Let's Shine Some Light On The Awfulness That Is Bill Maher

[Orrex]

Interesting article from Cracked.com

Here's a taste:

The asshole on the left ((of the picture)), I mean. Bill Maher. He took credit for Yiannopoulos' downfall, stating, "Sunlight is the best disinfectant." And since Yiannopoulos showed up on his show Real Time immediately before imploding, clearly it was Maher's sunlight that purged Yiannopoulos' dank, moldy rind of fame. I'll get into who really brought down Yiannopoulos later. Right now, let's shine some sunlight on Maher. As the Boston Globe pointed out, Maher's gone out of his way to repeatedly defend adult women raping teenage boys. He called a 28-year-old man fucking a 13-year-old girl "a crime," but claimed a 35-year-old woman being with a 14-year-old boy was just "a little offbeat" and that the only crime was that "we didn't get it on videotape."

Cracked.com gets a bit of flak because it's (primarily) a comedy site with a poorly balanced ratio of female:male contributors, and also an occasional over-reliance on boob jokes. However, they frequently offer quite insightful commentary. Robert Evans in particular has had a number of strong pieces worth reading in the current and recent political atmosphere.

YMMV.

[amuse bouche]

1. Nope...I adore Bill

I don't have to agree with him 100% of the time. That's the problem with so many on the left. If someone doesn't pass their purity test..they get kicked to the curb.

We have so few lefties with a microphone. Gee...I wonder why?

[Orrex]

6. Yes, his fans always play the "purity" card

Very few people are luke warm about him, I'll give him that.

Maher's fans will always stick by him. If they haven't jettisoned him by now, then it's hard to imagine what would do it. And they always cry "purity test" in defending him.


He strikes me as similar to the racist uncle that you have to deal with at family functions. Although a lot of what he says is funny, some of it is so god-awful that it overshadows the good moments.


YMMV apparently.

[EffieBlack]

11. Their opposition to the "purity card" is the liberal version of Trump supporters raging against

political correctness.

"Sure," they say. "Trump isn't perfect and I don't agree with a lot of his views. BUT, he's going to dot dot dot."

And many of these same people also attacked Hillary and her supporters, even though they agreed with 90% of her positions, because they disagreed with her about one or two things. But THAT wasn't playing the "purity card." THAT was just them being REAL progressives who didn't compromise their beliefs.

Whatever . . .

[Orrex]

15. No, you're spinning it to favor Maher at the expense of reality.

You clearly didn't read the article, because if you had then you wouldn't be so quick to write off his ugliness. Let's review a few of his bon mots, gleaned from the previously linked article:

Here's one where he argues in favor of statutory rape:

He continued, ‘‘I admit that it’s unorthodox. She’s 35, the boy is 14. He was younger when they started. But she is pregnant again. That was the story this week. This is the second child by this boy. They are keeping the mother in jail because she won’t conform to what society feels should be the perfect American family.’’

Here's another where he's campaigning for it again:

"I think it's a little offbeat, but you know, I believe in the double standard. If a 28-year-old male teacher is screwing a 13-year-old girl, that's a crime. But with Debra Lafave [another teacher who had a sexual relationship with her student] screwing her 14-year-old boy student, the crime is that we didn't get it on videotape. Was he being taken advantage of? I wish I had been taken advantage of like that. What a memory she gave him. I would think he's a champion among his friends. Are you kidding? Even with Michael Jackson-."

Here's one where he's telling transgendered people that they aren't worth the trouble of defending:

I’m not suggesting we throw the transgendered unde the bus, or discounting their struggle. It can’t be easy finding pantyhose when you’re 6’4?. But this is exactly the kind of culture war issue that rousts a certain type of voter out of their trailers on election day…Let’s not die on this hill.

Maher also scoffs at the notion of female-on-male rape:

Maher responded, "How can a woman rape a man?"

You should also read this terrific and thoroughly damning article from Salon: 7 times Bill Maher was a straight-up bigot in which, among other things, he defends misogyny and violence against women:

Back in 2009, Maher responded to the news that Tila Tequila had been assaulted by her then-boyfriend: “New rule: Stop acting surprised someone choked Tila Tequila! The surprise is that someone hasn’t choked this bitch sooner.”

So let's drop the bullshit and stop pretending that some kind of small tent purity test keeps us oversensitive snowflakes from embracing Maher as a Liberal stalwart. He is a demonstrably vile pig, and that fact should be highlighted every single time someone on DU holds him up as a paragon of wit and courage.

[yallerdawg]

29. When you play "devil's advocate" are you going to offend people?

Of course!

What would you call a show that offends people? I don't know, maybe...

[Orrex]

31. That's not devil's advocacy.

By all indications, he holds these views and has held them for decades.

Why are his Liberal fans so quick to dismiss them?


Is there anything that he might say that would be too extreme for his fans to tolerate?

[EffieBlack]

38. You missed my point

I agree with you ...

[Orrex]

43. Oh. Sorry.

The thread is pretty thick with Maher's defenders, so I'm afraid that you got swept up in my responses.

[Judi Lynn]

83. His writers produce some good comedy for him, but he is deeply sick re: women and Muslim humans. n/t

[ebbie15644]

59. I've been a fan of his for years but lately I can't stomach his show

I think the unbalanced way he goes after the Muslim's really gets to me and I have not been able to watch his show as much. I do like to catch New Rules but the rest of the show I don't watch anymore.

[kcr]

8. Gee, I wonder why? Could it be bullshit myths like "Liberals demand purity!"

When some people think assholes like Mahr are liberals, that's a sign of just how bad things are. Being occasionally right and amusing isn't the definition of liberal.

No, it has nothing to do with demanding purity. You get it half right with knowing that we don't have very many liberal voices. But then for some reason it doesn't occur to you that that maybe some of the criticism you do hear is right.

[Goblinmonger]

37. So it's a "No True Scotsman" fallacy?

Assholes can be liberals. Liberals can hold views other liberals don't agree with. Really. They can.

[kcr]

39. No, this isn't a No True Scotsman fallacy

This would be a matter of words actually do have meaning. My point is more like someone claiming a person who doesn't believe in Jesus is still a Christian because they're so gosh darn nice! Quit being such a purity Christian!

[amuse bouche]

85. There is a huge differnce between "that maybe some of the criticism you do hear is right"

and dismissing him as"a raging asshole"

Funny how so many on the left think both sentiments are the same.

[RedWedge]

12. What is it you like about him?

[amuse bouche]

82. I like the fact that republicans hate him and call him a raging asshole

[Dem2]

18. He's an imperfect human being

And that's also fine with me.

I agree - the reason there's so little unapologetic (lasting) liberal programming is that the left inevitably finds flaws and destroys their own. And then those of us who mention it are subject to attack as well. Just a lovely situation.

[amuse bouche]

20. Exactly. Such a shame they can't see it

[Orrex]

30. These aren't minor flaws

They are deep-seated attributes that we would rightly condemn in any Republican asshole, and we'd equally condemn Republicans for embracing that particular asshole.

He's not squeezing the toothpaste in the middle or failing to use a coaster; he's advocating violence against women and espousing trans-phobia, among a number of other deplorable attitudes.

I see no value in overlooking these simply for the sake of dubiously including him in our tent, or whatever.

[Dem2]

41. He's not in a "tent", he's just a crude comedian

I cringed last week when I saw people singing his praises as 1) I have been following him a long time and know he's all over the place and shows no allegiance to anybody (which can be an asset at times) and 2) I knew I would see posts condemning him the very next week (!)

My comment was general in nature, however. Rachel is condemned every other month around here - which is despicable when one thinks logically about it. As far as I m concerned, Maher isn't even a liberal per se, although I do appreciate his brutal honesty but do not expect purity from a crude comedian. I take him at face value, I condemn his shitty stances, but celebrate his ability to get a good hard dig at people who are 100x as bad as he is, such as Rump & his fiendish fascists.

[Crunchy Frog]

72. You mean like Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert?

[putitinD]

90. +1

[Kimchijeon]

36. Right on. No one's perfect

I have to agree with ya there.

[Mr Dixon]

49. agreed

agreed

[Tommy_Carcetti]

2. Bill Maher is a raging asshole who I happen to agree with on some issues.

Which makes him better than raging assholes that I don't agree with most issues, but still worse than non-raging assholes.

[brush]

5. On some things he's a raging asshole (his Islam stance), but he's our asshole. I say keep him.

Last edited Tue Feb 28, 2017, 12:23 AM - Edit history (1)

[Maru Kitteh]

3. Maher is quite frequently very funny, but he is an ass.

Every now and again, he reminds us of that fact.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

4. I've been watching his show since the Comedy Central days. Even after I got rid of cable

after the 2000 fiasco. I found a way to catch it occasionally when he moved to HBO.

I agree with him at times. Vehemently disagree other times. But some times his inner douchebag comes out.

For example. When he piled up on Jorge Ramos, with if all fucking people, Tweety (sic?). I found it pretty damn awful. For someone who shits on our awful media on a weekly basis. He seemed genuinely offended that someone had the audacity to point out how useless and complicit they were on the run up to Iraq. Then to do it with someone who exemplifies that complicity and incompetence like Matthews. Made it even worse.

The way he fawned all over this one man gay minstrel show. Was pretty lame as well. But, he can be very funny. He can be gutsy in the face of conformity as well. But I'm sure no one else could tell you how awesome and courageous he is better than himself.

[Bettie]

7. He's a mixed bag

he's right a lot, he's wrong not quite as often.

He is really funny a lot of times.

I say we keep him, flaws and all.

[Orrex]

9. The linked article highlights some pretty unforgivable flaws IMO

When he's right he's somewhat amusing, but when he's wrong he's spectacularly wrong:

"I'm not suggesting we throw the transgendered under the bus, or discounting their struggle. It can't be easy finding pantyhose when you're 6'4''. But this is exactly the kind of culture war issue that rouses a certain type of voter out of their trailers on election day ... let's not die on this hill."

That comment alone is enough to sour me on him permanently, for example.

[kentuck]

10. Are we talking about "speech" or "public policy"?

If we are talking about free speech, then even assholes have that right.

[ksoze]

13. I like me some "awful" Bill Maher once a week

Don't agree with everything he says, but do like the show, the format and his ability to say what many think at times. He is not a politician nor a government paid employee, so he can offer his exaggerated opinions as he see fit and those who do not like it can change the channel.

[Orrex]

27. Interestingly...

Your post is more or less verbatim the same sentiment I heard in favor of Trump during the campaign.

No kidding we can change the channel. I don't have to listen to Milo Yiannopoulos either, but that doesn't mean that we should embrace either of them as a Liberal spokesperson. I'm also not willing to write off his disgusting views simply because he's not a politician.

His fans invariably defend him using a two-pronged approach:

1. He's an entertainer, so we can't hold him to account for his ugly views

2. He's not afraid to speak truth to power, so we should praise him for his non-ugly views


I'm sorry, but his ugly views are horribly ugly, and unless he is otherwise a superhuman paragon of Liberal virtue, I don't see how they can be overlooked so easily.

We routinely condemn Republicans who embrace horrible characters in the name of expediency. Are we not doing the same thing here?

[ksoze]

45. Just don't watch him - your Maher witch hunt is maddening

There is not a correlation to Trump - don't use the Trump card here. Your clamp down on free speech in entertainment is disturbing.

[Jim Beard]

52. I don't watch him. Like Republicans should have condemned the trash talking Trump,

I do not want to have to defend Bill Marhar's trash. He can talk his crap all he wants but for me, I do not want to defend his crap as a liberal. I just don't see how he can help our party.

[Fast Walker 52]

14. he frustrating at times but far from awful, sometimes he's brilliant

his last show was uniformly good, and even the one with Milo had some really great moments.

This bit was PERFECT:

&t

[Orrex]

16. Did you read the linked article?

This isn't a case of a few pesky foibles tainting an otherwise spotless record of Liberal advocacy. Maher holds (and argues in favor of) some thoroughly disgusting views, and I don't readily see how we can overlook those simply because he fires off an amusing zinger every now and then.

[Fast Walker 52]

40. Yes, I understand... He's obviously not for everyone and I'm not defending evertyhing he's said.

He's an entertainer, bottom line, who often has good political points.

[Bengus81]

17. Sorry...I'd rather have his voice against Trump than not have it.........

I watch him on YT weekly..........

[Orrex]

21. Did you read the linked article?

How can you dismiss his documented awfulness so blithely?

It's not a matter of him liking the Patriots or preferring a different brand of underwear, either. He espouses (and argues in favor of) a number of horrible attitudes that I wouldn't accept from a stranger on a bus, much less from a so-called Liberal media figure.

[Archae]

19. Don't forget his anti-vaxx advocacy.

He's not in the Encyclopedia Of American Loons for nothing, also.

http://americanloons.blogspot.ca/2011/09/247-bill-maher.html

[Orrex]

23. Yes, that's another important point

It seems that he flatters a handful of Liberal notions, so all the rest is overlooked, ignored and/or forgiven.

[Demsrule86]

22. I like Bill and disagree with you.

[Orrex]

24. Did you read the linked article?

How do you justify his abject and demonstrated misogyny, bigotry and his transphobia, not to mention his explicit advocacy of child rape?

[Stallion]

26. Chill Out-You're Irritating

You've asked the same thing 5 times

[Demsrule86]

46. I saw one of the show where he brought this up.

He thinks it is a waste of time to go after this woman...and that it is a love story...it is not. But I will say I knew a couple in Georgia who had gotten together when she was 18 and the boy was 15. His parents sent her to jail...they later married and have three kids, but she is on the sex offender list...which is ridiculous. I just don't dislike Bill even though I disagree...and he helps get an anti-Trump message out.

[logosoco]

25. I like Bill. No, I don't agree with everything he says.

I don't agree with everything my husband says either, and we have been married for 30 years!

The title of this post made me roll my eyes. Reading it, I realized it is doing the thing that I like about Bill, he brings up things in such a way that get folks talking. Kind of like the devils advocate, in a way.

Anything or anyone who gets people thinking and talking is a good thing.


The world would be boring if I agreed with everyone. The whole Milo thing was made clearer to me because Bill had him on the show. I probably would not really see any right wingers if Bill did not have him on the show. He reminds me living in a bubble is not an easy life when there are 7 billion people on the planet and we are all connected. Even the ones that give us the eebie jeebies!

[Kimchijeon]

50. You really made some great points.

I agree with that, it would be so boring if I agreed with everyone all the time. It's good to get exposed to others point of view.

[randome]

32. Maher depends more on vulgarities instead of nuance. I've never liked the Beavis & Butthead crowd.

It's far easier to say "no holds barred" than it is to be accurate and concise. His brand of 'journalism' is the lazy kind, imo.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[Demsrule86]

47. I am a South Park fan my self...not the poop show though...there are limits!

Thus I have a weakness for vulgarity I suppose. I blame my husband who nurtured this.

[randome]

51. Something can always be said about pushing the envelope with outrageousness.

But some shows take it too far and think MORE and MORE outrageousness is always better.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[Demsrule86]

53. I don't think maher's show does that.

I like the guy...and consider he ended the career of the GOP I mean a real witch running for Senator...was it in Maryland?

[bravenak]

57. Christine 'I'm not a witch!' O'Donnell?

https://m.

[Demsrule86]

81. thanks...too lazy to look it up...

[Exultant Democracy]

33. 1. I read the article so don't ask. 2. His horribleness

Is within the mainstream of horribleness. He wasnt a liberal a few decades ago and his opinions and position for the most part haven't evolved. However the right wing drift in the US had aligned him with the left on most issues.

His transphobia and Islamophobia is terrible. His stance on 14 year old boys banging the "hot" teacher is also terrible and is exactly what you see on almost every late night show especially if you look at the generation of hosts he came up with.

The one defining feature of his show however is his panels. It's probably the only place on TV where anything even resembling debate goes on anymore. We got to watch Ben Affleck call Bill a racist for his views on Islam and he didn't cut off the mic or cut to commercial. At the same time when people come on and just lie they get their asses handed to them right there without filter.
Moreover you get to hear the audience boo Bill when he says the stuff we agree is terrible.

Most of us can't stomach even a few minutes of Rush or any of the hard right, and his listeners are more or less lost to us anyway. Bill however speaks for a class of somewhat clueless libertarians who kinda want to be on the left, and he can packed his ideas in a manner which is somewhat tolerable, so hearing what he has to say has some value.

[HAB911]

34. Bill Maher is not our enemy.....nt

[amuse bouche]

42. Pathetic...ain't it ?

[SidDithers]

35. Thanks for posting...

And I agree about Cracked. David Wong and Katy Stoll are also both quite good.



Sid

[qdouble]

44. Bill Maher is fine....

just because he says something out of line on rare occassions is not going to make everyone on the left believe that he's some horrible boob. Sorry.

[EffieBlack]

48. Replace "Maher" with "Trump"

And then tell me we need to be more tolerant of his views ...

[bravenak]

54. He is messed up. Always has been.

And I also did not like religilous, btw. So stupid, and I'm an atheist. Waste of time.
My stepdad was raped by a woman at twelve. He never ever got over it until the day he died. It would enrage him to hear that it was no crime and just 'offbeat'. He was twelve and not even interested in grown women but she raped him all the same. When he told on her, nobody cared and they told him to stfu and stop telling 'family business'. Sure, it was his aunt, but damn, even his own mama called him a 'sissy boy' for crying about being raped. Sad. He was super protective of me and helped me cope with my own abuses I had suffered.
Plenty of young boys get raped. It is because of men and women like Bill that they are too scared to say anything for fear of being made fun of, not being taken seriously, mocked... Bill is a shit. Always has been.

[Laffy Kat]

68. Thanks you for sharing this.

People need to read it. Maher just blew his last chance with me. I'd already been pretty turned off by his misogyny then starting watching him again. He blew it with Yiannopoulos.

[bravenak]

86. Yep. He is prettydisgusting but I try my best to like him. Its hard

[Lil Missy]

55. I like Bill Maher. You know where he stands, agree or not. He doesn't sugar coat the facts. n/t

[njhoneybadger]

56. Obviously you were never a 14 year old male

[msanthrope]

60. What the heck does that mean? nt

[njhoneybadger]

62. It means some 14 year old boys are thinking about how great it would be to bang their teacher.

That' just the way it is, whether you like it or not

[msanthrope]

64. So, this is your defense to rape? nt

[njhoneybadger]

66. No, Its how I was when I was 14

[msanthrope]

71. Right....14. Maher is not 14. And surely you've matured to the point of

understanding that what you describe is rape.

[njhoneybadger]

73. Is it your understanding that all rape in the legal sense is equally

Traumatic to the victim

[msanthrope]

74. "all rape in the legal sense?" Can you expand on what you mean by that?

Also, can you expand on the legal theory that takes the victim's trauma into account as a defense?

[njhoneybadger]

75. You remind of Victor Hugo's character Javert

"But rather tragic in his misguided and self-destructive pursuit of justice. [Javert] was a compound," Hugo writes, "of two sentiments, simple and good in themselves, but he made them almost evil by his exaggeration of them: " He is "absolute," a "fanatic." This fanatical absolutism allows him to divine a "straight path through all that is most tortuous in the world.

[msanthrope]

80. We aren't talking about the theft of bread, but of rape. And look,

I get that you've painted yourself into a corner, but there really isn't any legal or moral defense to a teacher having sex with a 14 year old. Really.

[njhoneybadger]

87. No, I never morally or legally defended the teacher's actions.

You've painted yourself as a miserable,angry, legalistic holier-than-thou misanthrope

[msanthrope]

91. No--what I've done is a pretty good cross-examination of a pervasive attitude about rape.

Welcome to DU.

[njhoneybadger]

92. Could I ask what that pervasive attitude about rape is?

[msanthrope]

93. If reading your own posts doesn't answer that for you, I can't help you. nt

[MrPurple]

58. He allows a variety of viewpoints to be discussed in an entertaining way

It's not easy to do, to have fresh topical discussions every week, allow people to express varying viewpoints, mix in humor. No one else has been remotely this successful in this format - he's done it since 1993.

If you consider yourself a Democrat, you likely agree with at least 70% of what he says. On other issues, like Islam, he allows discussions where people disagree with him passionately. A noted one was with Ben Affleck - easy to find on Youtube.

One thing he criticizes about some on the left is their being overly political correct and demonizing those who aren't in lock step with them on every nuance. The anti-Maher posts in here seem to me to be examples of how he's right (not that you need to share his sense of humor or necessarily like his show).

[njhoneybadger]

61. How awful it is to allow people to express varying viewpoints

[Cosmocat]

63. His good far outweighs his bad

YES, he is "wrong" on some things, and he digs in his heels and goes overboard on some of it.

But, he is right far more often than not.

FURTHER, sorry, this political debate in this country is not a tea and crumpets session.

There are 1,000s of asshat conservatives scumbags screaming at the top of their lungs, and like him or not, Maher is one of the very few we have on our side who does not bring a plastic spork to knife fight.

We lost our best voice - Jon Stewart.

Like it or not, we need Maher now more than ever.

[hunter]

65. Bill Maher types are pretty common in my circle of family, friends, and acquaintances...

... but most of them are funnier, with less asshole.

Blunt, smirking, "I'm being naughty, look at me" comedy is not appealing to me. Colbert does it too sometimes but in a hilariously self-deprecating way. Colbert is well aware of the smart-mouthed Catholic teenager inside himself and gleefully plays him for laughs. I haven't seen that the few times I've watched Maher. Too often he's still the teenager. (Not that teenagers can't make me laugh, especially the smart-mouthed teens, which is pretty much all of them in our family.)

But worse than that, when Maher is mean he's just mean. Yes, YMMV, since all I really know of Maher is a few YouTube clips, and maybe some PBS back when I watched television. Still, when I look at Maher I can't help but see someone who's trying too hard to be a no-bullshit comedian and political commentator like George Carlin or Penn Jillette. Is that what HBO is asking of him? I've never had an HBO subscription.

[NurseJackie]

67. Thank you for sharing this. It was a very interesting article.

If you aren't familiar with the show, Brian the Dog is frequently portrayed as the stereotypical latte-sipping convenience liberal. He speaks passionately about causes that are popular to support and about things that impact him directly (like pot), but he changes his stances on a dime and is, essentially, a hypocrite. He's even transphobic. So, basically, he's Bill Maher.

[Crunchy Frog]

69. I only got about half way through this week's show.

Once that Muslim woman who voted Dump got going, and especially with the attacks on Keith Ellison, because, Muslim.

I get really sickened by the particular bigotry that Maher directs at only Muslims.

I also get really sick of his acting like liberals are a monolith, which he also does with Muslims.

While I do enjoy some of his material, I would have to say that he's my least favorite of current late night comedians.

I'm pretty sure that Ellison is stronger on both women's equality, and freedom of expression, than the pussy grabber who has labeled the news media as the "enemy of the people".

[coco22]

70. What I like about him is..

He makes people talk about things they like to pretend aren't happening,until the issue is out of control.

[FreepFryer]

76. He sucks. He was WAY too flirty w/Milo and his transphobia is a dealbreaker (nt)

[dembotoz]

77. i would have thought we had bigger fish to fry

[ecstatic]

78. He's an a-hole, but he's also a comedian,

so an apples to apples comparison of what Bill said to what Milo said is a little unfair.

That being said, I hope that Bill Maher will get on message & assist the resistance without the offensive distractions he veers into from time to time (eg. Muslims, religion, etc).

[demmiblue]

79. Some people here are ok with bigotry, misogyny and the down-playing of rape...

as long as they perceive him as being on 'our side'.

Simply grotesque, but not surprising.

[msanthrope]

84. Obviously, you've never read a Polanski thread here. Revolting. nt

[Rustyeye77]

88. Maher is great.eom

[miyazaki]

89. no thanks. n/t