General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsYes, We DO Think You ARE Stupid
I have often seen Democrats being chastised, lectured, even vilified for stating that Republican voters are stupid.
You think that we think you are dumber-than-dumb. And the fact is WE DO think exactly that. We dont call you brainless idiots in order to be provocative. We dont refer to you as dumb-asses because we are determined to anger you. We dont label you as mindless, low-IQ voters in an effort to be divisive or combative.
We do it because the evidence is in and it invariably points to the fact that you are every bit as undeniably stupid as we think you are.
The election of Donald Trump is the perfect case in point.
You were stupid enough to vote for a man who has always outsourced all of his own manufacturing jobs, because you believed he would bring YOUR outsourced job back.
You were stupid enough to listen to your Christian pastors when they told you a thrice-married, self-proclaimed pussy-grabber is an upstanding moral man, chosen by God himself to lead a nation.
You were stupid enough to think a man who tweets incoherent nonsense was intelligent enough to run an incredibly complex government in an increasingly complicated world.
You were stupid enough to support a man who stated outright that he intends to take your healthcare coverage away from you.
You were stupid enough to believe that a billionaire who has never in his entire life done anything for anyone other than himself had suddenly become a champion of those of you struggling to make ends meet.
You were stupid enough to elect a man who has a very long history of cheating hard-working Americans people like yourselves out of their fees for materials delivered, and services rendered.
We Democrats are not contrary to your stupidly-held beliefs all over-educated Ph.D.s who sip $24 lattes between Mensa meetings. We are not elitists who spend our time looking down our noses at the less educated, especially in view of the fact that many of us are no better educated, nor financially well-off, than you are.
The difference between us is that we Democrats look beyond the political rhetoric in order to find the facts, while you simply swallow whatever bullshit is spewed by FOX-News, or Rush Limbaugh even Alex Jones. We have the common sense to know that in todays world, those facts are as close as a mouse-click away. We understand that the truth is out there, if only you have the minimal intellectual capacity it takes to find it.
So, yes, we DO think youre stupid because you are. You demonstrate it daily. You are the people who think Obama was president on 9/11, the people who believe that illegals working 12-hour days in the fields are stealing your six-figure-per-annum jobs, the people who believe that the Bowling Green Massacre actually happened.
What else are we to think, other than that you are unbelievably, mind-bogglingly, beyond-all-imagining, STUPID? How are we supposed to ignore your incredible, self-imposed ignorance? Why should we pretend that people who are still complaining about Obamas botched response to Katrina (which happened more than three years before he was in office) are anything more than dumber-than-dumb ignoramuses who lack the necessary skill to interpret something as complicated as a calendar?
Look, the truth is YOU ARE STUPID. And whats worse, you are actually proud of being stupid. So dont blame us for pointing out what you yourselves have gone out of your way to make obvious. Don't wave your stupidity around like a neon flag if you don't want anyone to notice it. Don't regurgitate quotes from people proven to be liars if you want to be perceived as people capable of independent thought - or even common sense.
There is, of course, a way to stop being called stupid. You can always try NOT being stupid.
Its so crazy, it just might work.
3catwoman3
(24,044 posts)As you always do.
iluvtennis
(19,871 posts)NCjack
(10,279 posts)Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)I tellya,, they have a some kinda Brain rot disease or syndrome.
NCjack
(10,279 posts)Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)u can chose to be ignorant but being stupid is not personal choice..... there is something more going on and the only thing i can think of that woiuld explain it, is some sort of brain dysfunction !
Merlot
(9,696 posts)Though I would say that some people are ignorant, which is curable with facts. There really isn't a cure for stupid.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,437 posts)or, worse, proud of it.
Kimchijeon
(1,606 posts)[img][/img]
SHRED
(28,136 posts)I'd change the word capacity to curiosity.
Well done though.
Pacifist Patriot
(24,654 posts)WePurrsevere
(24,259 posts)but choose not to due lack of curiosity, as you mentioned, or a lack of critical thinking skills.
Why should they actually think and research when they can have someone who pretends to 'know' things spoon feed them what they want them to know. As long as they tell Trump voters what they want to hear, confirming their prejudice and ignorance while stoking their fears and stroking their egos, they're happy. Pfft!
LW1977
(1,236 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)drm604
(16,230 posts)and real massacres are fictional.
Initech
(100,102 posts)#alternatefacts
world wide wally
(21,754 posts)I can't get through a thought like that without throwing in at least a dozen "F" bombs.
griloco
(832 posts)He's telling ME the truth
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)herding cats
(19,567 posts)Many of them believed the Sandy Hook shooting was fake. It was all staged because Democrats want to take their guns.
News Flash: If you're stupid and heartless enough to believe that, I do want to take your guns away. You're a danger to society!
Canoe52
(2,949 posts)NBachers
(17,136 posts)No "staying home to make a statement," or "alternative *cough*cough* candidate" bullshit.
Who's in office right now?
NanceGreggs
(27,818 posts)As long as the "smart" voters are more interested in "making a statement" than actually keeping someone like Trump out of office, the Stupid will prevail ...
... which begs the question: Just how "smart" are the statement-makers, the stay-at-home brigade, the "both parties are the same" contingent -- or are they just as stupid as the oh-so-obvious stupid?
To my mind, STUPID is STUPID - and contributing to The Idiot being elected by not voting, or voting third party puts you squarely in the STUPID category.
I'm not seeing any difference between the "I believed Trump would be a great president" folks and the "I voted against Hillary because I wanted to send a message" crowd. BOTH groups enabled an Idiot being to be elected pOTUS. There really is no getting around that fact.
notdarkyet
(2,226 posts)That they were helping trump get elected. They felt their protest vote mattered more Than getting a madman elected for president. It was pretty self serving not reflecting a collective unity with other voters. I thought anyway.
nocalflea
(1,387 posts)If the possibility of a fascist becoming their president does not inspire someone to vote,what will ?
This was the most important vote of my life.
I knew Trump would appeal to the Reagan- democrats demographic the minute he unleashed his MAGA slogan.
I knew my vote mattered.
"If you dont stand for something. .."
Cha
(297,655 posts)against themselves but by Jove they show up.
Those who think they're making a statement by staying home or voting for someone whose lies they believe, but doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell, are voting against themselves, too.
Both of sides have taken the Planet into the abyss and it's up to us to get it out.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)Zero System
(16 posts)not to vote third party. I pleaded, tried to get them to realize what was at stake...and they went right ahead with their self-righteous nonsense anyway. I refuse to discuss anything relative to politics with them now, especially because I can guarantee none of them will take responsibility. I will no longer beat my head against brick walls.
*Edited to add: There was also my son-in-law, who stated he wasn't voting at all, because Hillary "had it in the bag." You can damn sure bet I DO bring it up to him - every time I see him.
sheshe2
(83,898 posts)Nailed them again for their stupidity and naivete.
Kath2
(3,089 posts)Mind if I share this on FB?
Marcuse
(7,506 posts)amuse bouche
(3,657 posts)notdarkyet
(2,226 posts)Of their stupidity. It really makes me mad when they tweet or comment on easily searchable facts.
Cha
(297,655 posts)word "stupid" a lot when referring to trump voters and him.. even though it's intentionally done to brainwash them. He still comes off as the most stupid, Lying, hatemonger on the Planet.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)When we call RWers "stupid," what they hear is that they are being accused of having a low IQ. That is not the case. Rather "stupidity" in the Buddhist sense is when someone holds onto mental delusions that are clearly false, illogical, close-minded, and just bloody wrong and unbased on evidence. So one can have a very high IQ and still be stupid in regard to holding on to certain beliefs.
My example to illustrate this is one time my chickens got outside the hen house. To lure them back in, I scattered some cracked corn on the ground INSIDE the hen house. The smart ones ran around and came back in thru the door. But one really stupid one kept sticking her head thru the 2 inch chicken wire, but obviously couldn't get her body thru to reach the corn. Stupidity in that sense is a close-minded adherence to beliefs that are contradicted by evidence. For example, the belief that trickle-down economics tax breaks creates jobs has no evidence that it is so. Or belief in a creator god that can perform magic tricks that are contrary to the laws of physics. Or belief that climate change and evolution are hoaxes. And on and on and on with so many stupid beliefs unsupported by evidence.
So when we tell RWers that their belief in such and such is stupid, we have to make clear that what we mean is that the belief is not based on evidence - not that they have a low IQ. (Although they may have a low IQ.)
Response to vlyons (Reply #24)
Pacifist Patriot This message was self-deleted by its author.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)Supply-side, Capitalism as an infallible religion, all Democrats are communists, Bush's oil wars are justified, Hillary was the greater evil, etc. etc. etc.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)Ayn Rand disciples. The virtue of selfishness and all that. You can ask them why it is that after every Republican tax cut for rich people (you know, the "job creators" , why is it that the national debt went up, and the economy tanked. But when Obama modestly increased taxes for the wealthy in 2009, the economy began to recover.
Here's another RWer lie. Cutting gov regulations creates jobs. The exact opposite is true. For example, it only takes 1 guy running a back hoe to dump coal ash into a river. But it takes 40 guys in a factory to clean the pollution from an energy plant. And that's not even counting the guys needed to design and build the plant, or the guys needed to manufacture and deliver the building materials and component assemblys for the plant.
Never mind. Best not to try and argue with fools.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)nolabels
(13,133 posts)And if you cannot see their point of view and how they got there how would you ever expect them to see yours
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)And it's not pretty. I won't engage with people whose point of view is racist, misogynist, xenophobic, and/or homophobic. I already understand them all too well. I know some of them personally, and believe me,they're not going to see my point of view no matter how "understanding" I try to be, which is why I no longer try. They DEMAND not only understanding, but complete agreement with their sick, hatefilled beliefs.
These are people whom I know. I never thought I'd call them cultists, but that's what they've become. Ever try to change a cultist's mind?
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)mnhtnbb
(31,404 posts)colorado_ufo
(5,737 posts)dchill
(38,532 posts)SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)Listen to "Card Carrying Badass" on Pod Save America. Recommend.
WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)It's so strange because I started reading before I knew who the author was. About half way through I checked back and saw your name. I totally recognized the style and "wordsmanship."
liquid diamond
(1,917 posts)daft yank
(1 post)I like and agree with most every word of this post, but it must be said that the left/Dems of this country have been a little dim witted as well over the past 25 + years. We became the "party of inclusion" for two reasons 1) because of our belief that all are created equal and entitled to not being discriminated against 2) to get elected (Hispanic, gay, African American voter blocks),but down the road we failed to keep the core voter block, the working/middle class. This movement/party evolved out of the need to put an end to back door politics between corporate America/wealthy Americans having unfair influence (money to get their candidates elected) over government policy. Some how we forgot our core constituency and Fox news picked them up and pickled their brains with false news. Some of it can be blamed on religion because if your a christian first and a democrat second and your faith directs you to believe homosexuality is wrong your gonna find a different party to affiliate with. Now I'm not an outright atheist, in that I do not deny the existence of god, I just have a hard time believing that the bible is the actual word of god, But for many it is. Sp Dems needed to walk a fine line in courting the gay vote. Then bigotry is also a factor, but who wants racists as a voting block anyway. Republicans have been very successful with very little ammunition. Abortion has worked very well for them and when the economy is not so good deregulation has been a good subject to throw in the mix, but this is one that proves the theme of the original post, because deregulation only helps corporate America and the wealthy. Sure it creates jobs but unemployment has not always been the problem the problem has been stagnant wages. I also think that the left have given away too much in an attempt to globalize and thus bring the rest of the world out of poverty(a noble gesture indeed|. They failed too see that technology would slowly devastate the working class here at home, you can only help the rest of the world if you can keep your own head above water while doing so.
sorry for rambling
AJT
(5,240 posts)As far as religion goes, abortion has been made a make or break for evangelicals and catholics. I would like to think we could broaden the tent and allow anti-choice people in, but I don't know how to resolve that with women being as free as men to control their own lives.
Squinch
(51,007 posts)unimportant. For many people like me, it's a deal breaker. If the Democrats did that, I would be gone. Fast.
Oklahoma has just passed a law saying that women need their sexual partners' permission to get an abortion. This is not an issue WE can waffle on. We need to be a strong line in the sand and make it clear that ANY incursions into our self-determination are unacceptable.
And with those evangelicals and catholics, abortion is a make or break until an abortion is needed by their Catholic daughter. I was raised Catholic. I was never in a cohort that availed itself of more abortions than my Catholic college girlfriends. My point is that, while there is a lot of lip service to opposing abortion, in practice it does not go deep. It's hypocrisy.
For those who are anti-choice, I allow them full freedom to be that way. I tell them, "Well then by all means don't have an abortion." That is as far as I am willing to go in letting them have control over my body. If my party went farther than that, they would lose me and I would work against them.
AJT
(5,240 posts)a woman's right to choose means everything to the evangelicals and catholics. It seems all other stances the GOP takes are antithetical to being a good God loving person.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)JI7
(89,264 posts)with wealthy whites than anyone non white.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)AJT
(5,240 posts)very cathartic. Thanks.
annabanana
(52,791 posts)MANative
(4,112 posts)nikibatts
(2,198 posts)to the Rush Limbaugh fan site.
cannabis_flower
(3,765 posts)BlueJac
(7,838 posts)Gothmog
(145,554 posts)Great post
bigtree
(86,005 posts)k&r
NewJeffCT
(56,829 posts)is that we don't really know if Trump is a billionaire - until he can prove otherwise, he's an alleged billionaire.
A few years back, somebody did extensive research into his finances and estimated that Trump was worth in the $150 million to $350 million range. Trump threatened to sue the guy, but I think it was tossed out of court. Not sure of the resolution.
FrankfurtCat
(1,213 posts)If I were an instigator I would ask you if I could post that on Facebook.
BeckyDem
(8,361 posts)How can they look at a con man, just his Trump University alone, was a profile in corruption. He has no interest in helping anyone but himself. When I think of the lies they believe about Clinton and Obama it is mind boggling.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)moda253
(615 posts)I found myself sitting in a restaurant last night listening to some guy drone on and on about how Trump is a new yorker and of course he is going to be offensive but he doesn't mean it and blah blah blah how we have to give him time in office to get his feet under him. He was completely normalizing this crap to a group of teachers I believe. Anyway it seemed as though none of them were really buying it but the guy spewing the bullshit was a bit of a bully speaker so the others seemed to let him drone on and on. I was at the restaurant with my kids or I likely would have jumped into his shit right then and there. But I did shoot the guy a few "are you fucking kidding me?" looks.
Anyway your post got me to thinking that I felt myself slip a little last night. I felt myself excusing this person as just an informed moron. And while that is true these fuckwads need to be reminded that Yes, we do think you are an idiot and here's why. Your post spelled it out perfectly and I would like to give it its due in circulation. If I may.
BSdetect
(8,999 posts)ridiculous claims that seem to resonate with many people.
They also rigged the electoral districts to entrench themselves.
Their talking points are created at an industrial assembly line pace and distributed widely each day.
Its a barrage of BS to distract the media and feed their base emotional stimulation.
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)Alice11111
(5,730 posts)TNLib
(1,819 posts)I live in South East TN around allot of ignorant Trump voters. Some days I want to pull a Sam Kinison and start screaming in their faces.
RadiationTherapy
(5,818 posts)For instance, being able to engage in research has no bearing on one's ability to communicate well, and yet both are often associated with the - essentially meaningless - terms of "smart" and "stupid."
Rhetorically, ad hominem attacks are worse than useless; they not only do nothing for your cause, they galvanize the opposition. Ad homs also alert people that you are not interested in communication and, thus, violence is the next step.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)And, at least for the time being, electoral math requires the persuasion of at least some of these voters (some of whom voted for Obama, twice, in fact. They weren't so stupid then, I guess).
But this is part of the ongoing problem of people seeming to vote against their own best interests. A good deal of that can be laid at the feet of the right-wing echo chamber that is Fox News and right-wing radio. We simply have no counter to that, for the simple reason that progressive ideas which would help the most people are far more nuanced than can be stated in a sound bite.
I think we need to listen to Thomas Frank and George Lakoff. Both have good ideas about reframing issues and explanations for why Democrats lose. Yelling at those loser Trump voters does no good. And our elected officials do not do it because they represent even those who didn't vote for them. We can rant all we want here, but it won't actually solve the problem.
RadiationTherapy
(5,818 posts)The video is 20+ minutes, but the relevant point is only 20 seconds starting at 3:03. He says, essentially, that the insults and arrogance from democrats toward Trump and his voters helped Trump's campaign tremendously, and so on.
leftstreet
(36,112 posts)Mc Mike
(9,115 posts)I've seen this sig-line from a post-er here, don't remember who:
Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'
― Isaac Asimov
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)Nope. They're too stupid to do it.
Iggo
(47,565 posts)nancy1942
(635 posts)Bottom line: they really are stupid.
Paladin
(28,272 posts)mnhtnbb
(31,404 posts)of right wingers and Trump supporters. He claims that it is not stupidity at issue, but
self-destructiveness.
Yes, some of them are ignorant and proud of it. Others don't care about facts, because they agree
with the sentiment--whether it's racist or sexist or just hateful of "other".
I think we're in a "values" war, myself, with Trump supporters.
Is it stupid to be self-destructive? I don't know. There's an awful lot of self-destructive behavior in the world.
RadiationTherapy
(5,818 posts)Calling people stupid is a lazy cop-out that allows one to stop thinking and start hating.
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)logosoco
(3,208 posts)And the repubs/right wing is making that choice. Under normal circumstances, I am pretty much a "whatever" type of person, but now their choices are affecting our country in very adverse ways.
thank you for sharing your rant here! It was very righteous!
JCanete
(5,272 posts)interpret contradictors of your world view. You don't see how your very argument could be and is used in the most nefarious ways? "it was all in the fine print....should have known better." "If you'd just gone out and gotten the right financial advisor and not that shill who was literally working for a credit card company who you thought was working in your best interest, then you wouldn't be so fucked right now...dumbass. The information was out there, you should have just done your homework."
The obfuscation of truth is by design. The vernier of trustworthiness is effective, especially when people in your life who you trust, themselves trust certain institutions and sources. That gives them credibility. Everybody starts from a place of ignorance, and truth does not glow amidst shit with some special halo.
logosoco
(3,208 posts)Your examples are interesting. Perhaps our different life experiences do affect how we look at things.
Using what I think you are using as an example. My mother in law recently lost her home. When my father in law died in 1991, the house was paid for. Over the years, my husband told her and told her what she needed to do. She listened to other family members, so she ended up losing the house. It was a CHOICE she made, even with someone she could trust, standing right in front of her telling her not to do it.
Should I be angry at the bank who let her put up the house as collateral for all the credit card debt she was amassing? Even when her son was telling her NOT to do that? She made a CHOICE even when she was being shown how it would be a bad thing for her.
Just like the tRump supporters who think voting for some rich man is going to help them.
For all people who rely on FOX news as a trusted institution, it would take no effort at all on their part to change the channel or look up another news site. NONE! So, I stand by my statement, ignorance is a choice. If these people are getting information from a TV with cable, they are capable of finding other sources to explore.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)sources?
Your example is entirely different than mine. There are reasons there are laws about how companies market to you, and what they have to say in that fine print, but there are reasons why its in that fine print using language that is confusing, and why companies target young students with credit cards with no initial payments...etc. They get you before you know better.
I have a friend that railed against the people who got themselves into the housing mess before the collapse, who says they were stupid. She literally said, " thought about getting in but my dad said stay away from that because of.." such and such reasons. I was like, "can you not see how having a dad who has that insight saved your ass?" What if she didn't have him? What if the people you have no reason to distrust give you bad advice...
Your example is of a person having to choose between voices that were prominent in her life and choosing poorly. That is not the same thing at all. Again, if you don't know what truth looks like, how do you distinguish it from the lies? Do you really think it calls out to you like some singing sword of virtue?
Beartracks
(12,821 posts)... would they even bother to look for info elsewhere?
When WE hear something, we may seek to corroborate. When THEY hear something, they may just post it on FB as objective fact. So, yeah, they clearly trust their sources and may not employ much critical thinking.
FOX-loving Repubs probably sit around wondering why dumb liberals don't avail themselves of all the truth on FOX...
==============
calimary
(81,466 posts)"In this age of information, ignorance is a choice."
I bet every one of those deplorables has a cell phone (and YES. I think they've very much indeed earned that name - BECAUSE they willfully ignore reality and truth. I bet every one of them has a computer. And a TV. And a radio. Which they deliberately tune to shitshows like Pox Noise and limbaugh-and-clones on hate radio. There ARE other choices. I bet they're much more likely to watch Alex Jones than Rachel Maddow. Nobody is holding a gun to their heads and forcing them to consume that shit, much less forcing them to believe any of it.
They willfully ignore what this country was and is meant to be about. I'm surprised they haven't headed out to where the Statue of Liberty is positioned - with pick axes and chisels and crowbars, to pry off the plaque from her pedestal. The one that reads "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..." Yeah. THAT one.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)I was in the camp a while ago of trying not to demonize them, but frankly after a month of Trump's bullshit if those fucking morons are still supporting him then screw them.
ElementaryPenguin
(7,800 posts)underpants
(182,879 posts)nolabels
(13,133 posts)Ignorant, selfish, misguided, lacking critical thinking, etc would be more informative to an audience without such afflictions and pure baby talk to those who are
on edit: It also easier to describe such attributes if you have also been there yourself
Lochloosa
(16,068 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)But in light of these recent events? I honestly can't see a way out of it.
ismnotwasm
(42,008 posts)Because we need to fight the bigoted stupidity with everything we got
heaven05
(18,124 posts)Doitnow
(1,103 posts)ScubaSteve
(83 posts)Thank you for the best rant ever!!!!
JCanete
(5,272 posts)it is appropriate or effective to claim that the people who see things differently, even if you see that version of reality as steeped in ignorance--as I do--are stupid. That suggests that culture, not just in the microcosms, but delivered and force-fed-- hell, practically engineered from on high--hasn't had an impact on that ignorance.
Yes, your approach is just so crazy, and it will not work. If you have all of the messaging and you can berate and shame people into your version of better behavior, then this kind of peer pressure can work, even if there are better ways to accomplish the same thing, which instead play on people's best qualities ...assume those qualities as natural...and call on them to rise up to, and maintain them. Without total command of the culture, and for that matter, without the mechanisms of power that are going to provide these people and their bigoted, alternate-realities with a safe haven where there's a hell of a lot of echo, not to mention breeding, all you are doing is making it harder to reach them.
You can call them stupid all you want, but you are starting from a place of insult and disdain. You are asking them to either retreat from you and to find friendlier terrain, or to engage on that same plane of discourse, which is, I have to say, pretty worthless. And its an area they are already comfortable in. They take to heart, villainizing and dehumanizing people who disagree with them, or who they've been taught are morally or mentally inferior. You aren't countering that narrative. You aren't showing them how wrong they are. You are giving them more reasons to hate.
How do you see this playing out? Other than pats on the back from people who agree with you, what do you actually see as valuable about this approach? Do you think this fight can be won this way, for real? There is a very concerted financial incentive to make these people "stupid"...to make this base entirely immune to the treacheries of facts. Consider what's been done to public school curriculum in places. Consider what our media has become.
You think those interests don't like it when you engage in battle with their brainwashed pawns? That's just where they want us to channel our vitriol and energy. It keeps us divided. Conquered.
leftstreet
(36,112 posts)nicely stated
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)Trying to shame, insult and guilt people into agreeing with you is how those on the left engage in bullying. That kind of stupid "peer pressure" only works with people who already agree with you and ensures that they won't stray outside of "group think." It's not healthy at all, nor is it productive. Using this tactic will not only NOT win over any voters...it's likely to alienate people and LOSE some voters. There are an awful lot of rural gun loving voters who are pro choice and believe in social and economic justice for all who DEEPLY RESENT having assumptions being made about them. They are NOT going to be shamed into anything. In fact...they will intentionally thumb their nose to people who do that just to make a point.
Bullies on the left are just as bad as bullies on the right...they just use different tactics. Both turn me off equally.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,176 posts)We should allow them to spew insults and abuse at us, but we should remain silent and tell them they are just as smart and ethical as we are. Even when, referring to a new story, they shout Fuck You!! in the face of a pastor and his daughter who dared to attend a Trump rally.
I understand where you are coming from, but sometimes we just have to vent. I agree that its not a fulltime strategy for communication to Trump voters. Its true that the clear unrepentant deplorables will only get angrier if they heard this, but they are already lost. Too STUPID for their own good. But I would respectfully submit that calling out the mental cognition of Trump voters in general may just needle those that are not stupid, but just misinformed and brainwashed by hate media, to "prove" how smart they are by researching the alternative facts they adhere to and may just become more enlightened and even realize their mistake.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)Things have devolved so far that now BOTH Democrats and Republicans are just purposely going out of their way to piss the other side off. Trump's biggest appeal to those on the right is that the left despise him so much. Most of them aren't bigots or racists, know he's full of shit...but they know he's causing the left to be more upset than they ever have before. And the reason why they get so much twisted joy out of that? Resentment and anger. Neither side is innocent of wrong doing in this fiasco. The right bullies via intimidation and chest beating. The left bullies via shaming and attempts to make you feel guilty for not agreeing with them. It's opposite sides of the same coin. People agree on most core things and all want the same basic things...they want to be able to provide for their families, keep them safe, healthy and happy. Even the things people disagree on comes down to them holding different views on how to best meet those same goals.
Maybe rather than focusing on what people disagree on we all start focusing on the shared goals first and then discuss WHY each side things that goal is best reached their way. What I do know for a fact is that the majority of the comments I see on this site regarding this issue will only make things worse and will never resolve or improve anything.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,176 posts)But its BS to keep harbouring this false equivalency that both sides are equally engaged in similar 'wrongdoing', just reversed.
Trump voters (I almost used 'deplorables') blindly adhere to fake news that supports the racist, bigoted narrative that their authoritarian leaders push.
We criticize them for NOT basing their opinion on true facts. That is not engaging in 'wrong doing'.
We criticize them for their unadulterated hypocrisy on many levels, from their abandonment of their Christian family values, accepting of a non-religious vile boor as their leader. Their acceptance of a hollywood celebrity TV star as their leader after decades of ridiculing this segment, of a champagne sipping elite in a limo telling them he understands them. A narcissist who acts like a vindictive spoiled child. Their blind support of a leader elected with the help of an enemy dictator that poisons his enemies.
We criticize them for ignoring experience when Obama, a Senator, was ridiculed for lack of experience.
What are we doing that equals that? Behind the name-calling, like libtards on one side and deplorables on the other, there is an actual difference in the intelligence, both emotional and cognitive, their stupidity in basing their 'rightness' by how many lefties are crying. That they'd rather suffer with bad air and water, no national parks, less civil rights, privatized infrastructure and schools that will cost them more, less food safety for their children, and trillions added to the national debt with increased military spending and tax cuts for Donald and the GOPs corporate class of friends, less social safety net to rely on, etc.....as long as they get to watch a libtard cry. That my friend is as stupid as it gets.
No more Mr. Nice Guy. They should be shamed. Those that can be. Turning the other cheek to these folks only makes them laugh louder.
liquid diamond
(1,917 posts)not trying to win over those asshole trump voters. We don't give a fuck about what they think or how they react. They are the enemy and a lost cause. Fuck reaching out to them.
200+ Recs and counting. Great job Nance.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)the next generations, no matter what their color. Divide and conquer works. Getting people to hate each other works. Venting, I understand. Actually saying, "fuck you guy's you're stupid," or "fuck reaching out to them" is so very much appreciated by your corporate overlords. Do continue.
liquid diamond
(1,917 posts)I don't want racists and misogynists in my party.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)dialogue. What I thought I was saying was that we have to talk to people and see them as human with good intentions totally misaligned, rather than as malignant monsters if we want to be able to erode that racism. Otherwise you are only going to feed it. You are only going to continue to foster a rift.
It is well and good to say "why don't you talk to THEM about THEIR actions. They're the shitty ones." I talk to them about their misconceptions, which is the same level I'm engaging here. It's true, I despair more when even liberals start to bring the hate, because conservatives clearly don't have the philosophical wherewithal or incentive to make things better. If we abdicate a functional approach in favor of visiting on them what they visit on other humans, even if its as mild by comparison as calling them stupid or evil, then I am certain that this is the world we are going to have tomorrow and all the tomorrows into the future.
Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)Tell us how to reach out and engage them in how not to wrap a rope around theirs and all of our necks and strangle us all with it.
If we're not getting it, surely you know how we can do it.
Time is short. So have at it. Let's hear it.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)knew we had a damn good reason for figuring it out. I do have thoughts on this, as do others, but how about we start from a place of diagnosing the problem correctly? Do you see anything sensible about being a poor practitioner in this area, just so that we can be smug about our own brilliance and life choices?
Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)And I rest my case.
Cha
(297,655 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)get you closer to fixing it.
If I don't have all the answers, how does that act as justification for your backwards approach?
Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)Because it would literally be easier to cure cancer than it is to get through to just one of the Trump dimwits.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)there will always be Trump voters. Hey, its a rigid condition right? Barring genocide, it will always be with us.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)How do you react when someone attacks you? Do you just bow down and submit to whatever they want? I bet not. In fact, your first instinct would be to either tune them out and get away or defend yourself and fight back. The one thing you aren't going to do is listen to them or take a single thing they say seriously. That's why they don't listen to all of the Democratic policies that would help them...they don't trust people who call them stupid, insult them or make assumptions about them.
DoctorJoJo
(1,134 posts)I sent it to all my circle of enlightened souls.
pansypoo53219
(20,995 posts)Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,771 posts)And I'm not the least bit religious. This righteous rant just seemed to need an Amen.
Softail1
(56 posts)..in case we forget..we lost the House, then the Senate, and now the Whithouse. We have been decimated at the state level as well.....calling everyone names who doesn't agree with us, is not going to turn that around. A little more maturity is called for I think.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)We continue losing. Now, all branches of government are theirs, and when he gets through with the fed courts, we are stuck with those judges for 30 years or more. Plus, their decisions may take us back 50 years, before Roe v Wade. Net loss is about 80 years, even if we start winning. They did get their troops out to vote, while many of ours played around with 3rd parties or said it didn't matter...pretty stupid.
We are clearly better at policy and governing.
They don't know what to do, except obstruct and tear down. They are great at that. Unfortunately, those same characteristics make them better at winning elections!
We won with Obama because he was so good and he inspired passion, plus everyone had had it with Bush and his economics.
However, Obama improved the economy, kept us from a prolonged depression...yet, they tore him down. They even tore him down for things they obstructed him from doing. Trump was a horrible candidate, but they shredded Hillary and obfuscated any rightful criticism of DT...fake news sex tapes, Comey covering up Russian connections and blasting Hillary, on and on.
rury
(1,021 posts)Stupid is as stupid does!!
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)They really ARE stupid. Even the ones with high IQs and professional jobs. Maybe especially them.
iscooterliberally
(2,863 posts)Trump told us he was a jerk right to our faces. He said it out loud into hot microphones while the cameras were rolling. Now I can't get this dumpster fire off of my TV unless I just turn it off. It's like the yule log, only it's a dumpster fire instead.
50 Shades Of Blue
(10,043 posts)mcar
(42,372 posts)So well said, Nance.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)Cha
(297,655 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8686340
erronis
(15,328 posts)Instead I'll just manually append it to all of my emails (non-work). Thank you Nance!
Takket
(21,625 posts)[link:|
njhoneybadger
(3,910 posts)jrthin
(4,837 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)I told him I thought less of him because he voted for Trump. He just kept apologizing - saying ALL he cared about was something to spark the economy...didn't mean he respected the guy.
Wonder how many are like that - just thought...Billionaire...he can get us booming again. Didn't see all the slug behavior or just shooed it away
lordsummerisle
(4,651 posts)The Wizard
(12,547 posts)It's in their DNA as much as self delusion and unbridled hatred and bigotry. They hate themselves almost as much as they hate normal people. Let's face it. They're just weird.