ON EDIT: I'm still furious that we were not allowed to post to DU on election night.

[HughBeaumont]

Last edited Thu Apr 13, 2017, 04:05 PM - Edit history (1)

That still doesn't sit well with me at all.

We all needed to be with kindred spirits during an ushering in of one of modern American History's darkest days and likely it's most stunningly bad lapse of judgment.

Instead, we were confined to social media outlets loaded with either the MAGA Klan Cheerleading Squad or the "very reasonable persons" telling us that "this too shall pass" and "we've weathered greater storms than this" . Or worse yet, the odd smirking asswipes verbosely blaming "TEH IDENTITY POLITIKS LEFTITS" for Trump's victory.

It just seemed so . . . . coordinated. Why US?

[Dr Hobbitstein]

1. Your freedom of speech was infringed on Election Night?

Last edited Thu Apr 13, 2017, 11:20 AM - Edit history (1)

What governmental agency prevented you from speaking?

[forgotmylogin]

2. I think the poster is talking about the Election day DU hack

that prevented people from communicating on here.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

5. I know.

But the OP's freedom of speech was not infringed upon. Some hacker happened to take down a website he frequented.

[HughBeaumont]

3. HERE, HEEEEEERE!!! AT DU!!!

A hacker shut this site down.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

4. So, your free speech wasn't squashed then.

A website was hacked. You still had a voice.

[catbyte]

28. How do you know it wasn't Russian hackers or one of Bannon's vermin?

It sure was devastating enough and sophisticated enough to close down the site for weeks. If that is indeed the case, then our freedom of speech was quashed by the illegitimate cabal currently occupying the WH. Something dark, dangerous, and sinister happened on November 8, 2016, and it was much more than a mere election. It was a well-coordinated coup d'etat that so far the Republicans have managed to conceal. And I used to laugh at conspiracy theories, but I'm not laughing at this.

[HughBeaumont]

41. +100

"I don't believe in conspiracy theories. Just the ones that are true." - Michael Moore.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

43. Russian hackers can't infringe on your first ammendment rights.

Why are we even having this conversation?

[catbyte]

46. If they were in collusion with the 45* campaign, that's exactly what happened.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

47. He was not President when the hack happened.

DU is NOT that important.

[Ken Burch]

50. Why is it so important to you to derail this thread?

n/t.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

56. Why is it so important to have an irrational thread? Nt

[Lone Star]

70. If you we not here, you will not understand.

[GP6971]

71. And you were here after just joining?

Unless you lurked before you joined.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

72. I was here. nt

[Drahthaardogs]

48. I said this a few weeks ago. All the Russian shit with the hack

Now seems eerie

[delisen]

31. How about freedom of speech tampered with or a person denied free speech

An entity interfered with a person's ability to communicate with others. Life is bigger than the the law and bigger than governments. Life is bigger than the Constitution of the US.

We can talk about people being being denied the ability to communicate online by a hacker without it being a constitutional law issue.

[Lurks Often]

6. So what government entity shut down DU?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Link: http://constitution.laws.com/1st-amendment

[Blues Heron]

8. It doesn't have to be a government

Hugh's free speech was shut down that night, manifestly. This hack should not be minimized or dismissed lightly.

[Ms. Toad]

9. Actually, it does. Infringement of free speach means infringement by a government actor.

That doesn't make it any less devastating - but what happened wasn't an infringement of free speech.

[Blues Heron]

10. It was, you're wrong.

[Ms. Toad]

11. So what government actor infringed our speech?

[Blues Heron]

12. It doesn't have to be a government.

His speech was infringed upon. You're wrong.

[Ms. Toad]

14. And where did you get your law degree?

(The subjects I teach, at an actual law school, include constitutional law.)

[Blues Heron]

16. what are you babbling about?

nobody cares about your alleged law degree.

[Ms. Toad]

18. Then, by all means, carry on making statements that demonstrate that you

retained about as much from your civics class as Trump did.

[jackssonjack]

26. Blues is correct.

From the American Bar:

State statutes limiting speech-related terminations are similarly incomplete. At the protective end of the spectrum, five states (California, Colorado, Montana, New York, and North Dakota) prohibit employers from punishing employees for legal off-duty activities that do not conflict with the employer’s business-related interests. Nine additional states more narrowly protect employees who engage in political activities and five states similarly protect individuals who sign initiative, referendum, recall, or candidate petitions.

These limited protections for off-duty political speech are not avail­able to approximately half of the U.S. population that works in the remain­ing 31 states. Accordingly, the majority of American workers have legal pro­tection for their speech only when it relates to a narrow category of topics protected by federal, state, or local law. A brief survey of these laws reveals that they frequently require the employee to thread a needle: they must speak about the right topic, in the right way, and to the right person.

http://www.americanbar.org/publications/insights_on_law_andsociety/15/winter-2015/chill-around-the-water-cooler.html

Shutting down this site by an individual isn't limiting free speech. Its simply illegal to hack per Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA) 18 U.S. Code §1030

[Blues Heron]

17. for all the airheads out there:

The intent of the hack was to shut down our free speech. Period.

[Ms. Toad]

19. The intent is completely irrelevant,

unless it was carried out by a government actor. Infringement of free speech is a specific legal wrong that can only be committed by the government.

[Blues Heron]

20. could you be any more pedantic?

talk about missing the point by a mile!

[Ms. Toad]

21. We laugh at Trump when he makes stupid statements

that demonstrate he wasn't paying attention in civics class - things like threatening to change the laws so newspapers can't say bad things against him, not realizing that would violate the First Amendment of the constitution. This is just the flip side of the same issue. If we're going to call Trump ignorant, we better make sure our house isn't made of glass.

[HughBeaumont]

33. OK, I correct my title. Problem solved.

Who stops Trump from being ignorant and blowing up the Earth?

Bit more of a mountain to climb, I think.

[cwydro]

30. You sound silly at this point.

Just stop.

We were all annoyed by the hack, but no one took away our freedom of speech.

[Blues Heron]

35. You weren't just annoyed

you were prevented from expressing yourself here.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

57. You don't have a right to be on DU.

It is a privilege.

You do have a right to express yourself, but no one has to provide you a platform.

[Blues Heron]

67. You're just wrong on this.

Give it up.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

68. Quit trying to oppress my free speech.

[delisen]

37. Poster did not claim constitutional violation. The Law does not have exclusive rights to words

anyway. We are free to use words such as infringed in their dictionary definitions.

He thought his freedom of speech was undermined.

The Law does not have exclusive rights to words.

[AngryAmish]

65. Free speech is both a right and a principle.

It is morally wrong to murder someone as well as a crime. If I murder someone and get away with it does not mean I am morally faultless.

[Lurks Often]

22. The 1st Amendment says the GOVERNMENT can not interfere with free speech

So unless the government shut down DU, the 1st Amendment does not apply

[Blues Heron]

23. You guys need to give it up. You know what happened

Stop trying to minimize,gaslight,FUD or whatever your doing. Our freedom of speech was infringed and that's a fact.

[Lurks Often]

24. Perhaps you should re-read the 1st Amendment

[Blues Heron]

36. nobody's talking about the first amendment

except you and your fellow fudders

[delisen]

40. Infringed is a free word and can be used in free speech without

the speaker claiming a constitutional violation.

There is life and speech beyond the courthouse.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

58. No, it was not.

Fact is not a fluid word, you can't brandy it around all willy-nllly.

[Blues Heron]

60. Actually, it was. I was here. You can rewrite history all you want, Dr. FUD

Nice try.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

63. I was here, too.

I posted on many liberal groups on Facebook that night. Had my free speech and everything. No government agencies silencing me at all.

Wanna know why? Because no one's free speech was infringed that night.

Utilizing your logic, however, Skinner has infringed on the free speech rights of many trolls.

[jehop61]

7. I do know

DU was hacked that night thereby denying us members a place to vent.

[Baitball Blogger]

13. It means that they think we can have an impact.

Do we have to file a complaint to help look for the person who targeted us?

[HughBeaumont]

15. +100. I always laugh when the mainstream calls DU a "fringe".

Well, if we're such an insignificant outlier as far as Democratic positions go, why even bother hacking us?

I don't recall major or minor news forums having this issue that night.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

25. The hack was a despicable and underhanded attack

However, it wasn't an infringement of freedom of speech.

Freedom of speech is the right to articulate one's opinions and ideas without fear of government retaliation or censorship, or societal sanction. The term freedom of expression is sometimes used synonymously, but includes any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used.

Neither the government nor society hacked the site. The hack itself did not disrupted the exchange media. The owners removed member access for the good and protection of everyone.

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[HughBeaumont]

27. Christ on a hoisted stick.

There. No mention of Constitutional ANYTHING.

[MichMan]

29. I suppose you could sue DU for allowing it to occur (sarcasm)

Not sure who you are blaming, but I suppose you could sue DU for allowing it to occur. I don't recommend it, and doubtful you have any recourse.

[proud patriot]

34. Indeed

Because together we are Powerful

[Different Drummer]

38. I, myself, blame Fox News for encouraging such intolerance.

BTW, I love the reference to "the MAGA Klan Cheerleading Squad.' Very accurate!

[jimlup]

39. I strongly believe it was part of a coordinated attack

I also still question the actual election results. Maybe they are correct but as an American citizen I should have no doubts. I do and they linger. I can imagine a sophisticated Russian hack of voting machines that swayed just enough votes in key states:

Florida, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan. It would not have needed to be a high percentage. The hack could have taken place at the voting machine level or the county level or the state final tally level. I would be curious to see serious and careful academic studies of voting versus exit polls along with other scientific comparisons. Why were Trump supporters so fucking afraid of recounts? Given their general trend of total belligerence it obviously is not an indication of guilt. Still, I am left wondering.

[VOX]

44. THIS! So much this.

I, too, am wondering...

[Initech]

52. We were silenced on election day.

And the thought just makes me absolutely sick. I think what the GOP did not just in the events leading up to the election, but the day of and since was declare war. They declared war on us to get that vacant seat on SCOTUS thanks to an act of treason committed by a scumbag Senate Majority Leader who hates us. What happened to us on election day was a small part of a much bigger problem. The GOP committed treason and got away with it,

[Meowmee]

54. + 5mil

Yeah it was creepy. No doubt in my mind the whole election was hacked. I had only just joined here nov 7 th. Then came back the next week to find the site down. I never saw the video.

[HughBeaumont]

61. Hmmmmmmmmmm . . . .

You know there's something to that.

[jimlup]

69. Thanks for the link

[moda253]

42. This is the stupidest and most petty fucking argument I've read on here yet.

Holy hell. Why did I read that?

[VOX]

45. You've only been here 6 months. Give it time.

A belated welcome to DU!

[alittlelark]

49. Really???

[Skittles]

55. you don't read much

[Warpy]

51. Because this is the opposition site that a lot of people are watching

some to see what their enemies are thinking or plotting, some who think we're weirdoes and are looking for a place to put their anger, some because they're looking for what rank and file Democrats who pay attention are thinking and certainly a few who are looking for material to use in shows and in writing.

I was lucky, I post on a site with other foul mouthed knitters and socially progressive troglodytes (their quote) who weren't having any of the election results and suspected we'd been diddled. Again.

This is a site non members love to disparage but it's a site they all pay attention to, whether or not they admit it.

I've seen my own stuff, unattributed, all over the place.

[KT2000]

53. those were dark days

. I wish we knew more about what happened. The video that played was so strange and ugly. I think it was foreign in origin, likely Russia through their people in Australia.

[Vinca]

62. Why us? Because DU is one of the most popular left leaning web sites.

We are also home to many smart people with political connections who would be on the phone immediately if someone reported an election irregularity in real time.

[HughBeaumont]

64. But I thought we were an anomaly . . . a "Fringe" . . . .

. . . compared to the vaunted "Free Republic", with it's Mosaic 2.0 high tech.

We're more powerful than we believe.

[pressbox69]

66. Just shows

How feared the voice of DU is by foreign hackers and the puppets they installed in our White House.