General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf Bernie really cares about working families, and not just self-promotion,
Last edited Sun Feb 26, 2017, 10:54 PM - Edit history (5)
then he will share his donor list with the DNC, which needs all progressives to join together to strengthen the party in all 50 states. The donor list he agreed -- by written contract -- to share with the DNC.
No if's, ands, or buts.
THE CONTRACT:
The contract is Appendix A to this document. See page 3 of that Appendix, (e).
http://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000151-b72f-d1ae-add5-f76f14db0001
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/01/18/at-dnc-debate-ellison-says-hell-ask-sanders-to-share-his-donor-list/?utm_term=.54de0db74c21
Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) said for the first time that he will ask Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) to share the donor list built during his 2016 presidential campaign, answering a question that had begun to unsettle the race to run the Democratic National Committee.
Were gonna call on everybody to give all the resources they have, Ellison said during a Huffington Post-hosted debate at George Washington University. Were in an emergency situation.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/26/politics/sanders-dnc-election/
Sanders also implied in response to Tapper's questioning that he would not give the DNC his presidential campaign's massive email list, which shattered previous records by raising $218 million online from 2.8 million donors.
The list will be used "to transform the Democratic Party into a party that stands for working families," he said, implying that he wants his new group, Our Revolution, to decide which candidates will get access to that list and reap its benefits.
Response to pnwmom (Original post)
Post removed
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)Response to pnwmom (Original post)
Post removed
Peacetrain
(22,878 posts)I just wish he would either s**t or get off the pot.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)he'll probably take half of the toilet paper with him.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)Which Democratic members of the House and Senate have shared their donor lists with the DNC?
I'd like to know so I never give them another dollar and get my name taken off their current list.
I give to specific people. I have never given to the DNC, DSCC, or the DCCC. I would be furious if I started getting mailings and email and calls from them because one of the many candidates I have given money to shared their list.
Absolutely furious.
More on labeling and the "Not a Democrat" crap.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028715034
Cha
(297,650 posts)party.
He's not helping.. Tom Perez and Keith Ellison and all of us will be moving Forward.. he can keep his list.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... the exact message or point that he's trying to convey remains unclear to me. But what is clear to me is that it's a snub.
In my opinion, and based on my life's experiences, behavior like that is usually done by someone who has an axe-to-grind. It emphasizes division and separateness. It suggests resentfulness and distrust. There's really nothing at all about that type of posturing that would be interpreted as being conciliatory.
Personally speaking, I know that if I had an estranged in-law who treated me with such disrespect and then that in-law started to criticize and offer unsolicited advice on my homemaking skills, I'd certainly question her sincerity or motives. That's just human nature, I guess.
Isn't it odd how some individuals insist on doing things and embracing attitudes that are clearly not in their own best interests or in the interests of things that are, overall, supposedly important to them?
In-laws are funny that way, I guess. My own mother-in-law made it exceedingly difficult not to resent her meddling and intrusive nature, and as a result I've done my best to avoid making the same mistakes she made. So, on the plus side: I took a lesson from her mistakes and was able to be a better person because of it.
With regard to the current political climate and distrust of motives and propriety ... maybe someone in the future will also be able to take a lesson and avoid making the same mistakes and missteps. As it stands now, that's likely the only possibility of finding any positive outcome.
Stronger Together
(Supposedly)
-----
Hello alerter! These are my opinions and my amateur analysis. The analogies are just my way of trying to make sense of things and to put these trying times into everyday terms that are easier to understand and relate to.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)what reformer's do. Change won't come in our political system until we accept that it is necessary.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Unless someone actually WANTS resistance and resentment and to be marginalized and ignored. I can't believe anyone actually likes being treated like a meddling outsider. But, if so... if that's what someone wants, then they're doing it exactly right (in my opinion.)
Stronger Together! Democrats First!
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)The way I see it you can't just put up a fight against it. I voted for Bernie in our CT primary. My husband was a strong HRC supporter. I still slept with the guy...
Obviously, something went off the wall last November. Weren't you shocked when she didn't win? Now look at what we've got!
For gawd's sake, let's all get together on this and fight the REAL enemy: the Republicans. They have control of every branch of government and we are so screwed.
We need everyone in the fight!
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... I think that people will find it difficult to "work together" and "bow down" and "acquiesce" simultaneously. That is just a bridge too far. I won't do it, yet, many demand nothing less. (And regarding the word "allowed" it was more of a concession that lacked enthusiasm. I "allow" myself to be subjected to a mammogram, that doesn't mean I'm enthusiastic about it ... but it's necessary to avoid other worse things.)
lapucelle
(18,319 posts)That's a pretty good argument for Sanders to share the list.
Cha
(297,650 posts)lapucelle
(18,319 posts)Mahalo Cha!
Cha
(297,650 posts)seen you around.. Thank you for your work!
Cha
(297,650 posts)Cha
(297,650 posts)We have new inclusive leaders now, who were elected because they are trusted to know what they're doing.
Tom Perez and Keith Ellison are moving our Party Forward
This is the kind of leader who we'll be going forward with.. so much respect..
Link to tweet
We don't need anyone going on the damn tv all the time with his overkill insulting buzzwords
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)toward a unified front to defeated repubs in the primaries and the general...let's go!
Cha
(297,650 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)pat_k
(9,313 posts)"voter data collected" is not the same as "donor data" or "volunteer data"
Candidates and entities generally keep their donor data to themselves.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8715522
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)...imagine how furious I was when in December 2015 I started getting unsolicited emails from the Sanders campaign and Democracy for America without me ever giving either or anyone other than the DNC my email address.
You can guess the timing when those emails began, if I said here I'd most likely be alerted.
Gothmog
(145,554 posts)leftstreet
(36,112 posts)The first question they might want to ask themselves...how come our email list isn't as impressive as his?
Meh, sounds like he knows the value of it and will share it with specific candidates
DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)he was not entitled to VAN. They should of withheld access until he promised his list. In fact, I recall reading that that was the agreement. They must not have it in writing or BS is just breaking the contract.
Gothmog
(145,554 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)so that they could use it to support candidates in the future. That's the deal everyone makes.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)All campaigns collect voter data from various sources counties, states, other entities (like DNC). They use various models to analyze the source data to identify potential donors and solicit contributions.
I don't know for a fact, but it would be my guess that Bernie 2016 already shared source voter data collected.
An agreement to share source voter data collected is NOT the same as an agreement to share donor information. (Donor information is generally a subset of the larger source pool, but also includes people who donated without solicitation, plus email, and other information the donor provided. It is not customary to share donor data.)
The data licensing agreement referenced as "Bernie's agreement" is found in Exhibit A of the Complaint Bernie 2016 filed against the DNC (and later withdrew).
It clearly talks about "voter data collected." The agreement does not specify "donor data" explicitly. I does explicitly name "volunteer data" and "models" used. In absence of any specification of "donor data," this does not appear to be an agreement to share "donor data."
The fact that "donor v. volunteer v. voter data" are separate things is clear from the agreement with the Iowa State Party (Exbibit A-2 of above referenced complaint.)
database or mass email list, other than volunteer email addresses recorded in VAN, under
this Agreement.
.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts).. and stay out of it.
In or out, Bernie. I have no respect for people who try to play it both ways.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Somewhat standard for career politicians.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Otherwise, I call bullshit.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Most of his stops since his last loss have been for his book tour. He has spent most of the rest of his time yelling at walls which is really tailored to his spending base. These things are well known. It's what career politicians do on their way out.
Have you really missed all of his book tour dates. Donkees has kept somewhat good track of them in the Sanders forum. Though some are incorrectly labeled as campaign events. That goes hand in hand with the career politician aspect.
Have fun calling bullshit on reality. Seems that is your main concern. Sanders own group here at DU will open your eyes to his cash grab. I don't see it as a negative. It's simply the status quo for career politicians.
ornotna
(10,807 posts)And so it goes.
world wide wally
(21,754 posts)And so appropriate
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)And the DNC's usual way of requesting money would only harden opposition.
That list is only beneficial for certain issues and candidates now and just amorphously requesting $$ for the DNC isn't it imo.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)The contract is Appendix A to this document. See page 3 of that Appendix, (e).
http://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000151-b72f-d1ae-add5-f76f14db0001
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Legally he doesnt owe them.
Factually the list isn't workable in the DNC'S hands
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Bernie's supporter's list would recoil from the usual ham handed DNC fundraising appeals. It would only alienate more of that wing.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)pat_k
(9,313 posts)... in the "industry" there is a distinction between "voter data collected," "donor data," and "volunteer data."
The agreement (assuming it was actually executed -- the version in the complaint was not signed by DNC) does not appear to cover "donor data."
More in my response to pnwmom above:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8715522
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Would you like to see a list of "ham handed Sanders fundraising appeals"* that I received even though I never contacted them or gave them my my email address?
I began receiving email requests for money from both DFA (Democracy for America) and the Sanders campaign on Friday, December 18 2015, asking for donations. I continued to get them just about every day until June 2016. Some days I received four or five of them.
*your terminology, not mine.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)otohara
(24,135 posts)Reuters had an article about Sanders and it started out saying something about changing "his party" Whuuuttt?
He says "we" when talking about the party he hates but wants to take over via coup.
Speaking of coups is that a Socialistic tactic too?
I'm confused.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)As long as Skinner's ok with us cross dressers, I'm here.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Discussion boards are silly. You're wasted here you know.
FWIW, I'd wear a cross dresser label with pride. Hate skirts, love pants. I endorse wearing clothes that make one feel comfortable.
seaglass
(8,173 posts)this website is for people who voted for Hillary or supported her if ineligible to vote.
Why don't you ask him in ATA whether it is fine for you to host and post here when you didn't and don't support Hillary? I bet he doesn't know.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Extravagant entertainments.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)horses. Ponies who pulled tourist carriages.....Horses abandoned by people......
They love people....even after all we have done to fuck them up.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)til their end.
That's along with the rotating group of OTTBs I actively seek annually for rehab, re-training, and re-homing. I've even posted some of those stories here on DU.
I'm thrilled to meet others who are committed to this work. After 30 years in the biz, I stand in solidarity with all of those who also work towards alleviating animal suffering.
Kudos to you and your daughter.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Your hands don't wash clean.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)My daughter is autustic too, she loves animals alot.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)Just wondering...
Hekate
(90,793 posts)Reciprocity within the Party for the good of the promotion of Democratic values by electing Democratic candidates.
Something Bernie knows nothing about. Why do you think so many of us dislike his attitude toward the Party he had no part in building? ----> This, btw, is not "bashing Bernie." It's an observation on behavior.
Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)It does not go without saying...
Hekate
(90,793 posts)Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)Hekate
(90,793 posts)Got any?
Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)What posts of mind are to referring to?
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)the DNC's contact list.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028715241
Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)No, there is no such language in that lawsuit language that the link provides...
Got any other link that is valid?
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)Maybe you linked to the incorrect file....
Or, why don't you copy the Appendix for us to read...
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)you're not finding it.
It can't be copied and pasted. I tried that first.
Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)The doc from the link is the lawsuit text dates 12/18/15.
There are 11 pages of the lawsuit text.
Then, Exhibit A - a blank page. Then the Agreement between the DNC and the campaign - 5 pages.
Then another Exhibit A blank page.
Then Exhibit A-1 - blank page.
Then Exhibit A-2 - blank page, then language on the voter file - 6 pages
then schedule B and more lawsuit stuff.
Wonder where the problem is????
And after thinking about it - if Sanders has a contractual obligation to provide 'his email list' then
where is the DNC lawsuit demanding the email list.
Sound like some bull going on...
bravenak
(34,648 posts)But not on her side for sure:[IMG][/IMG]
Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)Case closed.
Ends up being a bunch of bull....
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/01/18/at-dnc-debate-ellison-says-hell-ask-sanders-to-share-his-donor-list/?utm_term=.54de0db74c21
Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) said for the first time that he will ask Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) to share the donor list built during his 2016 presidential campaign, answering a question that had begun to unsettle the race to run the Democratic National Committee.
Were gonna call on everybody to give all the resources they have, Ellison said during a Huffington Post-hosted debate at George Washington University. Were in an emergency situation.
Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)Sorry, your credibility was just lowered in my book...
An apology would be nice...
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)which was before you pretended there was no appendix in the document.
When are you going to apologize for saying there was no Appendix? Which you would have kept saying if Bravenak hadn't been able to post it.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I saw title pages listing the exhibit names but no blank pages. All pages had text on them. Just saying.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Jpr loves sending in troops to bother us. I could be just wrong and they will apologize to you for their mistakes.
Cha
(297,650 posts)Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) said for the first time that he will ask Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) to share the donor list built during his 2016 presidential campaign, answering a question that had begun to unsettle the race to run the Democratic National Committee.
Were gonna call on everybody to give all the resources they have, Ellison said during a Huffington Post-hosted debate at George Washington University. Were in an emergency situation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/01/18/at-dnc-debate-ellison-says-hell-ask-sanders-to-share-his-donor-list/?utm_term=.54de0db74c21
Link to tweet
Thank you, pnwmom!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)Now please notice that this information was available to the DNC only for the "license period" which ended
12/31/2016.
An apology for both of your misunderstandings would be appreciated.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Basically you are saying he is not trustworthy enough to keep his end. No need to ever let him run or make decisions until he keeps his end of the agreement.
Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)Contractually, the DNC had the right to *use* most info collect thru the contract term.
I am sure if the DNC asked for the info during the contract term - he would have given the info to them...
bravenak
(34,648 posts)No more non democrats on our tickets
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)the DNC had the right to the perpetual use of the data.
Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)Any questions?
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)of the data.
When are you going to apologize, since you think it's so important?
Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)perpetual use "... of data collected during the license term excluding email addresses'.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Glad to help in any way I can
Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)Contracts are very precise (conceptually) so the only deceit was not telling me the proper place to look.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Please be honest
Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)How about honesty applying to a few more people here...
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)That is the source of confusion. You gave me information that was incorrect. I posted
exactly what I saw in the doc. That should have triggered you to know that something was
wrong with your post.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)I don't know how you keep missing it.
Case 1:15-cv-02211 Document 1-1 Filed 12/18/15 Page 1 of 16
Exhibit A
Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)EXHIBIT A is not APPENDIX A
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)to the document, but not you.
Oh well.
Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)...but I am supposed to read your mind.
Lawsuits, contracts, etc. are very precise (exceptionally). If you
refer to something in the doc that is not there - then I ask questions. Like
is this the correct doc?
The smart and thoughtful person makes sure about what they are writing...
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)How hard would it have been for you to look at page 3, (e) of Exhibit A -- like Bravenak quickly did -- and realize that was the Appendix A I was talking about?
Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)Care to apologize for this (no harm no foul if you do)?
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)I haven't noticed you apologizing to anyone.
Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)Please let me know what I did requiring an apology
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)when you said this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8715528
Despite what you said, the DNC's right to use the data didn't end with the end of the licensed term.
"Upon termination of the Licensed Term, the Campaign grants to the DNC a perpetual, irrevocable
license to use all Campaign Data including voter contact data, volunteer data, acquired demographic and specialty data, updated phone number and address information and modeling scores, but excluding any email addresses."
Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)You are digging a very deep hole here.
pnwmom, I am not the or your enemy. I simply believe in the truth and the facts.
So, please, can we just stop right here.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)Nevernose
(13,081 posts)But that list is worth MILLIONS, possibly hundreds of millions. Just giving it away? That's a real test of character -- and probably one I, personally, would fail (as I wave bye to North America from the deck of my yacht ).
Personally, I hope he loans the list out, but only to candidates he believes in. It would help Democrats AND be true to his values.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)was critical to his own campaign efforts, in exchange for sharing his data with the DNC.
Their data was also worth millions. Now he needs to honor his word.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)This will be a test of character.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)ananda
(28,876 posts).. they will prove it and Sanders will be a great ally!
samnsara
(17,635 posts)..and certain ppl know what they need to do.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Whether Bernie hands over his list or doesn't, those votes will have to be earned.
In fact, those voters getting emails from the DNC right now might be a very bad thing.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)Just an FYI, if this comes up in the future.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8715522
pangaia
(24,324 posts)I wouldn'the have the patience.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)... a poster fails to acknowledge a post refuting a claim they made, and then keeps on posting the refuted claim.
I don't normally "follow someone around" like this. I usually don't have the patience either. This case seemed to call for it tho.
Sienna86
(2,149 posts)Having his list will not make those that supported middle-class values support other candidates who do not understand nor support those values.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)corporate donations to then withhold a donor list of non-corporate donations. And in Bernie's case, he will be violating his written contract with the DNC, that he signed when the DNC gave him access to its own massive database.
Cha
(297,650 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)He can be one of the leaders to unite for the cause.
choie
(4,111 posts)Hillary Clinton who cares about working families...
Cha
(297,650 posts)choie
(4,111 posts)Cha
(297,650 posts)Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)Cha
(297,650 posts)jalan48
(13,883 posts)from Wall Street corporations and banks? Do you think the millions of Americans who sent him $27 each would want that? It's absurd and would be totally counter productive. I'm sure he will be willing to share with those candidates who share his and his supporters progressive values.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)And because the best way to lessen the DNC's dependence on corporate donors is to share a list that doesn't include them.
The contract is Appendix A to this document. See page 3 of that Appendix, (e).
http://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000151-b72f-d1ae-add5-f76f14db0001
jalan48
(13,883 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/01/18/at-dnc-debate-ellison-says-hell-ask-sanders-to-share-his-donor-list/?utm_term=.54de0db74c21
Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) said for the first time that he will ask Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) to share the donor list built during his 2016 presidential campaign, answering a question that had begun to unsettle the race to run the Democratic National Committee.
Were gonna call on everybody to give all the resources they have, Ellison said during a Huffington Post-hosted debate at George Washington University. Were in an emergency situation.
jalan48
(13,883 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)jalan48
(13,883 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)jalan48
(13,883 posts)boston bean
(36,223 posts)jalan48
(13,883 posts)boston bean
(36,223 posts)jalan48
(13,883 posts)boston bean
(36,223 posts)jalan48
(13,883 posts)My guess is that they would be more likely to support Democrats than Republicans given Bernie's progressive, socialist message.
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)Not a priority for him I guess.
jalan48
(13,883 posts)in their favor. He's not going to play his trump (no pun intended) card and get nothing in return. Why would he want to give the names of millions of people to candidates that take thousands of dollars from big pharma or other wall Street corporations and banks? It would be a total insult to the people who gave him their small donations. Besides, it would be sure to backfire on the Democratic Party-talk about bad optics with the outrage it might produce. We can be smarter about this than just demanding.
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)Seriously I hope that is not true...because it makes me sick to think Bernie would not do all he could to save the innocents from Trump.
jalan48
(13,883 posts)He's always been there for the little guy, I'm sure he will continue to be. Besides, Trump will be gone before 2020.
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)marlakay
(11,491 posts)They honestly did to you if you would do that? They were suppose to be for all democrats and from the beginning picked Hillary.
I stopped donating to them when they took Howard out, it will take a lot to win my respect and many others back.
I like Tom and Eddison but not enough to trust the whole DNC with my email. I personally am on that list so why don't they ask us, the people on it.
nikibatts
(2,198 posts)LisaM
(27,830 posts)In fact, considering that he admitted he was just using the DNC, it seems to me that they bent over backwards to help him.
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)karynnj
(59,504 posts)This is what Kerry did. The reason was that many would not want their info shared. Bernie, like Kerry, could use the list to help the party and specific candidates.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)The standard contract calls for the candidates to share their donor list in exchange for using the DNC's database.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)I do not have a link, but it was a very big issue in 2008 because some claimed he gave it to Obama. He instead Sent an endorsement of Obama with a link to Obama's sign up page. I know this because I got Kerry email.
I am not on a computer at the moment so searching DU to find something from 2008 is something I can't do.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)regardless of what Kerry may or may not have done in the absence of that contract.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)The claim the Bernie 2016 campaign agreed to share donor data is spurious because the contract does not appear to cover donor data at all.
It is my understanding that campaigns don't normally share donor data. They do what Kerry did -- send mail to donors soliciting on behalf of another entity/candidate.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8715522
Sienna86
(2,149 posts)Contract was fulfilled.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)license to use all Campaign Data including voter contact data, volunteer data, acquired demographic and specialty data, updated phone number and address information and modeling scores, but excluding any email addresses."
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)pat_k
(9,313 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/01/18/at-dnc-debate-ellison-says-hell-ask-sanders-to-share-his-donor-list/?utm_term=.54de0db74c21
Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) said for the first time that he will ask Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) to share the donor list built during his 2016 presidential campaign, answering a question that had begun to unsettle the race to run the Democratic National Committee.
Were gonna call on everybody to give all the resources they have, Ellison said during a Huffington Post-hosted debate at George Washington University. Were in an emergency situation.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)I took note of it several weeks ago.
Ellison's expressed intention to ask Sanders for his list has absolutely NOTHING to do with your false assertion (in post after post) that Sanders is in breach of an agreement with the DNC.
I fully expect Ellison to follow through with his expressed intention to ask. I imagine he already has.
At the time I thought it was extremely unlikely that Sanders would agree to hand over the Bernie 2016 donor/email list. I still think it is very doubtful.
I do think Sanders is very likely to leverage his list to call on those who supported him to get involved in efforts to respond to the emergency situation we are in. As a member of the list, I know he has already made use of it for a number of worthwhile calls to action.
So, when will you be withdrawing your erroneous claim that Sanders is in violation with an agreement to share donor data?
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)From your post:
And the contract does say:
license to use all Campaign Data including voter contact data, volunteer data, acquired demographic and specialty data, updated phone number and address information and modeling scores, but excluding any email addresses."
pat_k
(9,313 posts)You quote my speculation that he probably has complied with what the agreement called for.
Here's what the agreement calls on him to share:
-- voter contact data (which is not donor data)
-- updated phone number and address information (which is not donor data)
-- any models created using volunteer data (which is not donor data)
-- volunteer data (which is not donor data)
-- acquired demographic and specialty data (which is not donor data)
-- modeling scores (which is not donor data)
Whether or not he shared the above -- and I am guessing he did -- is irrelevant to your erroneous claim that Sanders is violating the agreement by not handing over donor data. The agreement does not call for him to share donor data. Your assertion is wrong. You should withdraw the assertion that he signed an agreement to share donor data. He didn't sign such an agreement.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)In response to the second quote (apparently added on edit), "Voter contact data" is the data compiled from state and county registration and voting records. It is public data, but the formats are so variable that campaigns pay companies for versions of the information compiled into more usable database form.
NO RELATION to donor data.
Volunteer data IS NOT donor data. Sure, some people may both volunteer and donate, but they are separate databases.
On edit: Data brokers that deal in "voter contact data" make the data more valuable by combining it with other public information they can connect to the voters -- information that can be very helpful when creating analytical models for targeting those most likely to donate.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)pat_k
(9,313 posts)I don't know if it was fulfilled or not, but "donor data" is not "voter data" and is not "volunteer data."
The agreement being referenced appears to be for voter data, volunteer data, and models the Bernie 2016 campaign used to analyze the voter data to identify potential donors.
I don't know if they passed along the voter data they collected from states, counties, and what have you, or their volunteer information, or their analytical models, but as far as I can tell, there never was an agreement to share donor data.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8715522
jalan48
(13,883 posts)GP6971
(31,205 posts)with a hint of cinnamon on the crust.
DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)because of the pages and pages of inquiry from the FEC for unexplained donations. I assume this has not been resolved and apparently the FEC is basically no longer functioning.
Why would he want the Democratic party to see his donor data? He wouldn't.
As far as I know Bernie has not been pushing for an investigation into Russian meddling in our election.
OnDoutside
(19,970 posts)pat_k
(9,313 posts)The "pages and pages" of "problem" entries from month-end reports boiled down to about a half-dozen, easily resolvable, issues.
Are you aware of anything from FEC to Sanders 2016 pending?
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)And apparently there is no law requiring him to do so. So he was able to skirt FEC regulations by getting extensions that lasted for several months.
Doesn't seem very transparent.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/bernie-sanders-not-file-2016-finances-article-1.2756267
pat_k
(9,313 posts)Cha
(297,650 posts)we'll see.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Is it really necessary to demand it, though?
pat_k
(9,313 posts)... a summary of Perez goals for DNC (most productive ones) and ask recipients to show their support for these goals by contributing to the DNC (and providing a link).
No need to "hand over" the list.
Something coming to a Sanders supporter from the Sanders campaign is far more likely to be effective than something coming to a Sanders supporter from the DNC.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)He could also agree to forward all DNC fundraising requests to his list, which would accomplish the same thing as handing the list over.
But I think coming from him, and emphasizing efforts jugded as boldest -- and perhaps the ways "people power" can influence DNC focus -- would be a more effective means of engaging.
Many Sanders supporters feel alienated from the party; that feel their "go big" frame is not heard. Perhaps if the DNC did a better job of "going big," solicitations direct from the would be more effective.
It could of course have a "backfire" effect and prompt people to unsubscribe, and lessen power.
Don't know. All I know is that there's a risk of further alienating those who are dedicated to pushing the party to bolder action if he just hands over donor list.
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)Honestly, I am determined to put this election behind me and move on. I hope others can do the same.
OnDoutside
(19,970 posts)This can be sorted without too many hissy fits.
1) Contact all the donors, and ask them would they allow their details be passed to the DNC.
2) The people who deny access can then continue to be emailed for support by Bernie, for specific requests on behalf of the DNC, but Bernie would hold their details.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)alarimer
(16,245 posts)Give a rest all ready. You hate Bernie Sanders. We get it. He must be so very threatening to the Democratic Party status quo.
One thing, though, if you want Democrats to keep losing, keep following the same, stale playbook.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Bernie has spent his entire life fighting the good fight. Your purity test is insane.
The truth is that the Democratic party has too many corporate interests asserting influence. Bernie is more liberal than the Democratic establishment and I support anything he can do to help move our party to the left. That includes withholding the list which I am on.
Maybe if Hillary supporters cared about working families as much as Bernie's does then her donor list would be as important to the party as Bernie's is.
mfcorey1
(11,001 posts)It is time wasted begging for something you are not going to get. MOVE ON!
George II
(67,782 posts)What's the big deal here?
The only ones who aren't are not registered as Democrats -- and some of those would probably object to their email address being handed over to the DNC. Build the list from the bottom up -- from local D Party organizations -- there's growing membership at that level in response to Nov 8th/45. I'm seeing it here where I am. Just build up from there for crying out loud.
Gothmog
(145,554 posts)Response to pnwmom (Original post)
Post removed
Response to pnwmom (Original post)
Post removed
KPN
(15,650 posts)Good grief! Can't we just move on folks?
The DNC would be better served to build its list out from the ground up. Update based on updates of local D Party email lists. They are growing as we speak. I know my local organization is seeing a lot more involvement and membership since Nov. 8th/45's so-called election.
Some people simply can't let go of the primaries.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)QC
(26,371 posts)Response to QC (Reply #186)
Post removed
QC
(26,371 posts)Cha
(297,650 posts)Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) said for the first time that he will ask Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) to share the donor list built during his 2016 presidential campaign, answering a question that had begun to unsettle the race to run the Democratic National Committee.
Were gonna call on everybody to give all the resources they have, Ellison said during a Huffington Post-hosted debate at George Washington University. Were in an emergency situation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/01/18/at-dnc-debate-ellison-says-hell-ask-sanders-to-share-his-donor-list/?utm_term=.54de0db74c21
Keith and Tom Perez are all about unity..
Link to tweet
sanders is out there lobbing pot shots at our Democratic party.
Gothmog
(145,554 posts)If we are really one party, then we all need to join in
StubbornThings
(259 posts)Cha
(297,650 posts)Were gonna call on everybody to give all the resources they have, Ellison said during a Huffington Post-hosted debate at George Washington University. Were in an emergency situation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/01/18/at-dnc-debate-ellison-says-hell-ask-sanders-to-share-his-donor-list/?utm_term=.54de0db74c21
Link to tweet
dembotoz
(16,832 posts)if jill stein was not such a total wacko the greens would be a place for me to consider
i have been a lifelong dem....rather active in my state and local party and i am just getting fed up....
to make the dem tent smaller is just not a good idea
please stop it
The Sand Reckoner
(194 posts)or put his money where his mouth is and start his own party that looks exactly the way he wants it to. He is not a Democrat. He doesn't get to say "I need a party, so I'm going to tell the Democratic Party how they need to change to accommodate me". If he and his supporters aren't willing to put in the hard work that entails, then they need to STFU.
regnaD kciN
(26,045 posts)lapucelle
(18,319 posts)that Sanders has left. He failed to turn out his faction sufficiently on election day, and that probably weakened any claim he could have made about his influence with getting that bloc of voters to the polls for the Democrats.
My guess is that Sanders is holding on to the list so he doesn't have to ask for and accept DSCC funding for his senate race. He might also be waiting to see whether or not Giordano makes good on his threat to run against him in 2018.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/05/politics/sanders-democratic-fundraisers/
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/06/meet-al-giordano-the-man-who-wants-to-take-bernie-down.html
Cha
(297,650 posts)ornotna
(10,807 posts)killbotfactory
(13,566 posts)That Bernie handing over his donor list would be a yuge mistake.
If the DNC wants to keep chasing big donors and lobbyist money. That's fine. Good luck to them. Leave me the fuck out of it.