Bernie! Bernie, bernie bernie bernie bernie bernie. Bernie: Bernie bernie

[ProfessorPlum]

Why are some people so afraid that people like Senator Sanders?

He really seems to scare people. People here.

He's just one senator, guys. One old senator. One old senator who fights for some humaneness from the government. Who fights trickle down economics. Who likes the social safety net.

It's going to be ok - Sanders isn't going to come short sheet your beds when you aren't looking.

He's a great asset, ally, and friend to the best parts of the Democratic party and policies.

Enjoy him. He's fighting to make your lives better, too.

You can smear him all you want, but it is his IDEAS that are popular, and you can't change that by trying to throw out weird put downs or with purity tests that no other politician is measured by.

Relax already.

[boston bean]

1. I'm not afraid of Sanders. I just can't stand his smears on democrats.

[NastyRiffraff]

4. Exactly

I'm tired of him presenting himself as some sort of savior when all he does is bash the Democratic Party. Yes, "bash" is different from "criticize" The latter can be legitimate, the former isn't.

[ProfessorPlum]

11. I think you are fighting the Scary StrawBernie!

and not the actual man and politician.

Scary StrawBernie is veeerrry scccaaarrrreyy.

[elleng]

14. Right, all STRAW.

I wonder why.

[bettyellen]

20. Maybe fight the Putin planned schism by not being part of the problem

It's one thing if it was done in ignorance last year- but this is just more RT/ Putin crap. Do not want.

[ProfessorPlum]

41. Right?

I mean, people have to stop talking about Sanders. He's just one progressive politician. He has some power as a US senator, but basically right now he is just one reliable progressive vote in the Senate. So let's let him do his thing opposing Hair Fuhror, and we can do ours, and everyone can be happy.

[bettyellen]

54. I agree- the media used Bernie because they love amplifying rifts in the party....

Anyone who trashed Hillary was given a megaphone. You'd think after it being exposed that this was promoted with Russian bots people would stop this crap! Instead we get "Sanders takeover" crap to this day. It's insane.

[ProfessorPlum]

78. "the media used Bernie" is not a convincing way to describe what happened

the media ignored and shut out Sanders for the most part.

[bettyellen]

121. You should look at the stats in positive coverage. No one was as coddled by the media...

Before the primaries were lost in April. The media had a huge bias and GOP superpacs were pushing him as well as Putin. There was a lot of media air propping him up according to all surveys- and the media encouraged him to attack Dems. They're doing the same to this day. Only suckers fall for that.

[LakeArenal]

164. Really? Coddled? Yes especially by the DNC and Wasserman Schultz..(not)

Talk about smears...

[bettyellen]

169. We're talking about media coverage.... there are actual stats and research done...

[calimary]

141. Not so sure about that one.

For Pete's sake, if one was a regular viewer of "All In with Chris Hayes", one might have been tempted to think the host had taken Bernie Sanders on as cohost, or was actively auditioning to be his press secretary if he'd won the White House (or both). Bernie got TONS of coverage. From EVERYWHERE, print, broadcast, cable, EVERYWHERE. And all of it was favorable. Seemed like he was everybody's darling, from one end of the primary season to the other. When they weren't fawning all over trump, that is.

[LisaM]

160. I agree with that. Hillary got no positive coverage.

It was upsetting, and yes, I'm still upset.

[bettyellen]

173. It was like 80 plus % negative on Hillary - it was their theme and many many

Sanders interviews had the theme- what's wrong w democrats. He is still being used as a wedge. See it here every day.

[LisaM]

197. Yes, a bit of a tipping point today.

I think a lot of people suddenly got tired of being lectured by someone who didn't put a single boot on the ground in a very tight race.

[calimary]

175. Yeah, unfortunately so am I.

And I hate that. Wish it didn't still bother me. But it does. She got such a raw deal. SO persecuted.

I hate to see valuable resources wasted - like those brains. I wanted (and still want) THOSE brains in the Oval Office.

I guess trying to break that last, biggest glass ceiling will leave you mighty cut-up.

[KPN]

196. And I'm not so sure about that. I saw things 180 degrees differently.

To me, the media ignored Bernie for the most part. We all have our biased perceptions. But so what? What does any of this accomplish?

Why must folks here at DU criticize just about everything that comes out of Bernie's mouth. How does anything he says divide us unless we divide ourselves?

PS -- I supported and voted Bernie in the primary. Supported and voted Hillary in the GE. Have been a registered Dem for 45 years. I don't care whether Bernie calls himself a Democrat, and Independent or a Democratic Socialist. I agree with his views about income inequality, an unfair playing field, getting big money out of politics, a single payer health plan, free college tuition at public universities, rebuilding our infrastructure, etc., etc. That's what matters to me.

[bettyellen]

206. Well you could google the studies done on hours given on TV and the slant of coverage ...

It was a real eye opener to me, how much more positive press was given to Sanders and Trump. It's really astounding to read the stats.

[KPN]

226. No question Hillary got the most negative coverage of any candidate -- by far. Not sure

that means the media had a favorable bias toward Bernie. Bernie got slighted coverage-wise -- positive and negative. He definitely got nowhere near the coverage Hillary got ... but Hillary definitely got hammered, I'll give you all that.

At any rate, I think the anti-Bernie camp here is overstating his "positive" media coverage and pretty much ignoring the relative lack of coverage he experienced especially early on. As far as negatives re: Bernie, yeah, the media went lighter on him -- but he also didn't have a lot of baggage to go after anyway -- other than he's a "socialist".

My point in my response was really that our biases play a big role in how we view media coverage. To me, Chris Hayes was hyper-critical of Bernie -- but I know I was biased toward Bernie at the time. And regarding the "Bernie got tons of coverage", I had the exact opposite impression. My sense was that he was slighted by the media. It was always about Hillary and the GOP, and then about Hillary and Trump. That's the way I saw and felt about it. The studies/analyses I've seen support that.

BTW, I did google this as you suggested ... and if you want I'd be happy to share the stuff that I found.

Again, there's no question Hillary got hammered by the media generally and at a greater frequency by the media though.

[bettyellen]

319. I think she got skewered the most - and mostly about emails...

When it came to getting face time, Sanders got much more coverage and it was overwhelmingly favorable according to all reports I've read. HRC was hounded with insults about how "likable" she wasn't and silenced when it came to talking policy.

[kstewart33]

315. That's simply not true.

Bernie got a lion's share of publicity, much more than Clinton who received the worst coverage of any of the presidential candidates. There's analysis on this.

[KPN]

198. Oh brother! So it was Bernie's fault ...

he did that, not the right wing sites and Fox News?

I don't buy any of this argument. There's no substance to it. The right wing media didn't smear Bernie, and because of that, just by existing he hurt Hillary. Give me a break.

[brush]

114. If he would only oppose trump instead of the Dem party.

[DownriverDem]

140. Exactly

We all need to focus on beating the repubs.

[KPN]

200. He does oppose Trump ... pretty much daily.

[brush]

234. As he does the Democratic Party.

[ehrnst]

334. That would be refreshing.

Using one's brand to build the resistance to DT, instead of using the resistance to DT to build one's own brand.

Saw that on twitter today.

[lapucelle]

207. "I mean, people have to stop talking about Sanders"

You're the one who brought him up.

[macandsandy]

301. There seem to be people fightened of Bernie

I don't get why some on DU are so frightened of Bernie -

Here is the ONE guy who's fought for what's right for all the little guys -
really you are afraid of him??? Have you ever listened to him on Lunch with Bernie over the years???

He's not an elitist - he's interested in making life better for all of us.

Regards

[tiredtoo]

221. Right

Hate to think of this group being played by the Russian oligarchs. Why oh why must you continue this quibbling?

[NastyRiffraff]

24. I'm not at all scared of him

I just don't like him. I trust that's allowed on DU?

[SaschaHM]

34. Not for Bernie apparantly.

[StubbornThings]

39. What about Bernie don't you like?

He's a Senator that almost always votes with Democrats. Is that what you don't like?
What about fighting for Medicare for all, a living wage, getting money out of politics, etc., and doing it his whole life? Don't like those things?
How about traveling and campaigning harder than any other leader to get more Democrats elected? That part?
And, meeting with republican voters to try and get them to vote for Democrats. That bother you too?

Care to explain what you don't like?

[NastyRiffraff]

224. No I don't "care to explain"

because if I do I'll get alerted. I've fallen for THAT trap for the last time. I don't owe you an explanation about anything.

I don't like Bernie Sanders.

[Chevy]

245. Been here 14 years never been alerted on

till this last primary and multiple times. And I'm very diplomatic.

[NastyRiffraff]

267. I hear you

Same here; you've beat me by a year on DU with no alerts until this year. I've gotten so I can recognize a trap when I see it!

[LakeArenal]

165. You are fine. It's those who like Bernie that are hassled.

.

[BrooklynTech]

260. But...

I *guarantee* you if you said you don't like Hillary your post would be removed.

[JudyM]

269. Welcome to DU, Brooklyn.

[BrooklynTech]

271. Thanks!

[Eliot Rosewater]

124. This sounds like a talking point, where did you get it?

[Me.]

142. !

[Stryst]

162. The constant attacks on the DNC?

The same DNC who's chair refused to help Dems in Florida take seats from Republican senators who were her friends?

The DNC is not perfect, it is not a church, and it's not above some criticisms. It's a private organization that has worked with another large private organization to make sure that no one who doesn't bend knee to either party is allowed to run.

There are a LOT of liberals and progressives who feel STRONGLY that the Democratic party doesn't really represent liberalism or progressiveness.

So, instead of listening to the complaints, we call them attacks and hit the ban button.

Man alive, I sure am glad that I'm part of the party that believes in freedom of speech and expression.

[adigal]

166. I'm a liberal Dem and I hate the DNC.

And if the attacks from moderate Dems continue on Bernie and his "horrible terrible" ideas like single payer healthcare and NY states' new free public college tuition, I more than likely will leave the Democratic party. Cause i have had enough. Including the vicous attacks here and on dailykos for months, calling me a Republican and a "concern troll" cause I said all along that I thought Trump would beat Hillary.
I will be done.

[bettyellen]

174. The DNC completely cleaned house- so please explain ....

[Sunlei]

294. I agree with you, I hated seeing the DNC act all 'status quo' and dump DWS during a critical time.

This 'new DNC' better start to be ALL inclusive or Republicans media attack Juggernaut will peck it to pieces again

[KPN]

204. THIS

[ehrnst]

193. +1000. (nt)

[ProfessorPlum]

9. yes, that's what is in all the papers, Bernie denounces Democrats,

Bernie hates Democrats, Bernie gives Democrats the finger.

Oh, wait, no actually I see him mostly just giving Dolt 45 the finger. That's what he's spending his time doing.

Gee.

[elleng]

16. Yes indeed, THAT's what he does, gives '45' the finger.

[KittyWampus]

99. Except when he's calling the Democratic party "feeble" and saying they didn't address

the problems of people in Kentucky... when in fact Clinton had a platform addressing economic revival there away from coal.

[adigal]

168. Come on, Kitty, the Dems HAVE been feeble, always keeping that damn powder dry

They should have fought like hell for Merrick Garland. And another 1000 things. They are getting ballsier now, and that makes me happy, but Bernie, Elizabeth W and Maxine W are leading the way here.

[BainsBane]

177. Why is it okay for him to crticize Democrats

but not okay for Democrats to criticize him?

[adigal]

316. Criticism is fine, but calling him a traitor, saying he is in cahoots with Russia like I saw on

twitter...that is just ridiculous.

[BainsBane]

317. That isn't what people are arguing against here

and I certainly have my criticisms of Sanders, and I have never said anything to that effect. In fact, I've argued against it when I saw it, not because I care about him but because I care about evidence.

The effort here is to silence any criticism of Sanders, including concern over his endorsement of pro-life candidates. We have been called "corporate" for daring to question him. That's about as dishonest of an attack as exists, on par with the traitor crap. And it's gone on for a long time. People need to quit trying to enforce obedience to him. It's unseemly and anti-democratic. It's also divisive. I believe in democracy, not monarchy or caudillismo. I won't subscribe to any political ethos that is all about one man. I consider it disturbingly reactionary.

[JudyM]

270. THIS is so true. It is a huge part of why we are where we are. Garland as well as not standing up

to and strategically prioritizing gerrymandering, voting equipment integrity, voting rights assaults and dark money. Complacency when we needed to fight like hell.

[Plucketeer]

122. Yeah, I get worn down

listening to Bernie drone on about how horrible the Democrats are. You'd THINK he could find something else to do with his time. But no...

"Democrats this 'n Democrats that 'n those dastardly Dems! Ya hafta wonder why I continually caucus with them and rail on about my dumbass progressive ideas! I was getting $27 bucks per fan and not offering so much as a limp french fry, while others paid thousands for 2 bucks worth of seasoned chicken. Shows how shrewd I ain't! That's why I caucus with them - so's I can learn their secrets to success."

[Chevy]

10. Not afraid but have four concerns.

1) Constant attacks on Dems
2) Taxes
3)Tad Devine.
4) What does the GOP Op research contain(just those videos already seen?)And who else has access to it.

[ProfessorPlum]

17. " 1) Constant attacks on Dems"

Are you talking about Scary StrawBernie? Maybe he's the one that is constantly attacking Dems. Ooohhh! He's scary. But at least there is no evidence of him.


Don't look now! Scary StrawBernie is making the milk turn sour, and causing the apples to rot.

[Chevy]

21. Nice way to treat your allies some positive would be nice. N/T

[ProfessorPlum]

45. Indeed! My allies aren't afraid of an progressive senator

My allies are happy he is in the senate, making things harder for Toupee Fiasco.

My allies get lots of positive. And very little negative.

[Chevy]

50. When marching into battle you don't undercut them from behind N/T

[ProfessorPlum]

80. unlike what we do to our ally Sanders, who seems to be the victim of Dolchsto

every day here

[Chevy]

87. When POC and womens concerns

are considered negotiable then many will not take so kindly. Clearly you must see this.

[ProfessorPlum]

95. ?

Lost the "trail" of your "thoughts"

[Chevy]

107. You know exactly what that means N/T

[juxtaposed]

136. I'm not sure what you mean?

[Chevy]

149. Pandering to racists and putting

women's health care as a negotiating tactic to reach out to Turnip voters does not fly well. NEWSFLASH: I'm a white male and I understand this and hear this every day. Perhaps the Senator and his some of his supporters should as well.

[juxtaposed]

150. ive never heard that, got a link

[Chevy]

154. Please research

1)Bernie Sanders on Joe Scarborough (abortion)
2) Bernie Sanders- Trump voters are not racists(At all)

[uponit7771]

254. +1

[LakeArenal]

170. Love ya ProfessorPlum

[bettyellen]

28. You gotta love the lack of self reflection that has you using "witch hunt" analogies....

It's right up there with pretending he was widely denounced as a racist.

[ProfessorPlum]

38. too confusing. didn't read

are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me?

[bettyellen]

40. Didn't read, yet want a reply? LOL rude.

[brush]

119. Make light of it but we don't like the bashing and him saying he's not a Dem and never will be.

I guess he only played one on TV during the primaries but then went back to being an independent when he didn't win.

There's a word for that.

And that is why many have a bad taste in their mouth about the whole thing.

Nothing scary, just annoying.

[ehrnst]

344. Yeah. And really self-aware, too.

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2014/11/19/365024592/sen-bernie-sanders-on-how-democrats-lost-white-voters

[brush]

351. That's a pretty old interview, but shows his concern for WWC voters. It's always about white...

working voters though, as if POCs aren't part of the working class.

That's why he lost. He never connected with minority voters. Even after the election he was still going on about the Dems need to stop playing "identity politics". In other words, stop identifying with POCs issues.

[ehrnst]

355. If it doesn't directly affect WWC straight males, then it's not "universal."

I mean, once everything is great for WWC straight males, all other things will "right themselves."

You know, like in Europe, where there is universal health coverage, a strong labor movement, and absolutely no nationalism, sexism, racism, homophobia or xenophobia....

All the rest of the non WWC straight males need to do is wait for the rights to "trickle down."

[brush]

356. Yes. Preach!

[Eliot Rosewater]

128. There it is again, "Scary StrawBernie"...where did you get this talking point?

[BainsBane]

180. It's not straw

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=sanders+crticizes+democratic+party

I find it fascinating how Sanders supporters preach understanding of Trump voters, yet are willingly to demonstrate none of that toward Democratic voters. Do I have to pretend I voted for Trump to matter?

[Fla Dem]

214. This is what really irks me about Bernie.................

Instead of saying something positive about Jon Ossoff he in effect questions his Progressive bona fides. This send a message to his followers that Ossoff might not be a great candidate. He makes these snide remarks against Democrats and the Democratic Party all the time. I'm not saying he shouldn't have opinions, just keep the underhanded remarks out of it.

Link to tweet

And then he supports this person who opposes abortion.

Link to tweet

[Chevy]

246. That Heath Mello support is truly disturbing N/T

[Omaha Steve]

255. We donated to Mello

We can't vote for him because he is across the county line. He was a great State Senator. We will be at Bernie's rally for him tonight!!!

OS

[ehrnst]

336. Taxes x10.

[StubbornThings]

13. I know. He hates them, right?

He hates their message. He hates when they win. He hates when they work with him. He hates traveling and campaigning with them to get more of them elected.

Hate, hate, hate.

Why doesn't he just join the Republican party already?

[bettyellen]

48. He claims Dems don't have a message. Seemed to hate HRC winning at the convention, yes....

Took 4-6 weeks off after and only campaigned half heartedly during the GE for 4-6 weeks. Allows Putin and RWers, the media and supporters to promote rifts in the party to this day. It's tiresome, for sure.

[StubbornThings]

57. Exactly. No better than a Republican.

[ProfessorPlum]

60. I once saw StrawBernie kill a Democrat just by Smearing him. Constantly.

it was awful

[bettyellen]

70. That you could joke about this says a lot to me. I'm going to bet you have less "skin" in the game..

Women, immigrants and POC aren't so quick to joke about some people's inability to get on board against Trump. WTF? Selfish people, all about the ego instead of doing the best we can.

[ProfessorPlum]

81. ?

lol whut?

[The Wielding Truth]

82. Gees. He didn't get us here. Let's fight the Russians and the hard hearted Republicans instead.OK?

[ProfessorPlum]

96. Hear hear!

[Leith]

66. I Just Checked His Official Facebook and Twitter Pages

and the closest thing to a smear was him encouraging Democrats to work harder to get the center part of the US. Would you like to show us quotes or videos where he is bashing Democrats?

Thanks.

[ProfessorPlum]

83. thank you

that Bernie with his constant smears on Democrats! He won't get away with it!

[Leith]

109. I've Been Reading a Lot of Those Bernie Bashing Posts

And it makes me wonder wtf is going on. The best I can come up with is "outside influence."

For the sincere posters who are American, please think (then think harder) about what you are doing.

[Akamai]

158. Leith -- I sure agree with your concerns on this issue. Bernie has always focused on issues

And those issues are important to the majority of Americans.

Maybe the problem was the Morning Joe inspired dustup after which Bernie said that he might have questions about Hillary's qualifications.

A day before that in the Morning Joe Show, morning Joe asked Hillary three times if she thought that Bernie was qualified, and three time she refused to answer "yes", thereby suggesting (as far as I can tell) that she thought she concerns about Bernie's general qualifications. Unfortunately, that was made into a Washington Post headline in that precipitated Bernie's statement regarding his wondering whether Hillary was qualified--if she believed certain things.

Things are pretty much always said in the heat of a campaign that one regrets, and I'm sure both Hillary and Bernie regret that little dustup.

And of course there are trolls, tribal loyalties, and Russian bots who exploited whatever rifts started to appear.

[Leith]

201. Thank You for That

I don't watch Morning Joe, mainly because I live in the Pacific Time Zone and I won't wake up in the middle of the night to watch that bunch of yahoos.

But for this argument to keep going on here like it does can only be a combination of trolls and tribal loyalists (to be polite about it) who just want to keep bashing somebody on their own side. I really can't understand why any of them want to have this fight. It just tells me that the Americans involved in it (if there are any) are so easily swayed to hate that they may as well join the Tea Baggers and harass patients going into Planned Parenthood. They would cause less harm that way.

[G_j]

276. Considering is it said he is the most popular politician on the scene today

excessive and obsessive hating on him seems a bit counterproductive.

[Leith]

278. The Kremlin Considers It Very Productive

Which is why I find it hard to believe that any honest American keeps doing it.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

120. Exactly

I just find Sanders to mostly be about Sanders. Maybe not in an ultra-narcissistic "Trumpian" way, but I feel like some supporters have practically elevated him to godhood and are pretty much ignoring or diminishing anything that anybody else is saying or doing- and Sanders is kind of going along with it. I know that he caucuses with the Democrats and supports just about everything that I support, but I worry sometimes that he is drawing too much attention from the Democratic Party (which he is being made an unofficial representative of but isn't an official member of) and encouraging the "both sides" view that many people have of the two major political parties.

[onetexan]

151. Yup he's not a real democrat

he brands himself "a democratic socialist", whatever that is.
Nevertheless, he's on our side and my lady friends & i are going to see him this Thursday here in Dallas area . Keith Ellison will be there as well. I was hoping it would be Tom Perez but given the political climate at this point i'm inclined to listen to any good Dem.

[adigal]

163. What smears? During the campaign against Hillary?

Do you forget the things Hillary said about Obama in 2008. That's politics.

[boston bean]

183. Nope not what I am referring to.

[Progressive dog]

191. Yes

[Doitnow]

225. It may appear to you that Bernie is smearing Dems, but I think he is asking them to

really stand up for democratic ideals---to be better Democrats. More power to him.

[boston bean]

230. Is womens choice a democratic ideal or not.

I guess bernie gets to decide heh? Cause he certainly is not holding his candidates to it if it is. And he criticizes other who do.

I just want to understand the new rules to be a good democrat.

[ehrnst]

341. I think he's shrewd.

And that he is building a brand smearing Dems and portraying himself as the final arbiter on what is and isn't "progressive."

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2014/11/19/365024592/sen-bernie-sanders-on-how-democrats-lost-white-voters

[PoliticalPie]

228. I am fine with Bernie bashing conservative Democratic like WV Manchin and I agree about Ossoff.

Last edited Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:54 PM - Edit history (3)

Here is Ossoff's campaign page. https://electjon.com/

I don't see any specific liberal policies listed. I believe Bernie says he doesn't know if Ossoff is progressive. I don't see any evidence he is liberal and I prefer the political label, liberal. I have no idea what progressive means since some very conservative Democratic use that label. And when I say conservative I mean not pushing for increasing the minimum wage and doing nothing about the increasing control of the entire election process by Republicans who do want more Democratic voters removed and stopped from voting.

[ehrnst]

349. Here are Ossoff's policies:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/4/19/1654449/-Jon-Ossoff-on-the-issues-presented-in-a-way-Bernie-Sanders-can-understand

[PoliticalPie]

357. Why aren't they on his campaign page?

[stonecutter357]

302. +1

[randome]

2. He isn't a one-man army. Plenty of people are fighting to make our lives better.

Most of them are Democrats.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[ProfessorPlum]

3. I wouldn't even be thinking much about him now except that he keeps getting chewed on like a dog

with a bone here.

I'd think "there's that Senator Sanders, who ran such a surprisingly successful campaign, got a lot of young people excited about voting Democratic, and supported Clinton in her race against the Marmalade Shartcannon. Look, he's doing some good fighting something the Orange Menace wants."

and that would be that. The thing keeping him alive as a national figure, in my mind, is all of the screaming hysterics on this site.

[Thor_MN]

118. Seems to me that you are the one digging up that bone...

Just saying...

[ehrnst]

350. +1000. (nt)

[elleng]

5. Thanks, ProfessorPlum.

I agree, much too much scaring happening here. I wonder why people here don't/can't evaluate his substantive contributions to the rational policies progressives seek. He IS a great asset, ally, and friend to the best parts of the Democratic party and policies.

[ProfessorPlum]

22. exactly! rational policies are what we seek

and Sanders champions rational policies.

[ehrnst]

277. White straight male centric policies are not "rational" for the rest of us

Link to tweet

[NCTraveler]

6. Now we are calling people scaredy-cats...

"He's just one senator, guys. One old senator."

[NCTraveler]

89. It gets even better.

[HughBeaumont]

7. I'm furious that America thought HE was too big a risk, but Schtroumpf was perfectly OK.

America had a chance to become closer to their European/Scandinavian counterparts, but found their spine just wasn't quite ready.

The thousands upon thousands that attended his rallies, talking about the economic and human rights issues Americans give a shit about and are genuinely hurting them . . . I mean, come on, it SEEMS like a smart idea to drive them away, NO?

[ProfessorPlum]

27. when you put it that way, it's even more depressing and enraging

that the American people are so afraid to stand up on their rear legs and fight for themselves.

[HughBeaumont]

257. Americans want to win WITHOUT fighting for it.

It's why the whole "We're the most powerful nation in the world" crap rings hollow.

"Powerful" would imply "more intelligent", "more willing to stand up and help others", "stronger" . . . yet nearly every institution of power here is run by mostly rich white male third-basers who make laws to favor rich white male third-basers.

America goes right along with it, because we mistake "faith" for "strength". We have "faith" that we're going to BE the next Bill Gates; we just need that one lucky break or unique circumstance, which seems far easier and more plausible a feat than just demanding economic fairness and human rights so one can live comfortably instead of hoping a lottery comes our way. We think the CEOs of the land have something unique and special about them; otherwise, they wouldn't have earned all this money, right? The only unique thing about many of them is that they fell out of the right womb at the right time.

If Orange Lincoln Rockwell wanted to start a nuclear war, there'd would be not ONE member of the police or military there to arrest him. They'd simply bask in the shockwave and get vaporized before they'd step out of line and say "wait, this fucker's committing a war crime, a crime against humanity. Oh well, he's rich, and the rich know best, right?" And America would burn to death, all because we took the easy way out . . . a path we choose with stunning regularity.

[SammyWinstonJack]

132. Maddening isn't it?

[StubbornThings]

8. Hey! Who said you can create a thread that doesn't mention O'Reilly?

[ProfessorPlum]

86. LOL

[standingtall]

12. The idea that Democrats want to be represented by Democrats

Last edited Wed Apr 26, 2017, 06:31 PM - Edit history (1)

is not a purity. The fact that he wants to act as someone that is leading the Democratic not only while not joining it,but to not even consider himself a Democrat. Is basically spitting in the face of the Democratic party.

[StubbornThings]

25. Maybe he, like many of us, aren't concerned about labels.

As long as the person is fighting for things like Medicare for all, a living wage, getting money out of politics, and many other progressive things, it really doesn't matter what letter they put behind their name.

[ProfessorPlum]

30. who gives a shart about that?

I don't. why should you? So he doesn't join. It doesn't sound like you want him in the party anyway.

[standingtall]

42. Not true

I never had no problem with Bernie before last night. He was suggesting that the primaries be open to independents which would make the Democratic party irrelevant. The members of the party should decide who represents it during election. Not independents or republicans. Either Bernie should get in our party or go start his own party.

[ProfessorPlum]

46. Sounds like you are afraid of Bernie

It's the last straw!

[standingtall]

52. What reason do I have to be afraid of Bernie?

Bernie isn't some kind of super hero.

[ProfessorPlum]

85. that really is the mystery, isn't it

[Adrahil]

117. If he doesn;t want to join, that's fine...

but then he needs to need advice to himself. I can't stand backseat driver assholes. Commit, or shut the fuck up, Bernie!

[That Guy 888]

280. I think actions speak louder than words.

Senator Sanders actions represent where I want our party to go. I especially like that he doesn't surrender policies that many Americans and most Democratic voters want before getting to the negotiating table.

[elleng]

19. YES!

THANK YOU!

[elleng]

37. I agree, and it shocks me.

I'm glad for this thread today, as I've thought of starting one, but would rather 'take cover' under other rational posters' umbrella.

(I've also thought there might be some 'professional' 'divide and conquer' going on.)

[ProfessorPlum]

47. yes. me too

[MelissaB]

129. I've wondered the same thing.

[elleng]

203. Hi, MelissaB.

I took a break, and won't likely continue on this thread, but good to see you here.

[MelissaB]

216. Thanks!

I took a break for a while as well. It's great to see some familiar faces.

[sheshe2]

217. You may wish to check who you are responding to. nt

[ProudLib72]

18. Calling Democrats elitists

and then asking them to embrace independents does not make for a convincing argument. It's like that Groucho joke about not wanting to be in a club that would have him as a member.

[ProfessorPlum]

33. Keep talking about the Scary StrawBernie

and we'll see who actually dismisses him.

(Hint, Scary StrawBernie murders people who dismiss him. At night!)

[Chevy]

44. Scary StrawBernie? Please stop this you sound unhinged. N/T

[SaschaHM]

51. "sound". That's being nice. nt.

[ehrnst]

338. Next up: Scary RussianStuff is just a distraction

from how the Dems have refused to listen to a true messenger.

[NanceGreggs]

143. The only "Straw Bernie" here ...

... is the one you've created.

No one is "afraid" of Bernie. Some people (like myself) dislike him intensely, believe he used the Democratic Party to further his own self-serving ambitions, and is an insufferable hypocrite. There is no "fear" in any of that.

"It would be hypocritical of me to run as a Democrat because of the things I have said about the party." - Bernie Sanders

[ehrnst]

339. Saw a great tweet today

Instead of using his brand to build the resistance to DT, he's using the resistance to DT to build his brand.

Which is very shrewd if you are in it for personal gain.

[NanceGreggs]

340. ...

[SaschaHM]

26. "Purity tests that no other politician is measure by."

The fucking nerve. People can critique Bernie for his shit. They do it all the time for Democrats.

[ProfessorPlum]

35. Da Noive

[Siwsan]

31. I am never shy about voicing my admiration and support for Senator Sanders

I still have my Bernie 2016 sticker on my car.

I had NO problem supporting and voting Hillary, once she secured the nomination, and would have been over the moon, had there been no tampering and she been declared the winner. I even did my utmost to swing angry Bernie supporters over and convince them to vote for her because I wanted what was best for the country.

But I will never deny that, when all is said and done, I still wish I had been casting that vote for Bernie. Would the outcome have been different? Who knows.

[ProfessorPlum]

36. I feel the same way

happy to support Clinton, and even happier to get to cast a vote for Sanders in the primary.

[panader0]

43. As I posted earlier, Independents are the largest bloc of voters.

40% to 30% over Democrats. Bernie is the most prominent Independent.
Why do so many at DU want to alienate Independents? Are those that do
really supporting the party by doing so?

[ProfessorPlum]

49. Answer: No

and it's a really good question

[Samantha]

248. You are so right

I think Bernie is being very smart reaching out to all voters. I read some time ago, Independents are now 42 percent of the voting population. That is so much higher than it used to be because Democrats have lost so many voters. Republicans as well.

Shortly before the Massachusetts primary was set to occur, the Secretary of State stepped out and said 20,000 Democrats had left the party so far that year. 18,000 had re-registered as Independents, and 3,000 had signed up with the Republicans. I thought those figures were staggering.

In Vermont, Sanders attracts voters from all sides of the aisles, and I believe he has the capacity to do that in the General Election as well.

What people call "bashing" the Democratic party is an overkill statement. Bernie gives constructive criticism. There is quite a difference. He is attempting to coax the Third Way ("Establishment&quot Dems into not so much compromising with Republicans as moving over to the progressive side of the aisle. Looking at the Republican party today, I support that effort he is making.

Sam

[Greybnk48]

53. Thank You!

I've been saying WTF all day at some of these posts. You were more succinct, lol.

[ProfessorPlum]

61. wtf indeed

I share your sentiment

[DanTex]

55. Nobody is afraid of him. Some people disagree with his diagnoses of the Democratic Party.

[ProfessorPlum]

63. and that's 100% a ok

But let's give it a rest already, shall we? Jeebus, we have bigger fish to fry.

[DanTex]

113. I think you should get used to the fact that Bernie is a controversial figure among

a lot of Democrats, and as long as he continues to say the kinds of things he has been saying, he will continue to be controversial.

[mac56]

209. Riiiiight. Because controversial is always bad and scary.

[DanTex]

211. No, controversial is just controversial.

It means he creates controversy with his actions and statements.

Some people think he is bad, some people think he is great. That's why there are so many threads about him.

[delisen]

56. Ah a new Tack on Sanders.It is a "Disarming" tack until the Smear AT-Tack

comes in near the end.

My paraphrase:

Soft Voice: Hello little Scaredy Cats. Relax, He can't hurt you. Enjoy it, He doing it for you. He's not going to play a trick on you when you're not looking.He is just an old man who wants the best for you. He is your friend. He likes your good parts and will make them better.

Then Angry voice: Boom! "You're saying things about him that are not true. Liars. Smear-ers. Well, you're not going to get away with it !"

Return to Soft Voice: Relax

Session over.

Thank you. All in fun.

[ProfessorPlum]

67. I'm just going to back away slowly and close the door, Mkay?

you have a little lie down.

[ismnotwasm]

58. Afraid? No

Annoyed? Yes. He can be annoying. That being said, if he doesn't split the ticket with his "revolution", by continuing to work with Democrats, openly acknowledges that POC and women--particularly AA's, are the stalwart Democratic base, stops chasing the votes of racist fucks--I don't give a shit what logging/mining/factory towns they're from, and helps strengthen the progressive vote, I can put aside my personal distaste and welcome "Scary Bernie" "Strawman Bernie" whatever clever nickname we are giving him today-- wholeheartedly

[ProfessorPlum]

68. exactly

and there is every evidence that he is continuing to do all of those things.

[ismnotwasm]

97. Then it's a win win

I believe Bernie needs to actively court some of the people he alienated by giving the impression that the "neo-poor white" vote is the one that needs to be pursued. Deserved or not, that impression remains. I understand he's not going to change his delivery--as has been pointed out many, many times, he hasn't changed his message in forty years. I hope to see some evidence of this kind of reach out as well.

[PBass]

59. I can understand both sides.

I like Bernie a lot. His policies are great.

But he called for a primary challenger against President Obama in 2012. That kind of stuff is counter-productive.

Both sides have points. Overall, Bernie is clearly a force for good though.

[ProfessorPlum]

69. that's also my assessment of him

[delisen]

72. Like a summer storm-usually appreciated.

[hrmjustin]

62. To criticize him is not smearing him.

[ProfessorPlum]

71. indeed not!

smearing him, on the other hand, IS smearing him.

[hrmjustin]

77. True and there have been unfair things said about him here,and...

...Some fair criticisms said as well.

[ProfessorPlum]

101. fair criticisms are indeed welcome, for all!

constantly lying about the guy, however, is kind of transparently shitty. And I don't like it.

[Demit]

64. This post is classic flame bait.

[ProfessorPlum]

73. Cmon, bite!!! It isn't like Team "Sanders hates Democratic Babies"

hasn't been baiting us all, every day, here.

Lord, you'd think Sanders was our biggest problem to read some of these posts.

[Demit]

79. Flame bait. A post like this exacerbates the problem.

[ProfessorPlum]

92. I disagree. The problem exacerbates the problem

Let's get it out in the open and mock it, which it so decidedly deserves.

[bekkilyn]

104. Yes, every time I visit this site

A new "Bernie is the Antichrist" type post has popped up.

[ProfessorPlum]

112. I notice the same thing

It's almost robotic.

[Heartstrings]

241. Way too much energy being spent on a good guy rather than a bad one...

We need to focus.

[JudyM]

272. Yes. Same, same, same.

[diva77]

65. Yes! +1000. The culprit behind the lost election: voting machines, Crosscheck, gerrymandering

etc.

People are looking to pin blame somewhere for the lost elections.

I wish they would channel their anger into demanding paper ballots hand counted at precinct level with oversight.

I wish they would demand an end to outsourcing voter rolls to corporations -- Crosscheck purged countless Dems from the rolls and turned people into felons for simply having a name similar to someone in another state.

I wish they would demand an end to gerrymandering.

I wish they would work to install unbiased Secretaries of State in every state and remove the Katherine Harris style SOS's that are there now.

If you're concerned about our democracy, Bernie is not the problem. Everything I mentioned above IS the problem.

[ProfessorPlum]

76. Best reply on this thread

You are exactly, 100% correct. Those problems are real problems. And need to be addressed toute de suite

[LakeArenal]

176. They wern't listening, they're not listening still. Perhaps they never will.

[ornotna]

202. They would not listen, they did not know how

Perhaps they'll listen now.





Yeah, probably not.

[LakeArenal]

210. Yeah, not...sigh

[Ligyron]

229. Bull's eye!

[JudyM]

273. Maybe the intention is just that, "look over there!" instead of supporting progress.

I hope that's not true, but it's having that effect.

[LexVegas]

74. Also hearts guns.

[bekkilyn]

98. Hearts a lot of other constitutional rights too. (nt)

[KittyWampus]

88. FFS, no one is 'afraid' of Sanders so your OP makes no sense. He's head of outreach for the party

and yet he attacks the party relentlessly while the party HAS to put with him.

His being an asset is no longer a given due to his own petulance and inability to modify his behavior or broaden his message.

He should stop insulting the Democratic party and Democrats, stop misleading the public about what they have and have not done in an attempt to puff himself up.

And the Democratic party platform ARE NOT HIS IDEAS.

You have so damned f*cking nerve to post on DU claiming that bulls*t.

[ProfessorPlum]

106. " he attacks the party relentlessly"

Seems kind of stupid for the Democratic Party to make him the head of outreach, doesn't it?

Maybe they are as stupid as StawBernie always says they are!!!111

[True Blue American]

145. Thank you.

[Luciferous]

90. Thank you for this!

[ProfessorPlum]

108. my sincere pleasure, my dear Luciferous

[juxtaposed]

91. bernie bernie bernie

[ProfessorPlum]

111. LOL, I thought of that too

[Orrex]

93. "They're afraid of Bernie" has been the propaganda rallying cry since the beginning

From the outset of his doomed primary campaign, his advocates have been declaring that "Hillary is afraid of Sanders," "The DNC is afraid of Sanders," "the GOP is afraid of Sanders," and "the media is afraid of Sanders." All fear, all the time, and none of it based in reality.

In short, no one is afraid of Sanders. Instead, Democrats are tired of this self-declared non-Democrat's ongoing attacks on Democrats thereby cheerleading for the GOP along the way.

Afraid? Not likely. Sick of it? Yes indeed.

[ProfessorPlum]

115. I'm sick of it too. Everyone should quit pooping their pants in fear about Sanders

and get on with deposing Adolf Sniffler!

[Brogrizzly]

126. You mean democrats like Tom Perez.

Those kind of democrats who are right now doing a tour with Bernie. *facepalm*

[Orrex]

146. Yes, he's terrified

See what I mean?

[calimary]

172. Welcome to DU, Brogrizzly!

Well, we do indulge in some crazy-making around here.

Makes me wonder what kind of virtual horsepower is generated because of the clear and genuine passions voiced here (guilty as charged, meself).

And it just occurred to me that the hyper-frank discussions here do something else: PROVE by demonstration that the Democratic Party is diverse.

I think, when I'm in touch with my higher self, that the visuals, the images, the optics, of Tom Perez on tour with Bernie Sanders all over the country, are REALLY great. It SHOWS they're building bridges and connections. Like the Hardy Boys or Starsky and Hutch or Abbott and Costello. What we in Catholic school called an "outward sign." It's a visual aid, so vitally important when trying to make a connection. As I've read and observed, when emotions get involved, a much stronger, more intimate, and visceral connection is made. Heart over head appears to be the more powerful connection. The superior choice which is far more likely to have staying power. You can think it all you want. But it's when you feel it that you become excited, involved, enthusiastic, passionate. This regime is hitting us in the heart and the gut, too. Maybe that's why trump&comp have sparked such energy on the Democratic side. We haven't seen that in ages! Dems tend to sleep through the midterms, but maybe those days are over?

[Heartstrings]

94. No seriously....I get it!

I'm pretty new to du, but have noticed the divisiveness concerning Senator Sanders on here...what the hell!

No matter which way you try to spin it, or argue about what political party he does affiliate with or doesn't affiliate with...he's raging on for US! For humanity, for healthcare, for education, etc...

FOR ALL OF US.....

Take a step back and realize how he has our backs and best interests at heart....in the bigger picture does it really matter?

Ok, cue the haters....I know you're out there!

[ProfessorPlum]

116. they are indeed

[LakeArenal]

179. You're my girl, Hearstrings.

[BainsBane]

100. If his ideas are what matter

Why do we see thread after thread about HIM and not issues? People could post about education, campaign finance reform, healthcare, any number of issues, and they would find a great deal of agreement. Yet the focus is always about Bernie as a man, not the issues. Bills on important matters with multiple sponsors are presented as his accomplishment. We are told that Bernie is responsible for Trump's failure to pass Obamacare, the efforts of citizens who organized throughout the country wiped away in an effort to promote one man OVER ideas and issues.

And I absolutely disagree that he is fighting to improve my life. In fact, he's made it quite clear that my life is "identity politics," mere "culture wars," and a "distraction" from "really counts."

That people like Bernie isn't the concern. It's the effort to enforce fealty that is disturbing.

[progressoid]

147. Enforce fealty?

Wow, who knew DU posters could be such ruffians.

[BainsBane]

171. That is exactly what it is

It's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

[progressoid]

213. Sure. Just the other day I saw a horde of Bernie Bros threatening an old lady with baseball bats.

[retrowire]

102. Well said.

We have the same goals.

[brooklynite]

103. Who has express concern that people like him?

The concern has generally been that a lot of people (not particularly Democrats) don't.

[askyagerz]

105. Bernie has become the pitbull story of the left

People who have never even interacted with a pitbull are only scared of them because the media says they should be.

[SticksnStones]

110. Good goddess these 300+ reply Bernie posts are TEDIOUS!

[mac56]

127. Oh dear. We've upset you with our tedium.

Will you find it in your magnanimous heart to forgive us?

[SticksnStones]

138. ((Yawn)) I'll survive

Enjoy the merry go round...there's about seven of these threads going now. A lovely way to pass the day.

[mac56]

161. My ignore list is gonna be a jumpin' neighborhood today.

[SticksnStones]

167. Lol.

[LakeArenal]

181. ONe man's tedium is another's expression of opinion and free speech

[MelissaB]

123. I'm tired of the Bernie hate here.

If people insist on Bernie hate threads it looks like they can expect to see some Bernie love threads as well.

[Paladin]

125. Just another Bernie acolyte, ascribing God-like qualities to him.

And ignoring the damage that he and his starry-eyed followers did to the party in 2016.

We can't afford any more of Bernie's "help." Not unless your idea of a good time is a second term for trump.

And the more of these "Yay, Bernie!" threads I see, the more I suspect we're being played, by the opposition. There's nothing they'd like better than another election with a splintered Democratic Party. Wake up, everybody!

[SunSeeker]

195. +1

[JTFrog]

130. All these Bernie fans have no problem with him trashing the party after being given a leadership

role that we all were told was going to be so vital in uniting us against Trump and the KGOP.

Color me completely unimpressed.

[Me.]

139. One Rule For The Party

and another for BS.

[SammyWinstonJack]

131. K & R

[Gothmog]

133. We are not scared of sanders but that does not mean that we trust him

Sanders did nothing in the Georgia 8 race. Why?

[MelissaB]

135. There is not one single politician that I trust completely at this point.

Not one! None of them are perfect, and some of them are corrupt.

[progressoid]

155. Why?

The same question should be asked of dozens of other party leaders. But here on DU there is one go-to guy to slap around when things don't go the right way.

[Gothmog]

231. The only reason that makes sense for Sanders to keep his e-mail list is to preserve ability to run

as a third party candidate. I do not trust sanders and I do not understand the so-called attempted explanations as to why the list needs to be kept secret

[chwaliszewski]

134. I love Bernie!

[DownriverDem]

137. What we have

We have a two party system. Many forgot that last November.

[That Guy 888]

281. And one of the parties has forgotten how to win elections.

They also don't seem to be interested in fighting to get our votes counted, or preventing valid voters from getting their right to vote stolen. Weirdly they have plenty of fight when it comes to hippie-punching.

[William769]

144. Bernie's not the problem.

It's some people trying to make him a God like figure, that's the problem.

[juxtaposed]

159. He did meet the Pope and had angelic bird land on his podium

[Fast Walker 52]

184. it's a problem when he criticizes Dems unreasonably

[Demsrule86]

148. unrec trashing................nt

[Skittles]

152. he does not scare me

I just do not swoon over him

[Mike Nelson]

153. It does look like...

...the Bernie threads are on the rise - and there is too much divisive stuff I'm not afraid and consider him an ally.

[tazkcmo]

156. OOPS!

Wrong thread! I thought this was going to involve Marsha Brady.

[bekkilyn]

157. I think I'm going to wear my new Bernie shirt tomorrow

in honor of all the Bernie-bashers here.

[ehrnst]

322. I hear they make great tee shirts in Russia.

And the Ukraine. Perhaps you might find some great sales there.

[bekkilyn]

326. LOL (nt)

[ehrnst]

335. LOL (nt)

[padah513]

178. We are gonna lose in 2018

Why did you post this? Was it just to provoke a response? If your post was sincere then my apologies, but we can't move forward as a party if we can't stop this bickering about the past and re-litigating the primaries over and over and over every single day! We have to get beyond this childish kiddie mentality and start trying to come together, because 2018 will be here a lot sooner than we think and if we are still divided over this penny ante crap by then, the republicans are gonna clean our clock AGAIN!

[dembotoz]

185. welcome to du and it was posted cause that is what we do

there does seem to be a fight going on for the soul of this party....

unpleasant but needed

[Fast Walker 52]

187. we're not going to lose because of this... it's ok if Dems like Bernie, but Dems should also

understand the problems with Bernie. He's not a god, and he's not a Democrat either.

[ZX86]

240. He may not be a Democrat.

But close enough for government work.

[Fast Walker 52]

242. haha, true enough

[Fast Walker 52]

182. the problem is it's not clear he is a "great asset".

In fact, he could be detrimental to Dems.

At best, he brings in as many people to the party as he turns away. THAT'S the issue.

[Fast Walker 52]

186. Just found and passing this along...

Link to tweet

[That Guy 888]

291. Be sure to send it to Tom Perez

...and the majority of Democratic voters (including me) who have a favorable view of Senator Sanders. It might make me forget that members of the Democratic Party fought as hard to get the words "fracking ban" removed from the Party Platform as Trump did to get condemnations of Putin and Russia removed from the GOP party platform.

[democrank]

188. Bernie and his supporters are bottom-uppers which seems to upset the top-downers

because it messes with the program. Since we're supposed to lash out at Independents and accept only Pure Democrats, I'd like to know the answer to this....

Since Democrats have lost about 1,034 state and federal seats in the last 8-9 years and since the majority of states are red, how on earth are we going to regain control of anything if we're told to hate/dismiss all Trump voters, steer clear of those unpure Independents, never, ever suggest changes we'd like to see in the party structure or platform, and do exactly as the establishment says?

If Bernie and his supporters withdrew their support for Democrats, the party might reach their desired utopian purity, but they'd lose even more real estate.

Let the haters hate. I'm thankful that the country has a few strong, progressive leaders....including Bernie Sanders. As an aside, I deeply appreciate his decades-long, unwavering support of our veterans.

[sheshe2]

239. well

Since we're supposed to lash out at Independents and accept only Pure Democrats

Confused here. Bernie is the one asking for purity...You are progressive as he or fail. According to him all Dems fail.

[NurseJackie]

199. Many thanks! Your words express the feelings of many.

[opiate69]

236. ... awkward...

[NurseJackie]

237. The truth is never awkward.

[stonecutter357]

304. +1000

[ehrnst]

337. Preach! (nt)

[yodermon]

190. Bernie's favorability is increasing as the Dem party's is decreasing.

Democrats would be stupid to distance/alienate Bernie. He is literally the most popular politician in America.





http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/democratic-party-favorable-rating
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/bernie-sanders-favorable-rating

[brettdale]

205. Bernie Bernie Bernie

Put trumpy trumpy trumpy in the white house.

[KPN]

208. Bernie's always been on the side of the working person in America.

He has consistently fought for the average person in the face of immense lobbying by big money interests ... according to folks I know in Vermont, he's been pushing and saying the same things for the past 40 years. I doubt whether most people here at DU ever even heard of him before the last couple of years -- but some of us loyal Democrats have, and have followed him for a couple of decades now.

He is a good man and is out for ALL OF US, not just SOME OF US. So what if he views the past and some current Democratic Party leadership as not fully or adequately committed to that idea -- the idea of standing up and fighting for all of us, all Americans on both the social and economic fronts. I don't disagree with him on that frankly. I'm glad he speaks up.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

212. Fire good!

Bernie bad!

[QC]

215. He made Baby Jesus cry!!!

[madokie]

219. I love the old man

And I admit that he was my first choice and any one who has a problem with that can kiss my old okie ass. well not really but you get the drift

I've had two replies removed because of my saying how I feel about him and I'll not be a bit surprised if this on isn't.

Oh well a couple more and I'll be history around here anyway

Peace to all

Love

[WomenRising2017]

220. Well alrighty then

[youtube]

[/youtube]

[treestar]

222. Because they like him enough to vote third party or not at all

and look what happened.

[estus pirkle]

244. and look what happened.

Yeah....

Most of the people who didn't vote at all took that road because they didn't want to vote for Trump OR Clinton. Sanders was not a player then (except to rally for Clinton). It's up to the candidates to make people WANT to vote for them.

Stop blaming her loss on everything but her campaign. Besides she got the most votes.... just not in the right places. Perhaps her campaign should have paid more attention to WI or something....it's not like the Electoral College is a new thing, y'know.

Sanders is not why she lost.

But the important thing, as this thread is about, is to MOVE ON and concentrate on making the Dems MORE appealing to voters. Something Sanders is concerned about and working on.

[treestar]

263. It is up to people to vote

if they don't want to be involved because they have to be entertained enough, that's on them. It's participatory. You have no voice if you don't vote, and chose that. So stop complaining about who is in the office.

And if you are not smart enough not to throw your vote away then you deserve the Republicans who get to take advantage of that.

[estus pirkle]

275. I hope by "you" you mean "one"

because I certainly voted for the only sane candidate, Hillary.

I have found out that the "powers that be" are worried about my screen name.

Don't you guys do irony? Pirkle was an idiot fundie with a hysterical name. It's just too good. If I had wanted to honor him I would have become "Estus W. Pirkle". Lighten up.

Indeed, I've been lurking since the election and only posted here because this thread seemed to show the myth that Sanders lost the election for Hillary is waning and seems to only stick with a few suborn hardliners. Very refreshing! But if you guys are paranoid about a silly name of a ridiculous character, I'll just go back to lurking.

Y'know, "Enemies everywhere!" is a very right wing thing that makes people vote against their own self interest.

[fleabiscuit]

320. Why the continued bashing even with straight up evidence of election tampering? nt

[CousinIT]

223. Indeed. Bernie is fine w/ me.

I got no problem w/ him.

[WiffenPoof]

227. In Total Agreement Professor Plum

I don't get it.

The primary criticism of Bernie seems to be that he is critical of the Democratic Party. Really? That's it??? Your all up in arms because someone is criticizing the Democratic Party? I don't read where you are being critical of his policies or his positions on important issues. No one seems to be willing to do that! No, they are mad at him because he is critical of our Party. Big deal.

If our Party cannot stand some criticism, then we have more problems then what Bernie chooses to call himself. Geeze...grow a pair.

Those criticizing Bernie are acting as thin-skinned as Trump. You act as if Bernie is a threat to you. Why do you feel threatened?

Here is a man who has not stopped just because the Presidential race was over. He drove on with his message while so-called Democrats are busy playing the safe game. Where has that gotten us??? The Democratic Party has lost its willingness to fight. There can be only one reason why...it must be because they don't believe in what they are selling.

Meanwhile Bernie is out there fighting hard for DEMOCRATIC IDEALS. You may have a different slant on what it means to be a Democrat. Thats fine. But remember that there are others out there fighting for the original tenets of our Party.

I don't give a damn what Bernie calls himself. All I know is that he is fighting for the very things that our Party used to stand for. I applaud him for that and I hope he keeps going. If fighting for Democratic ideals means that he is going to criticize the very Party he supports, then so be it. He is doing it because HE WANTS OUR PARTY TO BE BETTER.

If the Democratic Party continues down the road that they are on, I may have to switch parties myself. I want a fighter. And I don't want to be associated with people that are so afraid of criticism. It's sounds as if YOU are the ones that need to deeply reflect on what it means to be a Democrat.

-P

On Edit: And if you think I'm alone in my views, check the tape! Thousands upon thousands of people turned out to hear Bernie and his message. Far more than anyone could have predicted. If you ask me, this country is ready for Bernie's message. They know that he is fighting for them as he has done throughout his long career. If I were head of the Democratic Party, I would run, not walk towards what Bernie stands for. It is the right direction for our Party and THE PEOPLE KNOW IT.

[nolabels]

265. Thank you for your eloquence

Thin skinned nit-pickers might want to also find a different vocation. The long-standing focused goal oriented people are the ones that make change happen in politics and government and Bernie is one of those. Nobody is perfect but some are better at things than others and they have often learned how to do that through perseverance.

Bernie is a maverick (and has been since he started) in the establishment but many of his political stands are aligned with the majority of the people in and out of the party. What other US Senators can you say that about?

[raven mad]

232. I still want him. BECAUSE of, not in spite of his ideas and ideals.

[zentrum]

233. Love Bernie.

Very grateful to him. Our FDR. With Warren.

[brewens]

235. I watched P.J. O' Rourk on C-SPAN2. He was going off on Bernie's ideas. "What planet

is this going to happen on", that kind of thing. Really? Ideas that have worked for us in the past quite well, no (not free) tuition for college for one. There was none when I went. It wasn't free though. Even as a kid, some of my taxes went to pay for it, as did my parents and everyone else.

Single payer works quite well in a lot of countries on this planet right now.

[0rganism]

238. malkovich, malkovich, malkovich! malkovich malkovich malkovich

[klook]

274. Insanely funny scene in a great movie!

Thanks for the hilarity break - I needed it!

[lunamagica]

243. I'm not scared at all. I don't like him, OK?

Last edited Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:40 PM - Edit history (1)

[pablo_marmol]

252. Very disappointed, luna.

I've always considered you sacred.

[lunamagica]

307. Sacred? No, I'm just magic

[pablo_marmol]

352. *

I was being a wise-ass. (Check your spelling of 'scared' above).

[lunamagica]

353. Ooops

[Gore1FL]

247. It's the stages of grief

I am not sure why it is taking so long to get through denial and anger, but in the end, I believe that's what we are witnessing.

[OnionPatch]

249. I love Bernie.

Last edited Thu Apr 20, 2017, 02:37 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm a lifelong Dem and he stands for the values I believe in. The Bernie bashing I see here is disgusting. I've been a member here for 13 years, this has been my favorite site, but for the first time I'm starting to be turned off by DU.

[Alice11111]

251. Well said. I was a Hillary supporter, but I respect Bernie

a lot. Some people go apeshit anytime someone points out something good the old guy does. The guy just keeps on charging.
I'll probably be alerted on again by the anti Bernie police force, and my appeal will be deleted again.

Laughed at your title. Go for it!

[democratisphere]

253. Yawn. Is it morning yet? Gag order.

[ehrnst]

256. If there's anything that makes people want to "relax"

It's being told that their very founded fears of a party going backwards on civil rights issues are just as silly as fearing someone is going to come "short sheet them when they aren't looking."

Very condescending post, thanks.

[That Guy 888]

283. You can promote economic rights AND civil rights, they aren't mutually exclusive.

If you look at the countries that embraced austerity measures, their citizens suffering has lead to a rise in fascism.

[bekkilyn]

287. In fact, it's crucial to promote both (nt)

[ehrnst]

295. Exactly. But certain "leaders" think that if dems "get hung up on abortion and gay marriage"

politicians that he likes in conservative areas have it harder.

So yes, at times, Sanders has stated that by "being hung up" on civil rights and (women's) health care issues the party "abandons" their conservative brothers in arms, and has said so for years.

http://www.rawstory.com/2013/10/bernie-sanders-tells-ed-schultz-southern-democrats-are-tired-of-being-abandoned-by-the-party/

[That Guy 888]

299. Sorry, not going to take your spin at face value.

"So yes, at times, Sanders has stated that by "being hung up" on civil rights and (women's) health care issues the party "abandons" their conservative brothers in arms, and has said so for years."

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) made the case for a broader progressive push in an interview with MSNBC host Ed Schultz on Friday, saying his recent sojourn into southern states showed him there was still a Democratic base in a region usually known for supporting Republicans.

“I’ve been meeting with unionists, independents, progressive Democrats,” Sanders explained via satellite from Columbia, South Carolina. “And they are tired of being abandoned by the national Democratic party. They want some help, and they believe that with some help they can start winning in these conservative states.”

One cause for concern, Sanders explained to Schultz, was seeing many white, working-class voters in “low-income states” like Georgia, Alabama and South Carolina voting against their own best interest.

“These are guys getting hung up on gay marriage issues,” Sanders told Schultz. “They’re getting hung up on abortion issues. And it is time we started focusing on the economic issues that bring us together: Defending Social Security, defending Medicare, making sure that Medicaid is not cut, that veterans’ programs are not cut.”

By your "logic" you're against Defending Medicare and Social Security. He didn't say abandon abortion issues or gay marriage, just that you need more than those issues to appeal to more voters(like enough voters to start actually winning elections). You can walk AND chew gum; Sanders can be for abortion rights, gay marriage, AND economic issues that help the poor and middle class. The current/recent attempts to win elections in the South have depended on assuming that Frank Luntz & the GOP really understand rural and southern voters and offering watered down GOP bs instead of finding ways to appeal to a broader base that aren't based on God 'n' Guns. Wish you guys fought this hard against Republicans. I guess Hippie-punching is much easier and you don't have to worry about losing the "suburban Republican voters" that the Democratic Party gained in the last election.

[bekkilyn]

308. Yep

Now I'm a southern Democrat (unless I decide to go back to being Unaffiliated) and people *are* too hung up on abortion and homosexuality at the cost of everything else, and the reason is because Democrats allow the GOP (who practically worship these two things like idols) to control the conversation. They keep us arguing over abortion and homosexuality while they continue to inflict all sorts of economic atrocities onto us.

Abortion and gay rights are important issues. I absolutely will *not* vote for an anti-choice or anti-gay rights candidate no matter what letter is next to the name. These are just givens. However, I don't need these two things to be the entirety of the conversations.

What I *do* want is not-for-profit universal health care, a minimum living wage, strong employee rights, big money out of politics, people and not corporations controlling our government, paid family leave, support for PUBLIC (not charters, not vouchers) education, clean drinking water and other environmental protections, school to prison pipeline eliminated, fracking bans, equal pay for equal work, EXPANDING social security, medicare, and medicaid, free public college, immigration, and a bunch of other things in no particular order.

I am a strong feminist and support racial justice, LGBT rights, and social justice in general, but we can't achieve social justice without also having economic justice as the two are very tightly intertwined.

For example, women are the majority of our population making minimum wage, so raising the minimum wage is BOTH an economic issue AND a women's issue.

Lots of us down here in the south are very open to Bernie's policies AND support women's choice and gay marriage.

Just don't try to take our guns away, that's all.

[ehrnst]

313. Intertwined is right. You can't separate social justice from economic justice.

And as we've seen in Europe, universal health coverage and pay equity doesn't make nationalism go away - in fact it can make it even more insidious.

There is still sexism, racism, xenophobia, homophobia, islamophobia among all that socialist equity. We have to work on that now because it's not going to get any better if we don't, no matter how affordable health care is.

[That Guy 888]

329. Actually austerity increases fascism and nationalism

Both have risen with unsustainable austerity and income inequality. If you think universal health coverage and pay equity are problems, you probably would be more comfortable at the club for growth or alec.

[ehrnst]

331. Well, that's certainly not dualistic thinking is it?

I think perhaps you have read so fast that you didn't quite understand.

But here is a male explaining it, so perhaps that will engage your attention:

http://www.vox.com/world/2017/3/13/14698812/bernie-trump-corbyn-left-wing-populism

[That Guy 888]

342. Yeah the "sexist" charge never gets old. Maybe mix it up a little with homophobe or racist next time

But since you don't have an argument, it's the best you can do I suppose.

Hmmm... here's my "mansplaination" New Labour=New Democrats=New Coke; no one's buying what their selling. The Blair-wing of Labour and the DLC-wing of the Democratic Party don't want to change, they're comfortable and don't care if middle class and poor aren't; solution? Why equate Bernie Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn to Trump!!!! All populists are exactly the same. Now there's no need to change disastrous economic policies that increase wealth inequality, just insult the voters until they start voting for your candidates again no matter how big a train wreck your campaign is or how little benefit they see from your policies.

It's pure genius

[ehrnst]

343. Why wait til you're 80 to sit drinking in an airport bar at 2:00 am to rant?

Carpe Diem, I say!

[ehrnst]

312. Some straw men there...

If you have to misrepresent what the argument is....

[That Guy 888]

318. No support for your argument

...so I have no idea what you're talking about.

[ehrnst]

321. Clearly you haven't from the start. (nt)

[That Guy 888]

323. Ahh yes, the passive-aggressive one sentence uninformative response.

Perhaps you should learn to communicate better. The "You know what you did" form of argument is best left to the angry spouse on bad sitcoms.

[ehrnst]

324. You got me. That mansplaining put me in my place.

[That Guy 888]

325. LOL "mansplaining"

Bingo! Bingo! Now if you'll excuse me, I have to turn in my card and get my prize.

[ehrnst]

333. I think that going for a walk and

marking a few bushes might help with the alpha stuff.

[Nitram]

258. I wonder why we're still re-fighting the primary?

[alarimer]

259. He says almost exactly the same things as Warren.

Yet his opinion is bashing and hers is not? (Neither are actually and both are needed).

The Democratic Party has lost 1000 seats in state legislatures, numerous governorships, both houses of Congress. And yet criticism is BAD????

[mvd]

261. Finally a Bernie thread I feel safe replying to

Sometimes he has hard truths, but we need to hear them. I also have no problem with him being an Independent. Many voters are. He has already helped inspire more Democrats on the left to run for office. I remain a Democrat because I feel we need to counter the Third Way thinking in the party. And a third party just isn't feasible right now. Like it or not, our two party system is still entrenched. Plus, I have been a registered Democrat for 22 years now and considered myself one before I could vote.

[bekkilyn]

284. By remaining Independent

he encourages more who are "people over party" types to vote for Democratic candidates. He really doesn't have to please the people who are mad about him not being registered Democrat because they are already going to vote Democratic no matter what. It's everyone else that needs his outreach the most, the people who are most suspicious of partisan politics and Democrats in general. People who would not give the time of day to a Democrat will often listen to Bernie.

[mvd]

288. Good point

I wish there were more Bernies in the party, but what you say is true.

[bekkilyn]

309. Hopefully we can grow to having many, many Bernies! (nt)

[forjusticethunders]

262. Why does Bernie's support decrease the more oppressed the group?

Basically the browner you are, the less likely you are to support Bernie. Given PoC suffer from the most historic oppression (like really, when we talk about Les Damnes de la Terra, we are talking foremost about people of color), why can't Bernie supporters even talk about why this is so? Every answer they give seems to reek of condescension and they just ignore us when we respond to that.

I'll be honest though. I don't think Bernie is actually a progressive, let alone a "socialist".

[riderinthestorm]

266. Actually...

http://thepoliticalorder.com/new-harvard-study-just-shattered-biggest-myth-bernie-supporters/

[klook]

279. Inconvenient!

Thanks for the dose of truth to combat truthiness.

[That Guy 888]

290. Thanks for posting that link!

Concluding two paragraphs from http://thepoliticalorder.com/new-harvard-study-just-shattered-biggest-myth-bernie-supporters/

...However, a new survey conducted by Harvard University and The Harris Poll disproves all of those comments about the Sanders coalition with hard numbers. According to the survey results, which were conducted among 2,027 registered voters between April 14 and April 17, 2017, Sanders is actually more popular among women, African Americans, Hispanics, and Asian Americans than white people and men.

According to the survey, 55 percent of men and 52 percent of whites approve of Bernie Sanders. However, Sanders has the support of 73 percent of African Americans, 68 percent of Hispanics, 62 percent of Asian Americans, and 58 percent of women. And even though Sanders identifies as independent rather than Democratic, 80 percent of Democrats approve of him.

[riderinthestorm]

292. Yup, the "Bernie bro so white" propaganda can't die soon enough nt

[ehrnst]

348. Actually, now that he's not running for president...

But that wasn't the case during the primaries, clearly.

https://www.thenation.com/article/african-american-voters-have-a-good-reason-to-support-hillary-clinton/

However, now that he's been given the task of being charge of Democratic outreach, he has a lot of opportunity to build his brand, without the need to articulate national policy. Maybe too much opportunity - he's down 12% from last September in approval ratings among his constituents. (Leahy is up 6%) https://morningconsult.com/senate-rankings-april-2017/

Hillary had a 69% approval rating when she left office as Sec of State.

[disillusioned73]

264. Surprised to see this @ the top..

Sanders, the lefts energizer bunny - still going.....

[nini]

268. This might help you understand why not everyone thinks like you

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2017/4/18/1654234/-Women-are-dragging-Tom-Perez-and-Bernie-Sanders-on-Twitter-and-I

[FlaGranny]

282. I have a suspicion

that Russian bots are feeding all this negativity toward a good man and dissing him because he is not a member of the party. Heaven forbid he go around the country and try to spread progressive ideas - Russia does not like that. This old woman voted for him in the primary and for Hillary (grudgingly) for president. His ideals are mine 95% of the time, which is more than I could say for any other candidate ever. Sure, he's a grumpy old man, has a strong NY accent, is nothing to look at, but all these threads bashing him make me want to leave this site forever, after 16 years. Stop it and concentrate on what's important - getting rid of Trump. TRUMP IS NOT BERNIE'S FAULT. PERIOD!

[bekkilyn]

286. I've been thinking this very same thing (nt)

[nini]

297. Yes.. blame the Russians

However, the points made are very valid.

AND it's not his ideas - he's preaching to the liberal choir. However, he does not reach out to people of color AND he has indeed tried to take credit for the women's work.

[bekkilyn]

310. Myth and propaganda (nt)

[bekkilyn]

285. Not this woman

(who is indeed wearing her new Bernie shirt out and about today)

There is no evidence that supports the idea that Bernie does not support women and PoC. He's been a strong supporter of both throughout his political career. A lot of women and PoC would also greatly benefit from his economic policies too concerning health care, paid family leave, higher minimum wage, etc., so I'm baffled as to why people are fighting against these things.

Who cares what letter he puts next to his name when his values are currently more Democratic than a lot of registered Democrats.

Not to mention it's more crucial to reach "people over party" types than the people who are already going vote Democratic no matter what.

[nini]

298. *yawn*

Enjoy your version of reality.

[bekkilyn]

311. Thanks, it's a great reality to be in. You're welcome to join me anytime. :) (nt)

[ehrnst]

300. There is plenty of evidence.

Saying that Democrats would "be flexible" on candidates who were not so anti-gun and pro-choice, very recently.

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a9203970/democrats-abortion-economic-justice/

And for years now.

http://www.rawstory.com/2013/10/bernie-sanders-tells-ed-schultz-southern-democrats-are-tired-of-being-abandoned-by-the-party/

He says abortion is a "social issue," (actually a public health issue, thank you) which he dismisses as being less important than economic issues, and dismisses issues of LGBTQs, POC and new Americans as being "identity politics" which detract from his main issues - as if race and orientation don't affect one's economics.

Why do you think that doesn't appeal at all to the vast majority of southern African Americans?

Sanders has been reelected by a tiny overwhelmingly homegenous, white, lefty, rural population, where people of color don't have it so good. It's natural that he would focus on those issues, and those that he himself experienced - as a white, straight, working class male.

He has stated that if we "move right" on those "social issues" then the rust belt will elect politicians with neosocialist economic policies, and once our economy is magically legislated by the Bernie followers, then all those other issues will "right themselves."

Apparently when he took that trip to Rome, he didn't bother to take a look at Europe, where their socialist policies and universal health care have not in any way shape or form solved sexism, racism, nationalism and Xenophobia.

If he thinks that democratic candidates moving more anti-abortion and pro-gun will make a bunch of goverment-hating white men in the midwest suddenly start to elect neosocialists, he is in for a huge suprise.

But the rest of us knew that already.

http://www.salon.com/2015/09/16/bernie_sanders_inequality_blind_spot_why_social_issues_and_economic_justice_cant_be_siloed/

[bekkilyn]

314. The people typically promoting this "flexibility"

when it comes to social justice issues aren't progressives like Bernie. While Bernie did say a while back that he was willing to work with 45 on certain economic issues such as trade deals IF there was common ground, he also said that there were some issues that could NEVER be compromised such as racial justice, gay rights, women's rights, etc.

His detractors tended to misunderstand what he said and/or twist his words around to fit their "Bernie is a sexist" false agenda.

Most of the people claiming that Democrats need to water down issues and move even *more* right by promoting anti-choice candidates in the south are the center-right faction of the party, because they certainly aren't progressives (like Bernie) who promote both social and economic justice with NO compromise on various social and civil rights issues. Bernie said it himself over and over in numerous speeches when discussing these topics.

I do personally support 2nd amendment rights and have voted against some Democrats in the past who were too "ban happy" (though recently the GOP is just so whacko that I can't even do that anymore), and I know a lot of Republicans who are pro-choice and support gay marriage, but who refuse to vote for Democrats ever solely because of 2nd amendment rights, so when it comes to this particular issue, flexibility here may be a very good point, particularly since it is not a social/economic justice issue that would throw any disenfranchised groups under the bus.

Being anti-choice would be a human rights violation though, so there's really no compromise or flexibility there.

[JustAnotherGen]

289. To each their own n/t

[Sunlei]

293. Always Love you BOTH Bernie and Hillary!

[ehrnst]

296. Democrats! Democrats, democrats democrats democrats democrats democrats. Democrats: Dem Dems

Why are some people so afraid of progressive organizations like the Democratic Party?

It really seems to scare people. People here.

It's a political party, guys. One progressive old party. One old party who fights for some rights even for people that aren't working class white straight men from the government. Who fights trickle down economics. Who likes the social safety net.

It's going to be ok - The DNC isn't going to come short sheet your beds, or emasculate you when you aren't looking.

The Democrats are a great asset, ally, and friend to the best parts of the Progessive policies.

Enjoy being a Democrat. We're fighting to make your lives better, too. Even if you think that economic and justice issues that are specific to people of color or LGBTQs are just "identity politics" and a "social issue."

You can smear the party all you want, but it is their actual history of ACCOMPLISHMENTS among the large group of loosely connected coalitions that are popular, and you can't change that by trying to throw out weird accusations of the DNC "roughing him up a the convention" or with purity tests that make what you think about an amendment he tacked onto a bill "big Pharma" more relevant to "progressive" cred than one's support of a woman's access to contraception and abortion.

Relax already.

[NCTraveler]

303. Kick

[Starry Messenger]

305. He and his supporters don't scare me.

I just think a lot of them are hypocritical assholes.

[That Guy 888]

330. I don't think Bernie Sanders supporters are trying to scare you.

I just think a lot of them are hypocritical assholes.

There's a lot of that going around.

[Starry Messenger]

332. Try reading the OP next time. That's what I was responding to.

[That Guy 888]

345. I know.

Believe it or not some Democratic voters that are Sanders supporters think that some Democrats are hypocritical assholes.

As in: We want your votes, not your input. We think that the Water Protectors should be allowed to respectfully protest (in a free speech cage zone) and the Dakota access workers should be allowed to build the pipeline that's going to leak into the water supply that it goes under. Starting a war without an endgame in Syria is a judicious use of American blood and money - universal healthcare and free or affordable college for all is most definitely not. Addressing income inequality is class warfare, defending too big to fail banks and pay day lenders is not. etc. etc.

[Starry Messenger]

346. Or--and you might not believe this--many of us support the right side of those issues, as I do.

But don't really care for the Certain Senator that has caused a group of people to need to press his name like violets in the scrapbook of their hearts, because we don't think he plays a positive role in public life.

And find that needing people to LOVE SANDERS in order to be deemed a supporter of those issues is immensely short-sighted and self-defeating.

[That Guy 888]

347. I'm making no claim as to who's right or wrong

Just that there is contention in our party. Beating up on Senator Sanders (who is campaigning with Tom Perez) seems as counter-productive to party unity as much as Hillary bashing is. It does seem that the former is more tolerated on this site than the latter.

[lsewpershad]

306. The Democratic party

Is being destroyed by the establishment democrats who are owned by corporations and their donations.... Don't blame Bernie who is a true democrat not a party dem.

[fleabiscuit]

327. He was just asked the other day on TV if he was a Democrat. He said he was an independent. nt.

[Tiggeroshii]

354. :D