I live in rural upstate NY and my neighbor just hung a Confederate flag on their trailer front porch

[adigal]

I have been here 14 years and have never seen a Confederate flag hung anywhere. So don't tell me Trump hasn't unleashed the dogs of hatred and racism even here in NY.

I want to put one of those signs you can poke into the ground in front of their house (on the public street) saying, "KKK Lives Here"

[RedWedge]

1. Is this a new neighbor, or someone who has also been there for 14 years?

[adigal]

33. This neighbor has been here for as long as we have owned the house

So at least 14 years, probably longer

[RedWedge]

44. So is this move a surprise?

[adigal]

46. I don't know them...it's a rural area, but this is a 2 lane state "highway,"

Everyone drives by at 55 mph. We have a lot of acres, and they are about 1/2 mile down the y are older, I think, didnt have kids my kids' age.

[beachbum bob]

2. A number of years ago a similar situation across the street

And after a couple I informed the guy that flag is look upon just like a swatzi and best to keep out of sight as it could endanger his wife and kids safety....The wife took care of it

[Ilsa]

3. Put out your American flag. Maybe that will shame him. nt

[guillaumeb]

4. Anyone flying the Confederate flag is beyond shame.

[McCamy Taylor]

27. Agree.

Better yet, give your neighbor a Russian flag

[adigal]

34. LOL! Great idea...where do I get a Russian flag? Nt

[Marthe48]

48. Amazon

n/t

[pangaia]

77. I think you should hang a Russian flag and an American flag. See what happens. 😎

[Hoyt]

29. It should. My experience is that white wingers who fly that flag, have no shame.

[Ilsa]

59. True, but I think it is important to show him up to

anyone driving by. Be the resistance!

[TheBlackAdder]

5. What is their affinity towards Southern Paternalism and Sedition, or is this a Yankee Confed poser?

[adigal]

35. I honestly don't know nt

[Skittles]

6. sad

I would be beside myself if I saw that garbage near my home

[narnian60]

104. Yes.

[shenmue]

7. Put up a Union flag!

[EarthFirst]

9. Or a United Nations flag... n/t

[crazycatlady]

47. or a Pride flag

[shenmue]

53. Yes

[LisaM]

101. That would be the best response!

Can you even buy those? Now I want one.

[LisaM]

102. Links to where you can buy Union battle flags

https://www.gettysburgflag.com/flags-banners/civil-war-union-flags

[OldHippieChick]

8. I am living in the South and wondering what will happen when I put a

bumper sticker on my car that says I "stand w/ Planned Parenthood". Are these acts of courage or red flags before the bull?

[tblue37]

17. Cops will pull you over and find ways to issue you tickets, and bullies will follow you and

threaten you. When you park your car, it will be vandalized.

[OldHippieChick]

20. I guess I'm about to find out how brave I am.

Advantages of being an old woman.

[adigal]

36. Be careful, please. Don't take unnecessary chances alone nt

[cwydro]

81. What nonsense.

I live in the south.

I have a planned parenthood sticker on my car, a Hill yeah! sticker, and a rainbow flag.

Never got a ticket, no vandalism.

I work in a red county, and some folks have made silly jokes but that's it.

[beam me up scottie]

23. A Darwin fish can get your car keyed down here.

And it may affect your chances in a job interview.

[cwydro]

82. Nope.

Not my experience.

[beam me up scottie]

97. So your experience is the only valid one?

What an odd comment, what do you mean by "nope"?

Have you ever had your Darwin fish or atheist bumper sticker stolen or destroyed? Because that happens. Are you denying that anti-atheist sentiment is very pervasive and that it leads to job discrimination? For decades atheists were the most hated 'religious' minority in this country and we were only recently knocked into second place by Muslims. This anti-atheist bigotry is still extremely common in the bible belt and most of us keep a low profile because of it. I've overheard employers badmouthing atheists because "this is a Christian nation", do you really think we want to out ourselves in that environment?

I'm thrilled that your experiences have been positive but that doesn't mean that others have been as fortunate.

[cwydro]

98. Nope.

My Darwin fish is fine.

My friends are all Dems and also live in the south.

Some have bumper stickers and some do not.

I only read about this sticker vandalism here on DU. Never happened to me or anyone I know. I'm not young, and I've frequently backed unpopular candidates.

I do love the stories spun here though. Too fricking funny.

But don't let this get in the way of a good south-bashing thread. Funny how the OP posted about something in the north, and the worm turned quickly into a south-bashing. DU is sure consistent on generalizations at least.

[beam me up scottie]

100. So you only read about it on DU? How odd.

When I did a search I found many different accounts of this happening and the only people who claim this is a false flag are...well you can see for yourself if you google it.

Here's just one example:

Anti-Evolution Vandals?
Pro-evolution bumper stickers and emblems are being removed from the cars of biologists in Florida.
By Edyta Zielinska | August 1, 2011

Presumed anti-evolution vandals are repeatedly defacing the cars of biologists from the University of Florida, according to the University's student newspaper, The Independent Florida Alligator.

Over the course of several months, a number of biology professors who had "Darwin fish" emblems and pro-evolution stickers on their cars noticed that the symbols had been pulled or scraped off. In some cases, religious prayers were left on the cars. Most recently, Brian McNab, a professor emeritus of ecology at the University, noticed that his tires had been punctured with two-inch nails. Zoologist Betty Smocovitis told the Florida Alligator that she would simply continue to replace the Darwin fish on her car.

The biologists suspect the culprits to have strong anti-evolution sentiments, and have reported the crimes with the University Police Department. (Hat tip to The Chronicle of Higher Education.)

https://www.google.com/amp/www.the-scientist.com/%3farticles.amp/articleNo/30962/title/Anti-evolution-Vandals-/

It's not exactly a hate crime but pretending these incidents don't happen at all is absurd.

If someone were to claim they were targeted for having a Black Lives Matter bumper sticker or a Jewish or Muslim symbol on their vehicle I would take them at face value because in my experience bigoted assholes do target minorities.

I don't understand this knee jerk denial that bigotry occurs in the south whenever the Dixie Swastika is discussed. It's bizarre.

I mean it's not like those thugs who threatened a black family at a child's birthday party are the exceptions to the rule, there are many more just like them who proudly display their racism and terrorize minorites on a daily basis. Does south bashing happen here? Of course - and I agree it's offensive and intolerant - but simply discussing pervasive racism in the south isn't south bashing.

It's not easy to be liberal in the south or in any red state. If you live in a city then you probably exist on an island of blue in a sea of red - but those of us in towns and rural areas are far more isolated. If we want to display our liberal cred we have to consider the possibility that it may be met with hostility. I don't blame people for being cautious in a world where a chance encounter with a motorist can lead to a violent road rage incident, where a child's birthday party can be interrupted by gun toting racists and where lgbt people still have to worry that they'll be beaten to death.

[peacebuzzard]

67. You will probably get quite a few honks and gestures

Take care

[TransitJohn]

10. I fucking hate Confederate flags.

I'm from Wyoming, and seeing them there pisses me off. We weren't even a Territory during the South's treasonous war to prolong slavery. Buncha ignorant fucksticks. I really, really dislike seeing them outside of what was once the Confederacy. When you do, you know for a fact that the deplorable flying it is doing it because they hate people of color.

One white middle-aged cis-hetero opinion.

[brer cat]

13. I hate seeming them

inside what was once the Confederacy. They don't belong anywhere. I live in GA and travel around the South a good bit, and I don't see a lot of them anywhere. They mostly come out after someone makes a big deal about it which makes the knuckle draggers want to strut their stuff.

[leftyladyfrommo]

18. I think I have seen one big one flying from a truck

here in KC. There may have been little stickers.

People here just ignore weirdo stuff like that.

[brer cat]

24. Yep. I see that occasionally.

I think there is an inverse correlation between the size of the flag and the size of their penis, but I've never wanted to know bad enough to check it out.

[leftyladyfrommo]

25. These were kids. The flag was huge.

No one paid any attention to them.

[Warpy]

28. I find them useful as asshole indicators, especially outside the south

Anyone flies one of them or has a sticker on his vehicle, I know to avoid him completely along with his family. I want nothing to do with such people. At best, they're biker posers. At worst, well...

[OldHippieChick]

32. I'm originally from Wyoming as well. No place is safe from

idiots, ignorance and bigotry.

[adigal]

38. I agree, it's a way to be in the KKK mentality without the white hood nt

[beam me up scottie]

103. One local has a truck with two huge rebel flags that he drives around the city all weekend.

It's like his hobby. Of course he gets lots of honks and cheers from people who know what the flag really represents. It's not about heritage - it's about white supremacism.

[mcar]

11. Neighbor here in red FL did that

Within a few hours, the rest of the neighborhood had American flags hanging. He took it down.

[NewRedDawn]

12. I too live in rural upstate NY.

Very Red part. I see that vile flag all over as well as on license plates. These fuckers here are the bottom of the barrel of the deplorable's! I had one ancestor who fought & died in Gettysburg & my Great Great Grandfather & his 2 sons all severely wounded at Antietam. It makes my blood boil! I hate the Fucking Confederacy & wished Ole Jeff Davis, Bobbie Lee, & the rest of the leaders politically & Militarily of the Confederacy were hung by a rope for what they were; dirty dog traitors & Enemies of the Union!

[callous taoboy]

61. Damn. Great history there, New Red. Hats off.

[Yupster]

73. Jeff Davis was indicted for treason

And he spent the rest of his life demanding his right to a speedy trial.

He never got it.

Too much risk. What if he was found innocent? Then what? The US army leaves and apologizes?

Better to just leave him indicted for the rest of his life without giving him the opportunity of a trial.

[NewRedDawn]

85. No trial.

This fucker should have been hanging from a noose, along with Bobbie Lee & the rest of the traitors that cost a lot of death & destruction. The confederacy should have been totally crushed!

I believe if it was then, the present day Fascists would not be in existence today.

[Yupster]

92. He had a high powered team of northern lawyers defending him

Their defense was that the Constitution was silent on the issue of secession.

Therefore the issue would go to the Tenth Amendment and would be a power of the states. This was at a time when the Tenth Amendment was still taken seriously.

Obviously if secession were legal, then he couldn't be a traitor to a foreign country.

It was a Constitutional issue that was certainly an unknown.

Better to hang him without trial. It's a good way to avoid complicated legal issues. Save a lot on lawyer's bills.

[A HERETIC I AM]

14. Take him a white flag and say....

"Here. The one you have up is better represented by this one."

Either that or school him on how incredibly wrong it is to fly the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia which in NO way whatsoever was adopted as an official flag of the confederacy.

[adigal]

39. Love it!!!!! Better than my KKK sign idea! Nt

[JHB]

15. Look up some Civil War memorabilia sites, see if there are affordable...

...Union regimental flags, and put them up alongside a US flag. Best still, if you can trace a family connection to any.

Great-great granddad was a Union artilleryman. Any time someone brings up "heritage" I point out that according to my heritage, it's an enemy flag.

[beam me up scottie]

16. I refer to it as the Dixie Swastika.

Ask them why they're flying the flag of traitors who declared war on the United States.

Oh and it's also the flag of the losing side. That would be like hanging the Union Jack on the fourth of July.


You could also follow the example set by Mike Pence's neighbours and get everyone to hang rainbow flags.

[TrollBuster9090]

19. Easy rebuttal to that.

Just hang an AMERICAN FLAG on YOUR front porch.

Lest we forget, the Union Army flew the AMERICAN flag, and it was the Confederate Army who chose to fly A DIFFERENT one.

[TrollBuster9090]

21. Oh, and before we go all apeshit on the South...REMEMBER BUFORD.

Remember that the slavery issue divided both the North and the South. There were plenty of Northerners who didn't want to give people of African descent freedom or equality, and there were plenty of Southerners who did. Plenty of Southerners who fought on the side of the United States, instead of the Confederacy. The civil war is often characterized as North v. South. When in fact, it was a war between those who remained loyal to the United States, and those who chose to break away over the issue of slavery; regardless of where they were born.

Classic example, John Buford, born in Kentucky.

By the same token, most of the Dixie states contain from 30-49% Democratic voters, who don't buy into these stupid, bullshit culture wars. (Al Gore, Bill Clinton etc.) Let's not vilify them, along with those who do. That's exactly what Republicans are relying on.

[Yupster]

74. General Pemberton, the general who surrendered Vicksburg to Grant

was from Pennsylvania.

[raccoon]

83. Thank you. nt

[NewRedDawn]

90. Wasn't kentucky

neutral during the Civil war or still part of the union?

[Yupster]

93. Kentucky had representation in both

the US and Confederate congresses.

Each country claimed it.

[TheBlackAdder]

22. If not one of the three below, it's not a CSA Flag. The jerk's probably flying the Army of Tennessee

.


First National Flag of the CSA (The real Stars and Bars flag)



Second National Flag of the CSA (a rectangular flag that is mostly white)



Third National Flag of the CSA (The Blood-Stained Banner with a Red Tip)



Battle Flag of the Army of Virginia



Army Flag of Tennessee (The fake Stars and Bars flag)



I wonder if the guy even knows the difference.


.

[Hoyt]

30. Today, all those flags are a symbol of hatred.

[TheBlackAdder]

31. Yep. That and sedition. I just like to point out that those who fly it often don't know the nuances.

[Eliot Rosewater]

26. Racism is now the official position of our government.

[vlyons]

37. Don't go looking for trouble

Be a good and kind neighbor. That confederate flag has nothing to do with you, unless you give it the power to make you angry. Just because they are assholes doesn't give you license to also be an asshole. Mind your own business and stay out of their yard.

[adigal]

40. I NEVER said I would go into their yard

We are rural. We are all on a two lane state road. But the road has a dirt shoulder into which i can out a sign.
Sorry. I believe when people are racist assholes and you stay silent, you are complicit.

[Yupster]

75. The Confederate Constitution didn't allow the President

to run for reelection.

Just an interesting historical note.

[drray23]

41. They cant even pull the bullshit excuse

"Its not racism, its heritage...". In my neck of the woods (southeast virginia) they go for that. May be a bit hard to argue in upstate ny...

[underthematrix]

42. This is why Russia targeted white America with their

psyops disinformation campaign

[bdamomma]

66. Russia knew tRump supporters were

prime for the picking. Russia heard those Americans who projected hate and division for their country and their cheerleader was a con man. Russia heard that discourse and infiltrated our election.

[mrs_p]

43. Not sure about where you live

But where we were in CNY, most of us lived on land originally given away to Union soldiers after the civil war. Oh, the irony.

[adigal]

45. Can you imagine?? These people may have ancestors who were

Union soldiers. It boggles.

[EarthFirst]

49. We live just outside of a suburb of Rochester, a mostly rural/agriculture village community...

It's tough in W/CNY for a Democrat...

This nutjob is one of our neighbors:

[indie9197]

62. Somebody should let him know he shouldn't display the U.S. flag touching the ground.n/t

[yardwork]

50. I live in the south and they say terrible things about New Yorkers down here.

Your poor neighbor doesn't belong anywhere I guess. Poor thing.

[pstokely]

71. but isn't rural upstate NY the "real" New York

not NYC

[pstokely]

72. what part of the South?

is it an area full of Yankee transplants like Atlanta?

[raccoon]

84. So is upstate SC. nt

[muntrv]

51. 3 words: William Tecumseh Sherman.

[MFM008]

80. I know

A picture of him is like holy water to demons to some southerners. ..

Not all. I was born in VA.
Love W.T.S.

[KingCharlemagne]

94. WTS' record after the Civil War is far more checkered. Ask any Native

American and you are likely to get an earful about Sherman's brutally genocidal conduct.

[Marengo]

106. I've made the very same point in the past, only to be completely ignored. Seems this is a blind...

Spot for many folks.

[KingCharlemagne]

108. I used to be an unabashed admirer. One of my Commie friends educated me. - nt

[VOX]

109. 3 words: Native American genocide.

"Uncle Billy" was a practitioner of total warfare. His methods were clearly effective in dividing and defeating the rebellious South. But shortly thereafter, he applied his techniques of "total destruction" to Native Americans, with even more devastating results.
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.history.com/news/9-things-you-may-not-know-about-william-tecumseh-sherman
After the Civil War, Sherman was given command of the Military Division of the Mississippi and tasked with pacifying the Plains Indians during the building of the transcontinental railroad. Sherman took to the job with characteristic vigor, orchestrating the relocation of the tribes and warning their chiefs, “you cannot stop the locomotive any more than you can stop the sun or the moon, and you must submit.” To help break the natives’ spirit, Sherman took a page from his Civil War playbook and set his sights on destroying one of their primary resources: the buffalo. Beginning in the late 1860s, he organized the killing of some 5 million bison in an effort to drive the creatures to the brink of extinction. Sherman continued his harsh policies after becoming commanding general of the army in 1869, and by the 1870s, he had helped force most of the Plains peoples onto reservations.

[Freedomofspeech]

52. They are everywhere here in Southwest PA.

[luvMIdog]

54. One good thing is now people know what lives there

[smirkymonkey]

55. I'm from Upstate NY - I have lived in large cities since I have graduated from college but

I have never known my hometown neighbors to be outwardly racist. However most of them were fairly well educated. Do you mind if I ask where in upstate you live? Just wondering if we are from the same neck of the woods.

[NewRedDawn]

63. I live in a small town

in Herkimer County 30 miles from utica. It is Trumpland USA. here.

[smirkymonkey]

65. I grew up about 30 miles north of Utica!

Oneida County. Very conservative, but there were still huge pockets of liberals - a lot of Unitarian "hippies". It's such a mixed bag up there. What town/city are you from?

[NewRedDawn]

89. Salisbury

Near Dolgeville- Little Falls

[adigal]

68. I'm from north of Glens Falls, NY nt

[smirkymonkey]

70. That's a beautiful area!

I am from the Adirondack foothills. Also a very lovely part of the state. Strangely enough, my town produced a lot of liberal children of conservative parents (my friends). I'm not sure how we all turned out that way, but I'm glad we did.

[adigal]

95. You are lucky!!! Not many liberals here, except transplants. nt

[mountain grammy]

56. This flag is displayed for one reason and one reason only

racism, and they know it, and we know it. I don't know what I would do if one of my neighbors displayed that flag, but I'm sure I would say something.

[Equinox Moon]

57. You could put up a sign in your yard about unity

or stronger together...

[H2O Man]

58. I, too, live in

rural upstate New York. And I have noticed an increase in these disgusting flags.

[nikibatts]

60. They are just trying to hold on to the wet dream as they see 45 and his Russian band nearing the end

[Renew Deal]

69. Put up a sign that says "one of my neighbors is a racist"

[Yupster]

76. Why would you want to start a fight with your neighbor

Can't people just mind their own business anymore?

[pangaia]

78. I live in a town of about 15 000...

30 minutes from a medium size city.

There is a red neck who sometimes drives around in a ratty old pick up and flying the Confederate battle flag.

Yeesh....

[Docreed2003]

79. Growing up in the south and currently living here...here's my perspective, FWIW.

In the south, there remains a strong population of, for lack of a better term, rednecks who still wave the confederate flag, like it is a sign of dominance and privilege. It only speaks to their stupidity. Likewise, I lived in New England for several years and would not infrequently see the rebel flag flying either outside houses or on cars. My initial response was "Oh, do tell of the great RI confederate battalion that fought so bravely against Northern aggression". After shaking that off, I was immediately shaken to my core that such racism could exist outside of the "confederacy".

People in the south have deluded themselves to think that the "confederate flag" represents heritage not hate. Most have no clue that the flag they are waving was never the official flag of the Confederacy.

What most think of when they see a confederate flag is actually the battle flag of the "Army of Tennessee". After the war, that flag was adopted by the early members of the KKK. It has represented the KKK since that time.


So, at least in my mind, anyone who flies that flag is espousing racism and hatred. I know what it means because I'm from the South, but others cling to it because it represents their views.

You might be able to say "Heritage not hate" in the south, even though that's total BS, but in a northern state, there's no excuse outside of racism.

[beam me up scottie]

105. Well said. It isn't 'southern bashing' to state the obvious.

Racism is obviously not just an issue in the south but when it comes to overt displays like the Dixie Swastika it's absurd to deny that it's common down here. Historical revisionism about the Civil War is common as well, I constantly run across Neo-Confederates who insist that it had nothing to do with slavery - they actually call it the War of Northern Aggression. And don't get me started on Nathan Forrest apologists who insist he was a hero.

Confederate monuments are everywhere and black kids have to attend schools named after confederate war heroes. I don't advocate destroying the monuments and renaming all of the buildings but it is galling.

Remember the 'Tennessee Heritage Protection Act'?

Want to remove Nathan Bedford Forrest's bust from the Capitol? Good luck with that.

[HAB911]

86. Anyone so shameless would have no problem terrorizing you

be careful

[OnionPatch]

87. I saw them just outside of Gettysburg last summer.

Hanging on porches, in the windows of pickup trucks. I have an ancestor buried at the National Cemetery there and several others who fought there for the Union, and these asswipes are flying the confederate flag??

My question is, are these people originally from the south? Do they have a family heritage from the south? If not, wtf is that flag supposed to mean other than that they are blatant racists?

Deplorables indeed. So sad how so many people have been brainwashed into this mentality.

[NewRedDawn]

91. I go to Gettysburg yearly

and have seen that too. As I have said , I lost a Great Great Uncle there the first day. He was in the 97th NY. And most of my family now are Trumpkin deplorables. All republicans, Never changed party affiliation from the days of Lincoln, but hold views of the Old confederacy.

[Mc Mike]

88. Blue state repugs often forget which side their state was on

in the Civil War.

[MicaelS]

96. A lot of this flag flying is a way of saying

"Fuck you" to "liberals", because they know it pisses off people off. It is an adolescent rebelliousness, no matter the age of the person involved.

[Hoyt]

107. Been in the souyh all my life, nowadays only racists fly that flag. The yellow Gadsden

"Don't Tread on Me" flag is also popular among hateful white wingers. Today, the confederate flag is the American Swastika and heritage of hatred.

[Vinca]

99. I live in a very blue area, but yesterday I pulled into a parking lot and saw a pickup

truck with a Confederate flag stuck in the back and stuff written all over the truck. It almost made me laugh because I know just about everyone seeing that truck in this area thinks one thing: moron.