General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLet's Shine Some Light On The Awfulness That Is Bill Maher
Interesting article from Cracked.com
Here's a taste:
Cracked.com gets a bit of flak because it's (primarily) a comedy site with a poorly balanced ratio of female:male contributors, and also an occasional over-reliance on boob jokes. However, they frequently offer quite insightful commentary. Robert Evans in particular has had a number of strong pieces worth reading in the current and recent political atmosphere.
YMMV.
amuse bouche
(3,665 posts)I don't have to agree with him 100% of the time. That's the problem with so many on the left. If someone doesn't pass their purity test..they get kicked to the curb.
We have so few lefties with a microphone. Gee...I wonder why?
Orrex
(64,221 posts)Very few people are luke warm about him, I'll give him that.
Maher's fans will always stick by him. If they haven't jettisoned him by now, then it's hard to imagine what would do it. And they always cry "purity test" in defending him.
He strikes me as similar to the racist uncle that you have to deal with at family functions. Although a lot of what he says is funny, some of it is so god-awful that it overshadows the good moments.
YMMV apparently.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)political correctness.
"Sure," they say. "Trump isn't perfect and I don't agree with a lot of his views. BUT, he's going to dot dot dot."
And many of these same people also attacked Hillary and her supporters, even though they agreed with 90% of her positions, because they disagreed with her about one or two things. But THAT wasn't playing the "purity card." THAT was just them being REAL progressives who didn't compromise their beliefs.
Whatever . . .
Orrex
(64,221 posts)You clearly didn't read the article, because if you had then you wouldn't be so quick to write off his ugliness. Let's review a few of his bon mots, gleaned from the previously linked article:
Here's one where he argues in favor of statutory rape:
Here's another where he's campaigning for it again:
Here's one where he's telling transgendered people that they aren't worth the trouble of defending:
Maher also scoffs at the notion of female-on-male rape:
You should also read this terrific and thoroughly damning article from Salon: 7 times Bill Maher was a straight-up bigot in which, among other things, he defends misogyny and violence against women:
So let's drop the bullshit and stop pretending that some kind of small tent purity test keeps us oversensitive snowflakes from embracing Maher as a Liberal stalwart. He is a demonstrably vile pig, and that fact should be highlighted every single time someone on DU holds him up as a paragon of wit and courage.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)Of course!
What would you call a show that offends people? I don't know, maybe...
Orrex
(64,221 posts)By all indications, he holds these views and has held them for decades.
Why are his Liberal fans so quick to dismiss them?
Is there anything that he might say that would be too extreme for his fans to tolerate?
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)I agree with you ...
Orrex
(64,221 posts)The thread is pretty thick with Maher's defenders, so I'm afraid that you got swept up in my responses.
Judi Lynn
(162,493 posts)ebbie15644
(1,235 posts)I think the unbalanced way he goes after the Muslim's really gets to me and I have not been able to watch his show as much. I do like to catch New Rules but the rest of the show I don't watch anymore.
kcr
(15,522 posts)When some people think assholes like Mahr are liberals, that's a sign of just how bad things are. Being occasionally right and amusing isn't the definition of liberal.
No, it has nothing to do with demanding purity. You get it half right with knowing that we don't have very many liberal voices. But then for some reason it doesn't occur to you that that maybe some of the criticism you do hear is right.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)Assholes can be liberals. Liberals can hold views other liberals don't agree with. Really. They can.
kcr
(15,522 posts)This would be a matter of words actually do have meaning. My point is more like someone claiming a person who doesn't believe in Jesus is still a Christian because they're so gosh darn nice! Quit being such a purity Christian!
amuse bouche
(3,665 posts)and dismissing him as"a raging asshole"
Funny how so many on the left think both sentiments are the same.
RedWedge
(618 posts)amuse bouche
(3,665 posts)Dem2
(8,178 posts)And that's also fine with me.
I agree - the reason there's so little unapologetic (lasting) liberal programming is that the left inevitably finds flaws and destroys their own. And then those of us who mention it are subject to attack as well. Just a lovely situation.
amuse bouche
(3,665 posts)Orrex
(64,221 posts)They are deep-seated attributes that we would rightly condemn in any Republican asshole, and we'd equally condemn Republicans for embracing that particular asshole.
He's not squeezing the toothpaste in the middle or failing to use a coaster; he's advocating violence against women and espousing trans-phobia, among a number of other deplorable attitudes.
I see no value in overlooking these simply for the sake of dubiously including him in our tent, or whatever.
Dem2
(8,178 posts)I cringed last week when I saw people singing his praises as 1) I have been following him a long time and know he's all over the place and shows no allegiance to anybody (which can be an asset at times) and 2) I knew I would see posts condemning him the very next week (!)
My comment was general in nature, however. Rachel is condemned every other month around here - which is despicable when one thinks logically about it. As far as I m concerned, Maher isn't even a liberal per se, although I do appreciate his brutal honesty but do not expect purity from a crude comedian. I take him at face value, I condemn his shitty stances, but celebrate his ability to get a good hard dig at people who are 100x as bad as he is, such as Rump & his fiendish fascists.
Crunchy Frog
(27,074 posts)Kimchijeon
(1,606 posts)I have to agree with ya there.
Mr Dixon
(1,185 posts)agreed
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,599 posts)Which makes him better than raging assholes that I don't agree with most issues, but still worse than non-raging assholes.
brush
(57,945 posts)Last edited Tue Feb 28, 2017, 12:23 AM - Edit history (1)
Maru Kitteh
(29,195 posts)Every now and again, he reminds us of that fact.
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,748 posts)after the 2000 fiasco. I found a way to catch it occasionally when he moved to HBO.
I agree with him at times. Vehemently disagree other times. But some times his inner douchebag comes out.
For example. When he piled up on Jorge Ramos, with if all fucking people, Tweety (sic?). I found it pretty damn awful. For someone who shits on our awful media on a weekly basis. He seemed genuinely offended that someone had the audacity to point out how useless and complicit they were on the run up to Iraq. Then to do it with someone who exemplifies that complicity and incompetence like Matthews. Made it even worse.
The way he fawned all over this one man gay minstrel show. Was pretty lame as well. But, he can be very funny. He can be gutsy in the face of conformity as well. But I'm sure no one else could tell you how awesome and courageous he is better than himself.
Bettie
(17,288 posts)he's right a lot, he's wrong not quite as often.
He is really funny a lot of times.
I say we keep him, flaws and all.
Orrex
(64,221 posts)When he's right he's somewhat amusing, but when he's wrong he's spectacularly wrong:
kentuck
(112,895 posts)If we are talking about free speech, then even assholes have that right.
ksoze
(2,068 posts)Don't agree with everything he says, but do like the show, the format and his ability to say what many think at times. He is not a politician nor a government paid employee, so he can offer his exaggerated opinions as he see fit and those who do not like it can change the channel.
Orrex
(64,221 posts)Your post is more or less verbatim the same sentiment I heard in favor of Trump during the campaign.
No kidding we can change the channel. I don't have to listen to Milo Yiannopoulos either, but that doesn't mean that we should embrace either of them as a Liberal spokesperson. I'm also not willing to write off his disgusting views simply because he's not a politician.
His fans invariably defend him using a two-pronged approach:
1. He's an entertainer, so we can't hold him to account for his ugly views
2. He's not afraid to speak truth to power, so we should praise him for his non-ugly views
I'm sorry, but his ugly views are horribly ugly, and unless he is otherwise a superhuman paragon of Liberal virtue, I don't see how they can be overlooked so easily.
We routinely condemn Republicans who embrace horrible characters in the name of expediency. Are we not doing the same thing here?
ksoze
(2,068 posts)There is not a correlation to Trump - don't use the Trump card here. Your clamp down on free speech in entertainment is disturbing.
Jim Beard
(2,535 posts)I do not want to have to defend Bill Marhar's trash. He can talk his crap all he wants but for me, I do not want to defend his crap as a liberal. I just don't see how he can help our party.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)his last show was uniformly good, and even the one with Milo had some really great moments.
This bit was PERFECT:
Orrex
(64,221 posts)This isn't a case of a few pesky foibles tainting an otherwise spotless record of Liberal advocacy. Maher holds (and argues in favor of) some thoroughly disgusting views, and I don't readily see how we can overlook those simply because he fires off an amusing zinger every now and then.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)He's an entertainer, bottom line, who often has good political points.
Bengus81
(7,427 posts)I watch him on YT weekly..........
Orrex
(64,221 posts)How can you dismiss his documented awfulness so blithely?
It's not a matter of him liking the Patriots or preferring a different brand of underwear, either. He espouses (and argues in favor of) a number of horrible attitudes that I wouldn't accept from a stranger on a bus, much less from a so-called Liberal media figure.
Archae
(46,851 posts)He's not in the Encyclopedia Of American Loons for nothing, also.
http://americanloons.blogspot.ca/2011/09/247-bill-maher.html
Orrex
(64,221 posts)It seems that he flatters a handful of Liberal notions, so all the rest is overlooked, ignored and/or forgiven.
Demsrule86
(71,033 posts)Orrex
(64,221 posts)How do you justify his abject and demonstrated misogyny, bigotry and his transphobia, not to mention his explicit advocacy of child rape?
Stallion
(6,613 posts)You've asked the same thing 5 times
Response to Stallion (Reply #26)
Post removed
Demsrule86
(71,033 posts)He thinks it is a waste of time to go after this woman...and that it is a love story...it is not. But I will say I knew a couple in Georgia who had gotten together when she was 18 and the boy was 15. His parents sent her to jail...they later married and have three kids, but she is on the sex offender list...which is ridiculous. I just don't dislike Bill even though I disagree...and he helps get an anti-Trump message out.
logosoco
(3,209 posts)I don't agree with everything my husband says either, and we have been married for 30 years!
The title of this post made me roll my eyes. Reading it, I realized it is doing the thing that I like about Bill, he brings up things in such a way that get folks talking. Kind of like the devils advocate, in a way.
Anything or anyone who gets people thinking and talking is a good thing.
The world would be boring if I agreed with everyone. The whole Milo thing was made clearer to me because Bill had him on the show. I probably would not really see any right wingers if Bill did not have him on the show. He reminds me living in a bubble is not an easy life when there are 7 billion people on the planet and we are all connected. Even the ones that give us the eebie jeebies!
Kimchijeon
(1,606 posts)I agree with that, it would be so boring if I agreed with everyone all the time. It's good to get exposed to others point of view.
randome
(34,845 posts)It's far easier to say "no holds barred" than it is to be accurate and concise. His brand of 'journalism' is the lazy kind, imo.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]
Demsrule86
(71,033 posts)Thus I have a weakness for vulgarity I suppose. I blame my husband who nurtured this.
randome
(34,845 posts)But some shows take it too far and think MORE and MORE outrageousness is always better.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]
Demsrule86
(71,033 posts)I like the guy...and consider he ended the career of the GOP I mean a real witch running for Senator...was it in Maryland?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Demsrule86
(71,033 posts)Exultant Democracy
(6,595 posts)Is within the mainstream of horribleness. He wasnt a liberal a few decades ago and his opinions and position for the most part haven't evolved. However the right wing drift in the US had aligned him with the left on most issues.
His transphobia and Islamophobia is terrible. His stance on 14 year old boys banging the "hot" teacher is also terrible and is exactly what you see on almost every late night show especially if you look at the generation of hosts he came up with.
The one defining feature of his show however is his panels. It's probably the only place on TV where anything even resembling debate goes on anymore. We got to watch Ben Affleck call Bill a racist for his views on Islam and he didn't cut off the mic or cut to commercial. At the same time when people come on and just lie they get their asses handed to them right there without filter.
Moreover you get to hear the audience boo Bill when he says the stuff we agree is terrible.
Most of us can't stomach even a few minutes of Rush or any of the hard right, and his listeners are more or less lost to us anyway. Bill however speaks for a class of somewhat clueless libertarians who kinda want to be on the left, and he can packed his ideas in a manner which is somewhat tolerable, so hearing what he has to say has some value.
HAB911
(9,365 posts)amuse bouche
(3,665 posts)SidDithers
(44,273 posts)And I agree about Cracked. David Wong and Katy Stoll are also both quite good.
Sid
qdouble
(891 posts)just because he says something out of line on rare occassions is not going to make everyone on the left believe that he's some horrible boob. Sorry.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)And then tell me we need to be more tolerant of his views ...
bravenak
(34,648 posts)And I also did not like religilous, btw. So stupid, and I'm an atheist. Waste of time.
My stepdad was raped by a woman at twelve. He never ever got over it until the day he died. It would enrage him to hear that it was no crime and just 'offbeat'. He was twelve and not even interested in grown women but she raped him all the same. When he told on her, nobody cared and they told him to stfu and stop telling 'family business'. Sure, it was his aunt, but damn, even his own mama called him a 'sissy boy' for crying about being raped. Sad. He was super protective of me and helped me cope with my own abuses I had suffered.
Plenty of young boys get raped. It is because of men and women like Bill that they are too scared to say anything for fear of being made fun of, not being taken seriously, mocked... Bill is a shit. Always has been.
Laffy Kat
(16,529 posts)People need to read it. Maher just blew his last chance with me. I'd already been pretty turned off by his misogyny then starting watching him again. He blew it with Yiannopoulos.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)njhoneybadger
(3,911 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)njhoneybadger
(3,911 posts)That' just the way it is, whether you like it or not
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)njhoneybadger
(3,911 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)understanding that what you describe is rape.
njhoneybadger
(3,911 posts)Traumatic to the victim
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Also, can you expand on the legal theory that takes the victim's trauma into account as a defense?
njhoneybadger
(3,911 posts)"But rather tragic in his misguided and self-destructive pursuit of justice. [Javert] was a compound," Hugo writes, "of two sentiments, simple and good in themselves, but he made them almost evil by his exaggeration of them: " He is "absolute," a "fanatic." This fanatical absolutism allows him to divine a "straight path through all that is most tortuous in the world.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)I get that you've painted yourself into a corner, but there really isn't any legal or moral defense to a teacher having sex with a 14 year old. Really.
njhoneybadger
(3,911 posts)You've painted yourself as a miserable,angry, legalistic holier-than-thou misanthrope
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Welcome to DU.
njhoneybadger
(3,911 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)MrPurple
(985 posts)It's not easy to do, to have fresh topical discussions every week, allow people to express varying viewpoints, mix in humor. No one else has been remotely this successful in this format - he's done it since 1993.
If you consider yourself a Democrat, you likely agree with at least 70% of what he says. On other issues, like Islam, he allows discussions where people disagree with him passionately. A noted one was with Ben Affleck - easy to find on Youtube.
One thing he criticizes about some on the left is their being overly political correct and demonizing those who aren't in lock step with them on every nuance. The anti-Maher posts in here seem to me to be examples of how he's right (not that you need to share his sense of humor or necessarily like his show).
njhoneybadger
(3,911 posts)Cosmocat
(15,027 posts)YES, he is "wrong" on some things, and he digs in his heels and goes overboard on some of it.
But, he is right far more often than not.
FURTHER, sorry, this political debate in this country is not a tea and crumpets session.
There are 1,000s of asshat conservatives scumbags screaming at the top of their lungs, and like him or not, Maher is one of the very few we have on our side who does not bring a plastic spork to knife fight.
We lost our best voice - Jon Stewart.
Like it or not, we need Maher now more than ever.
hunter
(39,007 posts)... but most of them are funnier, with less asshole.
Blunt, smirking, "I'm being naughty, look at me" comedy is not appealing to me. Colbert does it too sometimes but in a hilariously self-deprecating way. Colbert is well aware of the smart-mouthed Catholic teenager inside himself and gleefully plays him for laughs. I haven't seen that the few times I've watched Maher. Too often he's still the teenager. (Not that teenagers can't make me laugh, especially the smart-mouthed teens, which is pretty much all of them in our family.)
But worse than that, when Maher is mean he's just mean. Yes, YMMV, since all I really know of Maher is a few YouTube clips, and maybe some PBS back when I watched television. Still, when I look at Maher I can't help but see someone who's trying too hard to be a no-bullshit comedian and political commentator like George Carlin or Penn Jillette. Is that what HBO is asking of him? I've never had an HBO subscription.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Crunchy Frog
(27,074 posts)Once that Muslim woman who voted Dump got going, and especially with the attacks on Keith Ellison, because, Muslim.
I get really sickened by the particular bigotry that Maher directs at only Muslims.
I also get really sick of his acting like liberals are a monolith, which he also does with Muslims.
While I do enjoy some of his material, I would have to say that he's my least favorite of current late night comedians.
I'm pretty sure that Ellison is stronger on both women's equality, and freedom of expression, than the pussy grabber who has labeled the news media as the "enemy of the people".
coco22
(1,258 posts)He makes people talk about things they like to pretend aren't happening,until the issue is out of control.
FreepFryer
(7,086 posts)dembotoz
(16,922 posts)ecstatic
(34,480 posts)so an apples to apples comparison of what Bill said to what Milo said is a little unfair.
That being said, I hope that Bill Maher will get on message & assist the resistance without the offensive distractions he veers into from time to time (eg. Muslims, religion, etc).
demmiblue
(37,866 posts)as long as they perceive him as being on 'our side'.
Simply grotesque, but not surprising.