Sadly, polls show more Americans support Trump's Muslim ban (48%) than are against it (41%)

[Fast Walker 52]

though at least it doesn't crack 50% support

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/01/31/reuters_ipsos_muslim_ban_poll_finds_support_for_order.html

It's depressing that so many people are either falling for the demagoguery or don't understand the EO.

[kentuck]

1. I can believe that.

But that doesn't make it right.

[Fast Walker 52]

2. Indeed... same old story for our side...

[ebbie15644]

3. This may not be popular but

I think we need to keep the focus on "bread and butter" issues. I hate this ban but I am hopeful the courts will overturn it as it's written. Five justices overturned it and I have hope that they will prevail. Dems have to hold Repubs to the fire on education, Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid. Also on healthcare and women's choice.

[JCanete]

5. I don't think we can back away from this. People will change their mind, but if

we don't push back, it will take a whole lot longer for that to happen, and the consent manufactured out of muting ourselves will not do the future of our party, or the nation, any favors.

[hollowdweller]

9. I don't think we can back away either but...

I want to see as many people protesting about raising the min wage, healthcare and family leave as the muslim ban. THAT will get us the votes we need to get back in gov't.

[JCanete]

10. I hear that. nt

[ebbie15644]

12. To get him out, we have to show HIS voters that he's let them down.

They are applauding this crap right now

[nikibatts]

16. If we don't come up with the points to counter the populist message of "they are taking our jobs"

More people will be for such bans than against them. It's more complicated than it appears. The GOP uses fear and bigotry which result in simple messages that are appealing to to the poor and disenfranchised.

The message doesn't have to be true, verifiable in the correct context. It just has to sound like it is something that hurts them. Take the Estate Tax for example. How many Trump supporters would be out marching to repeal the Estate Tax not even knowing that it doesn't even affect them unless they are leaving an estate worth 5Million or more? But it sounds right to them because of the way the RW presents it. If it were called the Tax on Millionaires it would get a different response.

Really, we should be banning robots instead of people. I visited a McDonalds in DC two days ago (DC where young black males are begging for jobs) and was pointed to a kiosk that took my order and since i paid by credit card, I didn't even have to deal with a live person. WTF?? A total of one person was at the intake counter and three people in the kitchen and one of them was serving as the bus person also. But you can get many Trump supporters to believe that McDonald jobs are either be sent to Mexico or being taken by undocumented Mexicans in the states. BTW, has anyone spoken to a live telephone operator recently?

[JCanete]

4. wow, seriously? That IS depressing, not that I fully trust those polls, but shit...nt

[bettyellen]

6. People have no idea about the extreme vetting we have or that it's green card holders ...

[pangaia]

26. They don't even know what a Green Card is or how one gets it.

[bettyellen]

27. And if they did the govt is lying about it and they'd believe those darned green card holders are

Getting away with shit. Little do they know it's actually themselves who have been producing the terrorists.

[uponit7771]

7. CORRECTION: The question was never about a ban on Muslims it was shrouded in other shit

[hollowdweller]

8. Here's my theory

About a quarter to a third of Trump supporters are racist.

However the others felt left out. They weren't sure about Trump but knew he'd probably mess the gov't up. So it was like they didn't care if he fucked up the Washington they just wanted to lash out to "punish" the gov't.

Same way with the ban. I think people think if we punish the middle east by denying them access to the US they will change their behavior. Only thing is Saudi and Sunni are more terrorists than Shiite and the ban actually punishes the branch that is not really at war with us.

Then trade. I think most people probably know trade has helped the economy, and gave us lower prices, but it has not helped THEM. So they figure they want to punish companies by denying them markets since they are not sharing the wealth.

[onenote]

11. Look behind the headline grabbing result at the individual questions. You'll feel somewhat better

Also, 5.5% more Republicans in poll than Democrats.


http://www.ipsos-na.com/download/pr.aspx?id=16379

For example: Which of the following is closer to your opinion - Banning people from Muslim countries is necessary to prevent terrorism or The United States should continue to take in immigrants and refugees? 43 percent agreed with the first statement, 44 percent agreed with the second.

Or: It is fine to subject people from Muslim countries to extra scrutiny if it prevents attacks or Singling out a group based on religion violates American principles? 39 percent agree with the former statement, 44 percent believe its a violation of American principles.

Or: The United States should open our borders to refugees of foreign conflicts. 46% agree, 42% disagree

Finally: The United States should welcome Christian refugees, but not Muslim ones. 57 percent disagree, only 28% agree.

[KittyWampus]

19. Thank You. I honestly wonder if some of this is intentionally trying to demoralize us.

Not the OP'er specifically. I'm talking about the way the headline was slanted.

[LenaBaby61]

32. Also, 5.5% more Republicans in poll than Democrats.

Yep, that's an Ipsos poll

Leaning right

[uponit7771]

33. +1

[NewJeffCT]

13. Not surprising

most people don't know the history of immigration and how this differs from what Obama and Carter did before.

[libtodeath]

14. Cheatos illigetimate election shows that half the country is racist.

[NurseJackie]

15. Sure. Why not? I can definitely believe those numbers. #Sad #Believable #Embarrassing

[ck4829]

17. Clash Hypothesis in action

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028578337

[KittyWampus]

18. TOTALLY misleading headline. Don't be demoralized. Click on link and read what actually is said.

[Trekologer]

22. We can chip away at the somewhat agree and strengthen the disagrees

Framing the EO as "un-American", "against our values", and highlighting the people caught up in it: green card holders (legal immigrants) and those who risked their lives and their families lives to assist us.

Going into the weeds a bit by also highlighting the process that refugees already go through--it already is extreme vetting and Trump is lying to you about the current process.

[Fast Walker 52]

23. I didn't mean to mislead...48% agreed at least partially with the order, but yes, only 26% strongly

agreed. I just was posting to let people know this was out there.

[hunter]

20. A shocking number of U.S. Americans would have been perfectly happy living under Nazi rule.

Philip K. Dick's "The Man in the High Castle," and the Amazon television series based on the book, expose a terrible reality.

[Gothmog]

21. Civil rights are not determined by polls or popular support

[Ms. Toad]

24. It's not that they don't understand the EO

They are irrationally scared (hyped by alt-right tripe), and can't get past their own terrow to think rationally.

They honestly believe that there is no vetting now - so it is critically important to get vetting in place to stop anyone coming in until we can get procedures in place to vet people.

When I point out the process they go through already, if it is something a responsible journalist put togther, they don't trust that it is factual because they don't recognize the difference between old-school journalism with its deep reverence for truth and accuracy and what passes for news now from far too many sources including, I'm sorry to say, many on the left.

I have managed to find a conservative site that describes the vetting - that at least gives me a starting point. But in two conversations it has taken hours to get to the point where they will acknowledge that we don't currently have an open border with these 7 countries.

I've been actively reporting fake news on facebook. I've reported almost as many left-leaning stories as I have right-leaning. (And there was a thread on here actively suggesting we need to start our own fake news stories.)

NO. Just no. It is hard enough when I have to fight fake news from the right to get to what we both agree is factual, before we can talk about how to react to the facts. Forcing me to explain why I trust certain sources implicitly (by using fake news on our side) - and having to distiguish reputable news sources from the left-wing equivalent of faux news is not helpful.

[Fast Walker 52]

25. wow, thanks for working so hard on this-- all great points

this order is so incredibly evil and while it's heartening so many people see the problem, it's so frustrating to see the rightwing disinfo on it and so many people buying into it. But it's a microcosm of the whole Trump problem.

Empathy versus being scared versus facts versus fake news. Oy.

[Ms. Toad]

28. I have five facebook friends who are Trump supporters

At least that I know of. Two from medical support communities I belong to & one is my spouse's cousin.

My first inclination when those three open their mouths is to just delete their posts. I've been restraining myself - out of respect for our relationships on other things, but it has been hard. Two of the three (wtihin the last week), and the third (a year or two ago) have told me that I'm the only liberal they can stand to talk to because I don't just swear at them or act like they're stupid. In each instance, I've been able to make small inroads, at least as to what the truth is.

But it takes every fiber of my being to do that.

The other two are polar oppostes. One is a high school classmate who occasionally posts a mad smiley in response to something I've said - but otherwise leaves me alone. The last is one I just don't know how to handle. She's way too bright to get completely sucked in by the alternative facts, and she has enough at state that she should be on our side (LGBT & had a daughter adopted from a non-european country). She makes me mad enough that I've just unollowed her so I don't have to see the daily trickle of Trump adoration.

Sigh. Before the two recent comments that suggest it might be worth it to continue talking I was about to check out. Now I guess I gotta keep working.

[Fast Walker 52]

34. I hear you... I have a few Trump voting relatives that I've engaged with on Facebook

One (my very liberal mother's sister!) is just impossible, just spouts foxnews talking points, is totally obnoxious, can't be reasoned with at all. She is the type who is just happy that Trump is pissing off liberals, no matter what other damage he might do (that she won't admit).

A second, my cousin, really doesn't engage, just avoid the issues for the most part, but will try to correct some minor things I've posted. On her posts, she has a lot of Trump supporter friends who are pretty crazy, and her husband is a Trump supporter and super obnoxious, just basically a big bully. There's no reasoning with him. He's totally bought into the whole liberals are dumb/evil mindset.

The third (my very liberal dad's cousin), I go back and forth with a lot. She's not dumb but has been suckered into to so much rightwing crap, it's exhausting to try to counter it.

I really try to be patient and nice and argue facts, but wow, it is hard.

[Ms. Toad]

37. Exhausting is about the size of it.

But necessary. We have to pull enough away to take control back, and any that might be pulled only hold on tighter if we keep calling them stupid.

[tavernier]

29. I do not believe this.

Sorry, I think this is BS.

[MFM008]

30. after the debacle of polling in 2016

who the hell still believes in polls?????????????????????????

[Fast Walker 52]

35. that's true... didn't think of that. Though the poll doesn't surprise me too much either.

[question everything]

31. If slavery were still in vogue, how many, do you think would support it?

Most voters are dumb, as we've seen recently. They do not choose to study an issue, they like short, simple sentences with "action" words. Words like "stupid" and "hell" and superlatives, the more the better.

[Fast Walker 52]

36. yes, true... maybe that should be the baseline question for every poll, just to figure the level of

horrible people that should be ignored.

[MFM008]

41. I would bet 10 dollars

the same states that used slavery before.............

[Tatiana]

38. People were once in favor of segregation too.

But, with education and concerted effort, the public was persuaded. Same for women's suffrage, gay rights, and a host of other issues.

We can't let ourselves get depressed about it. We have to keep putting the truth out there and confronting demagoguery.

[MADem]

39. Word the question differently and you get a different response. Slightly.

That's from the bottom of the page of the article...

[Fast Walker 52]

40. Several hundred people marching in downtown #HuntingtonWV in protest of the refugee ban.

Link to tweet

[Blaukraut]

42. Irrelevant. The ban is unconstitutional. That's all that matters.

[qanda]

43. It says a lot about how racist this nation is

They are more afraid of something that hasn't happened yet than the gun violence that is happening every single day in our country.

[Azathoth]

44. Bank on it: his immigration antics are going to be his most popular

That's a bitter issue that cuts deeply across many voting blocks.

[yuiyoshida]

45. Is America that stupid or are the Polls manufactured?

Than again, with all the people brainwashed by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, all these years, who knows.