When unions thrived, so did workers. When workers thrived, so did the country.

[nikibatts]

Since the end of the great Depression when taxes were three times higher on the wealthy, the economy grew. When all ships were being lifted the nation was lifted. Things weren't perfect but they weren't like they are now. ALL people had some hope and the country felt united and patriotic.

As the wealth gap increased so did injustice, poverty, inhumanity, spousal and child abuse, murder and suicide. What am I missing? Why are we in this state of chaos, in some kind of alternate universe, with alternate facts.

[guillaumeb]

1. 70% of the GDP is consumer spending. As consumer spending falls, GDP falls or stagnates.

But the GOP, with the help of the corporate media, is very skilled at framing the debates.

[lapfog_1]

2. Yes, this is the fundamental issue with the "new economy"

We are not a capital driven economy... which is why all the trickle down bullshit is the world won't change anything. You could cut the top tax rate and cap gains tax rate to zero and the economy will only show a small bubble bump (as richer people buy hard assets like land and such).

But the economy is driven by consumers. Take away the consumers ability to buy stuff (especially manufactured goods) and the economy goes into slow decline. We have papered this over for the last 30 years by increasing the population (driving some consumer demand back into the economy). But every boom/bust cycle created by wall street as the aging baby boomers try desperately to do better than their parents generation (using a housing bubble to finance their consumer desires by taking out risky mortgages on the inflated value of their homes), just takes us closer to the great depression.

To get out of this we have to go back to the financial system of the 1950s and 1960s (high tax rates on the wealthy) AND figure out how to keep the lower to middle class employed in jobs that provide better than subsistence living. In the age of automation, I'm not sure how we do that. But that's what we have to do.

[frazzled]

3. Well, not everyone thrived

Last edited Tue Feb 7, 2017, 12:40 AM - Edit history (1)

And I think it's somewhat dangerous to paint such a rosy, varnished picture of the past. It has a ring of "make America great again," and it ignores much of the suffering that many groups of people in this country endured across the years—inequities of income, inequities of opportunities, inequities of equality. Where there were always deep pockets of poverty and misery. Where backs were turned on the discrimination that existed based on color of skin or gender or sexual preference.

So while I am a strong supporter of the idea of unions—especially public sector unions, which have diminished dramatically— and what they can accomplish for workers, their benefits never extended to all, and there were problems within unions themselves that we certainly can't forget either, such as nepotism, occasionally corruption, and most certainly discrimination. If you were a black or Hispanic worker in America, the unions were in many cases closed to you. And discrimination is a problem that persists in some union sectors even today:

Their union, Local 28 of the Sheet Metal Workers, was featured this year in advertising highlighting the changing face of the construction industry. “Opportunity. Diversity. Middle class careers,” reads one of the ads run by the city’s building trades association. “This is what union construction looks like.” . . . But the multiracial tableau obscures a stark racial divide: The union’s white members have received more work and larger pensions, data show. In contrast, minority members, who have lagged for decades, often struggle to find steady jobs and to earn enough credit to retire on time with full pensions.

The union stands as a case study of how workplace discrimination has persisted in corners of the construction trades, according to federal officials, even as unions have become increasingly diverse.

Forty-four years after the Justice Department originally sued Local 28 for refusing to admit minority workers, the union no longer bars nonwhites from membership, as it once did. Instead, the federal court has found, the local has consistently denied work opportunities to black and Hispanic members. The bias — more subtle and complex than in an earlier era — endures in the midst of the city’s building boom, officials say.

Similar allegations have emerged in lawsuits filed against a pipe fitters union in Chicago and an operating engineers local in New York City, among others. An operating engineers union in Philadelphia and an ironworkers local in New York City, also accused of discriminating against minorities, remain under court supervision, as does Local 28.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/21/nyregion/minority-sheet-metal-workers-in-new-york-start-getting-back-pay-after-decades-of-bias.html?_r=0

We need, I think, to re-envision unions for the 21st century—and not simply look back with longing on periods that were as much filled with corruption and discrimination as they were times for uplifting some classes of people. We need more and stronger unions that are committed to openness, fairness, and the needs of society as a whole; that embrace the new reality in which most workers do not spend their time in mills and building sites but in service jobs such as home health care and higher education and retail; that balance workers rights with the public good; that fully support equality of opportunity for women and peoples of color.

All the ships were not lifted. It's time to readjust.

[hollowdweller]

4. Unions screwed up

When we were battered by global trade unions presided over many of their members losing jobs, pay and benefits. That would have been the 80's.

However then in the 90's when the economy came back the unions were unable to recapture any of the lost benefits or money and it all went to the wealthy.

They reflexively supported democrats and democratic politicians without asking enough in return for their support.

So the republicans say they will support sending brown people home and also protect their rights to guns. Many union members think now that the GOP is protecting them more than their unions are.

Now union members make only slightly more and have slightly better working conditions than non union ones. They routinely vote for politicians who are for right to work and repeal of prevailing wage laws.

Sad but true. I think the turning point came in the Clinton years. First you had NAFTA, second Brady Bill and Assault Weapons ban.

A strong union movement would solve so many problems here in the US. We would not need to worry about low wages, lack of retirement securty or health care because employees could get these with no gov't middleman.

Unions are on the way out now though and it's sad. Both the Gov't and unions aren't trusted anymore to do anything for people, and we know that companies will not do it out of the goodness of their hearts.

[Buckeyeblue]

6. Agreed

The old guard of the unions worked hard to keep innovation out of the factories, as they saw it as a mechanism to get rid of workers. This set back American manufacturing. Which caused the decline of the factory. We are talking 80's here. Then non- union factories like Honda started in this country and showed people that you could have a decent non- union company.

Hindset is typically perfect, but if the old union had embraced innovation and insisted on having a spot at the table when it was being implemented a lot of shit would be different today. Unions would have become more like partners (much like it sounds like Ford and the UAW are).

The old union served a great purpose. People were dying at work and factories had no accountability. Unions changed that. Unions kept people from being fired without reason. Unions helped integrate.

But once we got passed those problems the powerful union continued to exist mainly to exist. As we all know, with great power comes great responsibility, and the unions were remiss in theirs.

[madokie]

5. We are in this mess today

because of dumb asses voting for the likes of st ronnie the raygun, poppy bush, little boots and now the dick head tRump