When undocumented workers use Social Security numbers

[SHRED]

Do they just make up a number?
Do they use a number no longer active (deceased)?
Do they use an active number?

Just using a SS is not necessarily a full identity theft is it?

I ask because I'm debating a rightwinger who claims it's full on identity theft.

[gordianot]

1. Knowing someone who ended up with a 1099 for work they did not do.

Yes it is full on identity theft. Do not ever screw around with Social Security numbers!

[CanonRay]

2. It is a felony in Title 42

To use a social security number that is not assigned to you, regardless of whether you make one up, steal someone else's or buy a fake. The biggest problem that results is whenough someone uses a real active number belonging to another. This can result in messed up credit, notices from IRS saying you earned money you did not report etc. Happened to my niece, for one.

[TrekLuver]

3. No matter what it is still not a violent offense. Trashpot said he would not rip families apart

period and polls show that most Americans only agree with deporting violent criminals. Perhaps if we had addressed this situation 20+ years ago "illegals" wouldn't be FORCED to do some "illegal" things so they can get work.

[guillaumeb]

4. It is identity theft.

But if an undocumented immigrant used your personal Social Security number, you would get the earnings credit. It is not as if the undocumented worker could collect on your account.

[Nay]

5. You would get the earnings credit, but the IRS would want to know why that

wage was not reported on your federal taxes. It's a mess for people whose SSN has been stolen.

[guillaumeb]

6. I agree and understand that aspect,

but often I hear claims about millions of undocumented workers supposedly collecting SS payments.

[PoliticAverse]

7. There was actually a recent (2009) Supreme Court case related to this issue...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/05/us/05immig.html

[underpants]

9. Yes, ID theft. This may help too - ITIN's Individaul Tax Identification Numbers

Commonly used by immigrant workers. They pay taxes (they all do except for a few working completely under the table) with these and it basically moves them to the back of th enforcement line.

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/facts-about-individual-tax-identification-number-itin

[crazycatlady]

10. Some use their (US born) minor children's SSNs

[SHRED]

11. Here is how I responded to the rightwinger

The current President himself promised not to tear families apart and to focus limited ICE resources on serious and violent undocumented criminals. I agree with that. With his immigration Executive Order his promise has vanished.
Communities are less safe now that less ICE resources are available to go after criminals.
Communities are less safe for fear of reporting crime and being deported themselves.
Policing by local law enforcement becomes less safe with this intensified mistrust with the communities they patrol.

These are few of the consequences of this change and.what is now happening.

Yes undocumented workers using fake Social Security numbers is a felony. I'm not excusing that. What I am saying is that either we build huge detention facilities (Section 5, article (a) of Trump's Executive Order) spend billions more, and essentially crackdown in a police-state fashion that tears apart otherwise law abiding families and creates a chaos and mistrust in communities or we focus our current resources on serious violent undocumented immigrants. I choose the latter.

Also, Social Security has an E-Verify employers are suppose to use. The problem is that many don't and what many employers do instead is criminal. They hire illegally on purpose knowing the undocumented employee has no power (especially rampant in the construction field) and delay a week or two of paychecks with the promise of a bonus to complete the job. Job gets nearly done and they call ICE, job site is raided, and the employer gets to appear 'law abiding' while pocketing the pay theft. This is just one example of exploitation.
Also, every working person with a Social Security number, even if fake, contributes a portion of their pay into SS. Those using fake numbers or other's will never collect the SS money they contribute.
I'm not advocating for people residing here against the law and using SS numbers that aren't theirs, but what I am advocating is we establish a clear immigration policy that provides a clear path to working legally and/or citizenship. Such a bill was passed by the Senate a few years ago but the House held it up.
I am dead set against the rise of the current police-state that makes our country less safe.
It's about priorities and being decent humane people in my view.

[mwooldri]

12. Sorry, the right-winger is right here.

Making up a number isn't going to work with legitimate employers, thanks to e-verify. So they have to give a name and social and date of birth that corresponds with the owner of the social security number.

Yes, full-on ID theft is being performed here.

Employers breaking the law by knowingly filing false info are complicit in the ID theft.