way worse than I do, just because of who they are and how that has affected what they can do.

Also, I was not disagreeing with the post in general. I was pointing out that White Supremacy was not a bug in the American system, it is the foundation.

[stevenleser]

44. What you just wrote is different than what you wrote before. I agree with this latest statement.

I am mixed White, Latino, African American, Jewish and Native.

I can't "Fall back on" any particular part of that. People are going to react to what they want to react to about me at any given time.

Yes, I have it worse than some people, and better than others, there is no question about that and the other things you wrote about intersections, but it isn't like I can choose to fall back on something at any given particular time.

[qwlauren35]

48. I don't agree.

Attractive white women in America have opportunities that most of us would only dream of. If you marry a nice rich white man, you've hit the jackpot. I mean really, what did Melania Trump have going for her?

Some white women have it VERY good in this country.

[RayOfHope]

60. Yes, yet think of this

I was listening to some political discussion on NPR several weeks ago. Arguably Hillary has it pretty good. Money, power, education, etc. One of the panelists said (paraphrase) "can you imagine if Hillary had 5 children by 3 different husbands, like Trump? She would have been told to not even think about running for elected office in the first place".

It can still suck for all women in general, even rich white women.

But I am also not disagreeing with you that yes, rich white women have resources and opportunities that most people will never have and have it better than any other group of women and also men of color.

[Lucinda]

14. KNR

[JI7]

15. it was mostly angry racist white men and many white women who are married to them

race has A LOT to do with it.

these people were angry at dreamers, blm, refugees etc and wanted someone who would hurt and destroy them .

[AKGirl86]

18. Preaching to the choir

Well said.

[progree]

19. Interesting CNN exit poll - White women voted for Trump over Clinton by a 9 point margin

Last edited Sat Jan 21, 2017, 02:38 AM - Edit history (1)

52-43

http://www.cnn.com/election/results/exit-polls/national/president

[SunSeeker]

25. And it says white female college grads voted 51 Hillary, 44 Trump. nt

[SunSeeker]

22. K & R

[OrwellwasRight]

23. How about

calling out the bullshit without making ourselves lesser thans? I'm a woman. Trump is a pig. That takes nothing from me. I don't feel punched or scared or unsettled. I've lost nothing. Nobody takes something away from you that you don’t give them.

I'm every bit as dignified and strong and powerful as I was on Nov. 7. Anyone who disagrees can lump it because I take a backseat to no one, Trump or no Trump.

[Phoenix61]

26. Well said

[OrwellwasRight]

30. Thank you

[SMC22307]

52. Thank you... I feel the same way.

[Imajika]

27. Hillary got like 2.8 million more votes than Trump...

..she just had too many voters clustered in too few places.

The majority of the country preferred Hillary for President, and quite frankly, she isn't a particularly charismatic person and yet still won the popular vote.

I really wouldn't read THAT much into this result. If Trump had really won a convincing victory (which he didn't) then maybe your argument would make more sense - but considering MORE people, more actual voters, wanted her as President seems to indicate this result is just due to our effed up electoral vote system.

And again, Hillary may have been the most qualified candidate in a very long time, but she just isn't a great pure politician like her husband is. She has a hard time connecting, and yet she still won 2.8 million more votes.

[progree]

31. I have a female friend who is obsessed about this - that Hillary is some chump for sticking

with a guy that cheated on her. That she's not good enough even for Bill's ____, so why should I vote for her?

I'm serious. I tell her we don't know all the dynamics of that relationship, and for being a "chump" she managed to be a senator and Secretary of State and getting 2.8 million more votes than her opponent etc. And then I go over far far far far more important issues that were at stake in the election. To no avail.

She didn't vote -- hasn't for decades. Doesn't like Trump either (thank god).

[Motown_Johnny]

34. So someone you know, who never votes doesn't like Hillary.

I still don't see how that could have had any effect on the election. Your friend doesn't vote.


I seriously doubt that any measurable percentage of the electorate voted for Trump because Bill cheated on Hillary decades ago.


Your friend is just rationalizing her unwillingness to participate in our system. She probably knows so little about issues that she simply uses what she knows as her excuse.

It was Hillary's lack of credibility on trade issues that had swing voters in PA, MI and WI (and OH for that matter) vote for the candidate who they believed might save their jobs. You can't blame Bill for that.

[progree]

37. Interestingly she was all fired up to vote for Bernie, if he was the G.E. candidate

As for why she's obsessed about the Bill-Hillary relationship dynamic, I don't know, it is unfathomable to me.

The Trumpsters did bring up Bill and Juanita Broaddrick, Kathleen Willey, and Paula Jones, including having them attend one of the debates, so apparently they don't agree that Bill was a non-issue.

[Skittles]

32. OMFG

that REALLY went way, WAY over your head

YOU SOUND LIKE A FUCKING REPUKE

[Motown_Johnny]

35. Then please explain it to me instead of insulting me.

Just exactly how were her husband's "sins" visited upon her?

[BainsBane]

50. Most blatantly

When Trump called a news conference right before the debate with a number of women Bill had had affairs with, then seated them in the audience.

[StevieM]

36. Shame on you for repeating GOP lies concerning the fake email scandal. (eom)

[Cha]

29. Mahalo, boston.. that's why this Women's March is so

Important tomorrow.. and understandably why so many Women are angry Hillary's name was left off the Honorees.

It caused a bigger stink and more Women sticking up for Hillary than if they would have just added her name. And, those of many other women who should be honored.

As someone wrote.. their "list was puny".



Where's was Michelle's name.. Susan B Anthony's among many who were omitted.

[RBInMaine]

33. Sadly, millions of WOMEN voted for Trump, or Stein, or Johnson, or didn't vote at all. Also,

MILLIONS of WOMEN also called Hillary a "crook" and said "she should be in jail" too. Sad but entirely TRUE.

Don't get me wrong. Yes, sexism still exists. But let's just look at the ENTIRE picture here and be fair and complete. There was no one reason why Clinton lost the electoral vote.

[Silver Gaia]

47. Oh, that was part of it, too. I felt betrayed by my own gender.

But the full realization of that came later. It wasn't a part of the pain and shock we felt on the evening of November 8, which is, I think, what this thread is about.

[hamsterjill]

38. Awesome post!

This 58-year old woman understands completely and felt the punch.

[Maru Kitteh]

39. Kicking, boston bean

Thank you for posting this.

[nolabear]

41. We will use this to rise. And THRIVE.

[Generator]

42. I would hope ANYONE that comes to DU

understands this. I had to explain to my daughter that women are always more vulnerable than men-she knows this but she hasn't livid it yet as a teen (some younger older women have never really experienced the reality of not having choices over your life and body either) and that's why there has to be a women's march.

[Silver Gaia]

46. You nailed it, boston bean.

That is exactly how I felt, how my daughter felt, how every woman I know felt. I felt like I'd been slapped and told to sit down, that I (we) wasn't "good enough." And for that misogynist predatory "pussy-grabber" to be the one preening and gloating over this just made it more painful and incredibly hard to accept. My whole worldview crumbled. I am still not recovered from the shock and devastation I felt on election evening, and I don't think I ever really will. Something within me has cracked. I'm broken.

[retrowire]

49. Thank you for putting it in these words.

I thought I kind of understood. I knew I couldn't REALLY because I'm a white male, straight up.

But, this definitely brings my understanding closer! And I'm grateful for having heard it in this way.

Thank you.

[liquid diamond]

53. Didn't 52% of white women vote for this asshole?

[Flatpicker]

56. That's what gets me

Look at the numbers and you can't really say it was all white men.

Women in general gave him 42%
White women gave him 53%
Non-College educated white women gave him 62%

How you can vote against your own interests, is something I don't understand. This guy was anti women from day 1.

What really hurt was turnout in key locations. That, I throw at Hillary's feet.
Not her emails, not her husband, not fake benghazi scandals.

Just, given the choice between going out to vote for Hillary or staying home (or at work), people chose the latter.

The problem with being a Democrat is that you have to engage them for longer and excite them. They don't fall in line and automatically do their duty on election day. In that way, she wasn't able to grab their attention. Obama did. Maybe it was the message, maybe it was the delivery, but he was able to grab the mindshare.
Hillary was steady, but steady doesn't bring butts to the seats (so to speak).

I really don't think it was a man vs woman thing. I don't think Hillary's campaigning style would have worked even had it come from a man. Not her fault really, it's hard to campaign on "you like the last 8 years? We can give you more of it." against the PT Barnum rhetoric that DT was spewing. WE knew it's BS, but it's entertaining BS for the masses.

The Democratic party needs a shakeup now, not because the beliefs are wrong, but because the party itself is coming off as boring.
That may change after DT wrecks things and the ebb and flow of history comes our way.

Look at it like this, since the 80's, no party (with the exception of the Bush sr term that was terrible) has been able to keep the POTUS for more than 2 terms. The public loses interest or the message fails due to it not being active.

[liquid diamond]

59. Thank you for your brilliant post.

I especially love this sentence:
"I really don't think it was a man vs woman thing."

That's exactly what I was thinking last night. It's so easy to point fingers and blame the patriarchy instead of looking at our own faults.

I admit that I was a little complacent once Donald Trump's remarks and harassment towards women were exposed. I asked how could any woman regardless of their political beliefs vote for such an asshole.

Why vote for someone that is out to hurt you? I don't know if it's stupidity or masochism, but I guess almost half of the female electorate just see themselves as inferior to men and love being treated like shit.

Jews for Hitler indeed.

[Xipe Totec]

55. You'll never know how much that outcome hurt me

I ambled about dazed for a week, trying to absorb the full impact of what had just happened.