The Uncurious, Continuing, Stubborn Refusal to Grasp Bernie Sanders

[babylonsister]

Since this got 83 recommendations, equal time, friends.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028953867
WAPO: Bernie Sanders's strange behavior




The Uncurious, Continuing, Stubborn Refusal to Grasp Bernie Sanders
The Democratic establishment and those in the media who support them keep making the same mistakes on Sanders and his movement.

By Lorie Shaull from Washington, United States [CC BY-SA 2.0 (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0)], via Wikimedia Commons
By Liam Miller / filmsforaction.org / Apr 20, 2017


Aaron Blake of the Washington Post published a desultory piece this morning (4/20) about Bernie Sanders’ supposed “curious” behavior. He mentioned how strange he found it that Sanders didn’t endorse Ossoff for the Georgia special election; that Sanders still didn’t call himself a Democrat; and that he had the audacity to reiterate the notion that Trump didn’t win the election, but rather the Democrats lost. He even criticized Bernie because he (gasp!) “differed” from DNC chair Perez on some points.

Blake’s article could be summed up as follows: why isn’t Bernie doing and saying what the establishment wants?

It is not curious, but it is bemusing, that Blake and other establishment pundits and politicians still somehow expect Bernie to fall in line, and still don’t get why he won’t. The most telling moment might be Blake’s take on Bernie saying he didn’t endorse Ossoff because he didn’t know much about him. Blake says it’s odd, because Democrats have invested so much “money and blood, sweat and tears” in Ossoff.

As if Democratic money should equate to Bernie’s knowlege.

Blake’s piece collapses once you take Bernie at his word: that he didn’t endorse Ossoff, because he doesn’t know much about him. That’s just Bernie acting with integrity, like he always does. All of Bernie’s other supposed ‘curious’ behavior is similarly un-curious once you apply that understanding – his daring to differ with Perez, maintaining his Independent status, and continuing to voice his (widely shared) view that the Democratic Party screwed up the election. In fact, Blake’s piece could be seen to illustrate why Bernie remains an independent: he is not willing to endorse every candidate or idea that the establishment holds up, no matter how much they try to bully him. Funny thing; that’s why he had the audacity to run for President in the first place. Why would anyone suppose he’d change now?

What is in fact curious is Blake’s failure to mention the special congressional election in Kansas, where a candidate that Bernie endorsed went essentially unsupported by the Democratic establishment. Trump had named the former occupant of the seat, Mike Pompeo, to head the CIA; Pompeo had won by 31 points in November. James Thompson, the Democratic candidate, ended up losing the special election by only 7 points – prompting a new round of ‘what might have been’ had the establishment given him some real backing. But the reality seems to be that establishment Democrats don’t want to support truly progressive candidates, who might upset the status quo. Pundits like Blake are doing the party’s work for them. Howard Dean’s recent absurd savaging of Tulsi Gabbard is more of the same. It’s their party, and we’ll all cry so they can keep it that way.

more...

http://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/the-establishments-uncurious-continuing-stuboorn-refusal-to-grasp-bernie-sanders/

[Tarheel_Dem]

1. So when BS' candidates lose, it's not BS' fault, but "the establishment" DNC? Got it.

SSDD.

[Progressive dog]

155. Well, it has to be "the establishment"'s fault

because bad things are always due to "the establishment". They're just too establismentish.

[lewebley3]

171. The Establishment is only thing protecting us from Trump: Sanders his helping the GOP

[Eyeball_Kid]

176. Nonsense.

[LOL Lib]

2. Aw Jezz

[img][/img]

[PdxSean]

4. Couldn't've said it better myself.

[Lisa0825]

9. My sentiments exactly.

[JTFrog]

22. +1 nt

[LakeArenal]

73. LOL is right... WARNING: DON'T READ ANYMORE

Bernie fan, not Bernie Fan, Meh... Whatever. The rest of this is just the same stuff. Yes he is .. No he isn't.. Yeah, but.. No, then..

Stop..

[LOL Lib]

147. Bernie threads...

Beating a dead horse...it's also the definition of insanity. Lol post another Bernie thread and insist that the results will be different than the previous 1000 Bernie threads.

[Progressive dog]

174. That guy looks like I feel

about that shit.

[JNelson6563]

3. So much stupid, meaningless crap.

But as long as we squabble over shit like this we ain't fightin' the reich-wingers, eh?

Brilliant!

[sharedvalues]

161. They fear our unity. That's why Russ trolls were doing this in 2016

[Progressive dog]

175. It is brilliant if you don't want

us to fight Putin and his puppets.

[mikehiggins]

5. Another thing folks don't get (especially here on DU) is that Sanders doesn't care what you think.

There is no point to debating it. No one is going to listen, least of all Sanders. He has a clear idea about what he wants and how he intends to go about getting it. Making DUers happy isn't on his radar.

[athena]

7. It's great when a politician doesn't care what you think, isn't it?

[WinkyDink]

32. He cared very much, for he sought to persuade them.

[Rural_Progressive]

70. Which is precisely what Bernie tries to do

He has a very clear idea of the base causes of inequality in this country. He is focused on those causes. He is attempting to "persuade" people as to the causes and what actions need to be taken to rectify the situation. Bernie and one of my favorite teachers, Matthew Fox, would be in complete agreement on this statement.

Anything that is not just is not sustainable, the only way for anything to become sustainable is for there to be justice (in all systems)

Bernie is about the long view, he's looking for our society to become sustainable for our kids and grandkids. Only going to happen if it becomes just.

If people are on board with that vision, he's looking for all the support he can find. If they're not on board with that he's not going to shed any tears or waste any time. There just isn't any time to waste. If they don't get it by now, chances are really good they're never going to until everything goes sideways.

[KPN]

136. Good summation.

[LiberalLovinLug]

148. +1000

[dchill]

163. +1000

[Plucketeer]

168. + 1000!

Good to see I'm not alone.

[SMC22307]

186. Good post. (n/t)

[athena]

84. MLK was not a politician. He was an activist.

MLK never held any kind of political office. A politician, in case you were unaware, is supposed to be responsible to his/her constituents. A politician is supposed to represent his/her constituents, not himself/herself.

Politics is the art of the possible. The goal is not to make a point, nor to gather admirers. The goal is to get things done.

[Cha]

87. BS' divisive insulting Attacks on The Democratic Party aren't

doing anybody any good.. It's Divisive, Wrong, and Counter Productive.

BS' own Press Sec, Symone Sanders said..

Symone Sanders: "In retrospect, she said, Maybe Bernie Sanders isnt the guy for the unity tour.

Why Bernie Sanders’s Unity Tour Failed

snip//

The independent senator hit the road with Democratic national chairman Tom Perez—and highlighted everything that's tearing the party apart.

https://newrepublic.com/article/142152/bernie-sanderss-unity-tour-failed

[Plucketeer]

167. Yeah - doncha just HATE IT

When truths shatter faiths? OR..... maybe we ARE the center of the solar system! Fact is, that view was decreed from on high. HOW COULD we ever have challenged it? Damned heretics!

[Chevy]

112. Ahhh so Bernie is MLK now?

Didn't someone say that about the orange Turnip recently.

[obamanut2012]

120. Just stop comparing Sanders with MLK Jr. now

[babylonsister]

8. Say what you mean, mean what you say. What a concept. nt

[Vesper]

48. It would be nice if the followed through on what he said last year.

Though I guess he was serious about not being rigid about choice and women's basic human rights when he endorsed a man who sough via sponsorship of bills to violate both basic principles Democrats hold.

[babylonsister]

65. Really?

What are you talking about? Link? Thanks. PS he was loved last year, this year, not so much.

[Vesper]

117. Yes, really.

He made a lot of promises last year, and he was not as loved as some would like to believe.

Since you are specifically asking about last year, I will remind you that promises were made about his future associations with the party, and of releasing documents that all presidential candidates submit. These were not kept.

That is not an attack, or rehashing of anything, I include this statement for those who are apparently baiting people into making statements that might violate the TOS, which is not my intent here.

People are extremely upset that it seems like rules do not apply to some, while they always seem to be applied to others, even they need to lie outright to make the attacks work.

If you say you are going to do something, you should do it, else, you earn the title of liar. Remember how Trump insisted he would release his tax returns, but niw he claims since he won, it doesn't matter? Pure poppycock, losing does not absolve one of similar promises made either.

We need honesty, integrity and transparency, we do not need people accusing us of rank hypocrisy due to the unequal application of standards, and we are being daunted by our enemies with the rank hypocrisy of our Independent friend.

[NCTraveler]

12. "Sanders doesn't care what you think."

Boom. Career politician looking toward his next election. Well said. He doesn't care what we think. It's not a populist movement. It's catering to a certain segment day after day.

[ananda]

13. Agree

Sanders is his own man and always speaks for people
Not corporations.

[Chevy]

113. Ben and Jerrys ring a bell? N/T

[JCanete]

115. does sanders speak for Ben and Jerry's? Is he trying to lift taxes on Ice Cream job makers? nt

[Darkhawk32]

164. Straw meet man.

[LanternWaste]

196. Straw Man: valid counter-examples which don't validate our biases...

You do know a straw man isn't valid counter-example to a previous premise which don't validate our biases, yes?

I don't think you know what the word *really* means, cupcake. Just using it in a sentence doesn't exemplify knowledge.

[Cha]

15. And, it fucking shows when BS insults the Democratic

Party with divisive and wrong accusations like this..

Accusing the Democratic Party of being.. "feeble" and "can't fight back"on Rachel's Show and "..the Democratic Party of the elite" in Boston with Senator Warren..

When ssarandon is the Elitist..

Who suckered the LOW INFORMATION voters with LIES like these..

"The prominent Sanders backer also predicted that a Hillary Clinton indictment was "inevitable"

Susan Sarandon: Hillary Clinton more dangerous than Donald Trump

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/03/susan_sarandon_hillary_clinton_more_dangerous_than_donald_trump/

poor ssarandon "had to change her phone number.." while the rest of the country that isn't so well off have to worry about this among other trumpshite..

Link to tweet

..he insults Dems Who are out there on the Front Lines Fighting for our Very Lives..

He's Wrong and Divisive.. only helping trump, the gop, and the m$m.

Dems have our BACKs and I have theirs.

Truth.. Our Dems ARE Fighting for us..

Democratic Congressman Calls for 'Total and Complete Shutdown' of Trump Agenda in Congress

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028837680

Maxine Waters? Tweets: Meet Donald Trump's Kremlin Klan

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028839413

Top Dem calls for investigation into House Intelligence chairman

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141736108

Schumer: Democrats will filibuster Gorsuch nomination

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141736192

Al Franken: What was Merrick Garland about?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028836324

Woah. Rep Schiff: New evidence of Trump/Russia collusion "would merit a grand jury investigation"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028840444

Thanks to Franken and Klobuchar for helping Dems understand why Gorsuch must be filibustered

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028838216

[Me.]

37. Powerful

Don't stop

[Cha]

81. Mahalo Me.

[NCTraveler]

42. Didn't he say Clinton was unfit to be President? Nt

[Vesper]

55. He said she was unqualified.

And then fleshed it out with some things he forgot applied to himself as well.

I guess everyone forgot that only Barbara Lee is pure on the Authorization for Use of Military Force vote. Bernie and Hillary both voted to let the executive branch freely bomb wherever al queda and now ISIS operate, which are broader war powers.

But it seems those hypocritical double standards condemn one and deify the other, seems like a familiar leitmotif here. Straight out of the Republican playbook.

[Tarheel_Dem]

53. He's still running around talking about "the elites". Most divisive shit I've heard from an "ally".

[Cha]

67. BS is still talking about the "Elites"? When Susan Sarandon & Stein

are the only Fucking Elites I know.

Susan Sarandon: Hillary Clinton more dangerous than Donald Trump

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/03/susan_sarandon_hillary_clinton_more_dangerous_than_donald_trump/

3rd party.. suckering the LOW INFORMATION voters with LIES like these..

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

"The prominent Sanders backer also predicted that a Hillary Clinton indictment was "inevitable"



poor ssarandon "had to change her phone number.." while the rest of the country that isn't so well off have to worry about this among other trumpshite..

Link to tweet

Tarheel!

[Bluepinky]

154. You always post the same stupid shit.

Bernie was one of the few Senators who had the courage and integrity to vote against the Iraq invasion. Most of the Democratic Senators weren't so smart. I want someone with integrity leading our country, not someone whose vote depends on funding. I will never forget about the invasion of Iraq, the worst foreign affairs blunder in my lifetime.

[JudyM]

160. +1.

[SMC22307]

185. God yes. Iraq is now a mere blip...

for anti-Iraq War DU.

[NBachers]

16. That's tellin' 'em, Mike!

[Cha]

18. lol..

[NastyRiffraff]

33. We KNOW he doesn't care

what anyone thinks, DU or otherwise. Even his former campaign press secretary implied the same thing when speaking of the "unity tour":

Symone Sanders, who was Sanders’s campaign press secretary (no relation), said her former boss does want to bring Democrats together, but acknowledged that his focus is to push progressive policies. “He told all y’all,” she said. “He’s not a Democrat. He’s an independent who cares about the issues.” Moreover, Sanders has no patience for the tightly scripted messaging that might have benefited a tour as delicate as this one. “Nobody puts baby in the corner,” she joked, “and nobody tells Bernie Sanders what to do.”

In retrospect, she said, “Maybe Bernie Sanders isn’t the guy for the unity tour.”

New Republic

Someone who listens to no one scares me. Reminds me of someone else.

[Me.]

41. Maybe Bernie Sanders isnt the guy for the unity tour.

Truer words.....

[Demsrule86]

192. NO unity tour...waste of time and money.

Let's just get on with winning. Trump's unfavorable are the gift that keeps on giving. The unity tour has been a waste of time...people are foaming at the mouth over the abortion issue...and rightfully so...also why waste money on a mayoral candidate? We have way more important races in the coming elections. It seems Perez has realized what is happening and will be at an Ossoff rally in Georgia and not in Nebraska. Good for him.

[Cha]

83. Symone Sanders: "In retrospect, she said, Maybe Bernie Sanders isnt the guy for the unity tour.

Symone Gets it! I like her!

Thank you, Riff!

Why Bernie Sanders’s Unity Tour Failed

snip//

The independent senator hit the road with Democratic national chairman Tom Perez—and highlighted everything that's tearing the party apart.

https://newrepublic.com/article/142152/bernie-sanderss-unity-tour-failed

The next Unity Tour.. have People there who Want to Unify!

[lunamagica]

106. "Sanders doesn't care what you think." Oh, my, what a ringing endorsement! That's exactly what

I want in representative or candidate, that s/he doesn't care what I think!

It would be a perfect slogan for him. Just imagine, buttons, thirsts, yard signs, bumper stickers saying "Vote for Sanders. He doesn't care what you think".

BTW, I agree with you that Sanders doesn't care what anyone thinks. I won't elaborate because I don't want anymore hides

[Jolly Sapper]

135. And that is a good thing.

If a candidate says what they mean, openly and honestly. We as voters get to decide if that politician who we want representing us. There shouldn't be any worry that later on down the line, after the election is over, the politician will do the opposite.

Bernie Sanders shouldn't be trying to make anybody happy, he should run on what he believes and push for policies/causes that he feels will best support his beliefs. If a voter doesn't agree, then the voter looks for another choice of candidate to vote for.

[LiberalLovinLug]

149. Shhhhhhhhh

You are being way too logical for a few in here that have to twist every statement Bernie makes to fit into their tired pointless hate fest.

[cwydro]

6. This is what makes du suck.

I wish both sides would just stop.

So tiresome. Not to mention boring as hell.

[Leith]

21. Me, Too

I just voted to allow a post on a jury - mainly because it simply repeated part of the post it was replying to (which is still there, too).

Why can't people accept that people can like both Sanders and Clinton AND that people sometimes don't express their thoughts in exactly the way the listener wants them to. Or that we may not agree 100% with what one person or another says or gives an opinion that the listener/reader doesn't want to face.

I still think that this is mostly the work of outside trolls and real people are letting themselves get worked up over it. There are much much bigger problems facing us and it's petty beyond reason to let oneself get all worked up over little words spoken months ago.

[druidity33]

28. Hear here! Like dogs and their pull toy... nt.

[NCTraveler]

10. Cliff notes: Ego nt

[grossproffit]

122. +1

[pnwmom]

11. Bernie should have simply replied that he hadn't followed Ossoff's race.

And not said that stupid thing about not knowing whether Ossoff was a progressive; only knowing that he was a Democrat, but not all Democrats are progressive.

There's not a single Democrat in Congress who isn't MORE progressive than ANY Republican. This isn't the 60's or 70's. Bernie needs to get his head out of that era. These days, any Democrat is more progressive, and worth supporting over any Republican.

[George II]

47. The thing is he SHOULD have been following Ossoff's campaign, and he SHOULD have known...

...Ossoff's positions on the issues.

He wants to be a "leader" of the Democratic Party and change the party to his liking, but he didn't bother learning anything about Ossoff in that very important election? It's not like it's November in an even-numbered year, when all 438 House seats and 1/3 of Senate seats were up for election. There was ONE Congressional election this week. Not too difficult to be informed about it and the positions of the candidates.

And yet just days later he's in Nebraska campaigning for a candidate in a relatively minor mayoral election, and on top of that one who has been openly anti-choice to the degree that he sponsored legislation as a State Senator that would discourage a woman's choice.

[pnwmom]

51. I agree. But at the very least, he shouldn't have been so dismissive. n/t

[MontanaMama]

76. Yes. This.

Thank you George II. I am not letting this NE thing slide. Something is up. Choice is always a deal breaker in my book.

[BamaRefugee]

162. YES. THIS.

[NurseJackie]

62. Simple. How logical!

[Cha]

95. Yeah, BS didn't follow the exciting race in Georgia with

the Progressive Dem, Jon Ossoff, taking on the repubs down there for Tom Price's seat.

I guess the Director of Outreach was too busy.

[Cha]

14. OH JHC.. Why isn't BS Grasping that the Democratic

party is NOT "Feeble" and CAN "can't fight back" AND Is NOT the "The Democratic Party of the Elite"

He's Divisive and Wrong...

Accusing the Democratic Party of being.. "feeble" and "can't fight back"on Rachel's Show and "..the Democratic Party of the elite" in Boston with Senator Warren..

When ssarandon is the Elitist..

Who suckered the LOW INFORMATION voters with LIES like these..

"The prominent Sanders backer also predicted that a Hillary Clinton indictment was "inevitable"

Susan Sarandon: Hillary Clinton more dangerous than Donald Trump

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/03/susan_sarandon_hillary_clinton_more_dangerous_than_donald_trump/

poor ssarandon "had to change her phone number.." while the rest of the country that isn't so well off have to worry about this among other trumpshite..

Link to tweet

..he insults Dems Who are out there on the Front Lines Fighting for our Very Lives..

He's Wrong and Divisive.. only helping trump, the gop, and the m$m.

Dems have our BACKs and I have theirs.

Truth.. Our Dems ARE Fighting for us..

Democratic Congressman Calls for 'Total and Complete Shutdown' of Trump Agenda in Congress

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028837680

Maxine Waters? Tweets: Meet Donald Trump's Kremlin Klan

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028839413

Top Dem calls for investigation into House Intelligence chairman

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141736108

Schumer: Democrats will filibuster Gorsuch nomination

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141736192

Al Franken: What was Merrick Garland about?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028836324

Woah. Rep Schiff: New evidence of Trump/Russia collusion "would merit a grand jury investigation"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028840444

Thanks to Franken and Klobuchar for helping Dems understand why Gorsuch must be filibustered

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028838216

Why can't BS Grasp this..

Sanders Wrong on Voter Turnout

snip//

Sanders, April 16: So many of our people are giving up on the political process. It is very frightening. In the last presidential election, when Trump won, we had the lowest voter turnout over — in 20 years. And in the previous two years before that, in the midterm election, we had the lowest voter turnout in 70 years.

Sen. Bernie Sanders wrongly claimed that voter turnout in 2016 was “the lowest … in 20 years.” In fact, turnout was higher than it was in 2012.

The overall turnout was 60.2 percent in 2016, up from 58.6 percent four years earlier. In addition, the percentage of eligible voters casting ballots for president in 2016 was 59.3 percent — the third highest in the last 44 years. Only 2008 and 2004 were higher.

More..
http://www.factcheck.org/2017/04/sanders-wrong-voter-turnout/

And, WHY couldn't BS, the Director of Outreach, Grasp This. I call that "Uncurious"

Link to tweet

Says he "isn't prepared to back Dems just because of party labels".. but he didn't bother to get to knowJon Ossoff, who is Pro-Choice, and, is running for an important Congressional seat.. Tom Price's in Georgia!

"Jon Ossoff on the issues, presented in a way Bernie Sanders can understand"

snip//

Women’s Heath & Planned Parenthood”

Ossoff is an unapologetic supporter of the concept of women being able to make their own decisions regarding reproductive health care, and Ossoff is a strong supporter of Planned Parenthood.

What a concept for a "progressive"!!!

snip//

National Security”

•Ossoff has promised to “oppose unnecessary military intervention overseas and...only support the use of force where US national security is at stake”
•Ossoff opposes the use of torture
•Ossoff has called for an investigation into "Russian interference in American politics”
•Ossoff referred to the Iraq War as “reckless”

Much More.. https://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/04/19/1654449/-Jon-Ossoff-on-the-issues-presented-in-a-way-Bernie-Sanders-can-understan

Jon Ossoff took the high road in Georgia.. I hope he wins so badly.. Nancy Pelosi was there for him as was Samuel L Jackson.. Hollywood came out for him! Alyssa Milano and Christopher Gorham got the Vote out!

We'll never know if a few positive words instead of dismissal could have made the difference from the "most popular politician in America".

Not sure why BS wouldn't want to have gotten to know Jon Ossoff who would have immediately gone to Congress if he had won 50% and we would have had one more Dem to fight the Fascistrumps.

[babylonsister]

43. Whoa. I get it. You don't like him and now have a library

of things you don't like.

I liked him better than Hillary. So sue me. But I did of course vote for her.

[Cha]

66. Don't try to make this about me.. this is about BS insulting the

Democratic Party and being Divisive.. he gets it wrong.

He isn't helping ... and with the Fucking Fascistrump Regime in Power that is Counter-Productive.

[babylonsister]

68. You didn't read the article, did you. Whatever, we can agree to disagree,

because I do.

[Cha]

69. Like I said.. don't try to make this about me. BS

needs to get Curious on his FACTS regarding The Democratic Party. They can be quite Stubborn things.

He's not helping with his Divisive insults.

[Cha]

102. So have Dems.. BS doesn't need to Insult the Democratic Party..

It's Divisive and Wrong.

[Cha]

107. You learn the difference...BS insulting the Democratic Party isn't helping

Accusing the Democratic Party of being.. "feeble" and "can't fight back"on Rachel's Show and "..the Democratic Party of the elite" in Boston with Senator Warren..

When ssarandon is the Elitist..

Who suckered the LOW INFORMATION voters with LIES like these..

"The prominent Sanders backer also predicted that a Hillary Clinton indictment was "inevitable"

Susan Sarandon: Hillary Clinton more dangerous than Donald Trump

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/03/susan_sarandon_hillary_clinton_more_dangerous_than_donald_trump/

poor ssarandon "had to change her phone number.." while the rest of the country that isn't so well off have to worry about this among other trumpshite..

Link to tweet

..he insults Dems Who are out there on the Front Lines Fighting for our Very Lives..

He's Wrong and Divisive.. only helping trump, the gop, and the m$m.

Dems have our BACKs and I have theirs.

Truth.. Our Dems ARE Fighting for us..

Democratic Congressman Calls for 'Total and Complete Shutdown' of Trump Agenda in Congress

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028837680

Maxine Waters? Tweets: Meet Donald Trump's Kremlin Klan

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028839413

Top Dem calls for investigation into House Intelligence chairman

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141736108

Schumer: Democrats will filibuster Gorsuch nomination

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141736192

Al Franken: What was Merrick Garland about?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028836324

Woah. Rep Schiff: New evidence of Trump/Russia collusion "would merit a grand jury investigation"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028840444

Thanks to Franken and Klobuchar for helping Dems understand why Gorsuch must be filibustered

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028838216

And, this..

FactCheck.org: Sanders Wrong on Voter Turnout

Sanders Wrong on Voter Turnout

snip//

Sanders, April 16: So many of our people are giving up on the political process. It is very frightening. In the last presidential election, when Trump won, we had the lowest voter turnout over — in 20 years. And in the previous two years before that, in the midterm election, we had the lowest voter turnout in 70 years.

Sen. Bernie Sanders wrongly claimed that voter turnout in 2016 was “the lowest … in 20 years.” In fact, turnout was higher than it was in 2012.

The overall turnout was 60.2 percent in 2016, up from 58.6 percent four years earlier. In addition, the percentage of eligible voters casting ballots for president in 2016 was 59.3 percent — the third highest in the last 44 years. Only 2008 and 2004 were higher.

More..
http://www.factcheck.org/2017/04/sanders-wrong-voter-turnout/

He's divisive and wrong.

[SMC22307]

187. Stop spamming the fucking board. (n/t)

[romanic]

189. Someone has a lot of time on thier hands.

Have a mai-tai and take a break.

[betsuni]

190. Or someone is a passionate Democrat on a forum called Democratic Underground which is for

Democratic party supporters.

[Cha]

191. Mahalo, betsuni.. I was sure that "name removed" didn't know

the difference between "criticism" and "insulting" so I posted his quotes.. yet again.

Too bad if some can't handle seeing them repeated. If they don't like to read them again.. then don't.

[sheshe2]

109. Welcome to DU, SebassSea.

A suggestion, try to be less combative on your third post.

Improve Not Insult

Learn the difference.

No need for that. This place is great for discussions.

[stevenleser]

129. I wonder if that was Librarygirl? nt

[sheshe2]

137. Dunno...

but they sure didn't last long.

[greatauntoftriplets]

194. Not her, just another troll.

[uponit7771]

139. facts are good

[Steven Maurer]

151. I'm glad that you voted for Hillary in the general

Honestly, supporting a candidate that isn't your #1 preference in the primary, is what we need more of in the Democratic party. Because at the end of the day winning matters. And Republicans always do the wrong thing.

Also, politicians remember exactly who got them the position they have. So even if they're not your #1 choice, pushing someone across the finish line usually influences them to do what you want.

If only more Democrats and disaffected leftists had understood this back in November.

[geek tragedy]

17. Sanders has always put women's civil rights at a lower priority

than purely economic issues. He's not anti-choice, but he does not see civil rights as important as economic issues.

Obviously the rank and file of the party disagree with him.

[Cha]

19. Oh I fucking "grasp" him alright .. Why Can't BS "Grasp" this..

WHY couldn't BS, the Director of Outreach, Grasp This. I call that "Uncurious"

Link to tweet

Says he "isn't prepared to back Dems just because of party labels".. but he didn't bother to get to knowJon Ossoff, who is Pro-Choice, and, is running for an important Congressional seat.. Tom Price's in Georgia!

"Jon Ossoff on the issues, presented in a way Bernie Sanders can understand"

snip//

Women’s Heath & Planned Parenthood”

Ossoff is an unapologetic supporter of the concept of women being able to make their own decisions regarding reproductive health care, and Ossoff is a strong supporter of Planned Parenthood.

What a concept for a "progressive"!!!

snip//

National Security”

•Ossoff has promised to “oppose unnecessary military intervention overseas and...only support the use of force where US national security is at stake”
•Ossoff opposes the use of torture
•Ossoff has called for an investigation into "Russian interference in American politics”
•Ossoff referred to the Iraq War as “reckless”

Much More.. https://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/04/19/1654449/-Jon-Ossoff-on-the-issues-presented-in-a-way-Bernie-Sanders-can-understan

Jon Ossoff took the high road in Georgia.. I hope he wins so badly.. Nancy Pelosi was there for him as was Samuel L Jackson.. Hollywood came out for him! Alyssa Milano and Christopher Gorham got the Vote out!

We'll never know if a few positive words instead of dismissal could have made the difference from the "most popular politician in America".

Not sure why BS wouldn't want to have gotten to know Jon Ossoff who would have immediately gone to Congress if he had won 50% and we would have had one more Dem to fight the Fascistrumps.

[shenmue]

23. Go get 'em

[Cha]

26. Hey shenmue!

[spooky3]

24. + a bazillion. Thanks, Cha!

[Cha]

27. You're Welcome, Spooky!

[spooky3]

35. :-)

[NastyRiffraff]

38. The worst thing about his not supporting Ossaff

is that according to him (yes, jury, Sanders said this) he didn't know if Ossaff was a progressive. He changed his tune and FINALLY endorsed him, as usual shifting under criticism.

Think about that. A Democrat running a strong primary campaign hoping to shift a seat in Georgia, and Bernie Sanders didn't bother to find out anything about him.

I fucking "grasp" him too, Cha. As do many of us, all too well.

Cha

[Cha]

64. Oh really?

"He changed his tune and FINALLY endorsed him,.."?

I know he got Criticism! Before or after the election?

Mahalo, Riff!

[NastyRiffraff]

134. After the election, of course

Read it and weep: Sanders Endorses Ossoff but Won't Call Him a Progressive

Cha

[Cha]

188. lol@BS.."Sanders endorses Ossoff, but won't call him a progressive"

But he'll call Heath Mello, who is "aggressively anti-choice" a "progressive".

Wassup, BS! you call Mello a progressive in Nebraska but not Ossoff who is Pro Choice and had Samuel L Jackson making a campaign ad for him. Hollywood got out the VOTE for Jon Ossoff in Georgia.

Still fishy and 3 days too late.

Thanks again, Riff

[still_one]

39. kick & rec!!!

[NurseJackie]

63. That's the only way to describe it.

[uponit7771]

140. +1

[Cryptoad]

20. Give it a fucking rest,,,,,, geeeez

[fleabiscuit]

25. Sure would have been nice to see his tax returns. nt

[Demit]

50. Thats just Bernie acting with integrity, like he always does.

Why are we stubbornly refusing to grasp that!

Like the 501(c)(4) he started last year, the group that can take unlimited donation amounts and not have to disclose the names of donors. Integrity all the way, baby!

[murielm99]

150. Did we ever see his last FEC filing?

Did he submit one?

[flamingdem]

29. I've met Bernie, followed his political career and can say he means what he says

Yes, he's honest. And blunt. Maybe that comes across as something else?

It's a very New York style, he's a leftie and comes from that idealistic mindset - that most of us ADMIRE.

The dems are lucky he is trustworthy and he brings much to the table.

He's who he says he is but for some reason maliciousness is assigned to him. Very incorrect.

[babylonsister]

45. Wow! I'm from NY.

He's not invested in considering what he says, just says what he thinks. That's not going over well, but I think it's authentic. I like it.

[WinkyDink]

30. Bernie can do, say, and align himself as he wishes. But have the guts to do so

as an Independent, if he wants to "join" Democrats only when the Party meets his standards of perfection.

[babylonsister]

49. What? He is an Independent who aligns himself with Dems.

What's wrong with that? I don't think he'd fit in with the only other party because he doesn't agree with them. He belongs somewhere; I like and want him with Dems. He's at least trying to make a difference.

[Cha]

90. Yeah, when he isn't gratuitously Insulting Dems by calling

them "Feeble" and "Can't fight back".. and "the Democratic Party of the Elitist".

He's too Divisive.. always Insulting us.. even his former Press Sec Symone Sanders says..

Symone Sanders: "In retrospect, she said, Maybe Bernie Sanders isnt the guy for the unity tour."

Why Bernie Sanders’s Unity Tour Failed

snip//

The independent senator hit the road with Democratic national chairman Tom Perez—and highlighted everything that's tearing the party apart.

https://newrepublic.com/article/142152/bernie-sanderss-unity-tour-failed

[Chevy]

116. Know who else is an independant?

This guy.

Link to tweet

[ornotna]

52. Nice RW talking points in your removed post below

Well done.

[Cha]

88. Bull.. that's got nothing to do with your Accusation of "RW talking points"

[still_one]

36. Just who is this so-called "Democratic Establishment"? Is it those Democrats who don't walk

lock in step with the Gospel according to Bernie?

The problem wasn't Sanders support for Mello, an anti-choice Democrat over the republican in Nebraska, it was his distancing himself from Ossoff, with the reason that he didn't know what Ossoff's "progressive credentials were", in spite of Georgia's 6th district being in the headlines.

Sanders wants it both ways. He doesn't want to be identified as a Democrat, but at the same time he wants to tell Democrats what they should do.

[Tarheel_Dem]

57. It's the +4 million more of us who chose the other candidate. It's obvious he's still smarting....

from that.

[still_one]

74. you are right

[Cha]

78. Right.. the Problem wasn't BS' support for Mello.. it was

his out of hand Dismissal of Progressive Democrat, Jon Ossoff, on the SAME DAY of the Election in Georgia.

Link to tweet

Says he "isn't prepared to back Dems just because of party labels".. but he didn't bother to get to know Jon Ossoff, who is Pro-Choice, and, is running for an important Congressional seat.. Tom Price's in Georgia!

"Jon Ossoff on the issues, presented in a way Bernie Sanders can understand"

snip//

Women’s Heath & Planned Parenthood”

Ossoff is an unapologetic supporter of the concept of women being able to make their own decisions regarding reproductive health care, and Ossoff is a strong supporter of Planned Parenthood.

What a concept for a "progressive"!!!

snip//

National Security”

•Ossoff has promised to “oppose unnecessary military intervention overseas and...only support the use of force where US national security is at stake”
•Ossoff opposes the use of torture
•Ossoff has called for an investigation into "Russian interference in American politics”
•Ossoff referred to the Iraq War as “reckless”

Much More.. https://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/04/19/1654449/-Jon-Ossoff-on-the-issues-presented-in-a-way-Bernie-Sanders-can-understan

Jon Ossoff took the high road in Georgia.. I hope he wins so badly.. Nancy Pelosi was there for him as was Samuel L Jackson.. Hollywood came out for him! Alyssa Milano and Christopher Gorham got the Vote out!

We'll never know if a few positive words instead of dismissal could have made the difference from the "most popular politician in America".

Not sure why BS wouldn't want to have gotten to know Jon Ossoff who would have immediately gone to Congress if he had won 50% and we would have had one more Dem to fight the Fascistrumps.

Mahalo, still_one

[still_one]

79. Thanks Cha

[intheflow]

165. I'd say you've got it backwards.

It's the Democrats who shun and shame anyone on the left who doesn't walk in lock-step with the Gospel According to the DNC.

[ProfessorPlum]

40. thank you for posting this

[babylonsister]

46. It took courage.

I knew it would blow up, but felt that another perspective from an outsider was not a bad idea.

[ProfessorPlum]

54. it was also interesting that it wasn't really the "Washington Post" with that

original story about how "curious" Sanders was. It was just one guy, and one guy's opinion.

This article is a nice complement to it.

[Ghost Dog]

44. This subject should in no way be dismissed as irrelevant at DU.

Thanks for the thread, babylonsister.

[SCVDem]

56. Let's not get distracted.

WE lost due in large part to the Russian professionals

Dump and his band of idiots and hate-filled assholes never could pull off this win without the assistance of pros.

It's hard but we need to get over the past and focus on eliminating radical republican influence on our lives.

Ga-06 A New Beginning!

[mountain grammy]

58. K & R and thank you for this post

I've usually avoid these threads. The hate for Bernie Sanders I see here is depressing. I thought only right wingers hated us that much. Like I said, depressing. Like everything these days. Just damn depressing. There is so little hope anymore.

[babylonsister]

60. There's hope. Watch the protests this weekend

and maybe some chats with major players next week. I refuse to accept this; you should, too.

As for your thanks, thank you!!

[JudyM]

75. He is helping us, he doesn't have to march in lockstep. If he helps on balance, and he does far

more than that, it is good for us. I enjoyed reading this post, thanks.

[killbotfactory]

146. Bernie is one of the most liked politicians in the country

So of course he needs to be smeared on Democratic forums 24/7. He stubbornly refuses to kiss the ring of corporate power, hence the Bernie derangement syndrome.

[YOHABLO]

59. And who is saying that Sanders won't come around before the runoff and support him?

[babylonsister]

61. He does, seems like.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/democrats-vs-trump/bernie-sanders-clarifies-support-jon-ossoff-after-dustup-n749491


Bernie Sanders Clarifies Support for Jon Ossoff After Dustup

It sure sounds like he hadn't met him so was unwilling to say much.

[democrank]

71. Thanks for posting this, babylonsister.

One of the most chilling aspects of the anti-Sanders effort is the loud chorus of voices that absolutely will not tolerate a single word spoken against " the establishment" ....their establishment. The idea that we must all march in unison without even a hint of being out of step is really troubling.

I well remember how DUers detested that kind of attitude when George W. Bush was president. Post after post after post was written about how Republicans insist party members march lockstep and how wrong that was. Now, in order to be considered a "real" Democrat, one must march correctly....as directed....or else. Orders come from top-down and must be obeyed by "so-called democrats" who happen to prefer bottom-up. And, the idea that a Democrat might agree with an Independent, is proof enough to have your loyalty questioned. Apparently, in order to stay in line, Democrats must never listen to Bernie Sanders or any other awful Independent like maybe Angus King of Maine. Real Democrats must disparage all Republicans, Independents and any boat-rocking leftists.

One of the most interesting aspects of the anti-Bernie efforts here are some new, low post count members who reply exclusively to posts about Sanders. They don't reply to posts about party platform issues, to DUers going through difficulties, or even to posts about important news events. They reply only to threads about Sanders. And even though they have less than 200 replies over a period of 1-2 weeks, they question the party loyalty of some DUers with tens of thousands of posts. Odd, isn't it?

[stevenleser]

85. That's because "the establishment" is a meaningless bogeyman. It's a campaign slogan, nothing more

Anyone and any article that talks about it is nonserious.

[LiberalLovinLug]

157. Disingenuous to say the establishment is a meaningless bogeyman.

Although of course it is open to interpretation depending on who is saying it.
If you insist on playing dumb though, "the establishment" means to many on the left at least, those that have established themselves as the veteran leadership who steer the overall direction of the party from their privileged positions. Many of which are those with strong ties to corporate America. And the now dissolved (into the Clinton Foundation) Democratic Leadership Council was the epitome of the "new" Democrat with the philosophy of the "third way": the chairs of which were mostly made up of corporate CEOs and embraced the idea of corporate influence and donations while reducing the importance of grass roots support.

From Bill Clinton on, they solidified themselves into leadership positions and became the establishment of the Democratic party over the last couple of decades. Whether the DLC still exists as an entity or not, their power and influence is still on display with their insistence on the Democratic party endorsing the more conservative D candidates in ridings where there is a more progressive option. The result of their work over the last decade is monumental losses for the Democratic party from big to small races across the country, helped alongside by their partnership in the DNC for years with DWS who was all on board with the third way philosophy.

It does finally seem like they are realizing they actually cannot win with this strategy anymore by embracing people like Sanders and others and actually listen to criticism and learn from their mistakes, even if some in here can't take criticism of their party and want to bury their head in the sand.....(and keep losing)

[mdbl]

180. So true.

I quit donating to the DLC and the DCCC about 15 years ago when I saw how the organizations were evolving. I don't completely blame the leadership. When the rank and file don't take enough interest in their own politics, the so-called leaders will take it upon themselves to govern as they see fit, not necessarily how we would like them to. I live in a state where all the dixiecrats were completely brainwashed by Mush Limpballs - making these idiots think they really knew something, when all along he played them for fools. Fux news and a rabble of other right wing dork radio shows have continued this grand tradition. With so much misinformation, what else was the DNC to do? No one was listening to the facts. We have to take back our party on the local level. It's going to be a lot of work, plain and simple. If we're not willing to do it, the corporations will continue to do it for us - in the manner they see fit.

[LiberalLovinLug]

183. Interesting perspective, thanks

We have to make the party something bold and innovative, not afraid to push for a $15 min. wage, or free tuition, or maternity leave, or even....gasp....single payer healthcare. The problem has been too many times this turd way approach where top Dems perpetually capitulated on important issues in order to seek a "third way". Which was always turned into the Republican way or nothing once they figured out Dems weak strategy.

If young people actually had something to vote for, bold initiatives that are noticeably different than Republicans, we could win big. The "moderate" traditional Republican voter is NOT going to switch over in any significant numbers. They are conditioned now to never vote Democrat no matter who is the Republican choice. So why does the establishment of the Democratic party insist on trusting Rs holding the football ie. Charlie Brown, again and again? Focus on new voters.

[stevenleser]

193. It's not disengenuous, it's spot on. Sorry if you were fooled but that's not my fault.

There are no unique policies or viewpoints that Bernie had that weren't held by several folks within the Democratic Party.

The "anti-establishment" mantra was a schtick he employed that took in those who couldn't see through it.

[LiberalLovinLug]

195. "several folks" is not the established leadership

If you want to believe that its is I and those that see what I see that are fooled into thinking that there was a shift with Bill Clinton rightwards and that there is such a thing as the "third way" and "triangulation". Or that I am fooled into thinking that the DLC , made up of CEOs and high ranking Democrats, established Democrats, had an influence on the direction of the party......then guilty as charged.

[mythology]

93. One could say similar things about some people not being able to handle a word spoken against

Sanders. Neither side is convincing the other because they are too busy talking past each other rather than to each other.

It's really kind of tiresome.

[Demit]

100. Quite a straw man you've constructed there.

Unity is not the same as "in unison." No one is demanding that Bernie Sanders march in unison with the Democrats. But a little unity would be nice, on a Unity Tour.

Interesting that you bring up top-down versus bottom-up. That's exactly what led to eight young leaders resigning from Bernie's 501(c)(4), Our Revolution, when Bernie brought in his old campaign manager Jeff Weaver to run it. Their objection was that Weaver was a top-down kind of manager (whose philosophy was soliciting donations from big money donors and putting the $ into tv ads, as opposed to organizing efforts) and Bernie's movement was supposed to be bottom-up.

[LexVegas]

72. ...

[betsuni]

77. The author of the article isn't listening.

I guess it's easier to throw names at people than to listen. And what does this sentence mean: "The establishment understanding Aaron Blake's piece represents is the real problem." I'm beginning to wonder if this "establishment" thing is supposed to cause us to yell "Yeah, don't tell me what to do!" whenever we hear the word. Like teenagers.

[Cha]

80. The way they use that fucking buzzword "establishment" pisses me Off.. They

called John Lewis "establishment" and Planned Parenthood
"Establishment"... so as far as I'm concerned.. That's a good word.. and those who try to insult with the E word are the ones who need to learn a few things.

Such divisive Bullshit.

[betsuni]

82. Yup.

[stevenleser]

86. "The Establishment" is a meaningless slogan for folks who want to seem cool and edgy.

If your policies really are that great, you don't need a fake bogeyman to rail against and beat up.

[betsuni]

89. +1

[Cha]

92. John Lewis and Planned Parenhood were deemed "establishment"

by that tired and ridiculous buzzword.

And, I see they're stuck in that rut... they dug for themselves.

[stevenleser]

96. Planned Parenthood will do more for the people of this country in one day

Than all of the people railing against "The Establishment" bogeyman will do in their lifetimes.

[Cha]

108. Exactly, Steven! Thank you!

[aikoaiko]

97. I think the term had meaning to lots of people.

[stevenleser]

99. It's as meaningless as the "cool kids" in high school trying to start a fashion trend

And that fashion trend may seem meaningful to some people too.

But it isn't.

[progressoid]

125. 39 percent and rising isn't meaningless.

Nearly four-in-ten Americans (39%) identify as independents, 32% as Democrats and 23% as Republicans, based on aggregated data from 2014. The share of self-described independents has risen nine points over the past decade, up from 30% in 2004. Over this period, the percentage of Republicans has fallen six points – from 29% to 23% – while the share of Democrats is little changed.

http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/07/party-identification-trends-1992-2014/#total

[stevenleser]

127. Using a logical fallacy like argumentum ad populum doesn't help you.

The cool kids in high school were popular too, regardless of the fact that their "coolness" was predicated on completely superficial issues.

[progressoid]

145. It's just statistics.

Regardless of your dismissal of them as just cool kids trying to be trendy, 39% of voters choose not to identify with "The Establishment". Mocking them ain't gonna win any votes.

[moriah]

152. And the fact many of them left the Republican party doesn't jump...

... out at you in your statistics?

Pandering to the "anti-Establishment" demographic isn't likely to encourage progressive values per the very statistics you cite.

[progressoid]

158. No one is saying we should pander to ALL the indy voters

Progressive values notwithstanding, they are a wide and important demographic. They essentially decided the election in PA, Mi, % WI.

[moriah]

173. Thus I feel it's best to focus on progressive issues...

.... than to try to play "I'm less establishment than you". It distracts from the actual issues.

I'm rather determined on this subject because I have a friend who is a Libertarian. And a brother and sister who identify as Libertarian. The anti-"Establishment" holier-than-thou BS from them has made me lose my lunch so many times it's not funny.

They don't lean Republican, either, they lean toward an egotistical apathy. It's like they are ready to fiddle while it all burns down because Hillary was "so corrupt and Establishment", and even though they said they supported Bernie on the Democratic side this year, none of the three went to the polls and voted in the primaries. And in the General they voted for Johnson. But most of Johnson's "supporters" in the polls that didn't actually vote for him voted for Trump.

I also know several who voted for Stein, because again, Hillary was too "Establishment".

I am sorry if I seemed like I was jumping your crap. I'm just... irked... with what I've seen from most people I know who claim to be "Independents". I don't want to pander to their special snowflake egotism. Instead, I want us to make policy that promotes progressive values and if they are actually more interested in issues than being able to claim to be "above it all", the progressives among them will vote for us.

[aikoaiko]

130. So, you're using a pejorative to argue against the use of what you consider a pejorative.

That's not persuasive.

[stevenleser]

131. Nope, not a pejorative, an analogy or a metaphor. nt

[mvd]

91. K&R

You completely get it IMO.

And I don't see the Nebraska mayoral race candidate he campaigned for as a big deal. He has campaigned for candidates with a variety of stances he doesn't like. I personally think being pro choice is as important as being left on economic issues. It's an important right and has economic implications.

[sheshe2]

94. So

In fact, Blake’s piece could be seen to illustrate why Bernie remains an independent: he is not willing to endorse every candidate or idea that the establishment holds up, no matter how much they try to bully him.

So. So he stands by an anti-choice candidate. Which is in fact is an anti-woman stance...by your statement above women's equality is just an establishment idea/ ideal? Women are not important then.

(the Establishment)

a group in a society exercising power and influence over matters of policy or taste, and seen as resisting change.

We are not the ones that are resisting change we are the ones begging for change. Establishment my ass, Dems are fighting for us every day, sad that they in charge are labeled establishment as an insult.

[Cha]

101. Haha! LOL @ "Wah.. no matter how much they try to bully him".. ROFL

Always the victims these guys..

They blew their whatever on that "establishment" crap, she..

They deemed John Lewis and Planned Parenthood "establisment".. along with every other brilliant leader.

When I see them use that tired ol insulting buzzword I know they're talking about somebody who's brilliant!

[sheshe2]

103. Thank you Cha.

If that is being part of the dreaded "establishment" then sign me on! I am in good, very good company!

[Cha]

104. Exactly, she! "Establishement equals Good Company!

[ucrdem]

111. Bernie's not hard to grasp. He's been playing the same tune since 1994.

It's a catchy jingle and he sings it well. If leadership Dems think it helps anything, fine, let him warble away. Personally I think it doesn't.

[markpkessinger]

114. Thank you for this, Babylonsister!

That piece in the Post was truly execrable. I posted a couple of comments to it, which I'll share here. First:

Fine. So Kick Bernie and his supporters to the curb. Hell, hire Debbie back. And just continue doing what we have been doing. Because that has worked out SO well for us!

Look, whatever may be said of Putin's meddling, or of Wikileaks, or of Comey's despicable actions, at the end of the day, nobody had a gun to their head forcing them to vote for Trump, nor was anybody who stayed home from the polls kidnapped to prevent them from voting. When a candidate fails to make the sale, or fails to make it compelling enough for people to want to turn out in droves in order to vote for that candidate, the ownership for that failure belongs to the candidate himself/herself. Those emails and speeches of Hillary's that Wikileaks leaked wouldn't have had the power to do the damage they did to Hillary if their content hadn't been as damning as it was. And the responsibility for that content rests with those who wrote the emails and gave the speeches, not those who leaked them. Fair or not, there was a widespread suspicion of Hillary that she is often duplicitous, and those emails and speeches, when considered next to what she was saying on the campaign trail, hardly did anything to dispel that perception.

There is one overriding reality that I think many Democrats simply have not faced: that neither party can win national elections by appealing only to their most loyal base. A candidate of either major party must draw support from a significant chunk of independent, unaffiliated voters in order to win. That is what Bernie has been tasked with doing -- finding a way to reach these folks. And whether you agree with his approach or not, at least he is out there on the front lines trying to do something -- which is more than I can say for a lot of establishment Democrats!

And also this:

What "isn't helping Democrats to come together" is the refusal of the DLC/Third Way/"New Democrat" types. who have led the party for nearly four decades, to finally recognize that they have led the party on a ruinous path. You had your chance, and you screwed it up big time. Now kindly step out of the way so that people with new, fresh ideas can bring what they have to offer to the table.

[JTFrog]

119. He's lost all credibility when it comes to a "progressive agenda".

All he has done is bash and trash the party as a failure for not having a more progressive agenda, then he goes and throws women under the bus over what he calls "one issue".

FUCK. THAT. NOISE.

Who the fuck does he think he is? THIS is exactly the reason our party remains divided. I wish he would just shut up and get out of the spotlight.

[grossproffit]

121. +1 Your last sentence says it all.

[betsuni]

123. Yes.

"Who the fuck does he think he is?" I know. Who does he think he is. He doesn't know what political correctness is. Didn't know that Detroit and Flint, Michigan were once one of the wealthiest cities in the U.S. Gets things wrong all the time. Why should I listen to someone who doesn't seem to know what's going on?

[Tarheel_Dem]

124. Exactly. There's new blood, and I'm hoping that if BS doesn't give up the spotlight willingly.....

they'll just take it from him. I'm really digging Adam Schiff. He's more like Obama. Cool headed, articulate, & doesn't need to pop a vein to get his point across. Of course he doesn't provide much in the way of theater like DT & BS, so he's not likely to build a following, and that's a damn shame. I prefer people who actually work their asses off, and don't feel the need to mug for every camera within spitting distance. Eric Swalwell(D-CA), also seems to be an up & comer. And if Jon Osoff manages to pull it off in the GA-6, I think he'll be a force for us as well.

[stevenleser]

128. He really needs to go away. nt

[R B Garr]

141. +1000, Thank you

!

[uponit7771]

142. +1

[Martin Eden]

126. I will support a politician to the extent he or she champions good policies ...

... and demonstrates the kind of character and leadership necessary for achieving real progress.

In the 2016 presidential Democratic primary, in my view, Bernie Sanders met that criteria better than the other candidates.

I see no value in demonizing the other candidates and their supporters.

There is, however, value in honest civil discussions to bridge the divide and identify common goals behind which all of us can rally.

Divided we fall.

[beastie boy]

132. That's the lamest excuse I've ever heard! Even from Bernie.

"...he didn’t endorse Ossoff, because he doesn’t know much about him."

Is Bernie serious??? Why didn't he learn enough about Ossoff? Was Bernie unaware that Ossoff was this close to taking a house seat from the Republicans? If this is the case, Bernie has made a decision to remain willfully ignorant in dereliction of his duties as the DNC outreach head. And if he was aware of this, it was enough to endorse Ossoff.

Pathetic!

[uponit7771]

143. +1

[The Wizard]

133. The Party establishment

takes the approach that the base has no where else to go, which may be true. But the base also has a place to stay, and that's home on election day. The corporate suck ups are the bane of the Democratic Party. Their primary concern is how much they can get in bribes from the corporate elites.

[R B Garr]

138. lol, skimming the headline, I read this as, "The UNICORNS continuing, stubborn refusal....."

Which actually made sense, though... My eyes are going, lol!

[LakeArenal]

144. Wish it was unicorns

Then we'd have something better to discuss this same ole "stuff".

[FairWinds]

153. But why restrict this discussion to Sanders . . ?

Third Way Dems have REGULARLY turned their backs on

progressive candidates, and as in the case of DWS, they

have backed GOP candidates.

Where does the "establishment" (term used advisedly) get off

having a hissy-fit when Bernie or some progressive does what

they themselves do all the time?

[beastie boy]

159. Are you talking about progressive candidates running against Republicans in national elections?

If you can cite enough cases to show the "Third Way" Democrats doing this on a regular basis (or even not so regular basis), I would say they are just as guilty as Bernie. But that wouldn't make Bernie any less guilty, would it?

[FairWinds]

166. I'd rather just get out there and organize . .

as best I can.

Rather than judging others.

I'm doing BLM, Indivisible Ohio (vs. Kasich), Vets For Peace, and more

Who really cares about "guilt" as assigned by anonymous posters?

Beastie I've noticed you spend considerable time going after other Dems - I
hope you go after Repugs as well.

And as for Bernie, he's got about fifty years as a progressive . .
what have you got?

[beastie boy]

172. I sincerely applaud your activism, even if I may or may not disagree with your positions

But we are not talking about you. Nor are we talking about me or my record, although I am not sure what you mean by me going after Democrats. I go after issues. And in this particular case, the issue is specifically Bernie's stance (I couldn't care less about Bernie personally) within the Democratic party. It appears he deems some Democrats more equal than others, and his justification in assuming this stance is, at least in one case that I am talking about, completely ridiculous.

My challenge to you was to come up with examples of "Third Way" Democrats whose stance can contextually match that of Brnie's vis a vis Ossoff. Instead, you have decided to make it about you and me, and I am not going there.

...Ok, to indulge you just this once: What have I got? How about being an Independent since before it became fashionable (to be precise, since 1980) and being consistently to the left of the Democratic Party platform? Sounds familiar?

[Lil Missy]

156. Most you refer to DO grasp Bernie. Thus, is the reason they don't like him. n/t

[lewebley3]

170. Everyone understands Sanders ego: and that he help Trump into power

[pecosbob]

177. Democratic Party damn well needs to be insulted again and again

until it gets the message. The Democratic Party should not be about enabling corporate predators. It should be one hundred percent behind removing all money from the political process. The next Democratic administration should not be just a nicer, friendlier New World Order. It should be about the halting of extra-judicial killings. It should not be about bombing some other country when your presidential popularity drops. It should not be about new trade agreements that allow corporations to disregard trade regulations, wage standards and environmental laws in other countries. It should not be about forcing our ideas and system of government on the rest of the world. It should be about re-establishing Glass-Steagall and cementing it in concrete. It should not be about toppling another country's government so that Exxon can get access to energy resourses. It should be about halting the energy industry from covering this land with fracking wells and oil tar pipelines. It should be about stopping the wholesale privatization of our educational system and other infrastructure.

So my question is are you going to continue squabbling about how one particular senator (who isn't even in the Democratic Party) doesn't agree with your vision of what the Demcratic Party should be? Do you find yourself in agreement with Claire McCaskill or Joe Manchin much? Me either, but they're both Blue Dog Democrats.

Did I vote for HRC? Yes I did. Did I vote for her in the primary? No I did not. Will I vote for either of them next time around? No. I will be voting for Elizabeth Warren. I am a progressive by nature...I am a Democrat only when the Democratic Party pulls it's head out it's ass for more than ten minutes.

[MadDAsHell]

179. The 2 presidential wins only cost us the Senate, House, and states.

By all means let's keep following the establishment off this cliff.

[onetexan]

181. i'd like to know why the heck the DNC allowed Sanders to run as a Democrat

when now even after having ran on the Dems ticket he still has the nerve to say he's not a Democrat. This past Thursday i went to the "Come Together Fight Back" tour (not sure if this is the same one called Unity tour) here in the DFW area. I've never been a Bernie fan but i like some of what he preaches. At the rally i actually enjoyed the local and state Democratic leaders' speeches more, as well as that of the energetic, animated Michael Blake, one of the DNC's vice chairs. Bernie spoke last and got the most applause. However, it was nothing new - again he ranted and raved about the 1% and free college, free healthcare, blah blah...alot of pie in the sky stuff many of the young people long on idealism but short on real life experience buy into. Good thing his speech didn't last too long, as i began to get bored. On the way out, a young man handed me a small yellow handout advertising the group Bernie's younger followers put together called "Our Revolution". If you go to their site https://ourrevolution.com/ notice there's no mention of the Democratic party anywhere. What the heck are they doing here?
I get the feeling Bernie is trying to divide the party and i don't like it. The more i hear him say he's not a Democrat the more it irks me. Either you're with us or you're against us. He should have started his own independent party and ran under that ticket. He should not have been allowed to run as a Democrat.

[countryjake]

182. Thanks for this, babylonsister!

I've read Miller's piece, but after browsing just a little way down on the responses, I won't waste my time going any further in this thread.

Great article!

[fleabiscuit]

184. Or, gasp, you're just wrong about that and we do grasp sanders. nt