You guys remember the conversation between Nately and The Old Man in "Catch 22?"

[MrScorpio]

I think that we might be living out the Old Man's prophecy of our eventual self-destruction as a great American power.

The bigger ya get, the harder it is to keep from falling. Plus, a weak nation like wartime occupied Italy doesn't have that far to fall, it's weakness allows it to persist, even under the boot of a great power.

Great scene in that movie.

Forty-seven years after it was released, here we are today. We're well on our way to tossing ourselves on the empirical ash heap, along with the Romans, the Persians and the Spaniards. It's going to be a hard fall.

It's as if we're losing the ability and willingness to maintain our own cohesive vastness. The rejection of knowledge and education, the promotion of power, incompetence and corruption are all problems that we're not trying to solve.

Trump represents a form of arrogance, self-destruction and even cannibalism that many believe we should inflict on ourselves. The pure callous and uncaring nature of this time is not reassuring.

Personally, because the stakes are so critical, devolution can represent an existential threat. It's well beyond the prospect of coming out of other side of this present crisis of being less prosperous, powerful and influential. We have to consider whether or not we would survive as a species on this planet. Talk about being too big to fail.

Where we'll end up in the space of 4-10 years is a mystery. No one knows. But what's clear is that we all must generate a cooperative and appropriate sense of urgency about, not only our national prospects, but global ones as well. Our biggest obstacles are the small minded and the self-serving who are in the positions of power.

It's those people who have sent us into this downward spiral and who must be reckoned with.

By the way, I would have loved to have posted the referenced video clip from the movie, in order to add emphasis, but I'm writing this OP on my iPod and it sucks to add vids.

I watched to movie again last night and that scene had me thinking about our present state of affairs all day. You can't beat the classics.

[Glamrock]

1. Here ya go....

[MrScorpio]

2. Thanks!

Love that scene.

[Glamrock]

3. No sweat.

That is a great scene. If only Art was a better actor.....

[MrScorpio]

4. Don't get me started on "Carnal Knowledge"

It won't be pretty.

[Glamrock]

5. Never saw it.....

But I was born that year....

Is it as bad as Mick Jagger in Freejack?

[MrScorpio]

6. Worse.

Way worse.

I've seen both.

[Warpy]

7. I've also had the nasty thought that wee Milo

was named for Milo Minderbinder, only he disappointed his parents by lacking any head for wheeling and dealing.

I doubt I'll be here in 10 years to see where we end up. I take a great deal of comfort from that.

[MrScorpio]

8. Milo Minderbinder had convictions

Milo Whateverthefuckhisnameis is a con artist.

[Hekate]

9. The day after Red Don was elected I said how we got from Obama to DT was an existential question

By the time his admin had begun shutting up scientists -- SCIENCE! -- I realized that the 21st Century was not going to be the American Century. Just not.

MAGA is a sick joke.

"We" didn't ask for this. We really did not. Yet here we are.

Cooperation is absolutely essential to our survival, yet still we have mischief makers on the left looking to form a 3rd party, and thus divide the Democrats. We need allies among conservatives, yet a post about John McCain speaking out in Munich garnered a slew of unforgiving responses.

The Resistance, fortunately, is composed of many more people than DU -- millions. They give me some hope. They really do.

[world wide wally]

10. The great American novel

[TomVilmer]

11. Film was great, but book is better

And all of that scene from the book is online for you.
... ‘I don’t believe anything you tell me,’ Nately replied, with a bashful mitigating smile. ‘The only thing I do believe is that America is going to win the war.’
‘You put so much stock in winning wars,’ the grubby iniquitous old man scoffed. ‘The real trick lies in losing wars, in knowing which wars can be lost. ...

[MrScorpio]

12. I had my own dog eared copy many years ago.

Unfortunately, it was long lost in the pages of time.

[BlueMTexpat]

13. For comparison's sake ...

The Roman Empire 27? BC? – 395 ?AD
395?AD –?480 AD (Western)
395?AD –?1453 AD (Eastern)
1204 AD - 1461 AD (Trebizond)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire

The Persian Empire (actually different empires/eras - some with overlaps)
Achaemenid Empire 550 BC–330 BC
Seleucid Empire 312 BC–63 BC
Parthian Empire 247 BC–224 AD
Sasanian Empire 224 AD–651 AD

It is important to note that while many of these empires referred to themselves as Persian, they were often ethnically ruled by Medes, Babylonians, or Parthians. Persian dynastic history was interrupted by the Arab Muslim conquest of Persia in 651 AD, establishing the even larger Islamic Caliphate, and later by the Mongol invasion.

The main religion of ancient Persia was the native Zoroastrianism, but after the seventh century, it was replaced by Islam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Empire

The Spanish Empire 1492 AD–1975 AD

It reached the peak of its military, political and economic power under the Spanish Habsburgs, through most of the 16th and 17th centuries, and its greatest territorial extent under the House of Bourbon in the 18th century, when it was the largest empire in the world. The Spanish Empire became the foremost global power of its time and was the first to be called the empire on which the sun never sets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Empire

The American Empire earliest date = 1776 AD-2017?

We have a LONG way to go even to be considered in the same group. But we've tried hard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_imperialism

A couple others to consider:

The Egyptian Empire - especially long and complex, beginning circa 3100 BC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egypt

The Chinese Empire 221 BC-1912 AD

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_of_China

The Caliphate 632 AD-1925

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliphate

The Mongol Empire 1206 AD–1368 AD
The shortest time span but one of the largest in terms of expansion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire

For fun: The Mongols - from John Green's Crash Course video

The Mughal Empire 1526–1540
1555–1857

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mughal_Empire

The Ottoman Empire 1299–1922/1923

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire

The Portuguese Empire 1415 AD-2002 AD

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Empire

The British Empire

The British Empire comprised the dominions, colonies, protectorates, mandates and other territories ruled or administered by the United Kingdom and its predecessor states. It originated with the overseas possessions and trading posts established by England between the late 16th and early 18th centuries. At its height, it was the largest empire in history and, for over a century, was the foremost global power. By 1913, the British Empire held sway over 412 million people, 23% of the world population at the time, and by 1920, it covered 35,500,000 km2 (13,700,000 sq mi), 24% of the Earth's total land area. As a result, its political, legal, linguistic and cultural legacy is widespread. At the peak of its power, the phrase "the empire on which the sun never sets" was often used to describe the British Empire, because its expanse around the globe meant that the sun was always shining on at least one of its territories.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire

The French Empire 1534 AD–1980 AD

The French colonial empire constituted the overseas colonies, protectorates and mandate territories that came under French rule from the 16th century onward. A distinction is generally made between the "first colonial empire", that existed until 1814, by which time most of it had been lost, and the "second colonial empire", which began with the conquest of Algiers in 1830. The second empire came to an end after the loss of bitter wars in Vietnam (1955) and Algeria (1962), and peaceful decolonization elsewhere after 1960.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_colonial_empire